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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: timberati on July 17, 2013, 07:17:43 PM

Title: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: timberati on July 17, 2013, 07:17:43 PM
My son loves Belgian Dubbels :o (They're not my thing but I try to be an indulgent dad) and I love using dry yeast. Dry yeast is incredibly simple. I went through some of the previous posts and it looks like T-58 might be better than S-33 for fermenting a Belgian. I'm figuring with the hot weather, it's a good time for brewing this type of beer.

T-58 or S-33? Or am I out of luck for a dry yeast?
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Vin S on July 17, 2013, 07:37:14 PM
You can try the Belle Saison yeast. If you go back in this category you can read about it.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: timberati on July 17, 2013, 07:39:44 PM
Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 17, 2013, 07:42:18 PM
T-58 would definitely be better than S-33.  IMO, there's nothing vaguely Belgian about the flavor profile of S-33.  Yeah, you;re right, dry yeast is easy, but in this case there isn't a dry yeast I know of that will make a really great dubbel.  IMO, this is a case where you really need a liquid yeast, unless ease of use trumps flavor.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: In The Sand on July 17, 2013, 07:44:23 PM
T-58 would definitely be better than S-33.  IMO, there's nothing vaguely Belgian about the flavor profile of S-33.  Yeah, you;re right, dry yeast is easy, but in this case there isn't a dry yeast I know of that will make a really great dubbel.  IMO, this is a case where you really need a liquid yeast, unless ease of use trumps flavor.

Are you going to hit 10,000 today???
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 17, 2013, 07:46:06 PM
T-58 would definitely be better than S-33.  IMO, there's nothing vaguely Belgian about the flavor profile of S-33.  Yeah, you;re right, dry yeast is easy, but in this case there isn't a dry yeast I know of that will make a really great dubbel.  IMO, this is a case where you really need a liquid yeast, unless ease of use trumps flavor.

Are you going to hit 10,000 today???

Geez, hadn't noticed that.  Maybe so if I keep posting worthless tripe like this!

Is there a prize?  ;)
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 17, 2013, 07:50:08 PM
Thanks  :D
You can use the dry Saison, but IMO you won't have a Dubbel, more a dark saison.  Belle Dry Saison is known to ferment down often from 1.006 - near 1.000 FG.  Not to mention a different flavor profile.  A Dubbel often finishes more like 1.016 - 1.008 FG, leaving a little more malt richness intact.  Personally, I would use WY3787, 1214 or similar, and you'll have a more accurate end result.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 17, 2013, 08:35:33 PM
Personally, I would use WY3787, 1214 or similar, and you'll have a more accurate end result.

Agreed.  I prefer 3787 for dubbel and tripel.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 17, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
Personally, I would use WY3787, 1214 or similar, and you'll have a more accurate end result.

Agreed.  I prefer 3787 for dubbel and tripel.

I like 1214 for a dubbel.  Not sure I've ever done 3787 in a dubbel, but it does make a nice tripel.

To be honest, I've not used a Belgian yeast that I have disliked.  Some I like more than others, but none I do not like.

Mangrove Jack makes a dry Belgian, but it sounds more like a saison yeast from the description.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: In The Sand on July 17, 2013, 09:09:23 PM
T-58 would definitely be better than S-33.  IMO, there's nothing vaguely Belgian about the flavor profile of S-33.  Yeah, you;re right, dry yeast is easy, but in this case there isn't a dry yeast I know of that will make a really great dubbel.  IMO, this is a case where you really need a liquid yeast, unless ease of use trumps flavor.

Are you going to hit 10,000 today???
Is there a prize?  ;)

You get 10,000 bonus posts for no additional charge!  8)
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 17, 2013, 09:59:21 PM
Personally, I would use WY3787, 1214 or similar, and you'll have a more accurate end result.

Agreed.  I prefer 3787 for dubbel and tripel.

I like 1214 for a dubbel.  Not sure I've ever done 3787 in a dubbel, but it does make a nice tripel.

To be honest, I've not used a Belgian yeast that I have disliked.  Some I like more than others, but none I do not like.

Mangrove Jack makes a dry Belgian, but it sounds more like a saison yeast from the description.
I agree, love the Belgian strains. There's so many strain/temp combinations that I really enjoy brewing them. They tend to blend together really well too.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: timberati on July 18, 2013, 01:48:55 AM
Thanks all. This helps me. And, Denny, congratulations on 10,000 posts.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Jimmy K on July 18, 2013, 02:26:06 AM
T-58 would definitely be better than S-33.  IMO, there's nothing vaguely Belgian about the flavor profile of S-33.  Yeah, you;re right, dry yeast is easy, but in this case there isn't a dry yeast I know of that will make a really great dubbel.  IMO, this is a case where you really need a liquid yeast, unless ease of use trumps flavor.

Are you going to hit 10,000 today???

Geez, hadn't noticed that.  Maybe so if I keep posting worthless tripe like this!

Is there a prize?  ;)
I think your forum title should change to "Founding Member of the AHA Forum Support Group".
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: majorvices on July 18, 2013, 02:33:39 AM
Have to thrown hat in the ring: you can't really make a dubbel with a saison strain and expect it to taste like a dubbel. I'm sure it will taste great, but saison strains are way more spicy than regular Trappist style Belgian strains and the flavor just won't be the same.

Have to agree with Denny, too, if you really want to make a great dubble, stick with liquid yeast. If ease of use trumps great flavor, go with the dry Belgian strains. But your gonna be a little disappointed.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: majorvices on July 18, 2013, 02:45:13 AM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: redbeerman on July 18, 2013, 11:49:45 AM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.

This has been my experience as well.  I have also had issues with WLP500 with this phenolic taste when fermented in the low 60s.  It does fade with age somewhat though.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: timberati on July 18, 2013, 01:20:03 PM
I have decided to split the batch and try at least two yeasts. Half the fun of making beer is experimentation.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 18, 2013, 02:52:28 PM
I have decided to split the batch and try at least two yeasts. Half the fun of making beer is experimentation.

This is the way to go.  I have done this many times.  I think you'll be surprised by the differences.  I always am.

IMO this is the best way to determine your own personal favorite yeasts for a style.

As far as the dry yeasts, the only one I've tried is T-58 in a small Sorachi Ace saison.  It's OK, not awesome.  I'm not sure how much of that is the yeast and how much the hops as it's my first time using each.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: majorvices on July 18, 2013, 03:12:00 PM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.

This has been my experience as well.  I have also had issues with WLP500 with this phenolic taste when fermented in the low 60s.  It does fade with age somewhat though.

Interesting. I seem to have the other problem with that strain. Too much bubble gum.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 18, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.

And that's fine for certain styles.  But IMO not for dubbel or tripel.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: timberati on July 18, 2013, 03:52:55 PM
Quote
The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgeable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Truth.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: redbeerman on July 18, 2013, 04:29:45 PM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.

This has been my experience as well.  I have also had issues with WLP500 with this phenolic taste when fermented in the low 60s.  It does fade with age somewhat though.

Interesting. I seem to have the other problem with that strain. Too much bubble gum.

I get bubblegum at higher temps.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 18, 2013, 04:32:32 PM
Just to add, the dry Belgian yeasts always taste so phenolic. All band aid no fruit not awful, but not great. that's my experience anyway.

This has been my experience as well.  I have also had issues with WLP500 with this phenolic taste when fermented in the low 60s.  It does fade with age somewhat though.

Interesting. I seem to have the other problem with that strain. Too much bubble gum.

I get bubblegum at higher temps.

I've gotten banana at higher temps.  But that's with 1214, not WLP500.  Supposed to be the same strain, IIRC.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 18, 2013, 04:50:52 PM
Yeah, well I get BOTH banana and bubblegum at higher temps with 1214!
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: majorvices on July 18, 2013, 04:57:06 PM
I pitch at 64 and never go higher than 68.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 18, 2013, 05:17:49 PM
I have a dubbel with 1214 finishing right now.  Pitched in low 60s, let it go up to 68 and held for three days before taking it out and turning it loose.  It's at 72 right now, which is as high as it went.

I'm going to pull a sample tonight to see if it's finished.  I'm expecting banana, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 18, 2013, 11:34:22 PM
No banana.  Spices and maybe a bit of bubblegum in the finish.  Quite nice, but not yet finished at 1.020 I think.  We'll see in a week or so if it drops any.

My tripel, with Unibroue yeast, is only down to 1.030 but tastes awesome.  I WAY overshot my OG so I need to check the settings in Beersmith.  Something went wrong in the calculations.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: klickitat jim on July 19, 2013, 12:47:03 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: denny on July 19, 2013, 12:47:56 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

Sure....I don't know wtf you'd get, but you could do it!
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: jeffy on July 19, 2013, 01:41:36 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

Sure....I don't know wtf you'd get, but you could do it!
OK that's 10000, Denny.  Please rest for a while.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: erockrph on July 19, 2013, 01:58:40 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

I think I'd dry gum it. Preferably unchewed at that stage of the brewing process :P
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 19, 2013, 01:59:54 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

I think I'd dry gum it. Preferably unchewed at that stage of the brewing process :P

But it needs to be chewed to release the flavanoids.
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: erockrph on July 19, 2013, 02:18:00 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

I think I'd dry gum it. Preferably unchewed at that stage of the brewing process :P

But it needs to be chewed to release the flavanoids.

Ahhh... sort of like chicha meets dubble bubble
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: klickitat jim on July 19, 2013, 04:08:13 AM
Well, I pushed Denny to 10k and learned something. What a day!
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 19, 2013, 11:59:47 AM
Can you use US05 and then just add bazooka joe and bananas to the boil?

I think I'd dry gum it. Preferably unchewed at that stage of the brewing process :P
+1 to dry gumming, assuming that was ever a good idea. 
Title: Re: Dry Yeast for a Belgian Dubbel
Post by: Jimmy K on July 22, 2013, 06:18:36 PM
I don't plan to dry gum anything for at least 50 more years.