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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: denny on August 02, 2013, 08:59:05 PM

Title: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 02, 2013, 08:59:05 PM
I'm getting ready to spiff up my system and one of the first things I want to do is add quick disconnects to my pump, tubing, and kettles.  So, polysulfone, brass, or SS?  Good sources?
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: garyg on August 02, 2013, 09:15:51 PM
It's about time you spent some money on that cheap 'n' easy brew system of yours!  ;)

I used to use the polysulfone quick disconnects, but I found they got brittle and started to break over time/usage.  Now I just use brass garden hose fittings with rubber gaskets for all of my connections.  Cheaper than brass or SS QDs and nearly as easy to use.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: snowtiger87 on August 02, 2013, 09:21:21 PM
I use polysulfone QD's but if I weren't so far into them I would go with the stainless stell QD's.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: oly on August 02, 2013, 09:22:31 PM
I started with polysulfone, the ones with the springy-things in them to seal off when you disconnect so nothing spills out.  At first I loved them, but soon found that the springy things just serve to clog up with hop (even when using a false bottom) during whirlpooling. Major PITA.  Eventually I drilled out the springy things so it's a straight shot through, and this solved the clogging problem. But then the liquid will spill everywhere when you disconnect; to solve this I put a quarter-turn stopcock just upstream of the disconnect. It works great now. A little wonky with the stopcocks in there, but it works.  There's probably a better solution for disconnecting and stopping flow so I'm hoping to see other responses here. But overall the polysulfone are just fine. Just keep some keg lube handy for the O-rings.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: thebigbaker on August 02, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
I almost went with poly, but decided to spend the extra money and got stainless camlocks.  Easy to use and easy to clean and they should last for ever.  I was going to order them from http://www.bargainfittings.com/ (http://www.bargainfittings.com/), but my LHBS had the for about the same price. 
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: mabrungard on August 02, 2013, 09:31:52 PM
I've been very happy with SST camlocks.  Mine came from Proflow Dynamics or Bargain Fittings. 

I use 1/2" barb fittings.  ID on the male barb fittings is kind of small and I thought they would restrict flow too much.  But I did what any good engineer would do and calculated the headlosses due to the small ID.  It turned out that it wasn't a big deal.  By the way, this is with a March 809HS pump. 
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 02, 2013, 09:32:44 PM
It's about time you spent some money on that cheap 'n' easy brew system of yours!  ;)

I used to use the polysulfone quick disconnects, but I found they got brittle and started to break over time/usage.  Now I just use brass garden hose fittings with rubber gaskets for all of my connections.  Cheaper than brass or SS QDs and nearly as easy to use.

I'm hoping I don't ruin my reputation!  Thanks, Gary.  I may try those before I spend more $$ on something else.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 02, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Thanks everyone!  I feel smarter already!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Titanium Brewing on August 02, 2013, 09:40:55 PM
This doesn't sound like the Cheap 'n' Easy Denny Conn we have all come to know.  ;)
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 02, 2013, 09:46:54 PM
This doesn't sound like the Cheap 'n' Easy Denny Conn we have all come to know.  ;)

It's the new "A Little Less Cheap 'n' Even Easier" Denny.   ;)
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: jeffy on August 02, 2013, 10:10:32 PM
I bought polysulphone fittings and in retrospect I should have gone with cam lock fittings.  No "O" rings and universal fit.  Plastic and heat don't last as long as I'd like and the o-rings are thin and fragile.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: jrozborski on August 02, 2013, 10:11:49 PM
I have used perhaps the simplest and cheapest method of QD's, a SS nipple, silicone hose and band clamp, with my handy dandy drill driver set up permanently with the right size socket.  Hoses on and off in seconds.  everything is interchangeable and robust.  KISS!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 02, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
I have used perhaps the simplest and cheapest method of QD's, a SS nipple, silicone hose and band clamp, with my handy dandy drill driver set up permanently with the right size socket.  Hoses on and off in seconds.  everything is interchangeable and robust.  KISS!

That's what I've been doing the last few years.  I want to try something else and see how I like it.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Jimmy K on August 03, 2013, 12:25:10 AM
I have stainless cam-lock disconnects from www.bargainfittings.com (http://www.bargainfittings.com).
They also have high temp plastic ones.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: realbeerguy on August 03, 2013, 01:13:58 AM
I use the brass qd's from Mc Master.  Part numbers available on Brews Bros site.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: majorvices on August 03, 2013, 03:23:01 AM
Nice thing about the polysulphone (or however the hell you spell it) is they don't conduct heat like the stainless. dam the stainless get HOT - like, permanent scarring hot. The polysulphone do wear out eventually though.

Obviously you really should just bit the bullet and go tri-clamp for the upgrade. ;)
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 03, 2013, 03:25:24 AM
Nice thing about the polysulphone (or however the hell you spell it) is they don't conduct heat like the stainless. dam the stainless get HOT - like, permanent scarring hot. They do wear out after a while though.

Obviously you really should just bit the bullet and go tri-clamp for the upgrade. ;)

 Dude, i'm trying to find a balance between something decent and the fact that I won't live long enough to really get the utility of top of the line stuff!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: majorvices on August 03, 2013, 03:27:45 AM
LOL! I really like the polysulphone QDCs. And don't die on me until I get to try that Wee Shroomy!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: millstone on August 03, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
Don't forget about aluminum, I have been using aluminum camlocks for the past 3 years with great success. Got them from proflowdynamics.com.

good luck with your up-grade

tom

p.s. what's next, a new SS braid  : )
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: thebigbaker on August 03, 2013, 01:15:42 PM
Whoa, those aluminum cam locks are a lot less expensive than the stainless.

Edit:  Millstone, I've heard that aluminum doesn't play well w/ hard cleaners, such as PBW, Oxiclean and Starsan.  Not sure if this is true or not, but have you had any issues using these cleaners with your aluminum cam locks?
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: jeffy on August 03, 2013, 01:44:24 PM
One thing I had to do with the poly fittings was to remove the cross piece of plastic inside with a cutting tool so they flow better and don't get clogged. 
Spraying the o-ring with some water or sanitizer helps the male/female go together easier, but I've had to keep a bunch of o-rings on hand because they are fairly small rubber diameter and are a little fragile.
The fittings don't get hot, so there is an advantage there.
As I said earlier I prefer cam locks.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 03, 2013, 04:24:57 PM
p.s. what's next, a new SS braid  : )

Hey. man, I'm not gonna go crazy with this!  ;)
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: mabrungard on August 03, 2013, 05:51:00 PM
Whoa, those aluminum cam locks are a lot less expensive than the stainless.

Edit:  Millstone, I've heard that aluminum doesn't play well w/ hard cleaners, such as PBW, Oxiclean and Starsan.  Not sure if this is true or not, but have you had any issues using these cleaners with your aluminum cam locks?

Jeremy, you make a good point about aluminum and cleaners.  However, I rarely use cleaners in my hot-side equipment.  But I do use StarSan when prepping the system to chill wort.  I could imagine that the Al cam locks would eventually suffer more than the SST version.  Strong acids and caustics are rough on Al. 

I should echo a comment made previously.  I too, do not use cam lock connections on my suction side circuits.  I only use barbs and hose clamps since I'm fearful of tiny air leaks that might drive me crazy.  So far, I've been able to tighten up a hose clamp if I have a suction air leak, but there is little that I would be able to do if a cam lock coupling had a suction leak.  That is the one area that I gave up quick connects. 
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: millstone on August 04, 2013, 12:01:16 PM
Whoa, those aluminum cam locks are a lot less expensive than the stainless.

Edit:  Millstone, I've heard that aluminum doesn't play well w/ hard cleaners, such as PBW, Oxiclean and Starsan.  Not sure if this is true or not, but have you had any issues using these cleaners with your aluminum cam locks?

I do use all three chemicals in my setup, I also have an aluminum 15 gal HLT and a 20 gal BK along with those aluminum camlocks. When the brew day finishes I pump either Oxi or PBW through all pots and lines, with camlocks attached, for about 30 minutes. I do not do long soaks, hours, with the chemicals. The camlocks don't show any deterioration or pitting, still has some of its shine, not that dull look like the inside of an aluminum pot. I did change out the rubber washer that came with them to silicone O rings from oringsandmore.com, nice fit and no leaks.

tom
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on August 06, 2013, 04:46:33 PM
Nice thing about the polysulphone (or however the hell you spell it) is they don't conduct heat like the stainless. dam the stainless get HOT - like, permanent scarring hot. They do wear out after a while though.

Obviously you really should just bit the bullet and go tri-clamp for the upgrade. ;)

 Dude, i'm trying to find a balance between something decent and the fact that I won't live long enough to really get the utility of top of the line stuff!

I like my stainless camlocks and haven't had any issues with getting burned or anything. About my only complaint is they can be a little tricky to lock down, especially if the seal in the female ends is cold. The cam portion of the locks rubs metal to metal when you lock them down and I would image the aluminum version would suffer from galling over time. It's really nice having pre-terminated hoses like the pros use. Just soak in PBW or Starsan when necessary and go.

Think of the stainless you buy as heirloom quality goods. It's going to outlast all of us!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: denny on August 06, 2013, 04:51:41 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Stevie on August 06, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!

From what I have seen, people tended to use the female on the hose side and the male on the connector side. Basically treat the male like a hose barb.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: garyg on August 06, 2013, 05:20:33 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!

The female connectors tend to be more expensive, so put those where ever you will need the least of that type of connection.  In my case, I connect my pump to HLT, MT, kettle, immersion chiller whirl pool thingy (thanks Jamil!), so it makes more sense to put two female connectors on my pump hoses and male connectors everywhere else.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Jimmy K on August 06, 2013, 05:30:17 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!
I put male ends on kettles since the female side contains a rubber gasket and the cam levers that you must squeeze with your hand to lock it. I want both of those away from the flame.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Stevie on August 06, 2013, 05:41:38 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!

The female connectors tend to be more expensive, so put those where ever you will need the least of that type of connection.  In my case, I connect my pump to HLT, MT, kettle, immersion chiller whirl pool thingy (thanks Jamil!), so it makes more sense to put two female connectors on my pump hoses and male connectors everywhere else.

Smart!
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: morticaixavier on August 06, 2013, 05:59:35 PM
Whoa, those aluminum cam locks are a lot less expensive than the stainless.

Edit:  Millstone, I've heard that aluminum doesn't play well w/ hard cleaners, such as PBW, Oxiclean and Starsan.  Not sure if this is true or not, but have you had any issues using these cleaners with your aluminum cam locks?

I do use all three chemicals in my setup, I also have an aluminum 15 gal HLT and a 20 gal BK along with those aluminum camlocks. When the brew day finishes I pump either Oxi or PBW through all pots and lines, with camlocks attached, for about 30 minutes. I do not do long soaks, hours, with the chemicals. The camlocks don't show any deterioration or pitting, still has some of its shine, not that dull look like the inside of an aluminum pot. I did change out the rubber washer that came with them to silicone O rings from oringsandmore.com, nice fit and no leaks.

tom

I could well be wrong but I am pretty sure that the dull look of the inside of an aluminum pot is the passivation layer and is actually protecting the pot from reactive agents. on any contact surface you want that dull finish.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on August 06, 2013, 06:11:18 PM
Next question...do you use females on the kettle and tun and males on the hoses, or vice versa?  Edumacate me!
I put male ends on kettles since the female side contains a rubber gasket and the cam levers that you must squeeze with your hand to lock it. I want both of those away from the flame.

Good call!

I have it the other way and put male ends on the hoses and females on the BK and HLT respectively.
Why? I guess I went with anatomical logic. Hose = male. Put male ends on the hoses!
Really I didn't think about it more intently but your answer makes more sense.

That said, I haven't had a problem getting burned on the camlocks yet, but it probably depends on your burner stands and vessels. I can see it being an issue with a flat bottom pot like my HLT since the ball valve is so low but it still hasn't happened for me. It's way out there on the end of my ball valve.
My BK is a keggle so it doesn't get hot enough to bother me and never sees flamage.

Most of the high heat through the camlocks for me has been when handling them after sparging because I switch one of my hoses connected to the pump from the HLT to the BK to recirculate and sometimes I do that too soon after sparge is done. Don't need to but have done it and they are hot enough to be noticeable, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: jeffy on August 06, 2013, 08:09:17 PM
The female poly fittings have a release button.  It is easier to have that on the hose so you can attach and detach with one hand.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: mabrungard on August 06, 2013, 08:11:43 PM
I too put the female fittings on the hoses with the male fittings on the equipment. 
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: millstone on August 07, 2013, 12:01:43 PM
Whoa, those aluminum cam locks are a lot less expensive than the stainless.

Edit:  Millstone, I've heard that aluminum doesn't play well w/ hard cleaners, such as PBW, Oxiclean and Starsan.  Not sure if this is true or not, but have you had any issues using these cleaners with your aluminum cam locks?

I do use all three chemicals in my setup, I also have an aluminum 15 gal HLT and a 20 gal BK along with those aluminum camlocks. When the brew day finishes I pump either Oxi or PBW through all pots and lines, with camlocks attached, for about 30 minutes. I do not do long soaks, hours, with the chemicals. The camlocks don't show any deterioration or pitting, still has some of its shine, not that dull look like the inside of an aluminum pot. I did change out the rubber washer that came with them to silicone O rings from oringsandmore.com, nice fit and no leaks.

tom

I could well be wrong but I am pretty sure that the dull look of the inside of an aluminum pot is the passivation layer and is actually protecting the pot from reactive agents. on any contact surface you want that dull finish.

The statement about the inside of the pot was meant to show that the aluminum camlocks still had some shine to them and not a dingy, dirty, scrap yard look.
I also have the female connectors on the hoses.

tom
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: TrippleRippleBrewer on August 07, 2013, 05:25:07 PM
Don't forget about aluminum, I have been using aluminum camlocks for the past 3 years with great success. Got them from proflowdynamics.com.

good luck with your up-grade

tom

p.s. what's next, a new SS braid  : )

Outside of the obviously higher cost and therefore likely larger margins, I'm curious why Proflowdynamics.com catagorizes the SS camlocks as "Home Brew" camlocks and the AL models not?

Honestly if I'd known about them beforehand, I would have tried the AL version. They are a lot less money and if they work well, then that's the way to go.
I bought mine from a LHBS Adventures in Homebrewing in MI and they only carried the SS version.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: yugamrap on August 07, 2013, 06:06:27 PM
I have the brass high-temperature coolant QDs from McMaster-Carr.  I use them with a March 809 pump, and they work fine.  I like them because I only need one hand to connect/disconnect.  I have the males on vessels and my WIC recirculation, and right-angle females on my two hoses.  I wear a leather glove when I handle the hot fittings and have been fine so far.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: dcbc on August 09, 2013, 04:32:42 PM
Having used both polysulfone and the stainless camlocks, definitely go for the ss camlocks.  Male on the pots and pumps, female on the hoses.  The only advantage of the polysulfone QDs is the lack of heat transfer.  Brewhardware has some female camlocks with wider nipples now if you have flow concerns.  I have only had mine back up once in over a year or so of use.  So probably a nonissue. 

I switched after I melted one of my polysulfone male QDs. 
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: Jimmy K on August 13, 2013, 12:52:34 AM
Polysulfone is probably a very bad choice on a brew kettle.
Title: Re: Pump disconnects
Post by: gmwren on August 13, 2013, 01:54:23 AM
Polysulfone is probably a very bad choice on a brew kettle.

They work very well.