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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: case thrower on December 14, 2013, 05:31:15 PM

Title: oxyclean
Post by: case thrower on December 14, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
I've seen some references to Oxyclean here.  I know it works for laundry and the like, but can someone tell me what I can use it for in my brewing and what procedures I would have to use?  Rinse, no rinse, extra rinse?  Ok for the brew kettle but never for bottles?  Safe for carboys, glass or plastic but never for stainless steel?  All of the above or none of the above?  Thanks for any help you can give me.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: duboman on December 14, 2013, 05:35:01 PM
I pretty much use it to clean everything from plastics to my brew kettle and it works great. It does need to be thoroughly rinsed like any cleaner should.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: denny on December 14, 2013, 05:37:58 PM
I've used Oxiclean Versatile for pretty much all of my brewery cleaning for close to 15 years.  The only thing I wouldn't use it for is AL.  Works great for glass, plastic, vinyl tubing, etc.  I use 1-2 Tbsp. per 6 gal. fermenter in hot water (don't use hot water for carboys).  Rinse thoroughly after using.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: case thrower on December 14, 2013, 05:43:42 PM
Ok, two quick questions.  What is AL and why no hot water for carboys?  I'm using plastic carboys so would that make a difference?  That's three questions, but who's counting?
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: denny on December 14, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
Ok, two quick questions.  What is AL and why no hot water for carboys?  I'm using plastic carboys so would that make a difference?  That's three questions, but who's counting?

AL= aluminum.  Some people use Al kettles

Hot water should never be used on glass carboys.  There's too much risk of shattering.  Yeah, I know some people do it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.  No problem with plastic.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: case thrower on December 14, 2013, 05:53:25 PM
Thank you both.  I would never have considered using Oxyclean for anything but clothes.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Slowbrew on December 14, 2013, 08:34:33 PM
If I remember correctly (big if sometimes) Straight A and Oxyclean are basically the same thing.  Minor chemical differences and big cost difference.  Both work great so you may as well use the cheaper option.

Paul
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Jeff M on December 14, 2013, 09:01:28 PM
Isnt PBW just really Souped up Oxyclean?  Essentially an alkaline cleaner?
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 14, 2013, 09:05:20 PM
An Oxyclean soak is good for removing labels.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: davidgzach on December 14, 2013, 10:23:55 PM
I like to clean my mash tun with Oxiclean before each use.  I prefer Bleach for my fermentation buckets so they are sanitized at the same time.  That requires a thorough rinse with HOT water though.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: euge on December 14, 2013, 10:48:20 PM
I've actually found oxyclean to be a detriment with high efficiency clothes washers. :(

I clean my plastic fermenters with Oxy versatile. Use a caustic lye (sodium hydroxide) soak in the buckets about every 5 batches. That's about it for the brewery. My AL kettle gets scrubbed with copper scrubbies and no detergent whatsoever. Glass is bad news altogether.



Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: realbeerguy on December 14, 2013, 10:57:23 PM
BLEACH  Bleach leaves a residue and need to be rinsed.  IMO, the rinsing defeats the purpose.    Spend the $ for Iodiphor or Star San, no-rinse sanitizers.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: greatplainsbrewer on December 14, 2013, 11:43:41 PM
Isnt PBW just really Souped up Oxyclean?  Essentially an alkaline cleaner?

I think it has to do with the water here but PBW works significantly better than Oxyclean.  Oxyclean leaves a gritty residue  on everything- I had to use something acidic to clean it out of my carboys, tubing, buckets, etc.  I dont get that with PBW
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: dbarber on December 15, 2013, 04:12:02 PM
I've found that oxyclean doesn't always remove all of the krausen ring even after an extended soak, but the PBW will. 
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: hubie on December 15, 2013, 04:38:49 PM
IMO, the rinsing defeats the purpose.

Although I use StarSan, I don't agree about the rinsing.  I've always considered this an overblown worry unless you are using your own well water.  I like the no-rinse stuff because I don't need to do the extra step of rinsing, and that it takes more effort to use bleach effectively.  Charley Talley (Five Star Chemicals, who used to be in the bleach manufacturing business before Five Star) has some really good info on how to use bleach correctly in one of the interviews he did with Basic Brewing Radio or Brew Strong (I don't remember which).  Two of the big things I recall are that you want to acidify your water with the bleach, and that large brand bleach loses its microbe killing potency over time because they add sodium hydroxide and the cheap brands don't.  Also, if you do the acidified bleach treatment in the right amounts, you don't need to rinse it anyway.  Obviously if you want to go this route, make sure you read up on how to do it so that you don't end up mixing your acid and bleach first before adding it to the water.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: theoman on December 16, 2013, 12:47:40 PM
I've also been using Oxyclean or generic equivalents for cleaning my equipment for years. That with a Star San soak and I've never had an infection. I'd avoid using it on copper chillers, though.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: davidgzach on December 16, 2013, 03:20:33 PM
IMO, the rinsing defeats the purpose.

Although I use StarSan, I don't agree about the rinsing.  I've always considered this an overblown worry unless you are using your own well water.  I like the no-rinse stuff because I don't need to do the extra step of rinsing, and that it takes more effort to use bleach effectively.  Charley Talley (Five Star Chemicals, who used to be in the bleach manufacturing business before Five Star) has some really good info on how to use bleach correctly in one of the interviews he did with Basic Brewing Radio or Brew Strong (I don't remember which).  Two of the big things I recall are that you want to acidify your water with the bleach, and that large brand bleach loses its microbe killing potency over time because they add sodium hydroxide and the cheap brands don't.  Also, if you do the acidified bleach treatment in the right amounts, you don't need to rinse it anyway.  Obviously if you want to go this route, make sure you read up on how to do it so that you don't end up mixing your acid and bleach first before adding it to the water.

That's interesting.  I don't know why rinsing would defeat the purpose, especially with treated water not well water as you said.  Never had an infection or an off-flavor in over 200 brews now. 

For me, I can get a 3 pack of bleach at BJ's for like $5 or something and it cleans and sanitizes my buckets in one shot.  I have a gallon jug of StarSan around at all times for the spray bottle, Better Bottle and kegs.  OxiClean for mash tun and initial keg cleaning.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: bunderbunder on December 16, 2013, 03:48:53 PM
Isnt PBW just really Souped up Oxyclean?  Essentially an alkaline cleaner?

Yup.  Both are based on sodium percarbonate, but PBW also has some detergents and sodium silicate and whatnot in there.  Wild guess, OxyClean doesn't include those extras because it's designed to be used in combination with laundry detergent which probably already has them.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: denny on December 16, 2013, 04:38:03 PM
BLEACH  Bleach leaves a residue and need to be rinsed.  IMO, the rinsing defeats the purpose.    Spend the $ for Iodiphor or Star San, no-rinse sanitizers.

We're talking cleaning, not sanitizing.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 16, 2013, 04:49:17 PM
We're talking cleaning, not sanitizing.

Now we're splitting hairs...  ::)   Mayhap you mean cleaning, not disinfecting?


FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 16, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
Ok, two quick questions.  What is AL and why no hot water for carboys?  I'm using plastic carboys so would that make a difference?  That's three questions, but who's counting?

AL= aluminum.  Some people use Al kettles

Hot water should never be used on glass carboys.  There's too much risk of shattering.  Yeah, I know some people do it, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.  No problem with plastic.

I wouldn't use really hot water with plastic carboys.  There's some what has had them shrivel.

I've not had that happen, but I try to keep the water at a reasonable temperature.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: denny on December 16, 2013, 05:36:18 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: davidgzach on December 16, 2013, 06:29:21 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.

I would think you would need some pretty poor water quality for it to make a difference, no? 
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 16, 2013, 06:30:05 PM
We're talking cleaning, not sanitizing.

Now we're splitting hairs...  ::)   Mayhap you mean cleaning, not disinfecting?

Jeeze, I share some of my best stuff with yous guys - and you ignore it.  ::)

Sanitize:
(săn'ĭ-tīz') pronunciation
tr.v., -tized, -tiz·ing, -tiz·es. 1. To make sanitary, as by cleaning or disinfecting.


Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 16, 2013, 06:44:15 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.

+1.  I brewed for years (back in the day) rinsing with hot city tap water and never had a problem.  I use Starsan now, but I think the risks of rinsing were a bit overstated.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: bunderbunder on December 16, 2013, 07:03:08 PM
Considering the number of partial boil extract brews I've done where at least half of what goes into the fermenter is water straight from the tap. . .
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: euge on December 16, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.

I would think you would need some pretty poor water quality for it to make a difference, no?

Really poor water indeed. If it made a difference to your beer the water would be non-potable anyway.

However, I'd question anything heavily chlorinated or smelling of chlorine. That could mess the beer up bad. And at certain times of the year I smell chlorine in our water. Added by the city of course.

Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: beersk on December 16, 2013, 07:57:40 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.
You run the tap water filled in the tubes into the keg? I'll usually run it out till the tube is filled with beer, then cap with my thumb, then run that into the keg.

As far as cleaning goes, using anything other than water on your kettles and mashtuns is overkill. I just rinse those buggers out make sure they look clean. Fermenters, however, they get the sh*t cleaned out of them. I make my own PBW with 70% Oxyclean and 30% TSP90.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: morticaixavier on December 16, 2013, 08:05:43 PM
FWIW I rinsed with untreated well water for years with nary a single bad batch to show for it.

Although I generally don't any more, I've done the same with no negative consequences.  The this day, when I rack I sanitize the racking cane and tubing, then fill them with tap water from my well to get the siphon going.  Nothing I'd recommend to anyone, but also never a problems doing that hundreds of times.
You run the tap water filled in the tubes into the keg? I'll usually run it out till the tube is filled with beer, then cap with my thumb, then run that into the keg.

As far as cleaning goes, using anything other than water on your kettles and mashtuns is overkill. I just rinse those buggers out make sure they look clean. Fermenters, however, they get the sh*t cleaned out of them. I make my own PBW with 70% Oxyclean and 30% TSP90.

I'm thinking the tap water is probably cleaner than your thumb though, even if you 'sanitize' your thumb with vodka.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 16, 2013, 08:14:48 PM
I'm thinking the tap water is probably cleaner than your thumb though, even if you 'sanitize' your thumb with vodka.

With the places my thumb has been you can take that to the bank.

I have one of those little plastic clamp things on my lines to shut off the flow.  Keeps the concern of thumb sanitation out of the equation.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Stevie on December 16, 2013, 09:01:36 PM
I make my own PBW with 70% Oxyclean and 30% TSP90.

Measured by weight or volume?
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: beersk on December 16, 2013, 09:43:05 PM
I sanitize my hands in the starsan usually. I don't dunk them, but I spray the outside of the tubing while the tube is filled with the sanitizer. So, I'm thinking my thumb is sanitized enough.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: dcbc on December 17, 2013, 10:29:21 PM
Isnt PBW just really Souped up Oxyclean?  Essentially an alkaline cleaner?

Sorry, totally missed beersk's post a few above this one when I posted the recipe below.  Same thing.  I usually measure it by volume.  It's not an exact science.  You can play with the ratio a bit to find something that works well for you.

My original post:

If you want to make some homemade PBW, use 3 parts Oxyclean (no dyes) or a generic subsitute like Sun Oxygen Cleaner (Sodium percarbonate) with 1 part Red Devil TSP-90 (Sodium Metasilicate) available at most hardware stores.  Mix well and you can have almost 9 lbs of homemade PBW for less than $10. 

This recipe is derived from the description of the make up of PBW given by Charlie Talley (owner of 5 Star) on the Brewing Network.  I have used it for several years with great success.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: davidgzach on December 18, 2013, 07:30:00 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but have not seen any mention of Super Pro-Zyme.  Anyone use that?
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: beersk on December 18, 2013, 07:35:10 PM
I make my own PBW with 70% Oxyclean and 30% TSP90.

Measured by weight or volume?
Measured by weight. Not sure how it works out, but like 2.8lbs of oxiclean and 1.2lbs of TSP90, or something like that to make up 4lbs. It's somewhere around there.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Stevie on December 18, 2013, 07:51:46 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but have not seen any mention of Super Pro-Zyme.  Anyone use that?

I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 18, 2013, 07:56:02 PM
I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.

AND it cleans lab equipment too!!

(http://www.etched.us/wp-content/uploads/Enzyte-Box-3D-618x463.jpg)
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: davidgzach on December 18, 2013, 08:00:34 PM
I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.

AND it cleans lab equipment too!!

(http://www.etched.us/wp-content/uploads/Enzyte-Box-3D-618x463.jpg)

Now that's funny!  No need to read in to that one....
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Stevie on December 18, 2013, 08:05:08 PM
D'oh

http://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=9231266
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: theDarkSide on December 18, 2013, 08:08:43 PM
I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.

AND it cleans lab equipment too!!

(http://www.etched.us/wp-content/uploads/Enzyte-Box-3D-618x463.jpg)

A no-rinse cleaner ( as in you wouldn't want to rinse it and have it transfer to your beer  ;D )
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 18, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.

AND it cleans lab equipment too!!

(http://www.etched.us/wp-content/uploads/Enzyte-Box-3D-618x463.jpg)

A no-rinse cleaner ( as in you wouldn't want to rinse it and have it transfer to your beer  ;D )

If you did, would you be a hardened criminal?   8)
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 18, 2013, 08:16:18 PM
D'oh

http://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=9231266

"Enzyte™ is a multi-enzyme detergent concentrate formulated to be especially effective in the removal of proteins, blood, fatty tissues and other organic materials found on medical instruments and hard, non-porous surfaces."

This just keeps getting better and better...  ;D
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 18, 2013, 08:30:36 PM
D'oh

http://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=9231266

"Enzyte™ is a multi-enzyme detergent concentrate formulated to be especially effective in the removal of proteins, blood, fatty tissues and other organic materials found on medical instruments and hard, non-porous surfaces."

This just keeps getting better and better...  ;D

So it works both ways.  Helps get it on.  Helps get it off.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Slowbrew on December 18, 2013, 08:48:22 PM
I cleaned lab equipment in high school with Enzyte. If it works the same way, it's amazing.

AND it cleans lab equipment too!!

(http://www.etched.us/wp-content/uploads/Enzyte-Box-3D-618x463.jpg)

A no-rinse cleaner ( as in you wouldn't want to rinse it and have it transfer to your beer  ;D )

If you did, would you be a hardened criminal?   8)

The first phrase that ran through mind when I read the first post this was "This is Bob.  Bob used to have a problem..." 

Too funny!

Paul
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Stevie on December 18, 2013, 09:21:45 PM
These days it's Jimmy Johnson. Really lowered my respect for that guy.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: tschmidlin on December 18, 2013, 11:58:36 PM
IMO, the rinsing defeats the purpose.

Although I use StarSan, I don't agree about the rinsing.  I've always considered this an overblown worry unless you are using your own well water.  I like the no-rinse stuff because I don't need to do the extra step of rinsing, and that it takes more effort to use bleach effectively.  Charley Talley (Five Star Chemicals, who used to be in the bleach manufacturing business before Five Star) has some really good info on how to use bleach correctly in one of the interviews he did with Basic Brewing Radio or Brew Strong (I don't remember which).  Two of the big things I recall are that you want to acidify your water with the bleach, and that large brand bleach loses its microbe killing potency over time because they add sodium hydroxide and the cheap brands don't.  Also, if you do the acidified bleach treatment in the right amounts, you don't need to rinse it anyway.  Obviously if you want to go this route, make sure you read up on how to do it so that you don't end up mixing your acid and bleach first before adding it to the water.
If I remember right, you acidify the bleach water with vinegar.  Also, the large brand bleaches are more effective for general use because the manufacturers raise the pH, and they will stay effective for much longer than the cheap brands for that reason.  However, for our use you want to buy the cheap stuff because you want to lower the pH to increase the effectiveness, and it is better to do that if they have not buffered the pH.

Or, you know, use starsan.  That's what I do.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: punatic on December 19, 2013, 02:40:11 AM
Wha...? No Enzyte for a lab guy like you?   ;)
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: gmwren on December 20, 2013, 03:01:07 PM
I purchased some TSP, but I had to go online for the MSDS to see the ingredients. No mention of Sodium Metasilicate. It does contain TSP dodecahydrate and sodium sesquicarbonate (sodium carbonate.)will this work with the oxyclean or do I need to find the stuff with the Sodium Metasilicate?
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: dcbc on December 23, 2013, 06:14:17 PM
Red Devil TSP 90 is not Trisodium Phosphate. 

This is the stuff I use, which is sodium metasilicate.

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Devil-0261-Heavy-Cleaner/dp/B000LNTXIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387822366&sr=8-1&keywords=red+devil+tsp+90
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: Jimmy K on January 06, 2014, 02:47:20 PM
I purchased some TSP, but I had to go online for the MSDS to see the ingredients. No mention of Sodium Metasilicate. It does contain TSP dodecahydrate and sodium sesquicarbonate (sodium carbonate.)will this work with the oxyclean or do I need to find the stuff with the Sodium Metasilicate?
Maybe a little confusing if you don't know the history, but TSP stands for trisodium phosphate. Phosphates are one of our biggest water pollution problems and so most detergents have reformulated without it. Phosphate-free replacements like red devil use TSP in their name so consumers recognize it as a replacement, but don't actually contain TSP. Basically, TSP became generic for "detergent". I imagine it would work mixed with oxyclean, but I don't know that for sure.
Title: Re: oxyclean
Post by: beersk on January 06, 2014, 04:38:38 PM
Red Devil TSP/90 is what I use to mix with oxiclean. It works rather well.