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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 12, 2013, 10:02:10 PM

Title: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 12, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
I feel like ive got most every issue resolved (at least for now and as far as im concerned for what matters to me) except for trub in my kettle making it to my carboy. I have 2 kettles - 1 with spigot and one without. ive tried whirlfloc, irsh moss, and using nothing, Ive tried whirl-pooling....and at the end of the day i still cant avoid the trub making its way to my carboy.

i'm not sure in my experience it matters or not....some batches have had more trub than others, and yet im not sure it changed the taste or quality of the finished product.

any thoughts on how to solve the trub issue, or thoughts on if i should bother - curious about what others think and practice.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: davidgzach on December 12, 2013, 10:17:20 PM
IMHO, RDWHAHB.....it doesn't really matter.  I do my best to keep the trub out and sometimes it finds it's way in.  The beer is never of less quality.

Dave
Title: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: tommymorris on December 12, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
I also have never had success whirlpooling. I pour everything in the fermenter.

I don't notice any negative effects.

It does make yeast washing more difficult. I don't wash yeast though. I have taken part of the slurry and pitched that into another beer.  Also no negative effects noticed (except even more trub).
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: morticaixavier on December 12, 2013, 11:42:49 PM
I whirlpool (well I stir really well and let everything settle) but I also tip the kettle a bit towards the bottom and get somewhere between leaving the trub behind and carrying some of it over to the fermenter I don't really think it matters one way or another except in how easy it is to transfer to the keg with minimal carryover.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: Stevie on December 12, 2013, 11:43:15 PM
Every so often I get an awesome cone from my whirlpool and transfer off great looking beer. It restores my faith in the procedure. Otherwise, ehh.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: jamminbrew on December 12, 2013, 11:43:28 PM
James Spencer of Basic Brewing Radio did an experiment a while ago, where they brewed beers with and without the trub in the fermenters. The beer with the trub apparently had a better flavor and aroma, but I think the difference was slight. A small amount of trub is beneficial, as it adds some nutrients for the yeast. (At least, that's my understanding) If you can leave some or most behind in the kettle, don't worry about some making it in to the fermenter.
+1 to the yeast washing, I find it much easier to do without trub.

I don't have a spigot or valve on my kettle, so I use a siphon to transfer from kettle to carboy. I keep the bottom of the siphon just below the surface of the wort, to help avoid picking up too much trub. Once it gets low, about a gallon remaining, I drop it all the way in to get a little of the trub purposely. Most stays behind, but I like to have some in the carboy.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 13, 2013, 12:00:11 AM
I also siphon out of a stirred kettle, getting pretty clean wort.  But I spent years not doing that and can see no difference at all. Interesting to hear about the Better Brewing Radio thing. I get good, clear beer either way.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: jamminbrew on December 13, 2013, 12:21:37 AM
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/02-23-12-trub-experiment-results/id75092679?i=110794087&mt=2

I hope this is the link for the podcast... Anyways, you can search it on itunes, it's the podcast from 2/23/12, trub experiment results. Basic Brewing Radio.
Also, the 1/05/12 podcast has more info
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 13, 2013, 12:24:40 AM
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/02-23-12-trub-experiment-results/id75092679?i=110794087&mt=2

I hope this is the link for the podcast... Anyways, you can search it on itunes, it's the podcast from 2/23/12, trub experiment results. Basic Brewing Radio.
Also, the 1/05/12 podcast has more info


Definitely gonna check it out.  Thanks a lot  !
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: majorvices on December 13, 2013, 12:32:31 AM
My general rule has always been leave as much behind as you can but don't stress about it. As was said, some trub is good for yeast health. As far as "better flavor" goes, I haven't listened to that pod cast but "better flavor" is not only subjective but may have nothing to with trub. I have made taken 2 carboys and split a 5 gallon batch between and pitched "the same" amount of yeast and aerated "the same" amount and inevitably one carboy way always better than the other. So I rarely buy those types of experiments. FWIW.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 13, 2013, 12:37:23 AM
I use a false bottom in the kettle, then strain into the fermenter through a double mesh strainer, because it gives me nice yeast cakes for repitching.  I don't repitch dry hopped beers, because I typically dry hop in the primary.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: erockrph on December 13, 2013, 12:43:33 AM
I'm brewing 3 gallon batches on my stovetop, and use a cold water bath in my sink to chill. So unless I'm brewing a beer with a crapload of kettle hops I just dump the majority into the fermenter. Towards the bottom I slow down my pour and stop once I seem to be pouring off more trub than wort. I still get quite a bit of trub in the fermenter, but I've never noticed any issues.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 13, 2013, 12:44:52 AM
I have made taken 2 carboys and split a 5 gallon batch between and pitched "the same" amount of yeast and aerated "the same" amount and inevitably one carboy way always better than the other.

That is a good point.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: klickitat jim on December 13, 2013, 01:32:53 AM
My only thought on boil trube is that it ends up on the yeast cake. So don't consider your repitch as pure yeast.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 13, 2013, 02:17:04 AM
My general rule has always been leave as much behind as you can but don't stress about it. As was said, some trub is good for yeast health. As far as "better flavor" goes, I haven't listened to that pod cast but "better flavor" is not only subjective but may have nothing to with trub. I have made taken 2 carboys and split a 5 gallon batch between and pitched "the same" amount of yeast and aerated "the same" amount and inevitably one carboy way always better than the other. So I rarely buy those types of experiments. FWIW.

great comments on the post from everyone - i dont wash yeast, so i guess the only thing i've read that seemed potentially troubling when it comes to trub, was too much of the gummy proteins and their impact on yeast cells..... i know nothing about this so just stating that what ive read a few different sources out there.  seems to be my experience that it doesn't impact much of anything i can determine at this point.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: majorvices on December 13, 2013, 12:54:44 PM
Wort-hog. Yes, supposedly excessive trub can cause problems with cell budding, as can excessive hop resins. But other studies show some trub acts as nutrients. I think I also have read that there's enough cold break trub to act as nutrients you need and feel good if you want to leave all hot break behind. For me, I don't see that much difference to leave as much behind as possible but not sweat some. I would not go as far as removing cold break by racking the next day (unless maybe if you have a conical). I personally would not dump all the trub into my fermentor but others seem fine doing this. Best bet it to just brew it both ways and see what works best. For me, I use yeast several hens so I want to leave as much behind as possible.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: brewsumore on December 14, 2013, 08:19:06 AM
I do 10-gallon batches that I chill with an immersion chiller that I remove after chilling the wort while stirring, and then wait at least 10 minutes before runoff first through a fine mesh strainer.  The first bucket filled gets considerably less trub in it.  I leave as much trub and pellet hop spooge behind as possible, including typically at least 1/2 gallon of liquid.  Although both buckets are filled the same and sit in the same fridge ferment chamber, sometimes one does not come out as well as the other all other things being equal while practicing quality sanitary practices.  I figure the primary reason for a difference in flavor and occasionally color too, is when I transfer too much trub/spooge into the second bucket fermenter.  I generally need to transfer some trub since I max out my keg kettle to yield 11 gallons/5.5 gallons wort per bucket, each of which yields 5 gallons of finished beer into a corny keg.  For batches with really heavy hop load and break material, to reduce the amount of trub transfer instead of running off via the kettle's ball valve I'll transfer from the top down using a siphon.
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: davidgzach on December 16, 2013, 01:11:36 AM
I've been using fine mesh bucket bags with good success.  Put bag in bucket(don't forget to clamp the bag in place), pour in wort then pull out slowly while alternately picking up the bottom corners to allow the wort to get through the trub and hop material.  It gets very clean and you can see all the trub when you wash it out.

Dave
Title: Re: Leave the Trub behind...or not?
Post by: brewsumore on December 16, 2013, 01:23:12 AM
I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and make a copper pickup tube similar to Denny's, and try stirring again after removing my IC to see what kind of trub cone I can get going.  The main reason I haven't already done so is that I've been afraid it will substantially increase my runoff time, and I'm also concerned about the pickup tube clogging.  It's time to experiment.  Any recommendations on how wide of an opening to leave on the copper pickup tube on the partially flattened end?  Thanks.