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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Dbbrewing on March 14, 2010, 03:58:21 PM

Title: BIAB
Post by: Dbbrewing on March 14, 2010, 03:58:21 PM
I am trying the Brew in a Bag for the 1st time, brewing up a Chocolate Peanut Butter Porter. I am an all grain brewer and brew on a 3 tier setup but it is a pain to take to our clubs group brews so I thought that I would give the BIAB a chance and see how it goes using just my keggle, and if it works out I will cut down on all the crap I have to lug to the group brew days.
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Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: dharvey513 on March 14, 2010, 04:13:31 PM
Wow, I have to research how to do that.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: denny on March 14, 2010, 05:12:56 PM
I hope to include BIAB in the talk I'm giving at NHC this summer.  I've never tried it, so I'd appreciate hearing about technique and results from anyone who's used it.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Dbbrewing on March 14, 2010, 06:24:03 PM
Well I over shot my pre boil volume by 1  1/2 gallons so I had to do a 2 hour boil, but man is is alot easier than using the MT and HLT and transfering all the liquid around. So now on my next batch I will adjust my water by about 1 1/2 gallons, I  thought that I accounted for the dead space in the MT and grain absorption(it was a lot less because you let the bag drain) but I guess I didn't. 
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: euge on March 15, 2010, 04:42:33 PM
How difficult is it to lift this bag out of the wort? How big of a batch?
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Kaiser on March 15, 2010, 05:54:28 PM
I hope to include BIAB in the talk I'm giving at NHC this summer.  I've never tried it, so I'd appreciate hearing about technique and results from anyone who's used it.

You should give it a try.

I mean to try it as well at some point but not before the HNC.

Kai
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: denny on March 15, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
I hope to include BIAB in the talk I'm giving at NHC this summer.  I've never tried it, so I'd appreciate hearing about technique and results from anyone who's used it.

You should give it a try.

I mean to try it as well at some point but not before the HNC.

Kai

Yeah, I should and I intend to.  I just don't know if I'll have time before NHC, either.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: glitterbug on March 15, 2010, 08:16:54 PM
I'm in the final stages of getting my biab setup going. I'll be sure to post some info once it is done

You can do a small batch like this guy to try it out: http://brewing.lustreking.com/articles/stovetopallgrain.html
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Dbbrewing on March 16, 2010, 12:53:37 AM
How difficult is it to lift this bag out of the wort? How big of a batch?

I did a 6 gallon batch with 16# of grain and it was not bad getting the bag out of the keggle but it was a little messy, so once I got the bag out I let it drain into a 5 gallon bucket and then put the wort back into the brew pot. The only other difficult part of this was making sure all the grain was wet and no dough balls, it is alittle hard to tell if there is any dry spots.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: euge on March 16, 2010, 06:58:54 AM
Seems a little unwieldy to me. That's my main concern- deadlifting a steaming hot ball of grain out of scalding wort at arm's length like a humongous tea-bag.  :o

A hoist comes to mind.

Dbbfrewing, do you think it is worth doing on a regular basis?
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Dbbrewing on March 16, 2010, 10:59:31 AM
Seems a little unwieldy to me. That's my main concern- deadlifting a steaming hot ball of grain out of scalding wort at arm's length like a humongous tea-bag.  :o

A hoist comes to mind.

Dbbfrewing, do you think it is worth doing on a regular basis?

This was the 1st time I did it, so I plan on using the BIAB method again. Our club has a group brew on the 27th so I plan on trying this again and see how it works again. I never touched the hot part of the bag just the top( it was the largest grain bag that the LHBS has like 18" X 32") and had the mash spoon under it.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: brewboy on March 16, 2010, 12:19:26 PM
Denny, do you want to borrow my engine hoist?  ;D
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: abraxas on March 16, 2010, 12:44:05 PM
This was the 1st time I did it, so I plan on using the BIAB method again.

Did you check to see what kind of efficiency you got?

I have a 7 gallon and a 4 gallon brew pot, I figure using the second pot for a BIAB sparge I should be able to get 70%+ efficiency.  With two pots I would be able to use two burners on the stove to get my wort up to temp for winter indoor brewing.  Additionally grains would be more manageable and I wouldn't have to clean my lauter tun which can be a pain in the ass over the sink.

The only major downside I see is getting too many solids (protein, grain powder etc) in the wort that would be filtered through a set grain bed.  That and larger beers would require a good size rig for draining the bag.

Actually as I think about it, a custom lauter tun shaped strainer bag would save a little bit of cleanup time...

Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Kaiser on March 16, 2010, 01:57:08 PM
Chances are you'll get 70-80% efficiency even w/o the sparge step.

Kai
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: dean on March 16, 2010, 02:19:12 PM
What bag or material is being used?  Its amazing how the wheels of progress turn so slowly sometimes, a year or two ago the Aussie's did this and everybody sorta scoffed at it.  They were also doing grain conditioning long before it was considered by homebrewers in the US.  I think when they first started mentioning BIAB, a guy had a site showing the bag he used and it was some sort of curtain material like you would find in the sewing or craft department stores and they sewed their own bags?  Is there something else out there available, even large bags made of very fine woven material?  Perhaps the large fine mesh bags offered on some of the sites like NB are fine and strong enough.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: glitterbug on March 16, 2010, 02:40:03 PM
What bag or material is being used?  Its amazing how the wheels of progress turn so slowly sometimes, a year or two ago the Aussie's did this and everybody sorta scoffed at it.  They were also doing grain conditioning long before it was considered by homebrewers in the US.  I think when they first started mentioning BIAB, a guy had a site showing the bag he used and it was some sort of curtain material like you would find in the sewing or craft department stores and they sewed their own bags?  Is there something else out there available, even large bags made of very fine woven material?  Perhaps the large fine mesh bags offered on some of the sites like NB are fine and strong enough.

This is a really good thread for biab info: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4650

I got my fabric at a fabric store, it is called "swiss voile" or similar for about $10.

In addition to biab, the Australians have also pioneered the "no chill" method. You basically transfer the wort into a "jerry can" or other suitable container right after the boil without chilling. You would let wort cool overnight and pitch the next day. Some of them even store the wort and pitch several weeks or months later.

I think that biab + nochill would really save time and would greatly reduce the equipment required to move to AG. Most of the "potential problems" have already been debunked on various forums and many of the naysayers have no real experience with these "new" methods.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: denny on March 16, 2010, 03:49:13 PM
Denny, do you want to borrow my engine hoist?  ;D

Thanks anyway, David, but I think I'll just do a small batch...like maybe a 16 oz. batch!  ;)
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: brewboy on March 16, 2010, 07:13:17 PM
Denny, do you want to borrow my engine hoist?  ;D

Thanks anyway, David, but I think I'll just do a small batch...like maybe a 16 oz. batch!  ;)

OK but you'll never make into the Tim the Toolman Taylor Club like that.  :-\
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: dean on March 16, 2010, 11:15:21 PM
What bag or material is being used?  Its amazing how the wheels of progress turn so slowly sometimes, a year or two ago the Aussie's did this and everybody sorta scoffed at it.  They were also doing grain conditioning long before it was considered by homebrewers in the US.  I think when they first started mentioning BIAB, a guy had a site showing the bag he used and it was some sort of curtain material like you would find in the sewing or craft department stores and they sewed their own bags?  Is there something else out there available, even large bags made of very fine woven material?  Perhaps the large fine mesh bags offered on some of the sites like NB are fine and strong enough.

This is a really good thread for biab info: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4650

I got my fabric at a fabric store, it is called "swiss voile" or similar for about $10.

In addition to biab, the Australians have also pioneered the "no chill" method. You basically transfer the wort into a "jerry can" or other suitable container right after the boil without chilling. You would let wort cool overnight and pitch the next day. Some of them even store the wort and pitch several weeks or months later.

I think that biab + nochill would really save time and would greatly reduce the equipment required to move to AG. Most of the "potential problems" have already been debunked on various forums and many of the naysayers have no real experience with these "new" methods.

I've been experimenting with the no-chill and it seems to work fine for me, you can even see the break material at the bottom.  I don't transfer from the BK... just leave it there to chill overnight.  Is the swiss voile priced at $10 per yard or is that to make the entire bag?
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: euge on March 17, 2010, 05:43:27 AM
dean-

Doesn't that defeat the purpose leaving it there in the BK? My understanding is that the scalding wort sanitizes the fermenter/container first. I've wondered about if this actually matters. Confidence in one's sanitation and then a huge pitch of yeast and it would be OK?

Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: dean on March 17, 2010, 12:59:25 PM
I just sanitize my carboys before I transfer, so its the same ending.  But you gave me an idea, maybe my BK could double up as a fermenter as well.  I've got enough kegs where it shouldn't be all that difficult to try it.   Thanks for the idea!  :)
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: denny on March 17, 2010, 03:25:52 PM
I just sanitize my carboys before I transfer, so its the same ending.  But you gave me an idea, maybe my BK could double up as a fermenter as well.  I've got enough kegs where it shouldn't be all that difficult to try it.   Thanks for the idea!  :)

someone (maybe Jeff Renner?) wrote in HBD years ago about using the BK as a fermenter and just pitching yeast right into it.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: monk on March 17, 2010, 07:02:31 PM
Question about the no-chill method:

If I were to immediately dump my wort into the fermenting bucket and leave to chill overnight, wouldn't the chilling wort suck in air that might contaminate? 

I'm sure someone else has already thought of this, but I'm curious as to how they solve the problem, or whether it's a problem.

monk
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: Hokerer on March 17, 2010, 08:20:46 PM
Question about the no-chill method:

If I were to immediately dump my wort into the fermenting bucket and leave to chill overnight, wouldn't the chilling wort suck in air that might contaminate? 

I'm sure someone else has already thought of this, but I'm curious as to how they solve the problem, or whether it's a problem.

monk

If I remember correctly, when they do BIAB, they dump the hot wort into a "jerrycan".  It's basically a container that they can fill to the very top so there is no air left and then they put screw on the lid that makes a tight seal.  That way no air comes in as it cools. 

Once it's cool, they can then transfer it to the fermenter.
Title: Re: BIAB
Post by: glitterbug on March 17, 2010, 10:18:09 PM
Question about the no-chill method:

If I were to immediately dump my wort into the fermenting bucket and leave to chill overnight, wouldn't the chilling wort suck in air that might contaminate? 

I'm sure someone else has already thought of this, but I'm curious as to how they solve the problem, or whether it's a problem.

monk

Don't dump boiling wort into the plastic fermenting bucket. I believe it will warp it. You will want to use a "jerry can" as hokerer suggested or a winpack container from US plastics. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-winpak-fermenter-160044/

I'm still not convinced that HDPE is safe at high temps. I think the FDA recommends 180f or below.

I have been looking for info on nochilling in a corny and most people seem to think hitting it with some co2 to maintain the seal will keep the bugs out. Unfortunately, I don't keg so I don't have a co2 source. I will probably try without it and see how it works soon.