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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: yso191 on July 26, 2013, 08:56:50 pm

Title: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: yso191 on July 26, 2013, 08:56:50 pm
What Brun' Water 'Desired Water Profile' would be best for a Saison?
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: mabrungard on July 27, 2013, 07:18:11 am
You must have been reading my mind and holding that packet of Belle Saison yeast we received at the Philly conference. 

In my opinion, there isn't a definitive profile for what a saison is brewed with.  However, you can get an idea of what might work well by studying the locations of the various Belgian profiles included in Bru'n Water.  Given the location of Brasserie Dupont in Hainaut, I'm inclined to lean toward that profile as an indicator.  In the case of brewing a pale beer like a saison, the water would have to be pre-boiled in order to reduce the alkalinity to a reasonable value.  Bru'n Water assumes a very modest ending bicarbonate content of 80 ppm.  However I think that with proper procedure, a brewer could have actually got the bicarbonate down to 60 ppm without much problem.  Therefore, I recalculated the calcium content for the reduced bicarb.  The revised Henegouwen/Hainaut (boiled) profile is shown below.

Ca  30 ppm
Mg  17
Na  15
SO4  65
Cl  41
HCO3  60

Of particular note is that there is a modest amount of sulfate in the water.  This conforms to my findings that sulfate does help dry the finish of a beer and a saison must have a dry finish.  Don't listen to Dr. Chloride and eschew sulfate whenever noble hops are used in brewing.  Modest sulfate content is your road to saison success.
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 27, 2013, 08:29:28 am
My newest saison used a very similar profile in Bru'nWater and came out really good. Perfect profile for the style.
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: klickitat jim on July 27, 2013, 09:01:34 am
What Brun' Water 'Desired Water Profile' would be best for a Saison?

I see yso191 on my assignment sheet. Sorry I missed ya
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: yso191 on July 27, 2013, 09:30:15 am
What Brun' Water 'Desired Water Profile' would be best for a Saison?

I see yso191 on my assignment sheet. Sorry I missed ya

yeah, I was going to hassle you a bit.  Next time.
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: yso191 on July 27, 2013, 09:30:55 am
Thank you Martin!
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: narvin on July 27, 2013, 09:44:52 am
I like some hop presence in my Saisons, so I also favor the sulfate.  After a gypsum addition, this is what my water looks like:

57.9   Calcium (mg/l)   
8.0   Magnesium (mg/l)   
21.0   Sodium (mg/l)   
83.6   Sulfate (mg/l)   
48.0   Chloride (mg/l)   
59.0   Bicarbonate (mg/l) *   
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: breweite on July 27, 2013, 09:54:48 am
I like some hop presence in my Saisons, so I also favor the sulfate.  After a gypsum addition, this is what my water looks like:

57.9   Calcium (mg/l)   
8.0   Magnesium (mg/l)   
21.0   Sodium (mg/l)   
83.6   Sulfate (mg/l)   
48.0   Chloride (mg/l)   
59.0   Bicarbonate (mg/l) *

So does the gypsum go in before the mash, or after the mash? And is it desirable to use RO water and build because this seems pretty "light" vs my tap water?
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 27, 2013, 10:26:59 am
I like some hop presence in my Saisons, so I also favor the sulfate.  After a gypsum addition, this is what my water looks like:

57.9   Calcium (mg/l)   
8.0   Magnesium (mg/l)   
21.0   Sodium (mg/l)   
83.6   Sulfate (mg/l)   
48.0   Chloride (mg/l)   
59.0   Bicarbonate (mg/l) *

So does the gypsum go in before the mash, or after the mash? And is it desirable to use RO water and build because this seems pretty "light" vs my tap water?
I always use RO and build up with Bru'nWater. The consistency is spot on for me this way. I put it in the mash in this one.
Title: Re: Brun' Water Profile?
Post by: narvin on July 27, 2013, 03:00:30 pm
So does the gypsum go in before the mash, or after the mash? And is it desirable to use RO water and build because this seems pretty "light" vs my tap water?

I usually add the minerals proportionally to the mash ad the sparge water.  If you need to lower your mash pH even more, you can add all the salts to the mash.