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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: majorvices on November 24, 2013, 12:47:48 PM

Title: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: majorvices on November 24, 2013, 12:47:48 PM
Northern Brewer? Mount Hood?

I used to really like crystal (and still do for some applications) but it seems to have gotten more citrusy, or maybe I'm getting more sensitive.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 24, 2013, 12:59:10 PM
Mt. Hood for the Hallertau Mittelfrueh derivatives. I also like the rest; Liberty, Crystal, Ultra, Vangaurd. Agree that Crystal is citrusy, but I like that one to make a lager with an American twist.

Sterling is nice if you want a spicy noble derivative, it is from Saaz.

Played a little with Santium, it is a Tettnanger derivative.

Northern Brewer? Never heard that called Noble and it was bred in England.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: majorvices on November 24, 2013, 01:19:03 PM
I realize Northern Brewer was bread in England but it is mentioned for a Hallertau sub frequently which is why I asked. I don't have much experience with it, personally. I've used Mt. Hood with good results recently. Thanks for the feed back!
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 24, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
I like Sterling, Liberty, and Mt Hood pretty well.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 24, 2013, 01:57:59 PM
I realize Northern Brewer was bread in England but it is mentioned for a Hallertau sub frequently which is why I asked. I don't have much experience with it, personally. I've used Mt. Hood with good results recently. Thanks for the feed back!
I can't remember seeing it as a Hallertau (which one?) sub. It is grown in England, US, and Germany. The German one would be the one to try if you are subbing, terroir and all that. NB was one of the parents of Perle IIRC.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: dbarber on November 24, 2013, 01:59:38 PM
I've used Mt. Hood a lot as a sub for Hallertauer and sterling in my belgian beers.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: erockrph on November 24, 2013, 02:07:13 PM
I like Sterling a lot, but I get a lot of citrus out of it too. I like Ultra quite a bit as well. It has some Saaz in its lineage, and I definitely pick up some of that. I've gotten Ultra in the 7+ AA% range the past few years which is quite a bit higher than its published typical AA range.

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Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: troybinso on November 24, 2013, 04:18:15 PM
I used to really like crystal (and still do for some applications) but it seems to have gotten more citrusy, or maybe I'm getting more sensitive.

Funny thing with Crystal. I think it fits better with the other "C" hops in an IPA than in a traditional lager. I am not sure how it came to be so citrusy, but I really like it in an IPA.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: majorvices on November 24, 2013, 04:28:34 PM
I used to really like crystal (and still do for some applications) but it seems to have gotten more citrusy, or maybe I'm getting more sensitive.

Funny thing with Crystal. I think it fits better with the other "C" hops in an IPA than in a traditional lager. I am not sure how it came to be so citrusy, but I really like it in an IPA.

I agree! It's one of my "secret hops" in my IPA.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: reverseapachemaster on November 24, 2013, 04:44:43 PM
Sterling and Mount Hood. It's too bad that group of hops fell out of favor. It seems like they are getting rediscovered by some of the west coast brewers.

Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 24, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Mt Hood and Willamette are two biggies for me. Looking fwd to trying Sterling too.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: dmtaylor on November 24, 2013, 07:13:42 PM
I've read someplace that the perfect substitute for Mittelfrueh is a 50/50 blend of Mt. Hood and Liberty; however, my only experience is with Mt. Hood and I know it comes very very close all by itself.  Hallertauer is my favorite hop and I use it in almost every beer I make.  I always keep ample supply on hand, but in a pinch I would certainly run to Mt. Hood before anything else.  Or maybe Liberty just to try it out.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on November 24, 2013, 08:13:35 PM
Us Saaz that is Herertau bases. No Saaz in there at all.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: kmccaf on November 25, 2013, 01:57:19 AM
Northern Brewer? Mount Hood?

I used to really like crystal (and still do for some applications) but it seems to have gotten more citrusy, or maybe I'm getting more sensitive.

I love me some crystal, so I would put that as my favorite. While I do also get a little citrus from it, I still get mostly that delicious spice from it. Mt. Hood would be my second. Vanguard comes in third, with its really nice woody aroma. Crystal and Mt. Hood may just be my favorite hops. I feel I can use them in just about anything.

Looking forward to using some Santium, and Sterling this year. I have a Landbier and Czech Dark Lager coming up that I am looking to put a lot of noble derivatives in.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: anthony on November 25, 2013, 03:53:29 AM
I think Vanguard and Sterling both have a harshness to them. Back in the bad old days of the hop shortages I tried to use both of them as subs/replacements for Czech Saaz/Hallertau and they just weren't right. I think it might have something to do with the oil ratios. The total oils and the levels of Myrcene are both quite different versus true "noble" hops.

At my brewery I've kind of vacillated back and forth between hops like Mt. Hood and true noble hops like Hallertau/Saphir... I always come back to the true noble hops. They have a softness and a spiciness that I really enjoy in the beers I use them in.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: blatz on November 25, 2013, 03:18:32 PM
i like crystal and liberty, but also, i actually have liked US tettnang better than the original in recent years.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 25, 2013, 03:38:30 PM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: morticaixavier on November 25, 2013, 03:43:11 PM
I've just started experimenting with these varieties and I'm enjoying them a lot. I've tried liberty and sterling so far, I would agree that the sterling has a note of American style citrus hop but a lot of spice, at least the crop that I got. I'm going to be exploring them a lot more I think so this thread is timely for me.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: blatz on November 25, 2013, 03:47:30 PM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

If that is the case, I will retract my statement  :o ;D
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: Pinski on November 25, 2013, 04:29:21 PM
Well thinking about what I use the most of...
Mt. Hood, Liberty and Sterling.  My Mt. Hood and Sterling bines grow very well too.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: denny on November 25, 2013, 04:43:04 PM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

Yep.  Tastes like it, too.

IIRC, in a Zymurgy article about pils and hops, Ted Hausotter found Mt. Hood to be the closest to Mittelfruh.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 25, 2013, 05:09:01 PM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

Yep.  Tastes like it, too.

IIRC, in a Zymurgy article about pils and hops, Ted Hausotter found Mt. Hood to be the closest to Mittelfruh.

That was true. I think he also stated that if you want Hallertau Mittelfrueh, make sure that is what you are buying. Generic Hallertau could Hallertau Gold, Hallertau Tradition, or whatever the brokers ship.

Of the German varieties, I think Hallertau tradition is not too far off.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: denny on November 25, 2013, 05:30:58 PM
Of the German varieties, I think Hallertau tradition is not too far off.

Yeah, that's what I've found, too.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: bluesman on November 25, 2013, 06:03:21 PM
Mount Hood is a favorite for many styles. Liberty and Sterling tied for a close second. I think it depends from crop year to crop year too.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: chumley on November 26, 2013, 06:54:47 PM
American "noble" hops are okay in pale ales, American wheat beers and the like, but they ain't no substitution for the real McCoys.

Personally, I find Styrian Goldings to have more of a noble hop flavor/aroma than any of the so-called American "nobe" hops.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: denny on November 26, 2013, 07:22:34 PM
American "noble" hops are okay in pale ales, American wheat beers and the like, but they ain't no substitution for the real McCoys.

Personally, I find Styrian Goldings to have more of a noble hop flavor/aroma than any of the so-called American "nobe" hops.

Yeah, but you're a Fuggle lover!  :)
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: chumley on November 26, 2013, 08:43:57 PM
That is a fact. Give me dirt, leave the grapefruit behind. :)
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 27, 2013, 12:05:34 AM
It's not dirt, it's earthiness. You know, like a rotting fir stump with a mushroom growing on it, and Puck sitting next to it smoking a pipe. Dirt... ha!
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: denny on November 27, 2013, 05:04:42 PM
It's not dirt, it's earthiness. You know, like a rotting fir stump with a mushroom growing on it, and Puck sitting next to it smoking a pipe. Dirt... ha!

No, it's dirt....:)
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: ajk on December 03, 2013, 01:59:52 PM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

Yep.  Tastes like it, too.

This is interesting to hear because I've been using US Tettnang in German lagers (perhaps based on Paul's recommendation) and have been really pleased with the results.  The beers have also performed well in competitions.

Sounds like some triangle tests are in order!
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: Pi on December 11, 2013, 07:43:42 PM
I've been dry hopping alot lately using Zythos.I find it very pleasant.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: majorvices on December 13, 2013, 01:01:40 PM
I've been dry hopping alot lately using Zythos.I find it very pleasant.

Zythos? I'm talking noble hop here! Zythos is a blend, also, and I notice some changes the last couple years.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: Pinski on January 02, 2014, 01:24:15 AM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

Yep.  Tastes like it, too.

This is interesting to hear because I've been using US Tettnang in German lagers (perhaps based on Paul's recommendation) and have been really pleased with the results.  The beers have also performed well in competitions.

Sounds like some triangle tests are in order!

let's do it!
I'm making a Helles this Friday and was planning on using US Tettnang to give it a try.  Would we all need to brew the same recipe or just make some light lagers using the same hops?
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: ajk on January 02, 2014, 03:29:55 AM
Hasn't DNA testing shown US Tettnang to actually be Fuggles?

Yep.  Tastes like it, too.

This is interesting to hear because I've been using US Tettnang in German lagers (perhaps based on Paul's recommendation) and have been really pleased with the results.  The beers have also performed well in competitions.

Sounds like some triangle tests are in order!

let's do it!
I'm making a Helles this Friday and was planning on using US Tettnang to give it a try.  Would we all need to brew the same recipe or just make some light lagers using the same hops?

The best way would be for you to make double the wort and do two boils, one using US Tettnang and one using Fuggles.  When the beers are done, have someone serve you three unmarked samples, two of which are the same beer.  See if you can tell what's what.

If different brewers, systems, batches, etc., are involved, it's hard to tell if any differences between the beers were caused by the hops as opposed to some other factor.
Title: Re: What's your favorite American "noble" type hop?
Post by: pinnah on January 03, 2014, 03:26:51 PM
Another vote for Mt. Hood!  Easy to grow at my house.

The Crystal does not seem very noble-ish to me.

I think that Magnum used late has a lot of noble characteristics... ???  No....really.