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General Category => Events => Topic started by: morticaixavier on January 12, 2014, 05:53:25 PM

Title: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: morticaixavier on January 12, 2014, 05:53:25 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but I'm lazy soooo....

I have a lot of anchor bottles in my collection. Not so much because I drink a ton of Anchor but because I like the way they look.

However I wonder if that would disqualify an entry for a contest, particularly the NHC.

Anybody?
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: Stevie on January 12, 2014, 05:59:34 PM
I've seen competition rules call for long necks specifically. I use sierra/firestone/boulevard/lagunitas short neck bottles for the same reason you like the anchor bottles.

I know of a few people that only use brand new bottles for comps. Superstitions.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: james on January 12, 2014, 06:17:11 PM
As long as it will fit in a normal case and not stick up taller than the rest then it is fine.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: dkfick on January 12, 2014, 07:37:52 PM
yeah most competitions just don't want the bottles to be identifiable or interfere with their stacking of cases etc..
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: morticaixavier on January 12, 2014, 07:54:22 PM
yeah most competitions just don't want the bottles to be identifiable or interfere with their stacking of cases etc..


the identified part is more what I worry about. are they common enough in competition to be more or less anonymous?
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: dkfick on January 12, 2014, 08:03:42 PM
I would think so.  I see alot of sam adams beer bottles, founders/sierra nevada ones, etc... I think it's 'close enough' to 'plain'.

Though... If you post in a forum that you'll be using X slightly unique bottles... ;-)
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: morticaixavier on January 12, 2014, 09:16:26 PM
I would think so.  I see alot of sam adams beer bottles, founders/sierra nevada ones, etc... I think it's 'close enough' to 'plain'.

Though... If you post in a forum that you'll be using X slightly unique bottles... ;-)

Damn!! :D
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: AmandaK on January 12, 2014, 09:27:34 PM
yeah most competitions just don't want the bottles to be identifiable or interfere with their stacking of cases etc..


the identified part is more what I worry about. are they common enough in competition to be more or less anonymous?

Last year, the rules stated the maximum dimensions of the entry bottles. This was because of space requirements of 1500 bottles at the regional level and 2250 at the National level, those little stubby bottles make a difference. Try putting them in a standard (long neck) case box. It doesn't work.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: duboman on January 12, 2014, 09:47:49 PM
I can tell you that I've entered them several times in various comps and never had any issues that I've been made aware of, no dings and no comments regarding bottle selection.

I'm not saying they can/can't be used but if they can't I've never been informed of it.

All that being said I typically use long necks as long as they're available when I prep for a comp
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: pepperford on January 23, 2014, 02:30:24 AM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: fistfullofhops on January 23, 2014, 02:49:51 AM
Just read this today in the guidelines section on AHA homepage:

1. What kind of bottle is required?

Beer, mead and cider entries must be in bottles that hold a minimum of 10 ounces in volume, and that will fit in a standard case box slot. The measurements of a standard case box slot are 2.75 inches long x 2.75 inches wide x 9 inches high (7 cm x 7 cm x 22.9 cm). Bottles may be of any color and must be free of ink, paint, or paper labeling other than competition entry label. Obliterate any lettering or graphics on the cap with a permanent black marker.

Bottles with Grölsch-type swing tops and 22 oz Bomber bottles are not allowed.

Corked bottles and odd-shaped bottles are acceptable as long as they can fit in a standard case box slot (2.75 inches L x 2.75 in W x 9 in H; 7 cm x 7 cm x 22.9 cm). Bottles with raised lettering are acceptable if they fit in a standard case box slot.

Bottles not meeting the above requirements will be disqualified.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: james on January 23, 2014, 03:10:55 AM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: jeffy on January 23, 2014, 12:18:15 PM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit

I sometimes make a note of the bottle or cap type, mostly to give the entrant confirmation that it is indeed his beer that I am judging.  It's got nothing to do with score.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: dkfick on January 23, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit

I sometimes make a note of the bottle or cap type, mostly to give the entrant confirmation that it is indeed his beer that I am judging.  It's got nothing to do with score.
Exactly.  I do the same thing.  Though from comments I see in this and other forums I suspect some people take the note as stating a flaw vs just stating what is.  Then they assume their low score is because of this... At least that's what i've gleaned and hope... Hopefully there are not judges out there taking points off for bottle shape...
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: udubdawg on January 23, 2014, 01:57:14 PM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit

I sometimes make a note of the bottle or cap type, mostly to give the entrant confirmation that it is indeed his beer that I am judging.  It's got nothing to do with score.

I like when a judge gives me this sort of confirmation, be it noticing that it was a stubby/Belgian bottle, the SA logo, or perhaps that the fill level was high.  These things happen often enough in any competition that anonymity is preserved.

We've also got a skilled brewer who puts extremely colorful caps on all his bottles.  That's how he tells stuff apart at a glance in his basement.  It was fine the first time, but now I know it is his beer when I see it.  Fitting in case boxes aside, that's what we need to avoid.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: Jimmy K on January 27, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit
I hear that sometimes, but fact is there are no points associated with the bottle inspection, only comments. I think people read negative comments and infer something or get dramatic.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: dkfick on January 27, 2014, 08:18:13 PM
That's my thoughts as well Jimmy.  I've never been with another judge that tried to take points off for a bottle or the fill in a bottle.  But I always note down that stuff.
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: darwin18 on January 27, 2014, 08:38:46 PM
You shouldn't lose points based on bottle appearance or fill level.  That being said, you're paying $14 an entry for the NHC - if you're worried about DQ'ing then maybe should use the standard 12 oz bottle?  I've ever seen one entry in a competition be nearly DQ'ed for a bottle, and that was an entry at the NC State fair where the brewer submitted a Heineken bottle with the Heineken label still in place.  It was a stout, and you could clearly tell that it wasn't Heineken, but the judges were very close to DQ'ing it. 
Title: Re: Non-standard 12 oz bottles and NHC
Post by: Jimmy K on January 29, 2014, 04:00:14 PM
That's my thoughts as well Jimmy.  I've never been with another judge that tried to take points off for a bottle or the fill in a bottle.  But I always note down that stuff.
In fact - Question 49 in the T/F written exam questions listed in the guidelines
  The results of the bottle inspection does not affect the scoring.  - True