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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: phillamb168 on July 22, 2013, 10:12:35 AM

Title: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 22, 2013, 10:12:35 AM
Since we've moved to our new place I have been crazy busy, and of course have not had any time to brew due to the fact that everything is all higgeldypiggledy in the new brewing/woodworking shop. One more thing that adds to the lack-of-time is that we're planning a complete kitchen revamp.

So I'm wondering, have any of you guys remodelled your kitchen? We've bought the Norm Abram Kitchen Re-Do DVDs from New Yankee Workshop, and I'm pretty confident we'll be fine in the construction part, but do you have any thoughts on layouts? Things that you really like, or really hate, about your kitchen? Anything brewing-related that you've done?

I'd love to see pics, too, if you care to post them.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: guido on July 22, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
We remodeled our kitchen last summer.  It took my wife 10 years to have it done because she was afraid that she was going to make a bad choice.  You should be able to see CG images of what the finished product will look like.  One thing we did do is to have separate a "hers" and "his" kitchen sink (I use mine for brewing, of course) to preserve domestic tranquility.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 22, 2013, 02:16:33 PM
I remodeled my kitchen about two years ago. We had been wanting to do it for about 10 years. I did everything except the cabinets and countertop. There is very little I dislike about our kitchen

The island is two bookcases (one with doors), one deep cabinet and one drawer cabinet. They were put together and the toe kick is back about 9" with feet on the corners which makes it look like a piece of furniture.

I removed the double door pantry and we put in a prep sink and moved the dishwasher to that side. I wanted double ovens, but could not make that work so I put in a convection microwave and upgraded to a 36" 6 burner dual fuel stove. When I ripped out the pantry I bumped out the wall so the fridge could recess as viewed from the family room. One of these days we will get a stainless fridge.

The flooring is hickory. I love it, but might opt for something water could not hurt if I did it again. Since we have upgraded we had the freezer defrost and have a few boards which slightly cupped and I broke a bottle of wine. Neither has caused damage, but a flooring surface which can take impact and water would be ideal.

Oh, the island cabinet is maple with an antiqued black finish and the granite is peacock green (although it appears more black). The other cabinets are parawood (rubber tree) which looks awful until it is stained and they stained it at the cabinet company. The granite on the perimeter is most likely santa cecila. Pulls other than standard will cost you a buttload. Nice thing is you only cry once. The pulls on the island are a basket weave black "football", the ones on perimiter cabinets are a solid "football" with a pewter finish, or else they are made of pewter, I forget.

If I had not done the lion's share of the work myself it would have doubled the cost and the cost was not exactly cheap. My undercabinet and uplighting is dimmable LED from Inspired LED. You really don't want to know how much that cost to have the ability to dim the lights!

Some of the nicest features are things you do not notice. Pot filler off the sink (useless, but fun), inverted sink base for the main sink (drawer at the bottom), spice rack to the left of the sink, pull out trash to the left of the stove. In the base cabinets I had them put the lower shelf as a pull out and in two of them I had them cut back the upper shelf so I could put tall items like a blender or mixer at the front of the pull out. On the fridge size the cabinets go to the ceiling which is awesome for storing things you don't routinely use. To the left of the fridge and right of the prep sink is a pantry cabinet and I had all the shelves put in as pull out. The microwave is to the right of the fridge and to the right of that is an angled cabinet where I wired an outlet into so we can charge cell phones. The island required an outlet by US code and I put in a plugmold strip on the top interior of the bookcase end. That way I did not have to mess up any of my exterior faces on the island. I wanted to do all my outlets as plugmold, but it was far too expensive.

The fridge in the before photos is in almost the exact same spot as it is in the after. I also changed out the window above the main sink and put in a larger window. I set it at a height so the countertop is the window sill.

Before
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/263914_238912562803491_3116530_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/263569_238912586136822_736889_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/267794_238914609469953_1121580_n.jpg)

New Layout (from cabinet company)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/271134_240702932624454_6975680_n.jpg)

After (does not have travertine tile backsplash installed in photos and undercabinet wiring was incomplete)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/260364_238913159470098_5166731_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/268332_240600249301389_8190953_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/260549_240600255968055_323406_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/263471_240600329301381_3044097_n.jpg)
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/263749_240600362634711_6168288_n.jpg)

Only good shot I could locate of the fridge wall was a construction photo
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/260199_238914366136644_3131874_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 22, 2013, 02:43:09 PM
Pretty much everything Mike says is spot on.  We have wood flooring in our kitchen, too, and although it looks nice it's sort of a pain and requires a bit more care.  We also did peacock green counters. My wife loves the green/black color.

Think about your electric needs.  Enough outlets is important.  Switches should be conveniently located and accessible (I put one in an out of the way spot and it will piss me off forever).  I also wired in a spot for a kitchen computer.  It's great for recipes, looking stuff up, etc.  Essential, as far as I'm concerned.

You can never have enough counter space.  More than layout (the triangle, or whatever) I think ample counter space is what makes the kitchen usable.

Lighting.  Under counter lights are a must.  Uplighting if you want it.

A second row of cabinets like Mike did that go to the ceiling is great for storage.  It's essentially free space and to me looks a lot better than a soffit.  We've got seasonal coffee mugs and crystal and things like that which you don't use often stored up out of reach, but available.  The pantry cabinet is also an awesome thing.  I went with the one that has the fold-out shelving, rather than the sliding shelving.

Windows and natural light are also important.  We have an eat-in kitchen and the table looks out over the back yard.  Essentially the whole south end of our kitchen is glass.  We love it.  A window at the sink is great, too.  Our original window was actually much like Mike's but we downsized it to two casements windows.  The window ledge is a convenient place for plants, sprouting avocado seeds, etc.

I probably planned the kitchen for two years before I did the work.  Run through all of your options on paper so that you don't second guess yourself after the cabinets are hung and the walls are tiled.

It's the most used room in our house, so for us it was important to get it right.

Not sure I'd spend extra for the convection microwave.  I haven't been too pleased with ours.  It just doesn't seem to perform as it should...  but we also don't use it much.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: metron-brewer on July 22, 2013, 02:48:09 PM
While we just did the demolition on our kitchen redo, so I can't speak to the actual remodel. We did have custom cabinets made and since my wife an I are a little on the taller side, we had the cabinets made 2" higher than normal. Best thing we ever did, no more back aches. It makes it very nice for kneading dough and pasta. We also did a double sink with one side bigger, great for washing larger pots etc.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 22, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Holy cow, thanks so much for the awesome responses so far! Also MDixon THANK YOU for mentioning the pot-filler. Wife thinks they're stupid, but I think it's absolutely awesome and is one of those things that helps make a kitchen look custom IMO.

Do you use all six burners? I want a 6-burner range, too, but am unsure if we even have the space for it - We can do 42" or so fairly easily but anything bigger will sacrifice mucho counterspace.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Alewyfe on July 22, 2013, 04:26:42 PM

I've gutted and remodeled 2 kitchens so far. After doing the first one, which I loved so much, I was nervous that the new one would never work as well. It turned out even better. My space was kind of small, no room for and island or anything like that. I wanted 2 ovens and gave up lower cabinet space to have them.
One is a 6 burner dual fuel Thermidor, it's only 36", but the oven is massive. It will take a full sheet pan.
The other oven is a built in 30". I also have a pot filler - don't use it as much as I could, but forget it's there. I do appreciate it come canning time when using huge pots. Another thing I did because of limited space is get a full size refrigerator...no freezer compartment. I have a pantry in the laundry/mud room, just a few steps from the kitchen, and I have 2 large freezers in there. I added bay windows both above the sink, and in the dinette area. The one above the sink is great for plants, etc. and the one in the dinette doubles as part of the seating allowing us to push the table back from center and use the opposite wall for a mini fridge and bar sink that helps keep people out of the small kitchen area when entertaining.

Also, no microwave in the kitchen. That too is back in the pantry as it only gets used rarely. Left more overhead counters in kitchen area.

Last but not least, all under the upper cabinets has plug mould running full length. Never at a loss to find a plug in my kitchen, plus you don't have the receptacles ruining the look of the tile backsplash.

If you use your kitchen as hard as we do and have a wood floor, which we do, you'd better get used to the distressed look. You are going to dent and scrape it eventually.

Worst thing I did was let my lighting guy put in halogen undercounter light. I didn't want them, I wanted flourescent, but said he couldn't find any. (he didn't really try and I was impatient) Halogen are hot. A pain in the summer when you are trying to do pastry work. Fortunately, the kitchen is pretty bright without them.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 22, 2013, 04:30:04 PM
Halogen are hot. A pain in the summer

Are they ever.  On the plus side, they help keep the betta warm in the winter.

I have only myself to blame for oversights and omissions, though.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 22, 2013, 04:33:54 PM
Our 6 burner is actually a 7 burner and it is not a commercial grade. It is a dual fuel Bertazzoni from Italy and has some really cool features. I looked up the burners:
Semi-rapid
(3) 6500 Btu/h
Rapid
(1) 11000 Btu/h
Dual Wok
(1) 18000 Btu/h (this one has an inner ring and an outer ring)
Auxiliary
(1) 3400 Btu/h

My wife likes to hone in on the 11K burner. I typically use one of the 6.5K or the inner or outer of the dual wok. The Aux is great for simmering something. In truth we probably never use more than 4 at a time even with multiple sauces or dishes.

I'd think about that pot filler. They are not inexpensive and really are not needed.

If you have a spice cabinet it is actually better to keep it away from the stove/oven and lower is better than higher. We had a nice little space next to the sink which worked out stellar.

(http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/269678_240600335968047_5623185_n.jpg)

I should mention I had to get a low profile disposal for the inverted sink base and by the time I figured out my measurements I only had about an inch to play with since I was using the existing drain location. There is a ton to figure out when you are doing it yourself.

Another nice thing is I got rid of the wall switches for the disposal and put in air switches. You can see one of them in this window/sink photo:
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/265049_238914566136624_3167163_n.jpg)

 - -

Joe Sr. - the convection microwave we ended up with is a Kenmore Elite (Sears) and I got an extended warranty (something I never do). They are a problematic item for sure and the reviews for most suck. Ours is great, but we really only use the oven part for frozen pizza.

- -

Alewyfe - if you ever decide to get rid of your undercabinet and don't care about them being dimmable, look at Inspired LED http://inspiredled.com/Shop-by-Project/kitchen-lighting

I did uplighting with normal bright, undercabinet with super bright and then lit our bar sink with ultra bright. Dimming them makes it expensive because you need a transformer and a dimmer switch. I looks like now he has some cheaper options. For the single ultra bright I got a cheap transformer from overseas and a rotary dimmer which is hidden. The undercabinet and uplighting each have a dimmable transformer and each has it's own dimmer. That alone added $200 to the cost of the lights! Ouchy!

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 22, 2013, 04:40:53 PM
Joe Sr. - the convection microwave we ended up with is a Kenmore Elite (Sears) and I got an extended warranty (something I never do). They are a problematic item for sure and the reviews for most suck. Ours is great, but we really only use the oven part for frozen pizza.

We probably have the same model.  I installed it initially and it was so loud I couldn't stand to be in the kitchen when it was on.  Tech came out and said he could repair it or replace the entire unit (this was maybe a week old) so I went with replacement.  Overall it works great, I don't think it gets as hot as it is supposed to.  I've only used the convection part for cookies and for bourbon glazed sweet potatoes.

The convection micro was an upgrade after a babysitter/nanny set fire to the old micro (which worked great, dammit!)

You are spot on about the spice rack (I even use the same Krups coffee grinder you have for my spices) as well as the pot filler.  We don't have a pot filler, but from what I hear they wind up being more ornamental than useful for most people.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 22, 2013, 04:55:30 PM
I actually got the Kenmore because it was the lowest priced convection microwave and I could get a trim kit for it. It was like pulling teeth to get information about microwaves which are built in and you need that in order to get the right cabinet. In the end the information I was given was wrong and so the microwave cabinet was bumped out by our cabinet installer so we could cut out the back and make the back of the microwave fit. It wasn't off by much, but it was off.

- -

another thought, my cabinet installer used special screws to fasten the cabinet to the wall. Most use drywall screws. If you are having the work done by someone else, be sure they are using good quality screws and not drywall screws for the installation of the cabinets. Our guy was a pure pro. It took him three 12 hour days to put in our cabinets and I have found little to nothing wrong with his work.

I believe he used screws similar to these:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020612/23019/10-x-212-highpoint-cabinet-installation-screws-washer-head-combo-drive-zinc-100piece.aspx
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 22, 2013, 05:01:47 PM
Good call on the screws.  Dry-wall screws get very narrow right before the head and can snap.

I think I used deck screws, but I don't recall for sure.  I definitely used finish washers.  With all the 2x6 backing I put in the walls I'm probably over-built but better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: gmac on July 22, 2013, 06:54:14 PM
Redoing ours right now and the one thing I was adamant about was that I didn't want any lower cupboards, only drawers. Pain in the ass getting down on your knees to find something way in the back of a cupboard so it's all gonna be drawers. Big drawers.
Old house had one cupboard with pull out shelves but really they were just drawers that wasted a lot of space and weren't deep enough.
And +1 on outlets. Can't have too many in my opinion.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 22, 2013, 07:59:53 PM
Here are a few photos of the space, plus a (very) (very) basic SketchUp that we did to get an idea of how we'd reorganize. You can see in the sketchup the false wall we did so we don't have that stupid empty space behind the cooktop.

The spot where the fridge is currently used to be the only access into the kitchen before the previous tenants opened up that giant doorway, which we love. So behind the fridge it's just a closed door. We're going to box it all out and put a door on it and turn it into a small pantry.

The fridge in the new kitchen will be to the left of the sink

(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen2.jpg)

Sketchup:

(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen_sketchup.jpg)

(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen3.jpg)

(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen4.jpg)

(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen5.jpg)
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: tonyp on July 22, 2013, 08:54:08 PM
outlets! outlets! outlets! If there was one thing our kitchen needs more of its outlets! don't skimp on the outlets!

:D
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 22, 2013, 10:12:58 PM
Questions in my mind:
What are you keeping?
Are you tied to the range staying in the corner? (Can the hood be rerouted?)
How are you planning to repair the floor where the half wall is located?
What is your lighting plan? (I currently only see lights in the hood.)
What is on the wall right beside the pantry cabinet?
How do/would guests most often enter the kitchen?

- -

If it were mine I would probably either move the cooktop and hood over or put the fridge there, or beside the sink as you mentioned. The sink side is nice because if you have groceries you can plop them on the island and go to the new pantry closet or to the fridge. Of course you can do the same with it on the other side of the range.

Your space just seems to me to be asking for an island on wheels which could be locked. I don't know your cabinet style idea, but that's just what I see.

The current focal point is the half wall. IMO it should be the cooktop or that window or the island. I think I would float and extra piece of countertop above the radiator and may some additional cabinetry beside the door.

A square corner on the island is going to feel a little funky with a corner stove. You might want to match that angle on the island or at least sketch it out to be sure.

If you get a good idea, mock it up with some cardboard, posterboard, sheets, whatever and then you can decide if it will work and how it will look.

Your oven and cooktop can probably be separated, you might think about a lazy susan under the cooktop. We got a super susan in our corner and it is divine.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 22, 2013, 11:17:06 PM
Your oven and cooktop can probably be separated, you might think about a lazy susan under the cooktop. We got a super susan in our corner and it is divine.

Are we roommates?  The super susan rocks.

The space looks a little narrow as sketched up, so a rolling island might be the deal.  Or a counter height table.  Had one of those in our kitchen, but gave it to my brother.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 05:56:26 AM
Your oven and cooktop can probably be separated, you might think about a lazy susan under the cooktop. We got a super susan in our corner and it is divine.

Are we roommates?  The super susan rocks.

The space looks a little narrow as sketched up, so a rolling island might be the deal.  Or a counter height table.  Had one of those in our kitchen, but gave it to my brother.

It's probably hard to see but walkway clearances are 48 inches, which is handicap-accessible IIRC. Do you guys have the same?

Yes a rolling island is something we considered just last night. Ikea has a great island with screw levels on the feet that get hidden by a sliding square piece of metal on each leg, so it looks like it's solid but it's not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 11:11:37 AM
Questions in my mind:
What are you keeping?
Are you tied to the range staying in the corner? (Can the hood be rerouted?)
How are you planning to repair the floor where the half wall is located?
What is your lighting plan? (I currently only see lights in the hood.)
What is on the wall right beside the pantry cabinet?
How do/would guests most often enter the kitchen?

Keeping: nothing. Everything goes except the crown molding on the ceiling.

Range staying in corner/hood rerouting: This was an old chimney outlet, so I think I could probably reroute it, but I'm not really sure. I like the idea of keeping the hot wall on the same side as the fireplace (it's to the right of the half wall in the pics) just to keep the 'warm' away from the 'cool,' i.e. fridge. However it's a neat idea, and worth investigating. Only other thing to keep in mind is that I am not sure what's under the tile. I am pretty sure it's laid on concrete which is on top of the solid stone foundation. There is no basement on this part. That means that any re-jiggering involving for example gas lines and electricity would mean digging a trench in the concrete, or hiding pipes somehow.

Repair the floor: IF we can find the tile, I'll re-lay tile. Otherwise, area rug. It really ties the room together.

Lighting plan: THere is basically no lighting right now. It's horrible. We will do under-cabinet LEDs per your suggestion, for sure, as well as up-lighting. I am unsure what to do with the giant plaster medallion on the ceiling. I would like to have a nice fixture there, but this room is really two distinct spaces, and I really want task lighting / pot hanger/rack above the island, so I'm not sure how to do that without making the ceiling look 'busy.'

Wall right beside the pantry cabinet: Not sure what you're referring to here. If you mean the spot where the fridge is now, that's one of the radiators. However we could theoretically remove it as the fireplace puts out plenty of heat in the winter, but I'd like to keep it if possible.

Guests come in via either the door leading to the deck, the front door (we have another 'main' front door though) and through the open space between the kitchen/living and dining room.

I see what you mean about a corner island facing a corner stove. But I've included 48" of space from the oven front to the island corner, so in theory it'll be OK. Casters/rolling island would help, but I am of course not against the idea of lopping a corner off in the name of easier access.

gmac one of the things norm abram says in his videos is exactly what you say, he doesn't want lower cabinets, just drawers. We are going the same route, it will make things so much easier. My only concern is stuff getting trapped behind there, but it's not very likely, really.

Also I think we all have the same spice grinder. Mine is black, though.

Another thing we will have to do, is to replace the window. Right now the counter and sink are about 6" higher than the bottom of the window, so you can't actually open it (it opens inwards). We are going to replace it with a two-section window, with a bottom part that doesn't open and a top part that does open. The surround on the window is solid stone and I don't want to get a mason in to build it up - we'll just bump out the countertop a bit to cover it up so things don't get trapped behind there.

We absolutely need outlets. I have one plug in the entire damn kitchen, and I've got a multiplug plugged into it. We will most likely have to have an electrician in to add some circuits for the oven and fridge. I think it's only one 16 amp fuse right now, so if you use the dishwasher, oven, hood, and water boiler all at the same time, the circuit trips. Thankfully the fuse box is right there on the far wall and at eye level, so it's easy to fix.

Another thing we have to keep in mind is how things flow around the fireplace.

Also we're pretty much 100% decided on doing a concrete countertop. We are going to get this book: www.amazon.com/Concrete-Countertops-Simple-Step---Step/dp/1561588822 Which is supposed to make everything very clear. Even if I screw up somehow, it will still be orders of magnitude cheaper to have done countertops ourselves than to have bought even a less expensive granite top.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 11:16:22 AM
If it were mine I would probably either move the cooktop and hood over or put the fridge there, or beside the sink as you mentioned. The sink side is nice because if you have groceries you can plop them on the island and go to the new pantry closet or to the fridge. Of course you can do the same with it on the other side of the range.

Not sure I understand what you mean here?
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on July 23, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
There's not much we regret about our kitchen. We still might put in a garbage disposal. Let me know if you find one.

One thing that was hard for me when we were designing our kitchen is getting over the idea that we needed under-cabinet counter space. I would recommend getting rid of part of it and putting in full wall cabinets. Why the need for so much counter space? It gets cluttered, it's not pleasant work space, you can get more cupboard space and you have a massive island.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 23, 2013, 12:11:08 PM
If it were mine I would probably either move the cooktop and hood over or put the fridge there, or beside the sink as you mentioned. The sink side is nice because if you have groceries you can plop them on the island and go to the new pantry closet or to the fridge. Of course you can do the same with it on the other side of the range.

Not sure I understand what you mean here?

I would think about either shifting the cooktop to the left or move the fridge there. The problem with the fridge there is now the fridge will become a focal point.

There is something right beside your panty cabinet on the wall. It may be an outlet or a switch or a piece of molding, but there is something.

I'd put a flush mount in your ceiling medallion. Or a fixture coming out of it with lights which could be positioned to illuminate the island.

Pot racks look neat, but tend to block views and will become the focal point. I have ok pots, but really don't want to put them on display.

Another neat thing we did was to not have a knife block, we have a knife drawer with inserts. It has worked out awesome. I put my high end knives to the left, our crap knives in the middle and our decent knives to the right.

48" of space is quite a bit. We have 3' on one side and a little less on the other, but I did not secure our island to the floor so if I need to move it over I can. Our island is 3' x 6' in the cabinets.

I thought about concrete countertops, but they are not especially cheap when you consider everything. Granite has come down in price in the US to the point it hardly makes sense to do any other surface so long as you pick a lower cost rock. I wanted Quartz and it was more than granite. I also wanted Cherry cabinets and they were so expensive I almost fell over. We splurged on the finish of the island. Painted and antiqued was quite a bit more than stained.

Since you have no outlets you might consider putting in plugmold. You could do that on two walls undercabinet for an affordable cost. In our kitchen there was so much required it wasn't practical. To cut the plugmold to length you can take out the wiring and then use a wood chop saw if you have a good blade. Rewiring the plugmold is the most irritating task ever. If I was an electrician and a homeowner asked me for it I would charge out the wazoo because of how difficult it is to handle.

We did drawers on one large cabinet in the island for pots and pand, but have three with a fixed shelf and a roll out shelf at the bottom. Drawers would not hold things like a mixer and blender upright.

We also did every drawer and door with a soft close. The doors are simple and you can do them yourself, although I let our guy install them. The drawers are a mechanism and you will probably have to buy your cabinets with them.

What really will dress up the look is molding and light rail as well as a side panel on any exposed side surface. I don't know how you do cabinets in France, but I'd suggest looking at several places from custom to big box and see what the options are for them. We used a local company and they sold cabinets made in TX, and then they contracted our installer as part of the price. The nice part about that is I did not have to think about all the moldings. We went back and forth on design and features and then our installer helped with a few changes on the fly.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 12:43:13 PM
There's not much we regret about our kitchen. We still might put in a garbage disposal. Let me know if you find one.

Dude, compost! We're doing a special cutout for a couter-flush compost bucket like this:

(http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/54tren0331.jpg)

Anyway garbage disposals are illegal in many parts of France and many other EU countries. In French they're called "Broyeur d’évier" but are pretty much unknown except by us 'mercuns. They're not cheap - I found exactly one for ~500 euros. Germany has them it seems, look for Küchenabfallzerkleinerer.

Pastebomb of legislation:

Quote
In Deutschland wird eine solche Zulassung, wie in vielen EU-Ländern auch, zumeist abgelehnt. DIN 1986-100, Nr. 6.5 vom Oktober 2001:[2] „Zerkleinerungsgeräte für Küchenabfälle, Müll, Papier usw. sowie Handtuchspender mit Spülvorrichtung, bei denen das zerkleinerte Spülgut in die Entwässerungsanlage gelangen kann, dürfen nicht an die Abwasseranlage angeschlossen werden,“[3] allerdings wird das Gerät in der Nachfolgeregelung 12056 nicht mehr erwähnt. Es gibt in Deutschland kein nationales Verbot, einzelne Gemeinden verbieten aber Abfälle, auch zerkleinerte, in ihrer Abwasserverordnung. In der Schweiz verbietet das örtliche Abwasserreglement normalerweise den Einsatz ebenfalls.
-- http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCchenabfallzerkleinerer
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Jimmy K on July 23, 2013, 12:45:06 PM
I thought I was the only one with curtain-less curtain rods.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 12:53:12 PM
Ah MDixon you mean in this photo?
(http://philliplamb.com/kitchen3.jpg)

Next to the paper towel dispenser on the far right of the photo? That's a (non-functional) light. It will go away.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on July 23, 2013, 12:55:51 PM
Dude, compost!

The cutout is a cool idea. But you can compost 'till the cows come home, you're still going to get stuff in your sink and have to clean out the drain cover. It's icky.

There a big home trade show here every year. There's one stand with disposals there, but the saleschick is a b****. You had to buy there, on the spot and there was no way to get any information if you happen to be in the process of building a house and were only considering a disposal. I think she was French.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 12:57:37 PM
Also MDixon we're not buying them at all, we're doing everything - carcass, rail&style doors, drawer boxes - ourselves. Hardware will come from ikea most likely - they might do some things pretty cheap, but their drawer hinges and things are pretty great and not expensive.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on July 23, 2013, 12:59:02 PM
BTW, the dude in the sketch-up looks just like you.

And +1 for silent closing.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 01:01:04 PM
There a big home trade show here every year. There's one stand with disposals there, but the saleschick is a b****. You had to buy there, on the spot and there was no way to get any information if you happen to be in the process of building a house and were only considering a disposal. I think she was French.

Sounds about right. I get asked routinely (by the natives) how I managed to procure X, Y or Z. My answer is always the same: internet.

Try this:
https://www.google.fr/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=bruyeur+d'evier&oq=bruyeur+d'evier

I am constantly amazed at the cluelessness of many French vendors of various things re pricing and customer service. Prices are routinely 2x as much as they are in, for example, Germany or the UK. Bug spray, for example, from 3M, is 30 f-ing euros here, and i can get the same thing shipped from the UK for ~5-10 euros. That, and the 'ol standby, when I ask about a very specific product - staring-blankly-at-me-like-a-deer-in-the-headlights-and-then-telling-me-that-it-doesn't-exist-so-that-they-can-save-face-and-not-have-to-admit-to-being-wrong-or-not-knowing-about-something.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 23, 2013, 01:01:50 PM
BTW, the dude in the sketch-up looks just like you.

Had to pay extra for that one.  :o  8)
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 23, 2013, 02:28:25 PM
Also we're pretty much 100% decided on doing a concrete countertop. We are going to get this book: www.amazon.com/Concrete-Countertops-Simple-Step---Step/dp/1561588822 Which is supposed to make everything very clear. Even if I screw up somehow, it will still be orders of magnitude cheaper to have done countertops ourselves than to have bought even a less expensive granite top.

If you're going to do concrete countertops, Cheng is the guy.  From my research, they seem like they can be a fair bit of work particularly if you're going to grind it and finish it for a kitchen.  I still may do one for an outdoor grill table, but a wood top looks increasingly more attractive due to the ease factor.

Our granite was not a budget buster, and it was nice to come home and have it there without having had to do any additional work.  Plus, you pay them to measure and get it right.  If it's wrong, that's their problem not yours.  Mis-pour or mis-measure and you'll be doing two concrete tops.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: mabrungard on July 23, 2013, 04:29:58 PM

Anyway garbage disposals are illegal in many parts of France and many other EU countries. In French they're called "Broyeur d’évier" but are pretty much unknown except by us 'mercuns. They're not cheap - I found exactly one for ~500 euros. Germany has them it seems, look for Küchenabfallzerkleinerer.


Disposals are an inefficient way to get rid of kitchen wastes.  It costs far more for the treatment plant to handle it than just keeping it out of the wastewater and carting it off to a landfill or incinerator.  That can be ameliorated if the treatment plant has digestion processes and gas recovery, but its still not perfect.  If you are on a septic system, then disposals are absolutely not the way to go.  You will end up filling the tank up with solids and have to clean it out far more often.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 23, 2013, 10:29:48 PM
A disposal should never be used on a septic system and grease should not be put down the drain of any septic system. It's not so much they will fill the tank, it is the solids could be pushed into the leachfield and blind the soil surface to the point the system would not operate and maintenace would have to be required (read as a new leachfield installed). (At one time I was what you might call an expert on septic systems.)

As far as a disposal in the kitchen the waste should as much as possible be placed in the refuse. Grease as well. We tend to use it when things spill over in the sink and then run it to be sure the particulates are as small as possible before they enter the sewer system. My wife tends to put more down the disposal than I do. Something one should avoid in the disposal is egg shells, they really don't break down in the long run.

With all that in mind, I do like having them to be sure I never clog my drains in the kitchen with inadvertent waste entering the drain, but Martin is correct, do not use them as the main place to discard kitchen waste. (Yeah, in a previous life I designed WWTPs too.)

- -

Phil, what I am talking about is to the right of the deck door and left of the cabinet. My guess would be a lightswitch.

The compost bucket can become a stinky thing. Think about that before you leave a hole in the countertop, since you will have to manage that waste and more than a few days in the compost pot can become nasty. You probably already compost and know that. I had a plan to put in a compost area in our kitchen, but ditched it. We don't generate enough compost waste since I am so rarely home until the weekend.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: hopfenundmalz on July 23, 2013, 11:42:35 PM
We did an kitchen renovation  about 2 months back. We were happy with the cabinets and counter tops. Replaced the $0.79/sq. ft. Contractor grade tile with 10.79 travertine. Travertine backsplash, with travertine electrical outlet covers. Also did some nice glass and SS surrounds for the can lights, and put in some LED's which make it much brighter. The appliances were getting somewhat suspect, so most were replaced with SS, and we went from an electrict to a gas stove. Efficiencies are higher, and the appliances are much quieter.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on July 24, 2013, 03:58:42 AM
Tile is a great topic. We settled on travertine for the backsplash. It was subway 3" x 6" and came in about $5 per square foot plus thinset. grout and sealer. I had painted the wall and so I had to sand the drywall with 80 grit and remove the paint since it was semi-gloss. What a pain. Then with a natural stone you use thinset instead of mastic. Mastic can be used with a porcelain, but will bleed through a natural stone. Once it dried I sealed and then waited 72 hours and grouted. Another 72 hours and then sealed the tile and the grout. I found the travertine had natural fault lines and would occasionally break as I finished the cuts on the tile saw. The stone we selected had a bevel so I bought a wet grinder with honing stones and put the bevel back on using the grinder to finish the tile before install. If I had to do it over again I would not paint the backsplash unless I planned to leave it as paint.

Light trim is a topic all it's own. We did can lights and I selected specular trim for the 6" perimeter lights and then 4" adjustable trim on the three recessed island lights so I could aim them at the island. They were adjustable 30 degrees IIRC.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 24, 2013, 09:01:30 AM
A disposal should never be used on a septic system and grease should not be put down the drain of any septic system. It's not so much they will fill the tank, it is the solids could be pushed into the leachfield and blind the soil surface to the point the system would not operate and maintenace would have to be required (read as a new leachfield installed). (At one time I was what you might call an expert on septic systems.)

As far as a disposal in the kitchen the waste should as much as possible be placed in the refuse. Grease as well. We tend to use it when things spill over in the sink and then run it to be sure the particulates are as small as possible before they enter the sewer system. My wife tends to put more down the disposal than I do. Something one should avoid in the disposal is egg shells, they really don't break down in the long run.

With all that in mind, I do like having them to be sure I never clog my drains in the kitchen with inadvertent waste entering the drain, but Martin is correct, do not use them as the main place to discard kitchen waste. (Yeah, in a previous life I designed WWTPs too.)

- -

Phil, what I am talking about is to the right of the deck door and left of the cabinet. My guess would be a lightswitch.

The compost bucket can become a stinky thing. Think about that before you leave a hole in the countertop, since you will have to manage that waste and more than a few days in the compost pot can become nasty. You probably already compost and know that. I had a plan to put in a compost area in our kitchen, but ditched it. We don't generate enough compost waste since I am so rarely home until the weekend.

Agreed with both of you on the disposal, its purpose would be to get the tiny bits and keep the sink from clogging. We fill up our 2 liter (~half gallon) compost bucket every two days, and it gets changed immediately, so the smell isn't too much of an issue, especially if the lid fits tightly enough.

And yes you're right, it's a light switch, but all of the electrical in the kitchen is run through conduit which has been stuck to the wall (2-foot thick solid stone walls do not have cavities for running cable), so moving it is easy peasy.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 24, 2013, 09:49:41 AM
Tile is a great topic. We settled on travertine for the backsplash. It was subway 3" x 6" and came in about $5 per square foot plus thinset. grout and sealer. I had painted the wall and so I had to sand the drywall with 80 grit and remove the paint since it was semi-gloss. What a pain. Then with a natural stone you use thinset instead of mastic. Mastic can be used with a porcelain, but will bleed through a natural stone. Once it dried I sealed and then waited 72 hours and grouted. Another 72 hours and then sealed the tile and the grout. I found the travertine had natural fault lines and would occasionally break as I finished the cuts on the tile saw. The stone we selected had a bevel so I bought a wet grinder with honing stones and put the bevel back on using the grinder to finish the tile before install. If I had to do it over again I would not paint the backsplash unless I planned to leave it as paint.

Light trim is a topic all it's own. We did can lights and I selected specular trim for the 6" perimeter lights and then 4" adjustable trim on the three recessed island lights so I could aim them at the island. They were adjustable 30 degrees IIRC.

Hey, for once, you guys pay more than me for something! I can get 7x7 travertine 3/8" thick for ~$8 / square foot. Who knows about the quality, but I'm used to paying 2-3x what you guys do for stuff so I'm happy to have some good news for once :)

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on July 24, 2013, 10:01:01 AM
Phil, about the prices, it could be worse. You could be in Belgium. If you're ever looking to get away on a short road trip, go to Germany. You could do a Kolsh beer weekend and pay for with with the savings you'll get from buying construction gear there. It's amazing how much cheaper stuff is there. We saved 20 euros just on a wheelbarrow. You could pay for the trip in paint alone, assuming paint costs you similar fortunes as here.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on July 24, 2013, 10:02:19 AM
More on the Germany thing - I've known people with company cars and a gas card who would regularly drive to Germany just for groceries.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: euge on July 24, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
I may be mistaken but according to the sketch the fireplace gets covered up?
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 24, 2013, 02:26:48 PM
Tile is a great topic.

My advice on tile is let the wife pick whatever she wants.  We've got small glass tiles and I paid for the installation rather than attempt it myself.  Regardless, a tile backsplash gives a much more finished look than just paint.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 24, 2013, 03:40:55 PM
Phil, about the prices, it could be worse. You could be in Belgium. If you're ever looking to get away on a short road trip, go to Germany. You could do a Kolsh beer weekend and pay for with with the savings you'll get from buying construction gear there. It's amazing how much cheaper stuff is there. We saved 20 euros just on a wheelbarrow. You could pay for the trip in paint alone, assuming paint costs you similar fortunes as here.

20 euros a pint for paint here ($25/pint)
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 24, 2013, 03:41:25 PM
I may be mistaken but according to the sketch the fireplace gets covered up?

Nope. You're just seeing my laziness in action. Fireplace stays for sure!
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 24, 2013, 03:42:58 PM
Tile is a great topic.

My advice on tile is let the wife pick whatever she wants.  We've got small glass tiles and I paid for the installation rather than attempt it myself.  Regardless, a tile backsplash gives a much more finished look than just paint.

Yep... We're doing a custom tile backsplash for the oven/range using some tile from these guys (most likely)... http://www.jossefrance.fr/fr/carreaux-terre-cuite-emaille/bretagne/reference.php?decor=47&collection=62&ambiance=148
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: brewmichigan on July 24, 2013, 06:02:03 PM
Man, I wish I had the space you guys do in my Kitchen.

We just did a remodel a couple years ago and are still working on the finishing touches. Mainly the trim under the cabinets since the floor just got finished a few months ago.

We replaced the cabinets and tore down a pantry that was built in the middle on the kitchen. It's only purpose was a cold air return for one bedroom upstairs. Moved that into a wall instead and got rid of the hideous pantry. Because of our space issues I had to keep the fridge where it is and the range but I added an island with some much needed counter space. Amazing how quickly the island now gets filled up with Junk.

I have been looking at led lights recently and have come across this company. http://www.elementalled.com/
They have some decent prices on dimmable leds. I bought some from Lowes because I didn't tear into the walls to put in any wiring for under cabinet lights and have some cabinets that don't connect and just have a few setup. Good luck!
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 25, 2013, 09:56:24 AM
Man, I wish I had the space you guys do in my Kitchen.

We just did a remodel a couple years ago and are still working on the finishing touches. Mainly the trim under the cabinets since the floor just got finished a few months ago.

We replaced the cabinets and tore down a pantry that was built in the middle on the kitchen. It's only purpose was a cold air return for one bedroom upstairs. Moved that into a wall instead and got rid of the hideous pantry. Because of our space issues I had to keep the fridge where it is and the range but I added an island with some much needed counter space. Amazing how quickly the island now gets filled up with Junk.

I have been looking at led lights recently and have come across this company. http://www.elementalled.com/
They have some decent prices on dimmable leds. I bought some from Lowes because I didn't tear into the walls to put in any wiring for under cabinet lights and have some cabinets that don't connect and just have a few setup. Good luck!

You should have seen our old kitchen. Probably 90 square feet, but that includes the footprints of the cabinets. Two people in there was not a good thing, and it was completely closed off from the livingroom. Really happy to have an open kitchen again.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: euge on July 25, 2013, 10:32:49 PM
What I'm planning to do is tear all my cabinets, counters, backsplash, sink etc out and re-tile all the floors to the wall. Then install a drain. New commercial sink w/sprayer, SS backsplash, wheeled commercial kitchen tables and suitable heavy duty range-convection oven and hood. More SS racks for storage of pans, plates and foodstuffs...

Want to brew? Clean? Just move everything... Freakin wheel a Brutus in if'n I so desire!

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 26, 2013, 12:33:21 AM
Take the tile up the walls a bout 18 inches and make it a big tub!
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 30, 2013, 11:14:27 AM
Decided that it would be good to get some cement countertops under my belt before doing a nice one for our kitchen, so I'll be doing a new top and some reconfiguration of my outdoor bbq table/bar.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: brewmichigan on July 30, 2013, 01:45:54 PM
Decided that it would be good to get some cement countertops under my belt before doing a nice one for our kitchen, so I'll be doing a new top and some reconfiguration of my outdoor bbq table/bar.

I love cement counter tops. If you do it yourself it can be a huge savings and look amazing. This old house has done a few and they have a show on doing them your self. I'd check them out.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on July 30, 2013, 02:44:22 PM
Decided that it would be good to get some cement countertops under my belt before doing a nice one for our kitchen, so I'll be doing a new top and some reconfiguration of my outdoor bbq table/bar.

I love cement counter tops. If you do it yourself it can be a huge savings and look amazing. This old house has done a few and they have a show on doing them your self. I'd check them out.

I am a ThisOldHouseAHolic. Me and Kevin are total BFFs. Not enough detail in those episodes though, which is why I'm getting the Cheng book.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 30, 2013, 03:09:35 PM
Decided that it would be good to get some cement countertops under my belt before doing a nice one for our kitchen, so I'll be doing a new top and some reconfiguration of my outdoor bbq table/bar.

I looked into this, but have not built anything yet.  The big thing I found, if you're putting a grill inside the table, is that you need to have space between the grill itself and the concrete, or else the concrete will degrade from the heat.  If you're using a BGE, it's not such a big deal, but I've got Weber kettle.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: corkybstewart on July 30, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
We just did a total kitchen remodel, but except for the demolition all I did was sign the checks.  We went with white granite countertops, and the backsplash is a 4 inch strip of black granite and then the same white granite up to the cabinets.  We also replaced the cabinets with new oak ones that go all the way to the ceiling.  I really hate wasted space, and I can put lots of stuff up there that only needs to be used for our really big parties like Oktoberfest.
We also had recessed LED lights put in, that alone made a huge difference in the appearance and function of the kitchen.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 05, 2013, 01:29:54 PM
I have another suggestion. Spend some time with your wife talking about what you despise about the current kitchen. We had a counter which was square and I always had to step around it coming in from the garage. While the cabinet guy was measuring I mentioned how much I hated the corner and asked if we could make it a 45 angled cabinet. He of course said sure and we did and I am so glad we did. My wife and I had never discussed it and luckily I brought it up. That simple change makes it so much easier to enter from the garage without the corner in the way.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 05, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
I have another suggestion. Spend some time with your wife talking about what you despise about the current kitchen. We had a counter which was square and I always had to step around it coming in from the garage. While the cabinet guy was measuring I mentioned how much I hated the corner and asked if we could make it a 45 angled cabinet. He of course said sure and we did and I am so glad we did. My wife and I had never discussed it and luckily I brought it up. That simple change makes it so much easier to enter from the garage without the corner in the way.

Yep, we've got a list going of the things we hate. We're very limited in terms of overall layout, however, as it's a relatively small space (relative to what you guys can get over there anyway) and door/window/fireplace placement means we have to keep most everything in the same positions. But what we will absolutely do, is get rid of that horrid brick half wall, and replace the sink with one that has a bigger bowl and not that stupid built-in 'drying rack' that takes up counter space. Also more cabinets. We had talked about going all the way to the ceiling, but I think we'll end up leaving it just below where the molding starts so we can put in uplighting.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Vin S on August 05, 2013, 02:17:45 PM
Phillam, is there any way you could move fridge to the wall close to sink. and then make the wall were fridge is a pantry area. Having sink fridge stove all the kitchen triangle will make the kitchen more user friendly.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 05, 2013, 04:02:38 PM
Phillam, is there any way you could move fridge to the wall close to sink. and then make the wall were fridge is a pantry area. Having sink fridge stove all the kitchen triangle will make the kitchen more user friendly.

Yep, that's the plan actually.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 06, 2013, 11:38:28 AM
Uplighting is good if you have some space between the ceiling and the cabinet. If it isn't at least a foot I would not bother with it. If the cabinets have a crown moulding the easiest thing to put up would the the strip LED I linked to earlier in the thread. They can just lay on top of the cabinet. Ours were sized to be the length of the sides and front of the cabinets. We didn't have a gang of cabinets since everything was stand alone or different heights. (Of course we have no uplighting where the cabinets go to the ceiling.)
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 11, 2013, 05:28:10 PM
Uplighting is good if you have some space between the ceiling and the cabinet. If it isn't at least a foot I would not bother with it. If the cabinets have a crown moulding the easiest thing to put up would the the strip LED I linked to earlier in the thread. They can just lay on top of the cabinet. Ours were sized to be the length of the sides and front of the cabinets. We didn't have a gang of cabinets since everything was stand alone or different heights. (Of course we have no uplighting where the cabinets go to the ceiling.)

I looked at LED strip lighting today in the hardware store. Granted this particular chain is one that seems to have a business model of charging ridiculously high prices for everything, but: $66 for 5 feet of lighting seems expensive to me. Yes? No? It's the thin plastic strip stuff, almost like a laminate.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 13, 2013, 01:47:51 PM
Check out Inspired LED. They run on a 12V supply. The power input pin size unless they changed it is the same as an old Nokia cell phone charger. http://inspiredled.com/products/flexible-led-strips

These are adhesive on the back side. I used Normal Bright for uplights, Super Bright for undercabinet and then one Ultra Bright for task lighting.

These things would ship in a USPS box, I'm not sure of the shipping rate to France, but it would have to be reasonable,probably less than $30. The weight is almost nothing. The lights coil, then you peel and stick. I actually tried out the location with painting tape and then peeled. Speak with the owner and he can help with a layout and lengths.

I bought one power supply from Hong Kong and wired it into the wall. I just made sure the output was 12V and I believe it took 110-240V input. It was $8 and free shipping to the US. This appears very close to what I remember wiring into the wall box from the line power:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12W-LED-12V-DC-DRIVER-SWITICHING-POWER-TRANSFORMER-POWER-SUPPLY-1-0A-/350547698394?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item519e4562da

I also got a dimmer for the Ultra Bright task lighting, but in truth it wasn't needed. It is like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K1BO-LED-Light-Dimmer-Modulator-Brightness-Adjustable-Control-12V-24V-8A-JT1-/251269359718?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item3a80d22866
and wires after the power supply and before the LED. I think it was $8 as well when I bought it. Again it came from Hong Kong.

I did have to use a dark caulk on the inside of the upper crown to keep the light from coming through between the cabinet and the crown on the uplighting. Also on the task lighting I had to put it on the arch above our prep sink. I did two dimmable transformers and would not suggest to go that route. The transformers were $65 each and the dimmer switches were nearly $30. So almost 2 bills just to dim not including all the wire I needed for the walls. It really drove up the cost and in truth is nice, but unnecessary.

I would not do bulky LED fixtures, the strips are awesome and low profile.

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 14, 2013, 01:42:50 AM
Photo of dimmer and Super Bright undercabinet on left and Ultra Bright Task Lighting on right:
(http://mashbang.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/photo-aug-13-9-49-08-am.jpg)

Photo of undercabinet Super Bright led strip at full brightness:
(http://mashbang.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/photo-aug-13-9-50-49-am.jpg)

The difference in the brightness is how many led are present per inch.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 16, 2013, 08:21:16 AM
Woah, mdixon, THANK YOU for those links. You probably just saved me more than $200, and plus it looks like these are much better quality. Agreed on the dimmer, not sure that we'll fuss that much with it.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 16, 2013, 12:20:13 PM
Here is my layout, I changed the wiring around a little, but we went back and forth. The key is to get him the cabinet dimensions so he can get the correct length of LED for what you want and to allow for connectors. They can all daisy chain if the power suppy is big enough and if you do not care about them being switched separately.

(http://mashbang.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/kitchen-led.jpg)

Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 16, 2013, 12:48:12 PM
So another thing about the tile, I've done some research and am considering doing something like this: http://www.ukflooringdirect.co.uk/Engineered/Engineered_Hand_Aged_Distressed_Coffee_Oak_189mm_Brushed_%2526_Lacqu.html

Apparently with a floating floor you can install it directly on top of the existing tile, as long as the appropriate vapor barrier is added first.

Plus in case of major water damage, the damaged planks could be ripped out and replaced fairly 'easily.'

What about electric subfloor heating? I asked the guy at ukflooringdirect about it, he said it's pretty easy to just add a layer between the substrate and the floating floor, it's sort of a looped resistance that you lay down like a carpet. Anybody have this?
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 16, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
My father has electric mat in his bathrooms. I think he actually got it off ebay from someone in the UK. I noticed awhile back that Costco has it online (you can find the installation manual there):
http://www.costco.com/heating-systems.html

I don't know how that would work with a floating floor, I would think it might cause maximum expansion. My father installed his under tile. The installation instructions seem to indicate it it made for a tile floor.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on August 16, 2013, 01:25:35 PM
It's my understanding that you can't (or shouldn't) do under-floor heating under a floating floor. It's inefficient, for one thing. Also, early under-floor heating was actually too warm and bad for you. People were getting blood clots in their legs and stuff. I can imagine that a cheap mat directly under a floating floor (the sub-floor should be poured over the heating tubes) would have the same issues.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 16, 2013, 01:54:13 PM
It's my understanding that you can't (or shouldn't) do under-floor heating under a floating floor. It's inefficient, for one thing. Also, early under-floor heating was actually too warm and bad for you. People were getting blood clots in their legs and stuff. I can imagine that a cheap mat directly under a floating floor (the sub-floor should be poured over the heating tubes) would have the same issues.

The blood clots thing is something I've heard a lot from my French colleagues. I am guessing this may be one of those things that Europeans believe for whatever reason. I.e., 'air conditioning is bad for your health' and 'fresh corn is only for feeding animals.'
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 16, 2013, 02:47:42 PM
It's my understanding that you can't (or shouldn't) do under-floor heating under a floating floor. It's inefficient, for one thing. Also, early under-floor heating was actually too warm and bad for you. People were getting blood clots in their legs and stuff. I can imagine that a cheap mat directly under a floating floor (the sub-floor should be poured over the heating tubes) would have the same issues.

Also these are two completely different things, I'm talking about electrical under-floor which is a thin mat with a low-voltage heating wire (like an electric blanket) and the This Old House guys have installed them before, I think you're talking about liquid-based radiant heat taking the place of traditional heaters.

We just want something to keep our feet warm during the (long) winter, the main heat in the house is generated by radiators and a big ol wood-burning fireplace.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 19, 2013, 01:41:31 PM
How do you guys handle compost? I am liking these flush counter-mounted bins.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: theoman on August 19, 2013, 01:56:35 PM
I have a plastic bin with a charcoal filter that I keep under the sink and use when the weather sucks or when I'm just too lazy. Otherwise I walk out to the compost bin with a plate or bag when I'm cleaning up. Even a day or two under the sink, stuff gets nasty. It's best just to deal with it right away. It would be nice to have a hole in the counter to just scrape stuff into, but I can't imagine how that would really make things easier overall. You still have to take the stuff out, so the receptacle would have to be easy to remove. That would mean pulling it up through the counter top. Climbing under the counter to unscrew it would be annoying.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 19, 2013, 02:02:59 PM
I have a container in my pull out trash area. The back part holds the compost bin, the front the garbage.
http://www.rev-a-shelf.com/p-448-single-soft-close-top-mount-1-5-face-frame-wood-waste-containers.aspx

EDIT:
This may be what we have, either way you get the drift.
http://www.rev-a-shelf.com/p-297-single-top-mount-1-5-face-frame-wood-waste-containers.aspx?variant=967
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 28, 2013, 11:11:32 AM
One thing I'd like to do is to do cabinet facing on the fridge. But there are no french door fridges here that are sold without front panels - everything has pre-finished fronts on it, sometimes curvy fake stainless type deals. I'd rather put together my own cabinet frames for them, but is it possible to retroactively turn a non-built-in fridge into a built-in one? I usually just google about things like this, but I don't even know what to call it.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 29, 2013, 12:29:07 PM
I don't know how they do things in France, but most of the fridges with a cabinet facing are reduced depth. I solved that problem by bumping out one wall to make a recess for the fridge so it did not stick out as far.

I think what you are after would be called a panel-ready refrigerator. They typically are big $$.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on August 30, 2013, 02:19:50 PM
I don't know how they do things in France, but most of the fridges with a cabinet facing are reduced depth. I solved that problem by bumping out one wall to make a recess for the fridge so it did not stick out as far.

I think what you are after would be called a panel-ready refrigerator. They typically are big $$.

Any way to DIY/force a regular fridge to be a 'panel ready' one? I only have $ as opposed to $$. For fun, I contacted Sub-Zero and Wolf to see how much they cost. The freaking ventilator hood is sold WITHOUT A VENTILATOR FAN. That being said at least they are consistent with pricing, everything costs $5,000.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 30, 2013, 02:35:30 PM
You could probably strip the exterior of the existing doors off, but who knows how much work that will take.

On our fridge, the finish panel is just that.  You can get the fridge in different finishes, so the panel must come off.  The hardware (hinges, handles) all bolt into a frame that is not integral to the finish panel.

If you stripped this off and tried to replace it with wood, the only area I see difficulty is the clearance on the doors when opening/closign.  I think this would be a problem with either a side by side or French door fridge.  There is not much space between the doors when they are closed, so you'd need a pretty thin veneer to make it work.  Probably not so much a problem with over/under styles.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: MDixon on August 30, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
I don't think it can be done easily with a standard fridge.

I did a search on a large appliance site and came up with a few around $2500-3000 + panels. That's a bunch of money IMO to spend just to not see a fridge front.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: corkybstewart on August 31, 2013, 04:13:39 AM
I'm probably a little late but here's my $.02 on wood floors in the kitchen.  We just remodeled our kitchen  including new wood floors, almost identical to what you're considering, but I would do it different next time.  The wood floors look magnificent, but every time I wash veggies or do dishes I spill a little water on the floor.  Whether it's justified or not I drop what I'm doing and mop up the spill.  When we had tile in the kitchen I never even gave a few drops of water a second thought.
Title: Re: Kitchen re-do
Post by: phillamb168 on September 02, 2013, 08:46:21 AM
I'm probably a little late but here's my $.02 on wood floors in the kitchen.  We just remodeled our kitchen  including new wood floors, almost identical to what you're considering, but I would do it different next time.  The wood floors look magnificent, but every time I wash veggies or do dishes I spill a little water on the floor.  Whether it's justified or not I drop what I'm doing and mop up the spill.  When we had tile in the kitchen I never even gave a few drops of water a second thought.

What sort of finish did your floors come with? We are looking at a laquered finish... Did you do plywood-backed, or solid wood?