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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: edvinjonsson on November 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AM

Title: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: edvinjonsson on November 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AM
I'll be leaving town for a week in a couple days, and I have a one week old WY3711 starter in the fridge that I want to use before I go. Unfortunately, I just checked and I only have 2 lbs of 2-Row and no pilsner malt. And There's no LHBS here so I'd need to order by mail. :-[

I do have some other grains I can use, I have some Munich and Vienna (from Weyermann), some wheat and rye malts, flaked wheat, oats and corn, and some 6-row. I also have lots of specialty malts and A LOT of different hops. Any recommendations? Wait until I get back and buy some pilsner malt? :-\

This is for a 5 gallon batch.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: jamminbrew on November 26, 2013, 04:37:01 AM
Sounds like a good time to experiment...  I would use the 2-row, add some 6-row, and maybe a pound each of Munich and Vienna. A pound of flaked wheat. Some crystal for color?
Or you could shelve the started in your fridge, and make a new starter when you return.
Personally, I would throw some stuff together and see what happened. 
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: troybinso on November 26, 2013, 04:40:52 AM
Saison doesn't require a specific grain bill based on Pilsner malt. Historically it was truly a "farmhouse ale" using malted and unmalted grains from the farm. I have made a saison with 5 different types of grain that turned out great. Look up the Crooked Stave brewery's recipes for some inspiration.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: Mark G on November 26, 2013, 05:08:20 AM
You don't need to use pilsner malt to make a Saison. Blend the 2 row and 6 row for your base malt, then pick a couple other grains you'd like to highlight and add them in a smaller percentage. Just avoid crystal malts or anything that will leave residual sweetness. You want a dry finish.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: erockrph on November 26, 2013, 05:45:22 AM
The yeast is what drives a Saison. While I find that a Pils malt driven saison tastes most like a traditional Saison to me, the style is really wide open. If you want something traditional, then wait till you can get some pilsner malt. If not, then bombs away.

I think an all-Vienna saison would be a great beer. Wheat and rye always work well in a saison, too. Aromatic is a nice touch if you have that available as well.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: singletrack brewer on November 26, 2013, 12:02:13 PM
Agreed on what everyone else has said above.  If you get a chance read the book Farmhouse Ales by Phil Markowski and you will see that the beers were brewed with whatever the farmers had on hand.  I'd suggest mashing long and low to get a very fermentable wort.  Something like 145 degrees for 90 minutes, I find that it works well and I get a nice dry finish that way.  Vienna, wheat and rye would get my vote for a grain bill.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 26, 2013, 12:34:18 PM
Good advice by all.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: majorvices on November 26, 2013, 01:24:53 PM
+1 - I have done pale, amber, red and black saisons of varying gravities over the years. Have fun with it!
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: reverseapachemaster on November 26, 2013, 03:27:39 PM
A simple starting point for a saison recipe is 5-10% munich, 5-15% wheat malt and the rest pils or two row, so you definitely have the right grains to make lots of different saisons. Since I like vienna, I'd probably go with something like:

50% two row
35% vienna
5% munich
10% wheat malt

But you could easily use your oats, rye, unmalted wheat and corn, in addition to or in exchange for any of those grains. My only guideline would be to go easy on the munich with a lot of two row because the two row will give you an overall sweeter flavor than munich with pilsner.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: edvinjonsson on November 26, 2013, 07:27:02 PM
Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely brew something tomorrow. I was thinking of using some rye malt, I've never brewed a rye saison before. How much would it be okay to use?
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: bluesman on November 26, 2013, 07:34:52 PM
Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely brew something tomorrow. I was thinking of using some rye malt, I've never brewed a rye saison before. How much would it be okay to use?

Rye would compliment the spicy notes from the yeast. I recommend at least 25%. You should also consider using some rice hulls with rye malt, as it tends to inhibit (sticky/gummy consistency) the lautering process.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: denny on November 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
IMO, Drew is the go to man for saison ideas.  Check this out...

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/2499/MJzym08_Saisons.pdf
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: bluesman on November 26, 2013, 09:40:32 PM
IMO, Drew is the go to man for saison ideas.  Check this out...

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/2499/MJzym08_Saisons.pdf

+1

Great resource.
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: gmac on November 27, 2013, 01:33:34 AM
I don't disagree with anyone that has posted above but you said the yeast is only a week old?  Do you normally do a starter?  If you wait a week, it won't be the end of the world compared to the viability now, particularly if you usually do a starter.
I don't want you to lose the yeast but 2 weeks old is nothing if you don't have the ingredients you want.  I love the idea of a rye saison and I'm actually intrigued to start one myself but I don't think it's worth rushing just to hit some arbitrary deadline for the yeast. 
Now if you made a starter a week ago and need to use it, that's a different story.

Never mind, just re-read your original post and you said "STARTER".  Can't read apparently. 
Of course you could resurrect a starter when you get home...
Title: Re: Recommendations for a saison
Post by: dbeechum on November 27, 2013, 08:46:43 PM
IMO, Drew is the go to man for saison ideas.  Check this out...

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/2499/MJzym08_Saisons.pdf

+1

Great resource.

Love that article - hard to believe it was 5 years ago. Would be great to get the other article up on the free zymurgy side of things as well.