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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 03:28:38 PM

Title: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 03:28:38 PM
My new conical came with first time cleaning instructions. They say to clean inside and out with a grease cutting soap. Would dish soap work for that? I don't think oxyclean cuts grease. Then it says to use Bar Keepers Friend as my cleaner. This has Oxalic Acid which passifies my kettle. Again would oxyclean or PBW passify my Conical?
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: denny on August 28, 2013, 03:47:29 PM
AFAIK, neither Oxi or PBW will passivate.  I've always heard that BKF will, but there's been some debate about it.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 28, 2013, 03:48:25 PM
According to Palmer, Barkeepers Friend does a deep cleaning. O2 from air passifies almost instantly.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 03:53:49 PM
Is it really necessary to passify stainless steel?
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: morticaixavier on August 28, 2013, 03:54:35 PM
Is it really necessary to passify stainless steel?

it can get pretty rowdy
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
I was hoping to fill it this weekend. I guess that won't be happening  :( It appears to take a week to passify.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 28, 2013, 04:29:21 PM
Where do you get the one week time frame?  That doesn't sound correct to me, though I am not an expert.

I was under the impression that it passivates pretty quickly, as Jeff states above.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 04:50:09 PM
I read it on one of the sites I googled. Stout tanks just called me and told me it would be OK to use the thing 1 time before passifying it. But I just ran out and bought some bar keepers friend. If it passifies quickly I may go ahead and use that stuff now just to be on the safe side. I will disassemble my ball valves and passify those after my first use.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 28, 2013, 04:52:43 PM
After I posted I saw on Stout Tanks website that they say to wait a week.

I'd go with whatever they tell you rather than trust me.  I've made the mistake of trusting me before.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 05:51:02 PM
I just went over it with barkeepers friend. They returned my call and told me I could use it one time before I passify it. So I will just clean it with barkeepers friend again after my first use.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 28, 2013, 06:03:37 PM
Along with being a really nice guy, John is a Metallurgical Engineer, so he might now something about it.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB-1.html





Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: denny on August 28, 2013, 06:08:03 PM
Along with being a really nice guy, John is a Metallurgical Engineer, so he might now something about it.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB-1.html

So the BKF is that oxalic acid based cleaner you use to get the SS to passivate itself....
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 06:20:04 PM
That was really helpful. I just cleaned with BKF but used paper towels rather than scouring pads. After my first use I will do it again but use the pads this time.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 28, 2013, 06:34:22 PM
Along with being a really nice guy, John is a Metallurgical Engineer, so he might now something about it.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB-1.html

That's the info I read when I was looking at some kegs with rust on the inside. Couldn't find it earlier today.  Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 28, 2013, 07:13:02 PM
A blue or green scrubbie is recommended by most.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 28, 2013, 08:18:45 PM
Thankyou
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 28, 2013, 08:54:16 PM
Along with being a really nice guy, John is a Metallurgical Engineer, so he might now something about it.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB-1.html

So the BKF is that oxalic acid based cleaner you use to get the SS to passivate itself....

Yep - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Keepers_Friend
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 29, 2013, 02:39:29 PM
A blue or green scrubbie is recommended by most.

I was just reading the directions that came with my conical. It said to use blue scrubbies but avoid the green ones.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 29, 2013, 05:00:45 PM
A blue or green scrubbie is recommended by most.

I was just reading the directions that came with my conical. It said to use blue scrubbies but avoid the green ones.
Blue are the softer of the 2, and will be easier on the Chromium Oxide layer.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: tomsawyer on August 29, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
Is it really necessary to passify stainless steel?

it can get pretty rowdy
My conical keeps me up at night all the time.  If only I'd known about passivating.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 29, 2013, 05:50:09 PM
Is it really necessary to passify stainless steel?

it can get pretty rowdy
My conical keeps me up at night all the time.  If only I'd known about passivating.

It must have colic
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: tomsawyer on August 29, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
I'll try giving it a Brewhemoth binky.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 30, 2013, 04:54:30 PM
Here it is

(https://sphotos-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1002197_239142136235743_1631132224_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1150393_239142166235740_992736010_n.jpg)

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll171/homersimpson_album/IMG_9509_zps9b630161.jpg)

Here it is all put together sitting in it's new spot in my man cave. Now Ralph's Pub and Brew looks like a real brew pub.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll171/homersimpson_album/IMG_9507_zpsef0fecee.jpg)

Instead of a #7 stopper with an air lock I am going to attach a hose to the barb that is there for attaching the CO2 and run that to a bucket with a gallon of starsan in it.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: tomsawyer on August 30, 2013, 05:17:50 PM
Nice looking rig, she should serve you well.  Nice brewdog too.  And I like the BNSF throw, the old man worked for BN Railroad for many years.

How do you intend to control fermentation temps?
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 30, 2013, 05:38:40 PM
I have been working for the BNSF for 36 years now. I started on the BN in Burlington Iowa then moved to Alliance, NE after they layed 2/3s of us off, I was there a year and a half then got an opportunity to move to Topeka, KS.

Ralph is the best brew dog. He is a German Shepherd/Rough Collie mix. I got him at the Missouri German Shepherd Rescue nearly 4 years ago.

I will keep it in my basement which stays a constant 68F. That has been working for my ale pails and I don't know why this would be any different. I am still doing 5 gallon batches.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
I like the BNSF throw too! GE's ?
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: tomsawyer on August 30, 2013, 06:17:25 PM
You should be OK temp-wise, you have a thermometer on the thing so you'll know what it runs.  I sometimes use a fan blowing on my conical, that helps.  Mine's in the basement too.

Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 30, 2013, 07:54:36 PM
I like the BNSF throw too! GE's ?

Those are EMD MAC 70s that is what was assigned to Alliance when I was there.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 08:09:07 PM
I like the BNSF throw too! GE's ?

Those are EMD MAC 70s that is what was assigned to Alliance when I was there.

I used to be able to tell the EMD and GE locomotives apart at a glance, not so much anymore, as the cab roofs and full tanks are too similar these days.

Used to be round cabroof and square-ish tank was a GE. A square-ish roof and a round tank was an EMD. I did a project on a EMD GP 39-2 about 29 years ago.
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: gymrat on August 30, 2013, 08:18:13 PM
That all changed with the EMD M60s
Title: Re: cleaning and passifying question
Post by: orangehero on September 21, 2013, 01:36:02 AM
10% w/v citric acid solution heated to 160°F is used as a safe alternative to nitric acid. 10 minutes contact is indicated in the ASTM Metals Handbook, but I like to leave it to cool overnight. You can also save the solution for reuse, just heat it back up. I've also been recommended to use 5% w/v citric acid and 5% w/v ascorbic acid, but ascorbic acid is more expensive.