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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: goschman on December 13, 2013, 08:11:02 PM

Title: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 13, 2013, 08:11:02 PM
Looking for impressions of this yeast when used in styles other than Kolsch.

On Wyeast's site, the temp range is shown from 56-70F. Has anyone ever used it at higher ends of the range? I assume it would provide a more fruity flavor at higher temps. I am looking for a new yeast that I can use in a variety of beers year round. I think I would really like this yeast but it is hard for me to ferment much below 70 in the summer.

Any input?
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: Pinski on December 13, 2013, 08:22:03 PM
I can't say I've used this yeast to make anything other than a Kolsch, but I can say that it makes one of my favorite beers.  There is a particular ester produced that I don't perceive from other strains.  It is spoken of as a hybrid yeast able to work both ale and lager temperature ranges.  I would expect that you get a lot more fruityness from a fermentation much warmer than 70.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: Stevie on December 13, 2013, 08:51:24 PM
I have used this yeast twice for Kolsch, and currently have a white IPA winding down that I held at 58 for a week and let rise to 66. I keep trying to get around to sampling it, but too many other chores right now. Very poor flocculation.

I am going to be giving it a go in a common in the mid 60's, another Kolsch, and a berliner soon.

I haven't used it over mid 60's, so I can't tell you how it works near 70.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: gmac on December 13, 2013, 10:07:37 PM
I've used it in cream ales (meaning that there was some corn in the mash) and it was good.  I've also used it in cider and it was very good.  Somewhere in the high 60's for fermentation temp.  Still think it would probably be best in a Kolsch but I'd use it in any lighter ale without much concern.  Could be a bit fruity when hot, I got some definite apple and pear character from it when I've used it.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: denny on December 13, 2013, 10:13:27 PM
Given its distinct flavor profile, I've never considered it for anything other than kolsch.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 13, 2013, 10:20:30 PM
I thought I remember someone saying they used it in an APA and it was great...

I don't really brew any traditional beer styles so it sounds boring to use a Kolsch yeast for a Kolsch...haha. Actually Kolsch is one of my favorite beer styles so maybe I should just brew one and use American hops to satisfy my need to do something different. "American Kolsch", it can go into the pile along with Session IPA, American Bitter, etc...

Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 13, 2013, 10:23:17 PM
Given its distinct flavor profile, I've never considered it for anything other than kolsch.

+1
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: Pinski on December 13, 2013, 10:51:40 PM
I thought I remember someone saying they used it in an APA and it was great...

I don't really brew any traditional beer styles so it sounds boring to use a Kolsch yeast for a Kolsch...haha. Actually Kolsch is one of my favorite beer styles so maybe I should just brew one and use American hops to satisfy my need to do something different. "American Kolsch", it can go into the pile along with Session IPA, American Bitter, etc...

You have to make a Golsch. I really don't see any other option. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 13, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
I thought I remember someone saying they used it in an APA and it was great...

I don't really brew any traditional beer styles so it sounds boring to use a Kolsch yeast for a Kolsch...haha. Actually Kolsch is one of my favorite beer styles so maybe I should just brew one and use American hops to satisfy my need to do something different. "American Kolsch", it can go into the pile along with Session IPA, American Bitter, etc...

You have to make a Golsch. I really don't see any other option.

Haha! Yes it is settled...

Okay well from responses so far it seems that Kolsch yeast should mostly be used for Kolsch beers. I thought maybe there were some other styles that might be good similarly toe using an english yeast for an american pale ale.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: erockrph on December 14, 2013, 01:46:37 AM
You could use it in any style you want, but it will taste like an APA?Blonde/Cream Ale/etc. brewed with Kolsch yeast. If that's what you're looking for, then go for it. That's the beauty of homebrewing.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: davidgzach on December 14, 2013, 02:16:56 PM
You could use it in any style you want, but it will taste like an APA?Blonde/Cream Ale/etc. brewed with Kolsch yeast. If that's what you're looking for, then go for it. That's the beauty of homebrewing.

+1
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: dmtaylor on December 14, 2013, 02:46:00 PM
I thought I remember someone saying they used it in an APA and it was great...

Basic Brewing Radio did a grand yeast experiment a while back with APA and liked the Kolsch yeast best out of like 8 different yeasts.  I have brewed Blonde ales with it that turned out excellent.  Great yeast.  Go for it.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 23, 2013, 07:27:30 PM
My LHBS does not have 2565 but I can get 1007 - German Ale. Any input about how this stacks up against 2565? Looks like it should reasonably similar and should work well for a Kolsch.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on December 23, 2013, 09:39:54 PM
My LHBS does not have 2565 but I can get 1007 - German Ale. Any input about how this stacks up against 2565? Looks like it should reasonably similar and should work well for a Kolsch.

You can use it but it is not the same. Kolsch yeast has a specific flavor profile that wy1007 doesn't have.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 23, 2013, 09:57:26 PM
My LHBS does not have 2565 but I can get 1007 - German Ale. Any input about how this stacks up against 2565? Looks like it should reasonably similar and should work well for a Kolsch.

You can use it but it is not the same. Kolsch yeast has a specific flavor profile that wy1007 doesn't have.

Right. I assumed that is the case but 1007 is still appropriate for the Kolsch style correct? They do have WLP029 so I suppose I should use that. I prefer Wyeast to White Labs when possible...
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: duxx on December 23, 2013, 10:19:51 PM
Right. I assumed that is the case but 1007 is still appropriate for the Kolsch style correct?

I use WY 1007 for my kolsch all the time.  I also use it for my Dusseldorf Alt and even for American Wheat.  I think it makes a great kolsch.  As others have said Wyeast kolsch 1 & 2 both have very distinctive flavors.  WY 1007 is much more neutral, which I like better.  BTW, I have done very well in competitions with the 1007 Kolsch, and I haven't been marked down by judges for using it.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on December 23, 2013, 10:55:30 PM
My LHBS does not have 2565 but I can get 1007 - German Ale. Any input about how this stacks up against 2565? Looks like it should reasonably similar and should work well for a Kolsch.

You can use it but it is not the same. Kolsch yeast has a specific flavor profile that wy1007 doesn't have.

Right. I assumed that is the case but 1007 is still appropriate for the Kolsch style correct? They do have WLP029 so I suppose I should use that. I prefer Wyeast to White Labs when possible...

My opinion is, if you want to brew kolsch use kolsch yeast. If you tell a brewer in Dusseldorf that you are using his yeast to brew a kolsch there's a good possibility he will throw you out of his brewery. ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 23, 2013, 11:06:13 PM
Right. I assumed that is the case but 1007 is still appropriate for the Kolsch style correct?

I use WY 1007 for my kolsch all the time.  I also use it for my Dusseldorf Alt and even for American Wheat.  I think it makes a great kolsch.  As others have said Wyeast kolsch 1 & 2 both have very distinctive flavors.  WY 1007 is much more neutral, which I like better.  BTW, I have done very well in competitions with the 1007 Kolsch, and I haven't been marked down by judges for using it.

Thanks for the input. Kolsch is one of my favorite commercial styles but I have never brewed one. Wyeast's site recommends 1007 for Kolsch so I assumed it wouldn't be an issue. What temp do you normally ferment at?
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on December 24, 2013, 02:25:07 PM
WY1007 needs be fermented near lager temps for best results. 56-58 degrees (even as cool as 54). It tends to throw some odd flavors otherwise.

WLP029 is a very nice kolsch yeast that will give you a more true kolsch flavor. It is a little easier to work with than the Wyeast kolsch yeast (2656) as it drops clearer with out as much effort though perhaps the 2656 has  more "wine-like" character which I associate with a good kolsch yeast. Both WY and WL kolsch strains ferment well in high 50's/low 60's.

Wy1007 is very close to lager flavor and will not contribute this "kolschy" flavor to the beer. That said, it is very easy to get to drop clear. I use Wy1007 about 1-2 times a week and it is a very nice strain. Out of any ale strain WY1007 is the closest to a "lagerish" flavor. It is extremely clean.

With any of the three strains you will most likely need to filter or fine to get the beer to drop brilliantly clear. The photo in my avatar is of a kolsch brewed with WLP029 and fined with gelatin. For Wy1007 biofine clear A3 is extremely effective. Cold and time will work but I have always found that fining is a must if you want to turn around in a decent time.

Cologne and Dusseldorf have a pretty good rivalry over Alt and Kolsch about which one is better. I agree you can make a decent kolsch with an Alt yeast but the little German boy in me still wants to scream "NO!" ;)
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 24, 2013, 04:23:56 PM
Thank you...this is very helpful.

I am leaning toward using WLP029 for this batch and doing a future batch with 2565 for comparison. White Labs shows 65-69 for optimum fermentation temp which I thought was a bit high. It also notes not to drop below 62. From your experience it sounds like if I stick around 60F I should be okay?

EDIT: For WLP029, people can experience problems under 16C, so we recommend that temperature, but many do ferment cooler. You just have to be more careful and keep an eye on the fermentation. With 029, you don’t need to ferment that cool anyway to get the clean flavors, you can cool it during fermentation if you like, but I wouldn’t the first time and see what you think.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on December 24, 2013, 05:11:24 PM
Yeah, I forgot to mention something very important about wlp029 - it can stall if the temp is under 62 near the end. But as long as you pitch enough healthy yeast you will find this strain does very well at 58-60 for the first couple of days. Then be sure to raise up to 64, then even as high as 68 near very end to finish. Be sure to pitch plenty of healthy yeast.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: morticaixavier on December 24, 2013, 07:04:53 PM
Yeah, I forgot to mention something very important about wlp029 - it can stall if the temp is under 62 near the end. But as long as you pitch enough healthy yeast you will find this strain does very well at 58-60 for the first couple of days. Then be sure to raise up to 64, then even as high as 68 near very end to finish. Be sure to pitch plenty of healthy yeast.

Major gives good advice on kolsch. I follow it pretty closely and turn out a darn fine kolsch.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on December 27, 2013, 09:27:17 PM
Got around to brewing this today and everything went very well for the most part. Undershot my gravity a bit due to a larger post boil volume.

Thanks for all of the input. I ended up using the WLP029 and pitched at 64F. The fermenter is sitting in the 50F garage so I will bring it in after it drops closer to 60 and slowly raise it above 64F in the coming days.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on January 10, 2014, 07:05:44 PM
WLP029 attenuated 84.8% to finish at 1.007 which is a lot more than I was expecting. Got a 5.4% ABV Kolsch on my hands. I mashed at 149 for 75 minutes. Next attempt, I will probably bring up the mash temp to 152 and possibly reduce the grain by half a pound.

Other than having too much alcohol, the beer tastes great and the balance actually may be appropriate (which doesn't happen often in my frankenstein beers)
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: bhanson on January 11, 2014, 02:08:47 AM
I've used the WLP029 strain a couple of times for a Kolsch and it's great.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: Pi on January 13, 2014, 03:26:43 PM
White Labs WLP029, my favorite for Kolsch. Using it in an Alt right now. If you can cool your wort to around 62*(Ice bath?) when you pitch, then let it warm up to 68*. fermentation is done in like 3 or 4 days. a very clean strain IMO.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: goschman on January 13, 2014, 04:14:28 PM
White Labs WLP029, my favorite for Kolsch. Using it in an Alt right now. If you can cool your wort to around 62*(Ice bath?) when you pitch, then let it warm up to 68*. fermentation is done in like 3 or 4 days. a very clean strain IMO.

That is pretty much exactly what I did though it was more of a coincidence than on purpose.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 15, 2014, 01:16:14 AM
029 is great.  I made a bunch of beers with it.  All Kolschs, but you can make a regular Kolsch, a honey Kolsch, a lemon Kolsch, a honey lemon Kolsch, etc....

One of my earliest favorites in homebrewing.  I love it when my friend brings over the barber poles (Fruh) that he picks up when he travels to Germany.  Really great style and definitely a gateway homebrew for the BMC crowd.
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 15, 2014, 01:51:28 AM

  Really great style and definitely a gateway homebrew for the BMC crowd.


+1.  I love to see the look on a swill drinker's face go from skepticism to shock to a smile when they try their first Kolsch or APA. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 2565 Kolsch
Post by: bhanson on January 23, 2014, 01:12:03 AM
I've used WLP029 with very good results.  There's a distinct flavor profile that I associate with a Kolsch, and this is it. If specifically making a Kolsch, I'd favor it over WY1007 for sure, although that would also make a nice beer from the same grain bill.