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General Category => Events => Homebrew Competitions => Topic started by: whiskey on March 30, 2010, 08:04:15 PM

Title: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: whiskey on March 30, 2010, 08:04:15 PM
Greetings!

Quick question on the National Homebrewing Compitition.

Per the AHA rukes and regs for the NHC....

Quote
BEER entries must be in bottles that are brown or green glass only, 10 to 14 ounces in volume.
MEAD and CIDER entries must be in bottles that are brown, green, or clear glass, 10 to 14
ounces in volume. All bottles must be free of ink, paint, or paper labeling other than competition
entry labels. Obliterate any lettering or graphics on the cap with a permanent black marker.
Bottles with Grölsch-type swing tops are not allowed.
Corked bottles are acceptable with the following conditions: the bottle must be 10 to 14 ounces;
flush corks must have a crown cap crimped over the cork; bottles corked with a stopper and wire
cage are also acceptable.
Odd-shaped bottles are acceptable if they meet the above requirements. Bottles not meeting the
above requirements will be disqualified.

What about raised glass lettering, i.e. Sam Adams, New Belgium etc bottles? Would these fall into the "odd shaped bottles"?

Are these ok?

I have competed in competitions in the past that specifically stated "no raised glass lettering" and usually make sure I have a case or so of "virgin" bottles for comps, I seem to be a few bottles short for the NHC.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: Matt B on March 30, 2010, 09:33:09 PM
I would avoid raised glass lettering or any other marking. Judges, though they can't judge in categories where they've entered their own beers, their friends may have. If there's a bottle in their flight where they know that Jimbob uses those bottles, that could could skew things, so as a general rule they're frowned upon. The basic nondescript brown bottle is best. I always keep the bottles from commercial beers that I buy (assuming no particular markings) and just oxyclean the labels off.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: babalu87 on April 29, 2010, 11:26:30 AM
I would avoid raised glass lettering or any other marking. Judges, though they can't judge in categories where they've entered their own beers, their friends may have. If there's a bottle in their flight where they know that Jimbob uses those bottles, that could could skew things, so as a general rule they're frowned upon. The basic nondescript brown bottle is best. I always keep the bottles from commercial beers that I buy (assuming no particular markings) and just oxyclean the labels off.


Frowned upon maybe but its never an issue with points.

Jimbob, Jethro et al , fact of the matter is many bottles have raised lettering and they are fairly cosmopolitan throughout competitions at the local, regional and national levels.

Considering Sam Adams is a HUGE SPONSOR some judges etc. need to jump off the high horse and judge the beer based on whats in the bottle rather than some raised lettering.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: denny on April 29, 2010, 03:54:51 PM
I don't think I've ever judged in a comp where raised lettering wasn't accepted.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: bluesman on April 29, 2010, 04:13:46 PM
I don't think I've ever judged in a comp where raised lettering wasn't accepted.

That's what I thought to be the case but I suppose anything can happen.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: bonjour on April 29, 2010, 05:04:06 PM
Just to be clear, the bottles with the "Fullers" raised lettering are mine.





;) (not)
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: dbeechum on April 29, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
At every comp I've been to I've inevitably seen something where one judge starts to object and make noises about dq'ing an entry for a Sam Adams or NB bottle of some variety only to get shouted down by their fellow panelists.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: bonjour on April 29, 2010, 05:49:01 PM
At every comp I've been to I've inevitably seen something where one judge starts to object and make noises about dq'ing an entry for a Sam Adams or NB bottle of some variety only to get shouted down by their fellow panelists.
+1
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: denny on April 29, 2010, 06:53:27 PM
At every comp I've been to I've inevitably seen something where one judge starts to object and make noises about dq'ing an entry for a Sam Adams or NB bottle of some variety only to get shouted down by their fellow panelists.
+1


+2.  It's more important to judge the beer than to worry about a nit picky rule that makes no difference.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: dak0415 on April 29, 2010, 07:09:26 PM
Hey, let's all go green and use recycled Sam Adams bottles!

Dave
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: bluesman on April 30, 2010, 01:51:14 PM
At every comp I've been to I've inevitably seen something where one judge starts to object and make noises about dq'ing an entry for a Sam Adams or NB bottle of some variety only to get shouted down by their fellow panelists.
+1


+2.  It's more important to judge the beer than to worry about a nit picky rule that makes no difference.

+3

Couldn't agree more. It's about the beer not the bottle. However, to be safe it would be in one's best interests to follow the rules. Correct me if I'M wrong but I don't believe there is a rule specifically called out raised lettering.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: Hokerer on May 02, 2010, 01:36:52 AM
Correct me if I'M wrong but I don't believe there is a rule specifically called out raised lettering.

Really depends on the competition.  Here's the specific rule for our local Spirit Of Free Beer competition (an MCAB qualifier)...

What kind of bottles are eligible?
3 bottles are required per entry. 10 to 14 ounce beer bottles. Brown longnecks are preferred, but green or clear will be accepted. Please, no labels, no raised markings, no painted labels, no Grolsch type swing tops, and no growlers. Caps must be free of markings or marked out. Please do not ask us to return bottles or shipping materials.


...and here's the specific rule from the War Of the Worts competition...

Bottles may be brown or green glass, and must be free of any labels, raised glass designs, etched logos, or other identifying marks

...and there're plenty more where those came from.  So it really depends on the specific ecomtetiion
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: Brew.Drink.Repeat. on May 03, 2010, 11:18:31 PM
To me the bigger question is: why would you even risk it? It's not like plain ol' 12 oz. brown bottles are scarce, so there's no need to even consider using a bottle with raised lettering, or extra molding around the neck, or any other unique characteristics. Is it really that difficult to bottle any beer you plan to enter (or even think you might consider entering) in plain brown bottles and save the others (Sam Adams bottles, etc.) for your own personal use?
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: babalu87 on May 04, 2010, 11:27:27 AM
To me the bigger question is: why would you even risk it? It's not like plain ol' 12 oz. brown bottles are scarce, so there's no need to even consider using a bottle with raised lettering, or extra molding around the neck, or any other unique characteristics. Is it really that difficult to bottle any beer you plan to enter (or even think you might consider entering) in plain brown bottles and save the others (Sam Adams bottles, etc.) for your own personal use?

About half the bottles I have/get are Sam Adams bottles

Keep in mind, Sam Adams/Boston Beer Compay = BIGGEST sponsor of the NHC
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: Brew.Drink.Repeat. on May 04, 2010, 03:43:29 PM
Quote
About half the bottles I have/get are Sam Adams bottles
So use the other half for competitions...!

Quote
Keep in mind, Sam Adams/Boston Beer Compay = BIGGEST sponsor of the NHC
Irrelevant in terms of what bottles to enter... but perhaps they'd consider donating enough bottles so everyone could use SA bottles to enter?
 ;)

To be clear, I never dock points for raised lettering or other moldings, or glue smudges on the bottle (I hear more complaints about that than the raised lettering). But in the interests of complete anonymity, and the widespread access to "regular" bottles (from commercial beers or your local homebrew shop) I just don't think it's wise or necessary to use anything else.

One could even argue that crossing off identifying info on the cap, rather than using an unmarked cap, can give away clues as to the entrant's identity... we have one judge locally here who often uses blue sharpie rather than black to cross off any identifying info on his caps... the problem is, he's the only one who uses blue and many of us know who he is!
 :(
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: Janis on May 07, 2010, 09:02:03 PM
Hi all,

For the record, the National Homebrew Competition no longer bans the use of embossed bottles, and that has nothing to do with competition sponsorship.  The reason there was a ban on raised lettering was because breweries using those bottles were regional, so the concept of anonymity of the entry in the competition was compromised.  As those breweries began distributing nationwide, there wasn't any reason to continue to ban the embossed bottles.

Most other competitions, however, have not yet accepted bottles with raised lettering.  You should always read each competitions rules and regulations regarding the types of bottles allowed.

Cheers,
    Janis

Janis Gross
National Homebrew Competition Director
AHA Project Coordinator
janis@brewersassociation.org
 
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: joelambic on May 26, 2010, 10:46:53 PM
As with most things, this is really specific to each competition and ultimately up to the competition organizer to make the call whether to DQ an entry.  The competitions I've organized, worked on, and most I've judged have allowed most/all entries in embossed bottled from the big name breweries (Sam Adams, New Belgium, etc.).  The possible exception would be if it was something so unique to the area as to remove doubt if the brewer - as a judge or steward - walked by the table.  In that case it should be flagged at check in and the brewer contacted to be given the option of sending new bottles w/o markings.
Title: Re: Raised glass lettering on bottle?
Post by: alikocho on June 17, 2010, 07:54:00 AM
To me the bigger question is: why would you even risk it? It's not like plain ol' 12 oz. brown bottles are scarce, so there's no need to even consider using a bottle with raised lettering, or extra molding around the neck, or any other unique characteristics. Is it really that difficult to bottle any beer you plan to enter (or even think you might consider entering) in plain brown bottles and save the others (Sam Adams bottles, etc.) for your own personal use?

Um I live in the UK, and most decent beer comes in 500ml bottles, which are too large. I have to go with what I can find, and that frequently means the Bud bottles from my neighbour's recycling.

And, there is not mention of it in the NHC rules, which means you can't be penalised for it.