Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: gymrat on November 26, 2013, 11:06:39 PM

Title: Saison with a twist
Post by: gymrat on November 26, 2013, 11:06:39 PM
Any reason that this would be a bad idea? I am planning on using Lallemand Belle Saison yeast but beersmith doesn't have an option for that so I substituted Nottingham just to have something in there.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Farmhouse Ale
Brewer: Roger
Asst Brewer: Ralph the Wonderdog
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 75.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        57.1 %       
3 lbs                 White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)               Grain         2        28.6 %       
8.0 oz                Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)                 Grain         3        4.8 %         
0.50 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - First Wort 60. Hop           4        24.4 IBUs     
1 lbs                 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)          Sugar         5        9.5 %         
1.00 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min  Hop           6        22.0 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min  Hop           7        16.1 IBUs     
1.50 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min   Hop           8        13.2 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 m Yeast         9        -             


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: thebigbaker on November 26, 2013, 11:29:49 PM
Looks good to me.  That's more IBUs than I've ever put into a Saison and not sure I've had a commercial version like that either.  I've used Belle Saison a couple of times and have been very happy with it.

I'm no expert, but if it were me and I was using that much hops, I would raise the malt bill to get closer to an OG of 1.070 or just cut out the 15 and 10 minute hops and had them at flameout. 
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 26, 2013, 11:46:41 PM
I like the looks of the grist.  But it is a high IBU level in a beer that finishes so low.  I think my last one had ~ 32 IBUs, with an oz of Nelson @ 20 mins and 2 or 2.5 oz more @ flameout.  The combo of Nelson + Saison yeast is a pretty darn good one though !
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: gymrat on November 27, 2013, 12:00:04 AM
The IBUs are double for the style but I love em and wanted to make sure I can taste them. I think I would rather cut back on the hops than raise the ABV though.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: Stevie on November 27, 2013, 01:07:13 AM
I would lose the corn sugar. I personally never use it in my saisons.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 27, 2013, 01:16:08 AM
I've used a lb and had good results, but I've left it out of the last couple.  Mashing low and using plenty of good yeast gets it there for me.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: gymrat on November 27, 2013, 01:55:25 AM
I have this pound of corn sugar. I dont remember how I got it. But I thought this might be a good way to use it up.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: jamminbrew on November 27, 2013, 02:00:10 AM
I like the idea of using the Nelson Sauvin in it. Sounds good to me!
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: HoosierBrew on November 27, 2013, 02:03:34 AM
The grape notes in Nelson work really well with a saison yeast, many of which finish kind of tart. I like it best with WY3724 but have liked Nelson with other yeasts too.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: morticaixavier on November 27, 2013, 02:34:28 AM
The grape notes in Nelson work really well with a saison yeast, many of which finish kind of tart. I like it best with WY3724 but have liked Nelson with other yeasts too.

+1 to this. I recently had a saison with nelson and it was divine. I think of saison, at least the lighter ones, are really similar to bright, dry, crisp white wines and nelson is all about the white wine/grape thing
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: reverseapachemaster on November 27, 2013, 03:53:33 PM
I've had a couple saisons with Nelson Sauvin that I liked. One also had muscat grape juice so the white wine character came through as a dominant flavor. It was good.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: kramerog on November 27, 2013, 04:00:44 PM
The IBUs are double for the style but I love em and wanted to make sure I can taste them. I think I would rather cut back on the hops than raise the ABV though.

I used one ounce of Nelson Sauvin (perhaps as a dryhop) in a saison and I could easily taste it. 

Also why don't you add Belle Saison to your yeast list?
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: gymrat on November 27, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
The IBUs are double for the style but I love em and wanted to make sure I can taste them. I think I would rather cut back on the hops than raise the ABV though.

I used one ounce of Nelson Sauvin (perhaps as a dryhop) in a saison and I could easily taste it. 

Also why don't you add Belle Saison to your yeast list?

I haven't figured out how.
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: dbeechum on November 27, 2013, 08:44:36 PM
I haven't figured out how.

Go to the Ingredients tab - choose Yeast. Click on the "Home" tab up at the top and you should see a button that looks like a yeast vial labelled "Add Yeast".

It's mildly counterintutive
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: gymrat on November 27, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
Thankyou. I couldn't find the attenuation stats on Belle yeast so I don't know how accurate the predictions will be.

Here is my current revised recipe btw

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Farmhouse Ale
Brewer: Roger
Asst Brewer: Ralph the Wonderdog
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.70 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.20 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6 lbs                 Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        57.1 %       
3 lbs                 White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)               Grain         2        28.6 %       
8.0 oz                Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)                 Grain         3        4.8 %         
1 lbs                 Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)          Sugar         4        9.5 %         
0.50 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min  Hop           5        11.0 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min  Hop           6        16.1 IBUs     
1.50 oz               Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min   Hop           7        13.2 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Belle Saison (Lallemand #)               Yeast         8        -             


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.0 oz
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: resto3 on November 29, 2013, 12:50:06 PM
Drop the corn sugar and reduce the IBUs a bit and you have a very nice Grissette recipe!!  My recipe for Grissette is 7# Pilsner and 3# Wheat.  I also step mash as per the schedule outlined in Farmhouse Ales which makes the beer nice and fermentable and I also used the Belle Saison Dry Yeast with great results.

Let us know how it turns out!!

CHEERS!
Title: Re: Saison with a twist
Post by: bboy9000 on November 29, 2013, 01:16:17 PM
I wouldn't be afraid to use the original hop schedule.  Although Nelson is a high alpha acid hop it is low in cohumelone so shouldn't be harsh and is a good hop in a Saison.  Also, you originally had almost 90% of your hops added in the last 15 minutes which is going to add aroma more than bitterness and aroma fades with time anyway.  You also have a 1/2 pound of aromatic which I think would add some maltiness to stand up to the hops.  Just my two cents.