Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Kegging and Bottling => Topic started by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 02:26:57 PM

Title: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 02:26:57 PM
Ok, I'm very new to kegging and actually haven't used a corny yet. So I have a mine question. I don't have my keezer set up... Still lacking the perfect freezer (7.5 cubic foot are hard to find). But I plan brewing a winter warmer pretty soon, and I want to store/age it in the keg. My question is, do I want to prime it before storing, or wait until it's time to serve it?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: duboman on August 17, 2013, 02:46:07 PM
I'm a total noob at this keg thing as well so take this for what it's worth and I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

If by prime you mean naturally carb and condition you would first purge the keg with CO2, then rack over 1/3 less the amount of priming sugar you would use for bottling. Once racked, seat the lid with about 20psi of CO2 and clamp it down.

In this state the keg can sit indefinitely. If not naturally carbing, you want the beer at serving temp, force carb it and again it can sit, I believe.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2013, 02:47:45 PM
If you naturally carb in keg then now is fine. You will need it to be cold to force carb it.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: duboman on August 17, 2013, 03:18:33 PM

Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Correct, just be sure to purge the keg with CO2 to remove any traces if O2
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 03:21:44 PM

Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Correct, just be sure to purge the keg with CO2 to remove any traces if O2

That's another question. Does that happen before adding beer? After? Or both?
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: gymrat on August 17, 2013, 03:26:53 PM
I used to shoot my kegs with 10lbs of CO2 just to prevent oxidation or any infections then leave em sit until ready to put in the kegerator. But lately I have been adding 2oz of sugar then shooting with 10lbs of CO2 before storing them. That way as soon as I have them chilled they are ready to serve.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: denny on August 17, 2013, 03:32:19 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: denny on August 17, 2013, 03:33:47 PM

Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Correct, just be sure to purge the keg with CO2 to remove any traces if O2

That's another question. Does that happen before adding beer? After? Or both?

I do it after.  I assume the beer will push out any air that's in there so all I need to do is purge the headspace.  Even if that assumption is wrong, I don't suffer from oxidation so the process must be OK.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 03:57:27 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.

Makes sense. I serve out of a sanke now. I usually run 8-9 psi cold, so I would assume that would be an ok amount for long term storage warm since cold absorbs more CO2, so they won't be over-carbed.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on August 17, 2013, 03:58:54 PM

Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Correct, just be sure to purge the keg with CO2 to remove any traces if O2

That's another question. Does that happen before adding beer? After? Or both?

I do it after.  I assume the beer will push out any air that's in there so all I need to do is purge the headspace.  Even if that assumption is wrong, I don't suffer from oxidation so the process must be OK.

This also makes sense. I would think this would be good enough but just wanted to make sure. Thanks!
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 17, 2013, 04:22:17 PM

Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Correct, just be sure to purge the keg with CO2 to remove any traces if O2

That's another question. Does that happen before adding beer? After? Or both?

I do it after.  I assume the beer will push out any air that's in there so all I need to do is purge the headspace.  Even if that assumption is wrong, I don't suffer from oxidation so the process must be OK.
+1.  Same here.  I purge with CO2 before for hoppy beers to help preserve hop aromas and then after filling the keg, but otherwise I do it after.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: jeffy on August 17, 2013, 09:01:18 PM
If you won't be serving it until winter and you won't be refrigerating the keg, then it would make sense to prime it with some sugar to cut down on oxidation.  Add sugar and enough pressure to seal the keg and check it occasionally for carbonation.  The fermentation will scavenge the O2 while it carbonates.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: thebigbaker on August 17, 2013, 10:33:10 PM
If you won't be serving it until winter and you won't be refrigerating the keg, then it would make sense to prime it with some sugar to cut down on oxidation.  Add sugar and enough pressure to seal the keg and check it occasionally for carbonation.  The fermentation will scavenge the O2 while it carbonates.

I could be wrong, but do you really need to add sugar to cut down on oxidation.  If you rack to the keg then purge w/ CO2 then there shouldn't be any worries regarding oxidation right?  I just put a winter warmer in a keg to age for the first time and did it this way w/out any sugar.  I'll put it in the fridge and force carb in December.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: The Professor on August 17, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.

Same here, especially since serving temps for a few of the beers I regularly is 55-60°F.  So you can definitely force carb at room or cellar temps...it may take longer (if you don't to the "pressurize and shake" thing), but it does work.
I actually prefer it to 'natural' carbing.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: gmac on August 18, 2013, 01:12:47 AM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.
What do you do the other 1 %? 
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: jeffy on August 18, 2013, 03:18:32 AM
If you won't be serving it until winter and you won't be refrigerating the keg, then it would make sense to prime it with some sugar to cut down on oxidation.  Add sugar and enough pressure to seal the keg and check it occasionally for carbonation.  The fermentation will scavenge the O2 while it carbonates.

I could be wrong, but do you really need to add sugar to cut down on oxidation.  If you rack to the keg then purge w/ CO2 then there shouldn't be any worries regarding oxidation right?  I just put a winter warmer in a keg to age for the first time and did it this way w/out any sugar.  I'll put it in the fridge and force carb in December.

It's because it is hard to get all the O2 out of the keg, but the yeast eating the sugar will consume it.  Ever notice that bottle-conditioned beers stay fresh longer than counter-pressure filled bottles?  Even though I don't ever leave kegs sitting around for any long periods of time, I thought this was a good idea to circumvent staling.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: mugwort on August 18, 2013, 03:44:53 AM
If you won't be serving it until winter and you won't be refrigerating the keg, then it would make sense to prime it with some sugar to cut down on oxidation.  Add sugar and enough pressure to seal the keg and check it occasionally for carbonation.  The fermentation will scavenge the O2 while it carbonates.

I could be wrong, but do you really need to add sugar to cut down on oxidation.  If you rack to the keg then purge w/ CO2 then there shouldn't be any worries regarding oxidation right?  I just put a winter warmer in a keg to age for the first time and did it this way w/out any sugar.  I'll put it in the fridge and force carb in December.

It's because it is hard to get all the O2 out of the keg, but the yeast eating the sugar will consume it.  Ever notice that bottle-conditioned beers stay fresh longer than counter-pressure filled bottles?  Even though I don't ever leave kegs sitting around for any long periods of time, I thought this was a good idea to circumvent staling.

Amen to refermentation for long-lived brews!
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 18, 2013, 01:08:52 PM
When one gets really geeky about minimizing O2, one can fill a keg with sanitizer solution so that all the O2 is displaced. Then push the sanitizer out with CO2, so that you have a keg full of CO2. Then one can rack into the keg via the liquid out post. Also make sure the racking cane and tubing is full of beer, not air when you start, and that can be done by hooking up to a second empty keg until beer is flowing.

Tedious, but effective.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: denny on August 18, 2013, 04:12:17 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.
What do you do the other 1 %?

I chill it before I take it out and carb it.  Due to space limitation, I don't have CO2 run into my serving fridge.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: mugwort on August 18, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
Sorry. I will be force carbing. So I keg it now, I put it in the keezer and get it to serving temp in December, andd then carb?

Actually, you can carb it now of you want to, and you can even carb it warm.  I do that 99% of the time.
What do you do the other 1 %?

I chill it before I take it out and carb it.  Due to space limitation, I don't have CO2 run into my serving fridge.

I for one was concerned that the 1% were getting too much special treatment.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on October 12, 2013, 04:14:57 PM
So is 10 psi good to store a beer in a corny at 65ish degrees? Or should I go higher?
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: denny on October 12, 2013, 04:16:02 PM
So is 10 psi good to store a beer in a corny at 65ish degrees? Or should I go higher?

Doesn't really matter.  Just be sure the lid is sealed, and 10 psi should do that.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: yso191 on October 12, 2013, 04:36:33 PM
So is 10 psi good to store a beer in a corny at 65ish degrees? Or should I go higher?

That will work for a while.  Then the beer will absorb the CO2 and the head pressure will equalize.  It probably isn't an issue unless you're OCD like me.  I want to keep constant positive pressure on the inside to make sure the keg stays sealed.  Which means that I come along with my CO2 and give it a 15-20 lb. shot once a day.  That way it is carbonating while it is just sitting.  And yes, if I don't need the CO2 elsewhere, I just leave it hooked up at the pressure it needs to carb to the right level.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: Joe Sr. on October 12, 2013, 10:58:04 PM
So is 10 psi good to store a beer in a corny at 65ish degrees? Or should I go higher?

Doesn't really matter.  Just be sure the lid is sealed, and 10 psi should do that.

I've always thought you needed more than 10 psi to seat the lid well.  But I could be wrong.

If I'm storing kegs I hit them at about 30 psi to seat the lid.  Of course, if the seal is bad they still leak at whatever pressure you hit them with...
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 12, 2013, 11:21:04 PM
I read an article somewhere that said that a steady pressure of ~ 9 psi is enough to keep the lid seated, and that less would obviously let the beer go flat.  I wish I could remember who wrote it.  As said, a bad /old seal
wouldn't seal well regardless.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on October 12, 2013, 11:34:10 PM
Ok, good to know guys. I bought all new gasket sets for my cornies. I replaced them all on this one. I plan on kegging it Monday. I'll just hit with 20+ish psi. Sorry if these questions seem silly. I'm totally new to the kegging game. This probably will never be an issue in the future. My keezer isn't built yet, although I have everything but the lumber. Once it's built, kegs will just go in and tapped.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 12, 2013, 11:39:58 PM
Not silly at all Frank.  It's a very different process from bottling. You'll be glad you made the jump !
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on October 12, 2013, 11:49:29 PM
Not silly at all Frank.  It's a very different process from bottling. You'll be glad you made the jump !

I basically did it to have my own beer on tap at my wedding next May. So we're going to have it up and running for our Christmas party with the Pumpkin Saison (Zymurgy recipe), a spruce ale, a winter warmer of sort, and my Red-Nosed IPA. I actually had the IPA on tap last Christmas in my 1/8 sanke keg.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 12, 2013, 11:52:25 PM
Sounds like a winner.  It's fun to have more than one on tap.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: Jeff M on October 13, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Sounds like a winner.  It's fun to have more than one on tap.

How could more then one tap be fun????? i have a hard enough time picking between 2 of my homebrews, let alone 4!
;)
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on October 15, 2013, 12:02:52 AM
Ok, the beer kegged and hit it with 22 psi. I left it on for about 5 minutes and removed the disconnect. Is this sufficient? Also, sure as hell beats bottling lol.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: Joe Sr. on October 15, 2013, 01:48:40 AM
It's sufficient to seal the keg. It will not carbonate though. You would need to leave the gas hooked up for longer to carbonate.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: fmader on October 15, 2013, 02:55:45 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't think it would carb it. When I have time to build my keezer here in a month, it will be hooked up for good.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: klickitat jim on October 15, 2013, 05:10:21 AM
Why not leave it on and get it carbed? I figure a week at whatever pressure per temp for volume desired.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: ppbrewclub on October 24, 2013, 02:49:25 PM
My first kegging (corny keg) of 5 gals of an extract kit pale ale from NB:

1.) Corny was a tertiary racking (Primary, Secondary, then kegged)
2.) Added 5 o of priming sugar
3.) Stored room tempy for 3 weeks

Then I finally got the CO2 system (5lb tank, dual regulator)
Hooked it up to the corny, added about 10lb pressure
Went to pull my first glass, immediately and KABOOOSH!

So.  What'd I miss?   Lots of beer wasted as I didn't know about the pressure releif valve (actually, my keg doesn't have one, but the pin lock I could have released it -be careful here too - I just depressed the pin with a screwdriver and again - KABOOOSH!)
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: morticaixavier on October 24, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
My first kegging (corny keg) of 5 gals of an extract kit pale ale from NB:

1.) Corny was a tertiary racking (Primary, Secondary, then kegged)
2.) Added 5 o of priming sugar
3.) Stored room tempy for 3 weeks

Then I finally got the CO2 system (5lb tank, dual regulator)
Hooked it up to the corny, added about 10lb pressure
Went to pull my first glass, immediately and KABOOOSH!

So.  What'd I miss?   Lots of beer wasted as I didn't know about the pressure releif valve (actually, my keg doesn't have one, but the pin lock I could have released it -be careful here too - I just depressed the pin with a screwdriver and again - KABOOOSH!)

did you give it time to chill?

5 oz for 5 gallons is a lot to start with. I am guessing that you didn't hear any gas going in when you hooked up 10 psi.

on the pin lock pressure release, are you sure you depressed the gas in poppet and not the beer out? if you are sure I suspect that you had a keg full of foam from pulling that first glass (and reducing the pressure inside)

How long is your serving line? if you calculate the pressure inside that keg after 5 oz of priming sugar and at room temp I am guess it was around 20-30 psi which would want a very long serving hose indeed.
Title: Re: Storing beer in a corny
Post by: ppbrewclub on October 24, 2013, 03:39:36 PM
did not allow it to cool.  I thought that I'd get the first glass to throw out as most of anything left that settled would come out. 

When I finally figured out releasing pressure slowly you could actually see the hose size decrease.  Fun experiement, good story, gor me to sign up for AHA to be a lurker.