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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: 1vertical on March 21, 2010, 04:28:59 PM

Title: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on March 21, 2010, 04:28:59 PM
i am considering making 15 gallons of rochefort in the venue of Herman Holtrop's recipe
fermenting it with the saccromyces to completion then rack it into an oak cask
that had red wine last on the wood (recently). Then I was going to put in a good amount
of Brettanomyces Lambicus and some tart cherries to see what happened when you
get carried away with an already great beer...... :-\
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: dj99 on March 21, 2010, 04:47:18 PM
Umm, how close are you to the NW?
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on March 21, 2010, 04:48:49 PM
I am in central bfe Whyoming...why?
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: dj99 on March 21, 2010, 04:53:13 PM
'cause I want a taste!  Why else?

Please let your mind take you wherever you want to go.  Sounds fantastic.  Do it!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: karlh on April 01, 2010, 07:36:13 PM
It sounds great, although it will probably take one hell of a lot of cherries, and you have to push them all through that little tiny bunghole with a stick or something.  Hopefully you have one or two trees and can dedicate the entire crop for a year or two, or you can order 30-40lbs from hops/cherries direct.  I might age the beer in oak with the brett and then rack 5 gallons onto cherries in a year or three.  I have found organic tart cherry extract/syrup (from Michigan I think) that came in quart bottles and claimed to be the equivalent of "3 gallons of cherry juice"... I think they cost around $15 or more a bottle.  I added one of these to a 5 gallon batch of lambic a few years back, along with a spice called mahlab, which is dried sour cherry pits (available from penzies spices and in ethnic markets with a middle eastern bent.... Turkish, Iraqi, Iranian, Pakistani, maybe Greek but they probably call it something else).  The overall effect was good (I would recommend the mahlab... it really adds a nutty thing that reminds me of good belgian cherry beers), but I felt like I would want to double the cherry in the next batch... for your 15 gallon barrel, that would be a $90 investment.  I'm not sure how many cherries you can fit in a 15 gallon barrel, but I would try to fill it for the maximum effect and then put a finished beer on top of it for an extended ferment (near a floor drain).
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on April 01, 2010, 10:48:27 PM
Thanks Karl, you have just assisted me in devising my methodology for
this project. I desired to try some non brett beer from this barrel.  I will harvest
a batch and replace it with a fresh batch and then put in the brett...a couple
months from now.  Then when cherries come into season bring them into
the arena...should be july/aug for sour cherries. thanks for the tip on
that spice and I will try to procure some of that in the interim. So many options so little time....
 ::)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: enso on April 02, 2010, 10:59:15 AM
Man you are making me drool every time I read about this project!

@ Karl.  I had not heard of mahlab before.  Though I have read somewhere IIRC that cherry pits are used to make an almond flavoring.  Is that what mahlab tastes like?

Man this sounds fantastic.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on April 02, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Please let your mind take you wherever you want to go.

Man, I'm already gone in my own mind!  :P :o :P :o

The rochefort is finishing primary as I type...
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: skyler on April 02, 2010, 11:17:45 AM
I had not heard of mahlab before.

Neither had I, and I'm 1/2 Iranian. I have learned that some spices have 2 names, though. What my mom calls, "Hell" (more like "Jel" in Spanish, actually, because it's a throaty "H" sound - I call cardamom. Mahlab might have a number of different names, depending on the primary ethnicity of the Market you go to. On the west coast, those markets nearly always have a decidedly Persian (Iranian/Afghani) or South Asian (Indian/Pakistani/Bengladeshi) feel.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: enso on April 02, 2010, 12:12:54 PM
I had not heard of mahlab before.

Neither had I, and I'm 1/2 Iranian. I have learned that some spices have 2 names, though. What my mom calls, "Hell" (more like "Jel" in Spanish, actually, because it's a throaty "H" sound - I call cardamom. Mahlab might have a number of different names, depending on the primary ethnicity of the Market you go to. On the west coast, those markets nearly always have a decidedly Persian (Iranian/Afghani) or South Asian (Indian/Pakistani/Bengladeshi) feel.

Well, there is also the consideration of translating from the original language(s) which can vary widely when adapting something from one language to another.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: karlh on April 03, 2010, 10:36:57 AM
Man you are making me drool every time I read about this project!

@ Karl.  I had not heard of mahlab before.  Though I have read somewhere IIRC that cherry pits are used to make an almond flavoring.  Is that what mahlab tastes like?

Man this sounds fantastic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahlab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahlab)

See link above for wiki discription.  I thought it added nice almondy...nuttiness, and everything I read was that the lambic makers used whole cherries with pits, and it was the easiest way for me to use the concentrated juice and still get the pits. 
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on April 06, 2010, 11:02:09 AM
On the record, The rochefort is in the oak!  That was a job and
a learning experience.  Lots of clean up now.

Let the Solera Roll!  8)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on April 06, 2010, 08:13:52 PM
I just got 1/2 # of Mahlab shipped to my addy for $20.00 thought that was a fair price.
Sounds like such a delicious addition....almond....cherry....mmmmmmm....going in the solera.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tom on April 07, 2010, 01:02:35 PM
A friend here uses 2# of cherries per gallon of kriek.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: resto3 on April 22, 2010, 09:12:12 AM
did the cherry pits come whole or ground?  I have a 5 gal barrle that I use for souring beers.  This sounds like a great project.  I wish I have a 15 gallon one.  Where did you get yours?

Richie
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on April 22, 2010, 10:17:23 AM
resto3,
I was advised to get the mahlab "whole" NOT ground because it looses flavor rapidly
after grinding.  I thought It would be no problem to put the whole seeds thru the
grain mill....Then I was gonna give em a little bath in some everclear just to be careful...

I got my oak cask from Vadai Wine
http://www.vadaiwinebarrels.com/ (http://www.vadaiwinebarrels.com/)
And I highly recommend them.  
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on May 08, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
Update,
Today I harvested 5 gallons of beer from Solera that has been in the oak about a month.

Here is the SpGr at this point...1.011 To my read...
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/OakRochefortPreCherry.jpg)

Added 1/2 lb of Mahleb AND almost 5 gallons of Sour Pie Cherries back to the barrel
along with 2 packages of Wyeast Lambicus and the dregs from a couple bottles of
Avery Depucleuse (sp).

by the way, the Monster 2 roller Malt mill handled the Mahleb nicely....then I put it all in a quart mason jar
and wet it down with everclear just to reduce the microbe presence from the cherry seeds.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on May 20, 2010, 10:12:44 PM
Today I topped up the Cask with some rochefort I made just for that purpose.
I have a couple airlocks in the bung and have everclear as the liquid in them.

Got home today and man did I ever get it topped off, the "s" bubblers were full
almost overflowing so I got a lil too much in the thing....I opened it up and pulled
a few sanitized wine thief draws out of the mix and snuck a taste...

I gotta tell you this is headed down a good direction for an interesting beer.
That maleb is a little overpowering now, but I think it will mellow as the brett
works. The cherries have started to get a little white pellicle appearance.

I get maleb up front on the palate, followed by cherry, and finish is like beer mixed
with maleb and cherry...the aroma is maleb. The finish is long and starting to sour already,
but the maleb balances the sourness in a nice way and it definately lends a neat aroma.
so it is like a 3 stranded braid of flavors and aroma. a tastebud olfactory carnival.
I await the 4th strand to manefest and that will be the oakiness in time, time, time.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on June 10, 2010, 11:19:30 AM
Here is that beer in my glass cold...it is backlit and clear, the haze is condensate.
Taste is great. Hope it gets better with the addition of cherries...(currently fermenting away)

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/OakedRochefortBacklit.jpg)

Anyone know if the cherries will be consumed by the bugs?

Brew on....Brew on..... 8)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on June 10, 2010, 12:01:01 PM
Here is that beer in my glass cold...it is backlit and clear, the haze is condensate.
Taste is great. Hope it gets better with the addition of cherries...(currently fermenting away)

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/OakedRochefortBacklit.jpg)

Anyone know if the cherries will be consumed by the bugs?

Brew on....Brew on..... 8)
Looks damn tasty. And yeah, the bugs will eat the cherries. I've heard if you leave them in long enough there will be nothing left but the pits.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on July 09, 2010, 10:40:42 AM
Sampled this beer today and got an update photo for you all...

the stuff is coming together nicely, NOT finished yet however.
Aroma is Cherry Pie, flavor is sour cherry for sure, and the mahleb finishes with a
nifty floral thing, not much oakiness yet....color has migrated from dark brown/red to lighter brown with red hues.
chunks of pellicle and mahleb floating around.

well if it ain't a prize winner, at least I think I can enjoy this! oh, and I have been known to share.
I think a couple more months might not be a bad thing for this beer.
 ;)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/CherryRochefortSample1.jpg)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on July 09, 2010, 10:49:16 AM
Sampled this beer today and got an update photo for you all...

the stuff is coming together nicely, NOT finished yet however.
Aroma is Cherry Pie, flavor is sour cherry for sure, and the mahleb finishes with a
nifty floral thing, not much oakiness yet....color has migrated from dark brown/red to lighter brown with red hues.
chunks of pellicle and mahleb floating around.

well if it ain't a prize winner, at least I think I can enjoy this! oh, and I have been known to share.
I think a couple more months might not be a bad thing for this beer.
 ;)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/CherryRochefortSample1.jpg)
Your camera focused on the pile of rocks/wood and not your glass. :) looks like a tasty beer either way, even if it is out of focus.  ;D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: pyrite on July 09, 2010, 02:55:17 PM
 Did you use any specialty malts or is the color contribution from the cherries alone.  Your beer looks like a good reddish/tan leather.  
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on July 09, 2010, 09:34:10 PM
Did you use any specialty malts or is the color contribution from the cherries alone.  Your beer looks like a good reddish/tan leather.  

Yes there are specialty malts and from the photo trail I show, it has changed from dark  ruby brown
to this lighter color must be from the cherries...tankdeer, that is really how it looked  NOT very clear yet.....
Look closely there are whitish flecks in it....pellicle and mehlab chunks...they are in focus.

goggle " herman holtrop rochefort" and that is the base recipe I follow sort of...
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on August 16, 2010, 10:13:07 AM
Update time...
The inside of the airspace in the cask has a nice white pellicle on the cherries and on the wood.
Inside the bung around the edge of the hole is a white ring...
I quickly stuck a wine thief in the thing and withdrew a sample and put it into my tulip glass.
1st thing that hits you is the aroma of the mahleb...almondy flowery nice.
then the beer's reddish hue and clarity come into focus a couple chunks of cherry floating around....
chewy beer lol...
It is developing a nice sour cherry flavor  with finish palate notes of almond. I got NO oak to speak of
yet...so it can just stay there a while.

Today I got 8# of frozen pitted balaton cherries from Scofield fruit in Colorado (mentioned here with owners permission).
My plan is to soon as I kick the keg of rochefort in the fridge,  harvest a goodly amount of the beer
from this cask, thaw those balatons, add them back to the barrel and then top off with some more rochefort.

Then, carb up the keg of my Kriek and enjoy it thru the dead of winter....grin.... ;D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: brewmonk on August 18, 2010, 03:32:54 AM
Wow! Sounds like a lot of work, but it also sounds like it is definitely worth it.  Wish I could sample some.  I think you're in for a pretty merry Christmas ;D .  Cheers!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 26, 2010, 06:18:11 AM
"bump"
Sampled this last night. Pulled one wine thief out and dropped it into a tumbler.
Chunks of white pellicle were clinging to the glass of the thief...
Color is rust...migrated away from the dark tones of the rochefort base to a lighter redish hue.
Aroma at first resembled vinegar...but not strongly...faintly...then after the pull sat in the air
for 5 mins or so, the aroma was very floral and laced with the smell of the mahleb.
No vinegar at all...(may have been gasses from the headspace/oak)

The taste was at first kind of a vacuum...your mind questioning ....what was THAT???
Then suddenly the sour bret character takes ahold and it is distinctly tart and dry...fruity
yep pie cherry fruity..pleasant. Oak comes in the mix somewhere and is noticeable to me now.
 The mahleb then comes thru with the almond/pit note and it lingers on your palate for
20-30 mins...pleasantly dancing on the taste buds...after taste is strong and long...

Never tasted anything like this before....It should prolly come out of the cask soon an I hope
to make a pull when I get another keg kicked.
Then I will replace the pull with 8# of frozen pitted balaton cherries and top up with some more
rochefort that I brewed for that purpose...another stint in the barrel and we will see what comes out next pull.......
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on September 26, 2010, 09:35:59 AM
Wow, sounds delicious. You're making me thirsty.  ;D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 26, 2010, 05:23:46 PM
Wow, sounds delicious. You're making me thirsty.  ;D
I would give ya a taste tankdeer if you could pull yourself out of the  texas sand and visit the prarie
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on September 26, 2010, 08:42:35 PM
Texas? No sir. Only a couple thousand miles away.  ;D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 27, 2010, 03:41:38 AM
Texas? No sir. Only a couple thousand miles away.  ;D
no matter offer still stands
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on September 27, 2010, 05:21:26 AM
Love that color.  I want to try making something similiar.  Sounds and looks tasty.

Where did you get 5 gallons of sour pie cherries?

Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 27, 2010, 05:52:44 AM
Love that color.  I want to try making something similiar.  Sounds and looks tasty.

Where did you get 5 gallons of sour pie cherries?


Canned whole pie cherries in water...from a personal friend that is connected
to a restaurant...they were brought by Sysco foods.. 6ea. #303 cans =approx 5 gal.=case lot
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on September 27, 2010, 06:07:58 AM
Would you mind posting your recipe?

Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 27, 2010, 07:02:18 AM
Would you mind posting your recipe?


It is simply Herman Holtrop's Rochefort clone recipe...(google that)I made 10 gallons of it.
to which I added one half pound of mahleb. EDIT: NOT in the boil but in the cask=secondary.
 The mahleb was bought whole and I put the cherry pit hearts through the grain mill and then
 wet it good with everclear to keep it sanitized...added that to the cask.

Next I added the canned cherries and 2 packs of WY Bret Lambicus and the dregs from
several bottles of Avery Depuceleuse (limited bbl release can't help you with that one).
That's it....(you could lower the mahleb to 1/4 pound and still be ok...that stuff is strong)

Method is kind of weird with the Oak cask...first I put the beer in that new oak bbl for a month...then
I pulled 5 gallons of that out and carbed it up...that pull made the room for the above additions....so I suppose
you could get similar results with carboy or corny ageing with oak cubes. Just brew 5 gal. of the base beer,
add 1/8 pound of the mahleb and one pack of bret and 2.5 gal of canned cherries...that will be very close I'd imagine.

Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on September 27, 2010, 07:08:45 AM
Thanks.  Looking good.  8)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on September 27, 2010, 08:11:13 AM
Texas? No sir. Only a couple thousand miles away.  ;D
no matter offer still stands

Perhaps someday. :)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on September 27, 2010, 10:15:07 AM
Thanks.  Looking good.  8)
Let me know if ya take the plunge....  :D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on September 27, 2010, 11:49:34 AM
Thanks.  Looking good.  8)
Let me know if ya take the plunge....  :D

Will do...hopefully by the winter.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: karlh on September 28, 2010, 09:44:50 AM
Its been awhile since I contributed to this thread, but thought I would add that when I used Mahlab previously I did not grind it.  I just added the pits to the fermenter and left things alone.  For what its worth, I have recently added whole cherries and concentrate to 10 gallons of 3-year-old lambic in an oak barrel.  The cloudy appearance and little floating colonies are very similar to the photos above.  I have not been tasting as much, and plan on letting things settle and clear before I rack anything. I am, however looking forward to the day it clears and I have kriek on draft.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 03, 2010, 10:23:07 AM
Update time....
Today I harvested 5 Gallons out of the Solera.
Spgr 1.006
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Kriek2010SPGr.jpg)

Here is a photo of the Harvest as it was going down...
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/hARVESTkRIEK2010.jpg)
I hooked a buffer Keg up to recieve the gas from my keg manifold...and then filled that mt keg
with CO2 then pushed it straight on over to the Solera...gas in .....Beer out which you can
see in this photo of the plumbing.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/HarvestPlumbing2010.jpg)

I got the keg of Kriek in the referigerator under 25 Psi...to carb it up .... 8)

Edit: Back in the mix today went 8# of Frozen/Thawed Balaton Cherries and a Quart of pie cherry juice
left over from the 1st fill AND about 4 gallons more of Rochefort that I brewed as a top off beer...worked NICE.
Busy mornin in the brewery....some clean up left to do...
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on October 03, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
Looking good!

Where did you get the barrel and stand setup?  I like that... :)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 03, 2010, 10:33:59 AM
Looking good!

Where did you get the barrel and stand setup?  I like that... :)
Ron, Where ya been??
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1834.0 (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1834.0)
I built it a while back...pix are here ::)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on October 03, 2010, 10:46:33 AM
Looking good!

Where did you get the barrel and stand setup?  I like that... :)
Ron, Where ya been??
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1834.0 (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1834.0)
I built it a while back...pix are here ::)

I was busy that day.  ;D

Nice build!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 10, 2010, 12:04:02 PM
1st 5 gallon pull out of the solera...carbed for a week in the corny keg @ 25 psi CO2
Here is the money shot...lol

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Kriekfirstpull2010.jpg)

Taste is sour cherry aroma is heavenly floral and lingers long on the taste buds.
I am well pleased and blessed to have this beer to enjoy.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on October 10, 2010, 05:13:25 PM
1st 5 gallon pull out of the solera...carbed for a week in the corny keg @ 25 psi CO2
Here is the money shot...lol

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Kriekfirstpull2010.jpg)

Taste is sour cherry aroma is heavenly floral and lingers long on the taste buds.
I am well pleased and blessed to have this beer to enjoy.

That's a thing of beauty. Send me a bottle.  :)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: redbeerman on October 11, 2010, 10:29:03 AM
1st 5 gallon pull out of the solera...carbed for a week in the corny keg @ 25 psi CO2
Here is the money shot...lol

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Kriekfirstpull2010.jpg)

Taste is sour cherry aroma is heavenly floral and lingers long on the taste buds.
I am well pleased and blessed to have this beer to enjoy.

That's a thing of beauty. Send me a bottle.  :)


That would be, "Send me a bottle, please" ;)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: rabid_dingo on October 14, 2010, 04:08:06 PM
When you coming down to FOCO again? That sounds and looks ever so delish...
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 14, 2010, 09:31:06 PM
When you coming down to FOCO again? That sounds and looks ever so delish...

Thanx Ruben,
Always hope to get that journey in the mix...just that now the mix dictates that I get ready for winter....
infrastructure duties call....If possible I will dial you in on a taste, not a problem with willingness, just
logistically challenged right now.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on May 01, 2011, 10:35:51 AM
Second Harvest went down today. Another 6 months in the oak.  Here are the pix.
Flavor is VERY Sour Cherry the Mahleb has diminished. Aroma is cherry...the taste
is so sour pie almost want some sweetening but not gonna....also got a shot of the pellicle
floating on the top of the beer in the oak....enjoy.... ;D
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/PellicleCherryBBL.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/RocheCherryFG2.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Kreik2ndHarvest.jpg)

Glass is the hyd. tube contents and lighting is wrong because it does not seem that dark.
Edit: Amazing was the quantity that went to the angel's share they were thirsty!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tankdeer on May 01, 2011, 10:39:18 AM
Ugh, I need to get my hands on a barrel. Well done sir.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on May 01, 2011, 05:30:57 PM
Beautiful sight my freind. You are making me jealous. I need a barrel.  :)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tomsawyer on May 02, 2011, 08:16:10 PM
Guess its about time for me to pull another draw out of mine.  I still have a few bottles of the first pull though.

I'm sure your cherries are on the bottom of the barrel.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on May 14, 2011, 02:32:01 PM
Second Pull Chilled and Carbonated, Clear and red, tart and cherry
Good stuff my friends.... More like a Sour cherry soft drink than a 9% AVB Beer. Sneaky! ;D
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/2ndPullKriek.jpg)

For some reason, difficult to photograph. I will try again on a sunny day.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tygo on May 14, 2011, 05:14:49 PM
How many volumes do you have that carbed up to?  Looks kinda effervescent from the picture.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on May 14, 2011, 05:42:50 PM
Yeah, I had good volumes yesterday, and today it was over where I wanted it....
I bled off a little and it will get down from that pic. You are spot on with your
"looks like" cause it was a bit much.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: tygo on May 14, 2011, 05:54:38 PM
Well, that's easy to fix anyway.  Very nice looking beer.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: Paul Gagnon on June 30, 2011, 01:50:12 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I'm about to do a special commemorative sour beer project and this looks amazing. Some great ideas.

Do you ever plan to just drain the rest and start over fresh, or keep doing the solara method? Seems like you'd build up too much cherry pulp at some point
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on June 30, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I'm about to do a special commemorative sour beer project and this looks amazing. Some great ideas.

Do you ever plan to just drain the rest and start over fresh, or keep doing the solara method? Seems like you'd build up too much cherry pulp at some point

I am only too glad to share this thread it IS a great journey.  IMO, the beer will be the thing to govern the
answer to your question.  As long as I like the taste of the liquid harvests, It stays in the Oak. FWIW, I
think that perhaps the Lambicus bret has given enough cherry character to the environment that whatever goes in
will be remnant of that flavor.  And another venue is to keep souring that barrel as there are lots of other
directions that I could proceed.  Pediococcus, and maybe the Bug Farm strain keep going sour....time
and the beer will tell.

Edit: The bugs will work on the cherry solids and I will not perhaps need to add  more fruit for a while.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: scooter2374 on July 03, 2011, 04:39:28 PM
The beer and the experience seem delightful. Thanks for sharing with us
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: intrinsic on August 20, 2011, 12:29:38 PM
Second Pull Chilled and Carbonated, Clear and red, tart and cherry
Good stuff my friends.... More like a Sour cherry soft drink than a 9% AVB Beer. Sneaky! ;D
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/2ndPullKriek.jpg)

For some reason, difficult to photograph. I will try again on a sunny day.


Oh that looks awesome! I need to try my hand at making a sour beer.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on August 20, 2011, 12:37:30 PM
Wes, Did I ever tell you to dim your headlights??  ::)

Oh, BTW,  Thanx
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: intrinsic on August 20, 2011, 12:40:15 PM
Wes, Did I ever tell you to dim your headlights??  ::)

Oh, BTW,  Thanx

LOL. Hey let me know when you plan on coming down this way again and maybe we can meet up for a beer or two.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on August 20, 2011, 12:42:16 PM
Be my Pleasure!  ;D
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on December 29, 2011, 02:26:27 PM
Update again. Brewed a beer in prep for an upcoming Harvest out of the Oak.
Here is the O.G. shot. Same base beer I have put in here all along
just one more time. Been over 6 months since I sampled hope it is ok in there.
That seems like a long time.  Anyhow, the solera continues...... :P
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Rochefort2011soleraog.jpg)
Edit: Today 1.07.12          F.G.  rang in at 1.010 for abv of 6.7% this is fine beer for the oak. That D2 syrup
makes a nice flavorful beer and Herman Holtrop's rochefort clone is a good un!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on January 08, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
Well harvest time 2012. F.G. is at 1.005 ish and the beer is mighty tastey.
I  pulled pushed 5 gallons out. The keg on the right is the gas buffer keg and pressure
is low at about 4 psi....that gas goes into the top of the cask and pushes
beer out the racking cane into the keg on the left....that exhausts from the
pop off press relief valve. I tied a paint strainer bag on to the racking cane
and sanitized it before immersion. Used dental floss to tie it with. Keeps
the thing from plugging up with cherry residuals. The floss provides a means to extract the
paint strainer bag should it decide to wander off and the floss is long enough to hang down
the side of the cask.
 enjoy,...,.,,. ;D
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/SoleraHarvest2012.jpg)
Racked that base beer above into the cask and will top off with some other ales I
have around here that need someplace to live.  Next pull will be more of a blend .....  
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: morticaixavier on January 08, 2012, 03:45:13 PM
that's very cool! so do you ferment the base beer first or just add the wort to the barrel?
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: jamminbrew on January 08, 2012, 03:52:39 PM
Very nice... I'm jealous!   
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on January 08, 2012, 05:08:35 PM
that's very cool! so do you ferment the base beer first or just add the wort to the barrel?
The oak is for secondary or tertiary holding. Primary in buckets.  BTW from un biased
sources of samplers this beer is to die for good. Wish you all could sample this
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: bluesman on January 08, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
Very nice work Dave...I Iike your techniques. I plan to incorporate your transfer method for my barrel.  :)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on July 14, 2012, 08:51:19 AM
UPDATE:
Pulled 5 gallons out of the solera late last winter. Finally got it rotated into the
serving fridge this week. Here is a pic of the current pull from this project.
Suffice it to say it is NOT a bad experience.  And it is a taste experience to be
treasured for certain. 
Light ring of foam around the periphy of the glass lasts a long time.
Tart sour cherry. The mahleb has a little bitter almond note coming thru.
I would buy this if it were available commercially.....enjoy....
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/CherryBeerSolara12.jpg)
Glass got coated with condensate b4 i shot the pic and the color is a bit more rosy than the pic.
Alcohol is definately in there for sure....sneaky
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: morticaixavier on October 26, 2012, 03:28:19 PM
Well, I can now say first hand that this is an amazing brew!

1Vert was kind enough to do a bottle swap with me and I got to sample this beer last night. yummers!

The cherry character was present in both the aroma and the flavour but never made such a huge impact that you would say 'oh cherry beer'.

The sour/funky level was just about perfect with some pleasent funky notes but not over the top FUNK (think Red Hot Chili Peppers rather than Parlament Funkadelic) and the sourness was just enough to complement the tartness from the cherries.

Really well done. I am super jealous that there is a house in BFE Whyoming with gallons and gallons of this beer available and I am stuck in effing northern california with just boring old Russian River to drink  ;)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: euge on October 26, 2012, 04:37:41 PM
He was also kind enough to share this exceptional beer with me!

No head but this was expected. Faint cherry wood-like nose which evolved into almond amarettoesque characteristics.

Darkish but totally bright with subdued carbonation- not by any means flat but not overly fizzy. One is able to taste this beer.

Vanilla cream almond cherry pie. Or cherry pie ala mode. I was thinking pastry? with the first several sips trying to nail down the flavors. Subtle yet complex. Faint woody earthy notes but without the oaky tannins I was expecting. I would have never been able to tell it was aged in oak. No sense of the 9% abv, and yet this is the only bitterness present that I can tell. Little to no hop bitterness. Faintly sour- not sweet at all yet manages to convey itself as such- I suggested this as an after dinner drink in small quantities.

I didn't think it was funky at all and sipped on it for 45 minutes as the brew warmed. The best sour beer I've ever had.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lpCaxXUx1aw/UIsZZ-gTe-I/AAAAAAAAAjk/P-3wxDzkwbQ/s611/IMG_20121026_164158.jpg)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 27, 2012, 06:11:51 PM
Thank you
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a87/Vertical1/Dancer.gif)
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: pyrite on October 27, 2012, 07:17:26 PM
"canned whole pie cherries in water...from a personal friend that is connected
to a restaurant...they were brought by Sysco foods.. 6ea. #303 cans =approx 5 gal.=case lot

The mahleb was bought whole and I put the cherry pit hearts through the grain mill and then
 wet it good with everclear to keep it sanitized...added that to the cask."



jezus! Good to know canned cherries are just as good.
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 27, 2012, 07:50:02 PM
There was another addition of fresh frozen pitted Balaton Cherries from Colorado
the following season.....F.Y.I.   :P

Edit: Back in the mix today went 8# of Frozen/Thawed Balaton Cherries and a Quart of pie cherry juice
left over from the 1st fill AND about 4 gallons more of Rochefort that I brewed as a top off beer...worked NICE.
Busy mornin in the brewery....some clean up left to do...
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: pyrite on October 27, 2012, 09:29:33 PM
Will the cherries from each addition stay in the barrel for as long as you cycle this particular style in the solera barrel?

Great thread BTW!
Title: Re: sour cherry rochefort brett in oak
Post by: 1vertical on October 27, 2012, 10:44:48 PM
thanks. the cherries will remain in the solera. Someday, I think this may need to be retired.....like me.
I had designs on adding other bugs to it like pedio etc. but I am not certain of that now...