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General Category => Going Pro => Topic started by: Pawtucket Patriot on October 16, 2013, 03:23:07 PM

Title: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on October 16, 2013, 03:23:07 PM
Hey guys,

We're working with our architect on our production-area floor-plan right now.  We've got a lot of things figured out, but we're still trying to sort out a trench drain plan.  I've got some ideas, and I've done a lot of research, but there doesn't seem to be any rule of thumb for this.

For you guys who are currently in production, do you have any suggestions?  Anything you'd do differently in hindsight?  I'm posting a drawing of our proposed production floor-plan so you can get an idea of the layout.  I'm also posting my ideas for trench drains.  You'll notice that I'm thinking of doing a round drain in the brewhouse area.

Cheers!

Matt

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j137/mattschwandt/ScreenShot2013-10-16at102136AM_zps5d9dfaf2.png) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/mattschwandt/media/ScreenShot2013-10-16at102136AM_zps5d9dfaf2.png.html)

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j137/mattschwandt/ScreenShot2013-10-16at104433AM_zpscca22d37.png) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/mattschwandt/media/ScreenShot2013-10-16at104433AM_zpscca22d37.png.html)
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: tschmidlin on October 16, 2013, 04:17:59 PM
Is that round floor drain in a convenient location for the plumbing?  Why not slant that floor towards the trench drain by the fermenters, and/or extend the trench a bit?  The location shown seems a bit inconvenient for squeegeeing.  Also, I would want the floor sloped all of the way to the wall behind the fermenters so you don't have a shelf there to hold water.

Speaking of the fermenters - why not move them closer to the wall?  It will give you more room for access in the front, which you will do a lot, at the expense of space in the back which you will rarely access.  Position the glycol fittings on either the front side or on the back/side so you can access them by ducking between the bottom cones and then standing up in the dead space.

Things I would do differently in hindsight - have a floor that slants towards the floor drain ;)
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Vin S on October 16, 2013, 04:32:44 PM
Matt, I cant tell by picture but how far do you have to cart your spent grain. I know the few breweries I've been to there mash tun isnt far from a loading dock or a garage door.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 16, 2013, 05:23:09 PM
At the Oakland NHC, the going Pro discussion ramped off on floors and drains for quite a bit. Ken Grossman said he had written up guidelines on floors and drains. Might be on the Brewers Association site somewhere.

Tom - I remember Vinnie C. saying that his floors did not drain, and would have to redo someday.

The take away is that this mundane subject is important, and get it right early.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: denny on October 16, 2013, 06:06:22 PM
At the Oakland NHC, the going Pro discussion ramped off on floors and drains for quite a bit. Ken Grossman said he had written up guidelines on floors and drains. Might be on the Brewers Association site somewhere.

Tom - I remember Vinnie C. saying that his floors did not drain, and would have to redo someday.

The take away is that this mundane subject is important, and get it right early.

It's important even for homebrewers.  When I rebuilt my garage for brewing, the first thing I planned for was a sloped floor and floor drain.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: tschmidlin on October 17, 2013, 06:49:07 AM
It's important even for homebrewers.  When I rebuilt my garage for brewing, the first thing I planned for was a sloped floor and floor drain.
Jealous!
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: denny on October 17, 2013, 03:57:32 PM
It's important even for homebrewers.  When I rebuilt my garage for brewing, the first thing I planned for was a sloped floor and floor drain.
Jealous!

Hey, man, you've got a freakin' brewery to play with!
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: tschmidlin on October 17, 2013, 04:02:00 PM
It's important even for homebrewers.  When I rebuilt my garage for brewing, the first thing I planned for was a sloped floor and floor drain.
Jealous!

Hey, man, you've got a freakin' brewery to play with!
Yes, but the floor drain is uphill and the downhill spot is under my grain storage.  Do you know how hard it is to clean the place when you can't hose it down? ;D
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: punatic on October 17, 2013, 04:10:13 PM
When they pour the floors watch like a hawk and insist they slope the floors to the drains properly.  Concrete flatwork finishers do not always have an eye for that kind of detail.  I worked in a water treatment plant for 15 years where the floor drains were set 1/4" higher than finished floor grade.  For 15 years I worked in puddles.  It sucked.  A few extra minutes of attention to detail would have saved me years of splashing through puddles.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: bluesman on October 17, 2013, 04:29:18 PM
Great post Matt. This is important from an efficiency standpoint. The better the floor drain design...the more efficient the process = lower labor costs. Spending the time/effort/cost now will help save time/money down the line.

I'm curious to learn your findings with this. I also saw your post on the PB forum.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on October 17, 2013, 04:40:27 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.  I think we'll end up doing a long trench in between the rows of fermentors, and then just grade the floor under the brewhouse so that runoff drains to the trench.  We'll also probably do another trench in the packaging area.  We're going to put a circle drain in the cold room, one in the bar, and one in each bathroom.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Pinski on October 17, 2013, 06:04:31 PM
At the Oakland NHC, the going Pro discussion ramped off on floors and drains for quite a bit. Ken Grossman said he had written up guidelines on floors and drains. Might be on the Brewers Association site somewhere.

Tom - I remember Vinnie C. saying that his floors did not drain, and would have to redo someday.

The take away is that this mundane subject is important, and get it right early.


It's important even for homebrewers.  When I rebuilt my garage for brewing, the first thing I planned for was a sloped floor and floor drain.

What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: punatic on October 17, 2013, 06:17:25 PM
What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?

Brew outside.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Slowbrew on October 17, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
When they pour the floors watch like a hawk and insist they slope the floors to the drains properly.  Concrete flatwork finishers do not always have an eye for that kind of detail.  I worked in a water treatment plant for 15 years where the floor drains were set 1/4" higher than finished floor grade.  For 15 years I worked in puddles.  It sucked.  A few extra minutes of attention to detail would have saved me years of splashing through puddles.

I can relate.  We put an addition on the house several years ago.  Code now requires a sump pump so we put it in the far corner of the floor.  Everything looked great until the first rain during construction.  The whole floor slopes away from the sump hole.   ::)  Glad I paid professionals to pour that floor. 

Luckily we never get any water in the room so it doesn't matter.  It's a walk out basement so it is pretty much above grade for the most part.

Paul
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: denny on October 17, 2013, 07:18:03 PM
What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?

Judging by how much it cost me to remodel the garage, I don't think there is one!  I out the drain in the middle of the room and the floor slopes 1/8" per ft. towards it.  That's enough to get flow without making the entire floor seem out of kilter.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Pinski on October 17, 2013, 08:15:49 PM
What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?

Brew outside.

said the Hawaiian in mid october ::)
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Pinski on October 17, 2013, 08:17:13 PM
What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?

Judging by how much it cost me to remodel the garage, I don't think there is one!  I out the drain in the middle of the room and the floor slopes 1/8" per ft. towards it.  That's enough to get flow without making the entire floor seem out of kilter.

Well done, I'm  envious.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on October 18, 2013, 01:09:51 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.  I think we'll end up doing a long trench in between the rows of fermentors, and then just grade the floor under the brewhouse so that runoff drains to the trench.  We'll also probably do another trench in the packaging area.  We're going to put a circle drain in the cold room, one in the bar, and one in each bathroom.
Floor drain in Packaging area is a great idea.

My chiller is indoors and I do get a lot of condensations from pump that is in the chiller.
So think about that walking cooler and chiller create condensations and you have to do something with it.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: punatic on October 18, 2013, 01:35:21 AM
What is the cheap-n-easy...er uh pragmatic approach to floor drains?

Brew outside.

said the Hawaiian in mid october ::)

My advice holds year-round.
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: boulderbrewer on October 18, 2013, 02:14:59 PM
Make sure you have easily removable grates for your drains so these can be hosed down daily. Cuts down on fruit flies. A Drain outside your cold room so the condensate drain can be put there. You don't want to have anything in your drain in the cooler that would be a pain moving pallets etc. Drains going into a collection area to catch the solids? Have a floor mop sink in the brewery too.

Edit, Don't forget a 2,3 or 4 compartment sinks near the production areas. Need a place to clean the smaller parts.   
Title: Re: Trench Drain Plan
Post by: toddster on November 06, 2013, 01:22:10 AM
I've installed these drains in a brewery and other jobs I've done.

http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/deadlevel.asp

They are the cats meow and you can get grates that you can drive a forklift over. I've known lots of concrete guys over the years and you get what you pay for. Check references, write a good spec sheet and hold money in escrow. T