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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: ynotbrusum on February 21, 2014, 11:39:56 AM

Title: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 21, 2014, 11:39:56 AM
Has anyone tried this product?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/prime-dose-carbonation-tablets-200-count.html

I am using it on a blended, Oaked Flanders Red for a competition in advance of the NHC deadline....I thought I would try it, since it has some yeast in it and I didn't want to rely on the Brett in a Roselaere blend to finish in time.  I bottled last Sunday (2-16)  for submission by next Friday (2-28) and judging on 3-8.  Trying to find a warm spot in my house, without much success....hoping for the best.

Any insights would be appreciated.  BTW the flat beer was fantastic (for a flat beer - wine like, if you know what I mean).
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 21, 2014, 05:04:51 PM
I have not.  But I have found all of the other options for priming bottles directly (carb tabs, carb drops, whatever) to be lacking.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 21, 2014, 06:01:05 PM
I'm trying to figure out what it is. You say it has yeast and sugar, which would be neat, but the info on that page is vague and stuffed full of marketing keywords and puns.

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Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: erockrph on February 21, 2014, 06:58:00 PM
I'm trying to figure out what it is. You say it has yeast and sugar, which would be neat, but the info on that page is vague and stuffed full of marketing keywords and puns.

+1 - It implies that there might be yeast in there, but it never mentions what the ingredients are. My guess is that it contains something like DAP or yeast nutrient instead of actual yeast. And DAP is something I'd never want to add to finished beer. Smells/tastes like ammonia or pee. I'm pretty leery of adding something to my beer if I don't know exactly what it is. I've never really had an issue with my yeast being able to carb a beer, even on big Belgians that spent 3 months in primary before bottling.

And, FWIW, the Coopers carb drops (the ones that look like a ball of sugar candy) have always worked exactly the way I've wanted them to. I use them for all my 1-gallon pilot batches.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 21, 2014, 07:35:13 PM
It is specifically a bottling product, so I don't think yeast nutrient has anything to do with it, but I could be wrong.

I used it on a Flanders red blended - after 8 months of aging: 1/4th from an oak barrel and 3/4ths from a glass carboy of the same batch - ABV around 7%; Roselaere blend yeast, so Brett still working slowly.  I tried it since it had some yeast referenced as an ingredient and I was going to re-yeast with US-05, but this sounded easier for bottling a gallon while the rest continues to age in situ.

I intend to try a Solara style of aging and blending, so I will make a much smaller ABV batch for blending going forward.  I might try an all Brett batch, for example, if I can keep it warm enough.

I was hoping that this product would allow me to easily draw off smallish samples to blend and bottle - then carb with it.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 21, 2014, 07:35:59 PM
And, FWIW, the Coopers carb drops (the ones that look like a ball of sugar candy) have always worked exactly the way I've wanted them to. I use them for all my 1-gallon pilot batches.

I've found them to over-carbonate in the recommended dosage.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: euge on February 22, 2014, 12:04:10 AM
That capsule is gelatin based? Wonder if it clears up a beer?

I used to use a nutrient that was uric acid and DAP in the last 15 of the boil and it works well. Adding that smelly stuff to the bottling bucket doesn't appeal to me at all. As the devil's advocate: perhaps the pills have so little in them it doesn't affect the taste.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 24, 2014, 02:21:10 PM
I read a much better description in the Northern Brewer catalog this morning. It is priming sugar and dry yeast packaged in a vegan friendly capsule (so it's not gelatin).
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: reverseapachemaster on February 24, 2014, 04:21:31 PM
I don't have any experience with that product but before using it I would want to know the ph tolerance of the yeast in the capsule. Your sour beer might be too sour for the yeast they include in the capsule. I'd also be concerned about how many volumes of carbonation it will produce.

For my sour beers I add priming sugar to the desired carbonation and add some wine yeast. If I have dry wine yeast on hand then I just add a very small amount to each bottle. If I only have slurry on hand then I add the slurry in the bottling bucket as the beer is getting racked in so it mixes well.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Steve L on February 24, 2014, 07:40:29 PM
I just saw these in the latest Northern brewer catalog. I can see myself using them but only for beers that have extended lagering periods. That being said, i'd hate to find a capsule floatie or odd particulate in my doppelbock. I'm curious to hear of anyone's experience with these. I certainly don't mind doing a bit of math and mixing up some CBC-1 with my priming sugar, and it's cheaper; but the caps would certainly be easier. food for thought.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 24, 2014, 09:10:27 PM
I certainly don't mind doing a bit of math and mixing up some CBC-1 with my priming sugar, and it's cheaper; but the caps would certainly be easier. food for thought.
I'd hope they were smart and used a bottle conditioning yeast like CBC-1, but it doesn't say.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Stevie on February 24, 2014, 09:30:36 PM
I like the idea, but wish they were a bit less expensive. Maybe the price will go down if they work well and are well received. For me using a sanitized tea spoon and funnel is worth the extra $0.20-$0.30 per beer savings.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 25, 2014, 12:21:22 PM
I like the idea, but wish they were a bit less expensive. Maybe the price will go down if they work well and are well received. For me using a sanitized tea spoon and funnel is worth the extra $0.20-$0.30 per beer savings.

Agreed as to a whole batch, but pulling just a few bottles off for a competition allowed me a no brainier on mixing - 2 capsules in each bottle.  Hoping for the best....
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: euge on February 25, 2014, 01:59:47 PM
Why not just use sugar cubes...? Uniform, consistent and easily fit down the neck of a bottle.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Steve L on February 25, 2014, 02:19:07 PM
I'd also be curious to see what the expiration dates run on this, being a yeast product. I can get about 4 batches out of one bottle since I do 2.5 gallon batches but I don't see any use in using this in the ales that I brew more often than lagers. Having said that, it would still be nice to be able to lager a beer for 3-6 months and toss in a couple of capsules and be done with it!
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 25, 2014, 02:30:11 PM
Why not just use sugar cubes...? Uniform, consistent and easily fit down the neck of a bottle.
They still sell those?
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 25, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
Why not just use sugar cubes...? Uniform, consistent and easily fit down the neck of a bottle.
They still sell those?
And have you used them?  I'd be curious what degree of carbonation they would give.  Dose per bottle and all that.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: euge on February 25, 2014, 03:27:39 PM
I have not used basic sugar cubes yet but there is a box in the cupboard. They are 2.5g of sugar each so 1-3 per bottle sounds about right.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 25, 2014, 03:37:04 PM
I assume they are just sugar? No binders?
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: euge on February 25, 2014, 03:42:45 PM
I buy the "Imperial Sugar" brand and the FDA statement is: Ingredient: Sugar.

Not sure if this brand is available everywhere but is fairly ubiquitous here. A step up from house label sugar.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: morticaixavier on February 25, 2014, 03:44:58 PM
sugar IS a binder right?
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Stevie on February 25, 2014, 04:01:15 PM
I like this sugar cube idea a lot. I haven't seen a sugar cube in years. Will they fit in a standard bottle opening?
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: Jimmy K on February 25, 2014, 04:03:13 PM
sugar IS a binder right?
Yeah I would think they are produced by slightly wetting granulated sugar, forming, and then drying.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: euge on February 25, 2014, 04:48:47 PM
They do fit.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: erockrph on February 25, 2014, 07:17:44 PM
sugar IS a binder right?
Yeah I would think they are produced by slightly wetting granulated sugar, forming, and then drying.

Depending on how powdery the sugar is to start with, you probably don't need much/any moisture content. While lactose is far more common, sucrose can be used as a binder/bulking agent for tabletting pharmaceuticals. The pressure/heat from the die is generally enough to form a tablet on its own. Although for a sugar cube it may just be easier to heat the mold to melt the sugar partially to get it to stick.

I've heard the sugar cube idea discussed before and have been meaning to try it out myself. I think for my next batch of single-hopped brews I might try a side-by-side with the Coopers drops and sugar cubes for some of the brews.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: breslinp on February 25, 2014, 11:41:17 PM
I like this sugar cube idea a lot. I haven't seen a sugar cube in years. Will they fit in a standard bottle opening?

They fit most bottle openings. You should be able to get sugar cubes in a simple grocery store. Domino makes them. I use them when making an old fashioned, but have never tried them for bottle carbing. Can't be more than a few bucks for a box of hundreds.
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: vinnieb on March 26, 2014, 12:48:01 AM
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I didnt want to start a new one with the same title.  I used these prime dose caps in my last batch and the beer was bottled almost 2 months ago and has been sitting since.  I did not add priming sugar, because as I understood the vague directions, All I needed were these caps.  Well, so far 4 test 12oz bottles are all flatter than a carrier deck......and ideas?
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: morticaixavier on March 26, 2014, 02:27:33 AM
Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I didnt want to start a new one with the same title.  I used these prime dose caps in my last batch and the beer was bottled almost 2 months ago and has been sitting since.  I did not add priming sugar, because as I understood the vague directions, All I needed were these caps.  Well, so far 4 test 12oz bottles are all flatter than a carrier deck......and ideas?

does it taste at all sweet? are you sure about the bottle seals? is it really really high gravity? and finally, what temp are you conditioning at?

If all else fails you can make up a known strength syrup and dose with X ml per bottle. just pop each top, add specified amount of syrup and recap. give a gentle turn to get everything mixed and put them somewhere as close to 75* f as you have available
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: vinnieb on March 26, 2014, 02:30:28 AM
Its not sweet and I am very sure about the seals.  Not high gravity and stored at a constant 68f.  I was thinking about removing caps, and adding a bit of priming sugar and recapping.  Heck, I already blew up a keg, whats a few bottles!
Title: Re: Prime Dose for bottling
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 26, 2014, 11:03:47 AM
I tested a bottle last week and it was nicely carbed - Denny's RIPA.  Spoke with a rep at NB and he said it is sugar and CBC yeast.  It should work on all beers, so I am trying it out on a Barleywine and some more sours to see if they work in those situations.