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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: yso191 on October 23, 2013, 10:38:39 PM

Title: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on October 23, 2013, 10:38:39 PM
I'm going to brew an IPA on Friday, in which I will use Juniper berries.  According to s cheatsheet I found on using spices in brewing it says to use .2 ounces in five gallons at 60 minutes.  What it doesn't say is whether the berries are whole, cracked, ground or what.  Someone who has used Juniper berries please let me know how you used them and how it turned out.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: klickitat jim on October 23, 2013, 11:12:04 PM
Have you had a juniper beer before? I tried one a friend made. Based on that example I would say the less you use the better. Zero would be optimum. But that's just me
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on October 23, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
Have you had a juniper beer before? I tried one a friend made. Based on that example I would say the less you use the better. Zero would be optimum. But that's just me

Yeah I'm trying to do a clone of Pine in the Neck, brewed by the Blue Moon Brewing Co.  I contacted them and they gave me an ingredient list, but nothing more specific.  I hope I don't end up wasting 5 gallons!
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: klickitat jim on October 23, 2013, 11:34:49 PM
I bet the amount is very little.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on October 24, 2013, 02:24:11 AM
Can you describe the flavor that you found objectionable?  2/10ths of an ounce is pretty small - especially if left as whole berries.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on October 24, 2013, 02:51:02 AM
According to my online research the consensus is that Juniper berries impart a piney, resinous and slightly sweet flavor.  This is what I am looking for - a compliment to piney, resinous hops.  A few sites say that one can use up to an ounce (!) in five gallons at 15 minutes.  Everyone that I read recommends crushing the berries.

I am still open to input...  up to Friday noon anyway.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: erockrph on October 24, 2013, 03:45:19 AM
Maybe brew a 1-gallon test batch first? I've kicked around the thought before, but never went ahead with it. Keep us posted on your results.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: klickitat jim on October 24, 2013, 09:11:12 AM
Can you describe the flavor that you found objectionable?  2/10ths of an ounce is pretty small - especially if left as whole berries.
It's probably just me but juniper always smells of cat box to me.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: fmader on October 24, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
It's probably just me but juniper always smells of cat box to me.

Rock the cat box.... Rock the cat box
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: erockrph on October 24, 2013, 01:24:28 PM
Can you describe the flavor that you found objectionable?  2/10ths of an ounce is pretty small - especially if left as whole berries.
It's probably just me but juniper always smells of cat box to me.

Maybe the neighborhood kitties are using your bushes to do their business. When I smell juniper berries all I smell is gin.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: kramerog on October 24, 2013, 01:53:30 PM
Cracked.  That's how I use it in cooking.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: denny on October 24, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
Have you had a juniper beer before? I tried one a friend made. Based on that example I would say the less you use the better. Zero would be optimum. But that's just me

Agreed.  I feel the same way about spruce.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: Jeff M on October 25, 2013, 12:26:01 AM
why dont you put them in whole and then before fermentation test the beer, if its not juniper enough for you then put some cracked one in secondary? 2c
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 25, 2013, 12:41:03 AM
Have you had a juniper beer before? I tried one a friend made. Based on that example I would say the less you use the better. Zero would be optimum. But that's just me

Agreed.  I feel the same way about spruce.
Agreed on both counts.  Not a fan of either.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: punatic on October 25, 2013, 02:11:16 AM
+1 on juniper berries belonging in the gin basket with the rest of the gin botanicals, cassia, orange peel, angelica, anise, and coriander.  At least that's my lineup at this point, but I'm still fine tuning it.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: pinnah on October 26, 2013, 02:49:20 PM
I am curious about what kind of juniper berries folks use? Do you buy them or collect them?

Around here, we have two species of juniper, and the berries are quite different.
The rocky mountain juniper has nice juicy berries, but the Utah juniper has a mostly dry berry.

Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: punatic on October 26, 2013, 04:22:32 PM
nuts.com (http://www.nuts.com/cookingbaking/herbsspices/juniper-berries.html?utm_source=bing-ads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_group=62-JuniperBerries[7081)
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: pinnah on October 27, 2013, 02:01:19 PM
wow, amazing what you can have delivered to your home these days.

juniper berries AND organic dried sour cherries!
No yuzu rind? ???
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: punatic on October 27, 2013, 05:01:21 PM
Comes in handy when you live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: tschmidlin on November 01, 2013, 06:53:43 AM
I buy mine - we have something that looks like juniper in the yard, but some arborists told me it is a kind of cedar.  I'm somewhat cautious when it comes to harvesting stuff without positive identification - if it's something I shouldn't use, bad taste is a best case.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: chumley on November 11, 2013, 08:47:40 PM
I occasionally brew a wheat rye ale, OG around 1.050, with juniper berries.  Sort of a nod to historic Scandinavian brews. Its a great summer beer.

I generally use 1/4 oz. of berries per 5 gallon batch, added to the last 15 minutes of the boil.  That gives a very slight flavor that is hard to pick out.

I have used berries picked from junipers growing close to my home in Montana, and berries purchased from the local hippie health food store.  I strongly prefer the commercial kind.  They are bigger and not nearly as pungent.  I believe they are imported from Hungary.

I bruised the berries in a mortar and pestle right before I pitch them into the BK.

Basic recipe for 5 gallons is:

20-30% rye malt
20-30% wheat malt
50% pilsner malt

Double decoction or multi-step infusion mash, with rests at 105°-135°-155°F

1.5 oz. Tettnanger 60 min
0.5 oz Tettnanger 15 min
0.25 oz. Juniper berries 15 min.

German ale yeast ferment at 62°F
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on November 13, 2013, 05:41:06 AM
So here is my report on the resulting beer.  It turned out exactly as I hoped with respect to the Juniper berries.  I think I hit the right amount of Juniper berries/ time in boil, etc..  It has a piney bitterness that is not overpowering but quite present, and it is hard to discern what is coming from Juniper and what is coming from Hops.  If anything I think I'd eliminate the Citra in the dry hopping and go with another piney hop (and I LOVE Citra).  I also wonder about my choice of yeast.  I usually love the residual sweetness of 1968, but I think I'd go drier with this beer.  I also missed my OG by a bit.  I didn't think to change the mill gap for the wheat.  So I guess I need to brew version 2...  But, overall I am quite pleased with this beer.  I'm looking forward to comparing the commercial to my clone!

Here is the recipe:

Pine in the Neck Clone
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 9/25/2013   Mashed at 152* for 60 min
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Steve Harrison
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
 

Ingredients
 
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)  76.9 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)  7.7 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)  7.7 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)  3.8 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)  3.8 %
1.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min  66.9 IBUs
0.20 oz Juniper berries (Boil 60.0 mins)  -
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) 
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) 
2.25 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min  3.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min  0.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [14.10 %] - Boil 1.0 min  1.8 IBUs

1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)  -
2.50 oz Citra [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 6.0 Days   0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 6.0 Days   0.0 IBUs
 
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: bierwillumpie on November 14, 2013, 06:57:59 PM
Hi there,
I am a homebrewer from Holland (hips) for more than 25 years. If you want to use juniperberries dried, than you should use not more than 1 gram/liter. If they are fresh you can use 1,5 gram. Yust boil them in the kettle for 10 minutes.
Norwegian brewers use the branches of the tree while boiling the wort and during fermentation. You can use the branches as a filter during the full grain mash.
Be carefull with the berries it can make a your head feeling like a dumbbell :)
You never tried ground ivy or mugwort instead of hops?
suc6
bierwillumpie
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: morticaixavier on November 14, 2013, 06:59:43 PM
Hi there,
I am a homebrewer from Holland (hips) for more than 25 years. If you want to use juniperberries dried, than you should use not more than 1 gram/liter. If they are fresh you can use 1,5 gram. Yust boil them in the kettle for 10 minutes.
Norwegian brewers use the branches of the tree while boiling the wort and during fermentation. You can use the branches as a filter during the full grain mash.
Be carefull with the berries it can make a your head feeling like a dumbbell :)
You never tried ground ivy or mugwort instead of hops?
suc6
bierwillumpie

A gruit or similar ale is on my to do list for sure. I've brewed with heather tips instead of hops and with basil instead of hops. not mugwort or ground ivy, or wormwood... yet.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: bierwillumpie on November 15, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
Hi there,
I am a homebrewer from Holland (hips) for more than 25 years. If you want to use juniperberries dried, than you should use not more than 1 gram/liter. If they are fresh you can use 1,5 gram. Yust boil them in the kettle for 10 minutes.
Norwegian brewers use the branches of the tree while boiling the wort and during fermentation. You can use the branches as a filter during the full grain mash.
Be carefull with the berries it can make a your head feeling like a dumbbell :)
You never tried ground ivy or mugwort instead of hops?
suc6
bierwillumpie

A gruit or similar ale is on my to do list for sure. I've brewed with heather tips instead of hops and with basil instead of hops. not mugwort or ground ivy, or wormwood... yet.

Hi there,
If you want to experiment with that; go ahead and read Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers of Stephan Harrod Buhner. I've learned so much of that! Do not brew with wormwood please, to dangerous believe me. I do brew batches of 10 liter when using herbs, because you can't store them for long period. I always make tea first of the herbs i use, to get familiar with the taste in beer.
Suc6
Bierwillumpie
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: morticaixavier on November 15, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Hi there,
I am a homebrewer from Holland (hips) for more than 25 years. If you want to use juniperberries dried, than you should use not more than 1 gram/liter. If they are fresh you can use 1,5 gram. Yust boil them in the kettle for 10 minutes.
Norwegian brewers use the branches of the tree while boiling the wort and during fermentation. You can use the branches as a filter during the full grain mash.
Be carefull with the berries it can make a your head feeling like a dumbbell :)
You never tried ground ivy or mugwort instead of hops?
suc6
bierwillumpie

A gruit or similar ale is on my to do list for sure. I've brewed with heather tips instead of hops and with basil instead of hops. not mugwort or ground ivy, or wormwood... yet.

Hi there,
If you want to experiment with that; go ahead and read Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers of Stephan Harrod Buhner. I've learned so much of that! Do not brew with wormwood please, to dangerous believe me. I do brew batches of 10 liter when using herbs, because you can't store them for long period. I always make tea first of the herbs i use, to get familiar with the taste in beer.
Suc6
Bierwillumpie

that was one of the first brewing books I read. after CJoH of course
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on November 15, 2013, 07:26:30 PM
Hi there,
I am a homebrewer from Holland (hips) for more than 25 years. If you want to use juniperberries dried, than you should use not more than 1 gram/liter. If they are fresh you can use 1,5 gram. Yust boil them in the kettle for 10 minutes.
Norwegian brewers use the branches of the tree while boiling the wort and during fermentation. You can use the branches as a filter during the full grain mash.
Be carefull with the berries it can make a your head feeling like a dumbbell :)
You never tried ground ivy or mugwort instead of hops?
suc6
bierwillumpie

I'm curious about the 'head feeling like a dumbbell' thing.  I assume you mean that over-dosing can produce a headache.  I used a lot more than your suggested 1gram/ liter.  I have only tried 1 pint per evening, and I never get headaches for any reason, but I am concerned for others who would drink this.

Part of my issue is, that given how much flavor I got out of the amount I used, I think less would not rise to the level of being any flavor value - at least for my palate.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: duboman on November 15, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
If you have access to it, Rogue has a 2013 version called Juniper Pale Ale that I recently had. Personally I found it quite nice, somewhat piney with an interesting sweet/citrus characteristic but not at all similar to those flavors imparted by hops. It was not over powering at all and definitely something I would search out again.

Perhaps you can contact Rogue for some more info..........
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: bierwillumpie on November 16, 2013, 05:17:21 PM
I'm curious about the 'head feeling like a dumbbell' thing.  I assume you mean that over-dosing can produce a headache.  I used a lot more than your suggested 1gram/ liter.  I have only tried 1 pint per evening, and I never get headaches for any reason, but I am concerned for others who would drink this.

Part of my issue is, that given how much flavor I got out of the amount I used, I think less would not rise to the level of being any flavor value - at least for my palate.
Hi there,

Indeed headache but with different of that due to overdosis alcohol. I made a strong ale (8 vol% alc, 10 liter) and used 15 gram fresh berries, after that I brewed a 2nd batch with 10 gram dried berries; it was less aromatic. I didn't used hops but a combination of ground ivy and mugwort.
I think you should not be worried about others drinking your beer. The aromatic properties of juniper is used for ages against kidney problems, viral infections. Some product of father Kneipp contains juniper.
If you've boiled the berries longer than 15 minutes a lot of the flavours is vaporized.
I was just warning because overdosage with herbs can happen easily.
As I said before. I always make first tea of the herbs (recalculate the dosage) and drink that for a while. And it is always advisable to do some research to find reliable old recipes before the hop period:)
bierwillumpie
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: landsrud on December 31, 2013, 12:58:37 AM
Quote from: yso191


I'm curious about the 'head feeling like a dumbbell' thing.

Funny, that's exactly the way I would describe the way I felt when I drank more than 2 of the beer I brewed with wormwood. I used 0.3 oz fresh leaves (do anywhere near that dry and YOU'LL BE SORRY) for a 5 gal batch of a pretty regular 4%ish brown ale. just made a very strong tea with 2 cups water and poured it into the boil. It didn't showcase the wormwood flavor (I enjoy wormwood tea, actually - had some yesterday) but you could tell it was in there. To tell you truth, its presence oddly reminded me much more of what I would expect from horehound.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: Pinski on December 31, 2013, 02:01:37 AM
Have you had a juniper beer before? I tried one a friend made. Based on that example I would say the less you use the better. Zero would be optimum. But that's just me

Agreed.  I feel the same way about spruce.
Agreed on both counts.  Not a fan of either.
Yeah, to date the only batch I've ever made that i didn't want to drink was a "spruce" beer I made back in '92. In full disclosure the "spruce" was extract and I waaaayyyy overdid it.  Taste notes all included variations of the following without exception; evergreen, soil & compost.
Fortunately I had a gin loving buddy that took care of most of it and after about 6 months it mellowed but lesson learned. A little goes a long way.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on December 31, 2013, 02:38:31 AM
Well in the end I think bierwillumpie was right.  I put the berries in at 60 minutes.  The result is that I cannot tell there is any Juniper in there.  It's a decent beer though.  A typical IPA.  Next time I'll add them at 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: punatic on December 31, 2013, 04:20:49 AM
Do not brew with wormwood please, to dangerous believe me.

What do you base this admonishment on, 19th century absynthe hysteria?
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: ranchovillabrew on January 21, 2014, 05:32:00 AM
I just brewed a white sage and juniper IPA. Mammoth Mountain Brewing makes a DIPA called 395. Mine is more sage forward and lighter body and color than theirs. I used .5 oz juniper and .5 oz white sage at 5 minutes.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: yso191 on January 21, 2014, 02:46:07 PM
I just brewed a white sage and juniper IPA. Mammoth Mountain Brewing makes a DIPA called 395. Mine is more sage forward and lighter body and color than theirs. I used .5 oz juniper and .5 oz white sage at 5 minutes.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

Do report back on your results please.  Also, what flavor does white sage impart?
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: erockrph on January 22, 2014, 04:46:38 AM
I just brewed a white sage and juniper IPA. Mammoth Mountain Brewing makes a DIPA called 395. Mine is more sage forward and lighter body and color than theirs. I used .5 oz juniper and .5 oz white sage at 5 minutes.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk

Do report back on your results please.  Also, what flavor does white sage impart?

I have yet to brew with it myself, but Stillwater's "Cellar Door" is a saison brewed with white sage, and they really hit the right balance IMO. It has an almost incense-like quality to it, without overdoing the herbal character.

If sage is overdone, it can get real savory, which just doesn't work for me. Might as well just use Summit hops while you're at it and keep it for marinating meat.
Title: Re: Juniper berries
Post by: ranchovillabrew on January 30, 2014, 05:09:17 AM
My recipe.

I'm pretty happy with the results. Very herbal and floral. Missing some of the Pine from the hops as the sage dominates, but I think the sage will fade.



Brewer: Charles Villafana
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Color: 6.1 SRM
Bitterness: 79.1 IBUs
Est OG: 1.062 (15.1° P)
Est FG: 1.010 SG (2.6° P)
ABV: 6.8%

10 lbs   Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs   Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
8.0 oz   Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)


1.0 oz   Caliente [17.8%] - First Wort
0.23 tsp   Irish Moss (Boil 15 min)
0.50 oz   White Sage (Boil 0 min)
0.50 oz   Juniper Berries (Boil 0 min)
0.5 oz Each: Centennial, Chinook, Cascade - (Boil 0 min)
0.5 oz Each: Centennial, Chinook, Cascade - (After 30 min Hopstand)
0.5 oz Each: Centennial, Chinook, Cascade - (Dry Hop for 4 days, 3 days into primary)
0.5 oz Each: Centennial, Chinook, Cascade - (Dry Hop for 7 days, after 7 days in primary)
1 pkgs   California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) 1L Starter