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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: coyote68 on February 25, 2014, 08:24:09 PM

Title: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: coyote68 on February 25, 2014, 08:24:09 PM
Heres The Email i Got:

Dear ___,
Thank you for applying to enter the 2014 National Homebrew Competition. After two rounds of random lottery drawing, you are one of a small group of applicants that unfortunately did not get selected to enter the competition. The competition was able to accept 97 percent (all but 124) of an original pool of 3,557 total applicants.

The lottery system used for this year’s competition was intended to balance the goals of accommodating as many entrants as possible while avoiding wide variation in the number of entries per judge center, which would have created significant competitive advantages for those entrants in the judge centers with the fewest entries. See the NHC Registration Lottery story on HomebrewersAssociation.org for a complete explanation of the lottery process.

Ultimately, this year’s competition has around 3,200 entrants, compared to 2,187 entrants in last year’s competition, representing a 46 percent increase in the number of entrants competing. With more than 43,000 American Homebrewers Association members, it is simply not possible to ensure that every member will have an opportunity to enter the competition, but we will continue to strive to allow as many members as feasible to compete while ensuring the integrity of the competition.

Thank you.

well i am one that got the news that my membership doesn't have that privilige.
this lottery system really sucks.  >:(
seems pretty crappy to not even have a chance later on after the deadline to at the very least be given a chance to "fill in" one of the vacant spots.
 
and the AHA raised the membership dues this year....
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Stevie on February 25, 2014, 08:49:32 PM
Sorry you didn't make it in. This was their best shot at a fair solution and I am sure it will get better in the future.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: morticaixavier on February 25, 2014, 09:25:40 PM
I too am sorry you didn't make it in. it's not a perfect solution but I can't think of one that is. there is a finite number of slots available and a much larger pool of people trying to score those spots. someone is going to get left out in the cold.

On the bright side, there is next year and what other lotteries give you those kinds of odds? you had a ~3% chance of NOT getting in.

Hopefully we can figure out a way to be even more inclusive next year. It might be as simple as dropping the 'willing to ship to' selection and making it clear that you might get selected in ANY of the 12 judging centers. as I understand it most, if not all, of the 124 folks that didn't get it didn't get in because there was not room in any of their selected judging centers while some room remained in 4 centers.
Not being privy to the math or the programs used I can't say this would have accommodated all interested parties but it would have further reduced the ranks of the unlucky.

Again, I'm sorry to hear that you did not get in and I feel for all 124 of the members that did not. Let's hope it's better next year!
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 25, 2014, 09:33:29 PM
Yes it sucks.

Last year the forum was filled with unhappy people who didn't get in, as they had jobs, server crashed, etc.

They did accommodate many more in the competition this year.

The bottle neck is the availability of judges, to form judging sites. The solution is to have more take the test to increase the pool of BJCP judges. I became a judge a few years back, after having competed, it was time to pitch in and judge also.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: morticaixavier on February 25, 2014, 09:42:11 PM
Yes it sucks.

Last year the forum was filled with unhappy people who didn't get in, as they had jobs, server crashed, etc.

They did accommodate many more in the competition this year.

The bottle neck is the availability of judges, to form judging sites. The solution is to have more take the test to increase the pool of BJCP judges. I became a judge a few years back, after having competed, it was time to pitch in and judge also.

This is a good point. Even better than voting (which is always great!) we can each help out by getting involved in the judging itself. I'm signed up for a training course and exam this fall! so that should take care of it!  ;)
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: darwin18 on February 25, 2014, 09:57:51 PM
Yes, it's the BJCP's fault that all the slots in the competition have been filled.  Wait, what?  Four of the twelve centers aren't at full capacity? 

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/national-homebrew-competition-entry-registration-lottery/

How exactly would adding more competition centers make a difference when they're not filling to capacity for the existing centers?  It seems to me that a better solution would be to implement or develop a competition software that can adjust entries to make so that all the centers are completely filled.  I don't think it's particularly fair that I got the max of four entries and 124 other people couldn't get a single entry. 

I do think this year's entire process was a tremendous improvement so far over 2013's experience.  I hope that the AHA continues to improve this process and hopefully get everyone who registers at least one entry in future NHCs.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: udubdawg on February 25, 2014, 10:24:53 PM
if the OP's registration reflects that they would ship anywhere, and somehow despite some regions not being full they did not get in, then they have my sympathy, and deserve an explanation.  If this is a glitch then it needs to be worked out.

If, however, they put that they would ship to certain regions, and not to others, then I do not feel bad for them.
Everyone that registered has already had the chance to say where they are willing to send entries.  Offering them empty spots in regions they weren't willing to ship to is silly.  How about offering me one of those empty spots, since I said I was willing to send more than 4?!

Furthermore, a previous Zymurgy article said that there was room to expand the First Round by up to THREE, to 14 regionals.  It expanded by ONE.  Though we haven't been told where the biggest demand is located, I think we all know where it is.  Clubs in those areas are welcome to step up and organize additional First Round locations. 

124 is not a big number.  In the AHA's shoes I might have contacted the regions and inquired whether they were willing to expand from 750 to 800 or some other similar small increase to try to accommodate additional entrants.

cheers--
--Michael
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Pinski on February 25, 2014, 10:33:22 PM
Yes it sucks.

Last year the forum was filled with unhappy people who didn't get in, as they had jobs, server crashed, etc.

They did accommodate many more in the competition this year.

The bottle neck is the availability of judges, to form judging sites. The solution is to have more take the test to increase the pool of BJCP judges. I became a judge a few years back, after having competed, it was time to pitch in and judge also.

This is a good point. Even better than voting (which is always great!) we can each help out by getting involved in the judging itself. I'm signed up for a training course and exam this fall! so that should take care of it!  ;)

Right on guys, I'm signed up for the course and exam this spring too.

To the OP, sorry you didn't get in this year and I think the AHA did a great job of improving the process on several levels this year.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 25, 2014, 10:44:52 PM
Yes, it's the BJCP's fault that all the slots in the competition have been filled.  Wait, what?  Four of the twelve centers aren't at full capacity? 

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/national-homebrew-competition-entry-registration-lottery/

How exactly would adding more competition centers make a difference when they're not filling to capacity for the existing centers?  It seems to me that a better solution would be to implement or develop a competition software that can adjust entries to make so that all the centers are completely filled.  I don't think it's particularly fair that I got the max of four entries and 124 other people couldn't get a single entry. 

I do think this year's entire process was a tremendous improvement so far over 2013's experience.  I hope that the AHA continues to improve this process and hopefully get everyone who registers at least one entry in future NHCs.

If the growth continues, and I don't see it slowing, there will be no open slots next year and many more ticked off members.

More judges also allows the centers to get done in one weekend. There have been sites that needed many sessions to finish in the past.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Janis on February 26, 2014, 01:06:47 AM
Hi all,

Here's irony for you.  This afternoon we ran a 3rd lottery for the 124 to give them a chance to participate in the competition.  The spots we filled were in the 3 competitions that had not reached the 750 entry capacity.  Granted the 3 sites were not picked as alternative sites by any of those left out of the competition, but now they have a chance to be in the competition.  That's win-win in my book.

Good luck in the competition!

Cheers,
Janis
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Stevie on February 26, 2014, 01:10:51 AM
Yay Janis!
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 26, 2014, 01:50:50 AM
This is excellent Janis. Third lottery? Who knew?
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: bonjour on February 26, 2014, 02:38:07 AM
One thing I have learned about the AHA Staff is that they ALWAYS try to be inclusive. 

Thanks Janis
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: morticaixavier on February 26, 2014, 02:49:03 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: dannyjed on February 26, 2014, 03:10:03 AM
Great work by the AHA in accomadating the greatest number of homebrewers. The president from my club just found out that he can enter his beers now and he is turning cartwheels.
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Pinski on February 26, 2014, 05:19:12 AM
So, is she saying everyone that signed up can opt in?
That's fantastic!
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 26, 2014, 12:19:47 PM
I think they did a great job in being as fair as possible.  I am entering 2 beers for the first time in the NHC and got my third choice of sites.  My first choice site is a drop off site only 15 miles from my house and less then 3 miles from where I work, but since it is the Chicago area site, I expected that it would fill, so I am happy to ship to KC.  If I had not gotten in, I would have been disappointed, too.  Perhaps those who are shut out at their chosen sites could get  a choice of sending to any open sites, as they did this year, or be given 1 or 2 extra lottery spots the following year?  That might be unworkable, so I don't presume that it is feasible, but it would increase their odds without outright guaranteeing a spot?  Kinda like the NBA draft lottery....
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: Slowbrew on February 26, 2014, 01:18:29 PM
I understand the disappointment people are feeling about not making it through the lottery and wish you all luck in the new 3rd round.  (Full disclosure - I have never and will likely never enter a beer in a comp.  I brew for me and don't feel the need to gather chunks of metal to point out how great I am.  If comps are your thing, have fun.)

I'm impressed with the AHA on the solution they came up this year to get more people in.  After listening to 6 months of boo-hoo and woe-is-me whining last year about it all I can say is "GREAT JOB JANIS and THE CREW!!!".

To the few who still don't make it the first round I'll pass on some advice given to me a boss I had once.  It really pissed my team off at the time but, with a little more grey hair, it really is true.  "Life isn't fair, quit expecting it to be.  It isn't about you and you need to get over this set back and move forward." 

Feel free to express your disappointment but then contribute suggestions to improve the process.  Crying about it won't help you or those around you.

Again, great work this year AHA and thank you!

Paul
Title: Re: 124 members to not get into the 2014 home brew competition, post here
Post by: klickitat jim on February 26, 2014, 01:39:21 PM
I understand the disappointment people are feeling about not making it through the lottery and wish you all luck in the new 3rd round.  (Full disclosure - I have never and will likely never enter a beer in a comp.  I brew for me and don't feel the need to gather chunks of metal to point out how great I am.  If comps are your thing, have fun.)

I'm impressed with the AHA on the solution they came up this year to get more people in.  After listening to 6 months of boo-hoo and woe-is-me whining last year about it all I can say is "GREAT JOB JANIS and THE CREW!!!".

To the few who still don't make it the first round I'll pass on some advice given to me a boss I had once.  It really pissed my team off at the time but, with a little more grey hair, it really is true.  "Life isn't fair, quit expecting it to be.  It isn't about you and you need to get over this set back and move forward." 

Feel free to express your disappointment but then contribute suggestions to improve the process.  Crying about it won't help you or those around you.

Again, great work this year AHA and thank you!

Paul

So much of this is so true!