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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: rustyl on August 29, 2013, 01:49:06 pm

Title: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rustyl on August 29, 2013, 01:49:06 pm
 I've been " homebrewing"  for almost two years.  I've only been able to do extract so far because all grain equipment is expensive.  But I make really good beer and sanitize religiously,  monitor and control fermentation,  etc. I even filter and treat my water according to the knowledge I've gained from John Palmer.

 BUT,  today I introduced myself to a couple all grain brewers at a brew pub as a fellow homebrewer and was ridiculed right out of the building. All  this time I thought I was part of a community of beer makers to find out in a very public and embarrassing way that I am just a " water boiler". I know extract isn't as advanced as all grain,  but why didn't anyone tell me that it's not even really considered brewing? I had my kid brother with me,  which made me just want to fight the guys to save face.  But I just left.  I'm going this weekend to start buying all grain equipment,  because I'm obsessed with this hobby and I want to be a part of the real thing. I just think they should tell people when they start doing extract that they shouldn't brag too loudly until they move to the real thing.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: morticaixavier on August 29, 2013, 01:57:21 pm
I would have told those guys to go squat myself. I am an all grain brewer and love it very much. I would fully encourage you to make the switch as soon as possible but do it because you WANT to not because a bunch of a-holes displayed their ingnorance and lack of upbringing.

Extract with steeping grains and even just extract is absolutely brewing.

sorry to hear this happened to you. don't let it color your impression of all grain brewers.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Vin S on August 29, 2013, 02:03:44 pm
Your a homebrewer. You make beer at home. Dont worry what those other guys say. Most if not all of us started out brewing extract.Go all grain because you want to not because of a couple of turds.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: theDarkSide on August 29, 2013, 02:05:32 pm
Mufasa from BJ's doesn't consider extract brewers to be brewer's, but he's not an a$$hole about it.  I think there's even an all extract brewery in Cali or Oregon IIRC.

Several of the people in my homebrew club are extract brewers, either due to time, space, or money and they make some great beer.

All this said, I would encourage anyone to make the jump to all grain if you can. 

As for these guys, I wouldn't worry about them too  much...they are probably Beer Advocate forum members.  :P
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: micsager on August 29, 2013, 02:07:56 pm
Well, I'd like to add my comments, but the guys before said all that needs to be said.  I brewed with extract for years, until I accidentally ordered a mini-mash kit.  I considered myself a home brewer from the beginning.

It's too bad some people get a bit stuck on themselves.......
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Gary Glass on August 29, 2013, 02:18:11 pm
Thankfully most homebrewers are really great people who are happy to share their love of the hobby with fellow homebrewers.  You happened to run into a couple of the exceptions.  Homebrewer snobs do us all a great disservice by discrediting our hobby.

I started out with extract brewing 20 years ago and didn't get into all grain for many years.  With the quality of extracts available these days, you can make extract beers that taste as good if not better than all grain.  Brewing all grain gives you more control, but doesn't necessarily make you a brewer of better beer.  I still occasionally brew with extracts, and every time I do I find myself smiling at having saved myself several hours in the process.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Stevie on August 29, 2013, 02:47:44 pm
Other than the ingredients being more expensive, there is nothing wrong with extract brewing.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: cornershot on August 29, 2013, 02:58:21 pm
I've been a brewer for 20 years but all grain for only half that. I only started all grain because I got laid off and suddenly had more time and less money. I already did full wort boils and I had a cooler, tubing, hose clamps, and ss braid to make a mash tun. By buying grain and hops in bulk and learning to repitch yeast, I could brew some really good beer for like $8 a case. Haven't looked back since. But I do still go to extract if I just need to knock out a batch quickly for a party or something. Point is, go all grain when you're ready and for your own reasons!

On the subject of brew snobs, a guy I know brews only triple decoction pilsners for over 30 years. He has some cronies who help him and they all think if it's not decoction mashed it's subpar. But I do single infusion demos at the lhbs and my beer is frequently on tap there. They come in and have no problem sucking it down! I even caught him sneaking off with a growler of my pilsner!

Join a club and hang out with some other brewers. Most are friendly and down to earth!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rjharper on August 29, 2013, 03:03:06 pm
I extract brewed for 6 years, before going all grain. I've taken runner up BoS with an extract beer. Don't let anyone tell you you're not homebrewing with extract. As others have said; go all grain if you want more recipe control; if you you want to save money on ingredients and blow it on equipment instead; if you want to double the length of your brew day. But don't go all grain just because a couple of homebrew snobs ruined extract for you.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 29, 2013, 03:04:47 pm
You should have told them to get bent.  There's far more to it than extract or all-grain.

I've tasted plenty of all-grain beers that were not so great.

I've brewed for 20 years and I do partial mashes.  A significant portion of my fermentables come from DME and you can kiss my grits if you think I'm not a homebrewer.

Someday, perhaps soon, I'll move to all-grain. But only when I want to, if I want to.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 29, 2013, 03:05:33 pm
"Instant A-hole - Just add alcohol".       Forget those idiots!   You make beer. Go at your own pace and know that those guys are an anomaly. We all started where you are. Any help you need is waiting on this forum.  Enjoy !

P.S.  I'm betting their beer wasn't that great.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 29, 2013, 03:07:08 pm
P.S.  I'm betting their beer wasn't that great.

I was going to say the same thing.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rustyl on August 29, 2013, 03:21:28 pm
 You know, I can't help but feel cry baby-ish about this topic,  but where I live, I am the only homebrewer I know and, in my excitement to finally meet someone else and have conversation, I was really taken aback by the reception I received. I take my process very seriously and have an "all grain fund" building slowly.  Because that has been my goal from the start. I must have read How to Brew five times before I bought a single thing. I really appreciate the responses I got from you guys because it was pretty discouraging.  Normally,  I'd stand up and put jokers like that in their place,  but it did actually make me wonder how extract brewers are viewed among the masses.  What a great community this is! Thanks again.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: morticaixavier on August 29, 2013, 03:42:03 pm
You know, I can't help but feel cry baby-ish about this topic,  but where I live, I am the only homebrewer I know and, in my excitement to finally meet someone else and have conversation, I was really taken aback by the reception I received. I take my process very seriously and have an "all grain fund" building slowly.  Because that has been my goal from the start. I must have read How to Brew five times before I bought a single thing. I really appreciate the responses I got from you guys because it was pretty discouraging.  Normally,  I'd stand up and put jokers like that in their place,  but it did actually make me wonder how extract brewers are viewed among the masses.  What a great community this is! Thanks again.

glad to help. stick around and you can learn a lot. whereish are you located? have you checked out the AHA Find a Club tool? I'm not a terribly social person but having a brew club is a great way to find folks to talk beer with.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: scottNU on August 29, 2013, 03:48:12 pm
You are a brewer. These guys are definitely overcompensating for a deficiency they would rather not discuss. I bet it was Zima in their glasses.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: djsanta on August 29, 2013, 04:19:19 pm
You just ran into a bad crowd.  Of all the homebrewers I've ever met only 1-2% of them are a-holes.  Unfortunately, this was your first experience...too bad.

If you do want to get into all-grain brewing on the cheap I highly recommend BIAB.  That's how I made the switch.  You can make some great beer using BIAB, and anyone who tells you that's not brewing can suck a rock!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Three on August 29, 2013, 04:32:10 pm
Your in the right crowd now rusyl!  Nothin' but love and brewing knowledge here!

Lets brew!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: jamminbrew on August 29, 2013, 05:08:13 pm
Screw those guys. I've had some really awesome extract beers that blew away similar all grain beers. Do what you do, and take pride in your beers. I've meet a few people who thought they were gods at homebrewing, but when I tried their beers, they were usually plain, and once downright gross.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: cornershot on August 29, 2013, 05:40:55 pm
You just ran into a bad crowd.  Of all the homebrewers I've ever met only 1-2% of them are a-holes.  Unfortunately, this was your first experience...too bad.

If you do want to get into all-grain brewing on the cheap I highly recommend BIAB.  That's how I made the switch.  You can make some great beer using BIAB, and anyone who tells you that's not brewing can suck a rock!

+1 to BIAB. I demo fly sparging on a 3 keggle system, batch sparging with a cooler, and BIAB and BIAB is, by far, the most requested. Mostly for it's simplicity and minimal equipment for new brewers but I do it more and more just because it's a relatively shorter brew day.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rustyl on August 29, 2013, 06:40:22 pm
 I'm from Flint,  Michigan. Plenty of bars, and not too far from lots of breweries and craft breweries, but other than my brother, dad and  brother-in-law,  we haven't met any other Homebrewers. We are all into this hobby, but I'm the obsessed one that takes it to a whole other level.  They just follow my lead, which is scary considering how new at this I am. Flint is a crazy town, but I am a very social person and do fine keeping on the good side of the trouble here.  I'll take your advice and look for a nearby club. I kind of thought those were for advanced guys and girls that do competitions.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: cornershot on August 29, 2013, 06:48:48 pm
I'm from Flint,  Michigan. Plenty of bars, and not too far from lots of breweries and craft breweries, but other than my brother, dad and  brother-in-law,  we haven't met any other Homebrewers. We are all into this hobby, but I'm the obsessed one that takes it to a whole other level.  They just follow my lead, which is scary considering how new at this I am. Flint is a crazy town, but I am a very social person and do fine keeping on the good side of the trouble here.  I'll take your advice and look for a nearby club. I kind of thought those were for advanced guys and girls that do competitions.

...and beginners, and club brew sessions, and holiday parties, technical talks at meetings, festivals, sensory training, equipment building, trading, sharing, socializing, networking... you get the idea.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: cornershot on August 29, 2013, 06:50:59 pm
With any luck the snobs will be in the club and you can taste some real homebrew!  ;)
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: scottNU on August 29, 2013, 07:02:06 pm
You will find so many advantages and benefits to being in a club. Give it a shot and I think you will find that people will be just as open and friendly as this forums.

I bet the guys you ran into aren't in a club. They don't seem to play nice with others.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 29, 2013, 07:14:20 pm
Rustyl, I have to catch myself when I brew with friends who are solely extract guys not to say something that might be taken the wrong way.  But these guys went way beyond even a mild tease in your case.  I have friends who do all grain some of the time and extract other times.  Frankly, many times, if I am stepping up a batch through starter to 2.5 gallon to 5 gallon, I will do extract for the 2.5 gallon step, just to be quicker and easier.  Bigger batches justify the time of an all grain brewing session, typically for me, but not always.  So I see no reason to downgrade a person, just because he or she doesn't do it the way the "pro's do it".  Heck, I don't do a lot of things the way the pro's do.  Because I am a homebrewer and so are you!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Jimmy K on August 29, 2013, 08:18:18 pm
I don't believe you're a brewer unless you hand pull the water out of a well, grow and malt your own grain and hops, manage your own yeast cultures ... I'm kidding.
 
Seriously, EVERY brewer - including most pro's - chooses some parts of the process to outsource. Extract brewers have someone else mash for them, but all grain brewers have someone else malt grain for them. Malting was once an integral part of the brewing process. Some people manage their own yeast, most just buy vials or packets. And hops - where's the art if the package tells you the AA levels, etc. Or how about recipe formulation? So - don't sweat the a---oles.
 
So my point is - producing beer from raw ingredients is a multi-step process and deciding that ONE part is what makes you a brewer is bunk.
 
And I think most folks here would agree with this - Mashing is the 'sexy' part of brewing, but it's not the hard part, and it's not the most critical part. Fermentation control is the harder/critical part of making quality beer.  When people want to go all-grain to improve their beer, I encourage them to look at improving yeast health and fermentation control (temperatures) first. That will provide a lot more benefit (though I don't know if anyone ever listens).
 
And this...
 
(http://www.rantingnewyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/far-side-god-jerks.jpg)
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: cornershot on August 29, 2013, 08:31:39 pm
+1 to all mtnrockhopper said. The difference between a good beer and a not so good beer is more often than not fermentation.
And I've had that far side cartoon on my beer fridge for like 10 years! Classic!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: tonyp on August 29, 2013, 10:37:27 pm
You are absolutely a brewer and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They were being elitist dbags, not to make you feel bad about yourself, but to make themselves feel superior. Bullies are everywhere unfortunately, but you don't need to be around them, and quite honestly, they don't deserve the privilege of your company.

I started with a Mr. Beer kit and made some of the crappiest beer on earth, but opening that first bottle when it was done was just as exciting as the last all-grain batch I brewed 13 yrs later.

This forum is the home to some of the most generous, down-to-earth and kindest people you will ever meet and you are more than welcome to be a part of it without judgment or ridicule. In fact, if you didn't immediately notice it, there is a whole forum section dedicated to extract brewing filled with people ready to answer your questions and share your experiences with.

I hope your experience doesn't tarnish your view of the hobby and just know that we are all here for you if you need any help.

Welcome to the family, cheers!

Tony
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rhcpfan4002 on August 30, 2013, 03:52:47 am
With more and more people homebrewing you will probably see more of this. We have jerks show up to club meetings now and then. They come in thinking they know everything and start belittling others, then a BJCP judge may comment on  a flaw in their beer, not to be mean but to educate, and they take extreme offense to it. I think I saw this happen twice in 5 years. Very few people make a beer with no flaws if they are trying to make a certain style. I love doing all grain but if it is just a rainy day and want something to do for a few hours I usually do a partial mash from a kit I got for Christmas, spare grains I have laying around or make some mead. Can I taste a difference between partial and full mash? Yes. Do they both taste good? Yes. Do what makes you happy man. I do not consider brewing with extract brewing, or at least how I do it, but more of a steeping process but I can tell you there are extract brewers out there who can whoop my ass any day of the week with some of their beers.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: singletrack brewer on August 30, 2013, 05:07:20 am
Reading about your experience really frustrates me and sadly these people exist in every community. It really sucks that you experienced that.  Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of a club is for like minded individuals to come together and share insight and experiences, not to ridicule.  It shouldn't matter if you are just starting out, been brewing for years, extract, all grain, etc.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Slowbrew on August 30, 2013, 05:18:40 am
I can't really add anything to what has already been said.  You will find bad apples in every batch.  I've been doing this for 16 years, 5 - 6 solely extract with grains.  I went to all-grain to prove I could and found out it isn't that much different.  It just takes longer.  8^)

Ask anything you wonder about here.  There is a rather large base of knowledge on this forum on a vast number of subjects, not just beer.

Welcome and come back often.

Paul
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 05:41:29 am
BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: theDarkSide on August 30, 2013, 06:12:09 am
You know, I can't help but feel cry baby-ish about this topic,  but where I live, I am the only homebrewer I know and, in my excitement to finally meet someone else and have conversation, I was really taken aback by the reception I received.

Come to NHC in Grand Rapids next June and you'll be exposed to nearly 4000 new friends who definitely consider you a brewer!!

Only 286 days to go!  ;D

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).

It's not a joke...it's science!!  ;D
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rustyl on August 30, 2013, 07:18:07 am
 Wow everyone. Thank you all again for the great posts and support.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: rustyl on August 30, 2013, 07:22:28 am
The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php
[/quote]

 Not too far. I know Milford very well. I work very closely with the village and township.  I'll look you guys up.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: brewmichigan on August 30, 2013, 07:26:24 am
BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Dude Jeff, you could have told the guy I'm from Flint. I sent you a PM buddy.  :D
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 09:10:38 am
BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Dude Jeff, you could have told the guy I'm from Flint. I sent you a PM buddy.  :D
I just figured you were going to show up soon, Mike.

Hey Rusty, if you see those guys again, and they are bragging about all grain, ask them about how they do triple decoctions or turbid mashes.  :)
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: narvin on August 30, 2013, 09:18:13 am
They sound like a bunch of bratty n00bs.  I always encourage people to go all grain because some think it's harder than it actually is, but there are space/money/time limitations that you need to prioritize.  Sounds like you're already well on your way to it, and are already brewing great beer.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: FirstStateBrewer on August 30, 2013, 09:25:57 am
I brewed extract for 20 years.  Only switched over to all-grain about 3 years ago.  While I was still extract brewing, someone said to me I wasn't really brewing unless I went all-grain.  I replied that it was funny how I had 6 kegs of beer on tap at home that I guess I hadn't actually brewed.  He conceded my point.   8)
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: denny on August 30, 2013, 09:38:57 am
You know, I can't help but feel cry baby-ish about this topic,  but where I live, I am the only homebrewer I know and, in my excitement to finally meet someone else and have conversation, I was really taken aback by the reception I received. I take my process very seriously and have an "all grain fund" building slowly.  Because that has been my goal from the start. I must have read How to Brew five times before I bought a single thing. I really appreciate the responses I got from you guys because it was pretty discouraging.  Normally,  I'd stand up and put jokers like that in their place,  but it did actually make me wonder how extract brewers are viewed among the masses.  What a great community this is! Thanks again.

FWIW, all grain doesn't have to be expensive.  Check out www.dennybrew.com
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: corkybstewart on August 30, 2013, 10:43:52 am
I'll just echo what everybody else has said.  A member of the club I belong to won the Texas Bluebonnet competition with an extract brew.  I have a friend here who brews all grain but his beers generally are subpar because he racks to kegs in either 7 or 14 days depending on the OG of the beer and ferments everything at room temp(over 75F ambient) and he refuses to listen or read any recent brewing literature. 
In my opinion the most important aspects of brewing take place post boil so it really doesn't matter where you get the wort.
Like an earlier poster I brewed extract w/grains for several years until I quit my full time job and became a consultant.  I also had less money for a while but a whole lot more time to dedicate to brewing and drinking.  My first 6 years of all grain brewing were essentially wasted because I had no idea fermentation temp control made much difference.  That was the the concept that changed the quality of my beer, not how I produced the wort.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: bluesman on August 30, 2013, 10:52:58 am
Well you've officially found the source for all of your homebrewing questions right here on this forum. Welcome to the AHA forum, where you'll find answers to most, if not all of your homebrewing questions, AND the support of your fellow homebrewers as opposed to your barroom expereience.

Stick around and join in on the fun here. :)
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: AmandaK on August 30, 2013, 11:22:30 am
P.S.  I'm betting their beer wasn't that great.

I was going to say the same thing.

My thoughts exactly. For them to think that all-grain is the only way of brewing simply shows their complete lack of knowledge and unnecessarily giant egos (over what, making beer?? give me a break).

Hang out here a bit more, and you'll see that we're not all like that nor do we all think like that.  ;D

A parallel: I ride motorcycles, sport motorcycles.  You won't ever find me doing wheelies on the highway, revving my engine at a stoplight or wearing a mohawk on my helmet. You'll find me (and plenty of other motorcyclists) wearing all my gear - all the time, not cutting through small gaps in traffic and simply sitting at a stoplight without revving my engine. It is the former group that seems to give the sport riders a bad rap.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: brewmichigan on August 30, 2013, 11:35:12 am
BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Dude Jeff, you could have told the guy I'm from Flint. I sent you a PM buddy.  :D
I just figured you were going to show up soon, Mike.

Hey Rusty, if you see those guys again, and they are bragging about all grain, ask them about how they do triple decoctions or turbid mashes.  :)

Well it just would have been nice if you were like, Hey I know this awesome, super great brewer from Flint. He makes the best beer I've ever tasted and is awesome.

You know, something like that ;-)

By the way, if you go dennybrew (which is a great way) be prepared to spend the rest of your life thinking every time you go in Lowes or HD, what can I buy that I can use in my mash tun or Boil kettle.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: garc_mall on August 30, 2013, 11:45:27 am
By the way, if you go dennybrew (which is a great way) be prepared to spend the rest of your life thinking every time you go in Lowes or HD, what can I buy that I can use in my mash tun or Boil kettle.

My wife no longer allows me to go into home depot alone.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: denny on August 30, 2013, 11:51:41 am
By the way, if you go dennybrew (which is a great way) be prepared to spend the rest of your life thinking every time you go in Lowes or HD, what can I buy that I can use in my mash tun or Boil kettle.

My wife no longer allows me to go into home depot alone.

I've gotten to the point where I can visualize the entire plumbing dept. of my local home improvement store in my head.  I have my route planned before I walk in the door!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: tomsawyer on August 30, 2013, 12:06:06 pm
True dat.  I was in Lowes some time ago and mentioned to the associate I wanted a particular fitting for homebrewing, and another guy in the plumbing aisle came up and introduced himself as the brewer at a nanobrewery in a town 30 miles away.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 12:10:26 pm
BIAB is the cheapest way to go all grain.

This is more, get a blue cooler (forum joke).
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Even more is a 3 vessel system with all the bells and whistles.

The is a really good group of gals and guys in the Cass River Homebrew Club, hope that is not too far for you.

http://crhbc.com/pages/about-us.php

Dude Jeff, you could have told the guy I'm from Flint. I sent you a PM buddy.  :D
I just figured you were going to show up soon, Mike.

Hey Rusty, if you see those guys again, and they are bragging about all grain, ask them about how they do triple decoctions or turbid mashes.  :)

Well it just would have been nice if you were like, Hey I know this awesome, super great brewer from Flint. He makes the best beer I've ever tasted and is awesome.

You know, something like that ;-)

By the way, if you go dennybrew (which is a great way) be prepared to spend the rest of your life thinking every time you go in Lowes or HD, what can I buy that I can use in my mash tun or Boil kettle.
Yeah something like that would have been good.

Rust, I can vouch for Mike. Good guy, good homebrewer. If you have a chance to brew with him, take it!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: theDarkSide on August 30, 2013, 12:11:21 pm
and introduced himself as the brewer at a nanobrewery in a town 30 miles away.

Yeah, but is he brewing All Grain in his nano?  ;D
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: thatgeekguy on August 30, 2013, 12:23:21 pm
Mufasa from BJ's doesn't consider extract brewers to be brewer's, but he's not an a$$hole about it.

Ironic, since a large percentage of BJ's own beer isn't even made by BJ's and Mufasa is in charge of their contract brewing operations. Out of their 130 locations it appears that only three actually brew on premise and supply only 30% of their total requirements.  ::)

But I digress, back to the topic at hand. Any brewers who demeans another for their methods or processes should be ashamed of themselves. At the end of the day, making good beer is what it's all about and some prominent gold medal winners were extract beers. Heck, even Jamil Zainasheff has made extract batches using slightly tweaked recipes with Cooper's-style pre-hopped extracts that he has presented to respected beer aficionados with great reviews before telling them they were drinking a 'kit and kilo' beer.

Make what you can, make it well, and tell those jerks to go to H*ll....
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 30, 2013, 12:54:25 pm
Mufasa from BJ's doesn't consider extract brewers to be brewer's, but he's not an a$$hole about it.

Ironic, since a large percentage of BJ's own beer isn't even made by BJ's and Mufasa is in charge of their contract brewing operations. Out of their 130 locations it appears that only three actually brew on premise and supply only 30% of their total requirements.  ::)

But I digress, back to the topic at hand. Any brewers who demeans another for their methods or processes should be ashamed of themselves. At the end of the day, making good beer is what it's all about and some prominent gold medal winners were extract beers. Heck, even Jamil Zainasheff has made extract batches using slightly tweaked recipes with Cooper's-style pre-hopped extracts that he has presented to respected beer aficionados with great reviews before telling them they were drinking a 'kit and kilo' beer.

Make what you can, make it well, and tell those jerks to go to H*ll....
+1.  There's a BJ's in south Indy and they are a complete joke.  They brew it in Nevada and truck it to Indy under the guise of a brewpub front, complete with a "decorative" empty fermenter.  I tried a sample of everything, liked nothing. I remember a ~ 1.054 "RIS" that I found humorous.  So I see the irony too.  There's the proof that all-grain isn't necessarily superior - they make AG sh#&&y beer.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: phunhog on August 30, 2013, 03:40:43 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing? 
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Slowbrew on August 30, 2013, 03:54:39 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I don't think anyone said there isn't any difference between extract and all-grain.  The general message is both can make good beer.  If you distill a message down too far you lose the meaning.

You can make very good, award winning beer with extracts.  You can also make really crappy beer via all-grain.  It's about the brewer and their practices "more" than about the base ingredients most instances.

Paul
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: morticaixavier on August 30, 2013, 04:08:52 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: micah h on August 30, 2013, 04:20:41 pm
Sounds like a couple of hipster brewers. If you're not doing exactly what they are doing your wrong. If it wasn't the extract they would have said that capping is wrong, you need to use Grolsch-style swing-caps. Or  you're not kegging that's not brewing.

I'm a extract brewer for one good reason. Not enough room to store the stuff, and I don't think my girlfriend would want to sleep on my brewing equipment.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: jeffy on August 30, 2013, 04:24:35 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I judged best of show at the Oakland NHC (with Tom Schmidlin - by the way, where is he these days?) and the beer that won the whole shebang turned out to be an extract beer.

I haven't brewed extract in a long while, but when I did do a batch a couple years ago I was really surprised at how expensive it was.  On the other hand I was happy with the time I saved.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 30, 2013, 07:55:37 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

I judged best of show at the Oakland NHC (with Tom Schmidlin - by the way, where is he these days?) and the beer that won the whole shebang turned out to be an extract beer.

I haven't brewed extract in a long while, but when I did do a batch a couple years ago I was really surprised at how expensive it was.  On the other hand I was happy with the time I saved.

There has been an absence in the "Force" on the AHA Forum. Where is Tom?
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: thirsty on August 30, 2013, 10:11:16 pm
Rusty, it's not how you make it, it's the final product that counts. If you enjoy the beer you make, that's all that matters,
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: phunhog on August 30, 2013, 10:51:48 pm
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.

Absolutely it is a D-bag move to bag on someone who starts out extract brewing!! That is how most of us started and I think it is the preferred way of learning how to brew. 
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: philm63 on August 31, 2013, 06:49:08 am
Rusty - I started with extract, moved to partial-mash and now I do all-grain, but I have yet to even place in a comp with one of my all-grain brews. My one gold came from a partial-mash (mostly extract) brew further reinforcing that it's not necessarily HOW you make your beer, rather it's how WELL you make your beer, and it's the brewer that makes it happen, not just the ingredients.

I am reminded of a couple of very big names around here; Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer - say; didn't they write the book "Brewing Classic Styles"? Every recipe in that book is... you guessed it; EXTRACT!
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 31, 2013, 07:18:29 am
I don't know. Do you think it is mere coincidence that all (IIRC) of NHC winners the last couple of years were all grain brewers?  Or better yet why don't commercial breweries switch to extract if there really isn't any difference between extract brewing vs. all grain brewing?

Extract is significantly more expensive per gravity point than grain. And still there are SOME pro extract brewers.

Regardless, the question is not if extract makes better/worse beer but if it is a d-bag move to slap someone down because they are starting out with extract.

Absolutely it is a D-bag move to bag on someone who starts out extract brewing!! That is how most of us started and I think it is the preferred way of learning how to brew. 
That was my point in my posting.  I've brewed AG for 20 years and obviously prefer it, but just handing a guy a sack of crushed malt doesn't guarantee a superior product, as evidenced by the "brewpub" I mentioned.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: Jimmy K on August 31, 2013, 09:54:15 am
I also know a few all-grain brewers who've gone back to extract for space and time efficiency (I've thought about it myself a few times, just to fill the kegs). I guess they were tired of being brewers.  :o
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: denny on August 31, 2013, 09:56:20 am
When Briess was developing a rye extract for NB, I brewed several extract batches with it to come up with a recipe for Rye IPA for NB.  I had an all grain version of it on tape, also and I was amazed at how close the extract version came to the AG.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 31, 2013, 11:03:23 am
Actually when I make fruit wheat beers for my wife I use Briess extracts and some flaked wheat when time is a factor.  She likes a fruit bomb and with that level of fruit presence I'm hard pressed to tell the difference. I guess I'm making soup on those days instead of beer.
Title: Re: Why didn't anyone tell me?
Post by: dzlater on August 31, 2013, 05:22:11 pm
I would love to able to afford to brew an extract batch from time to time.