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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: ynotbrusum on March 08, 2014, 05:10:43 PM

Title: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 08, 2014, 05:10:43 PM
I was turned down at the local UPS store to ship my entries...now I am checking for other shippers that will accept the entries for shipment.  Aaarrgghh!
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: duboman on March 08, 2014, 05:24:55 PM
Try Fed Ex, how do you have the box labeled and what did you tell them? I simply box everything up, print my shipping label online via my account and drop it off. No questions asked. If they ask why the box is marked fragile I tell them it's a piece of art and it's double boxed with packing material, never an issue though as I've only been asked once.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 08, 2014, 05:28:48 PM
It is being sent to Apex Brew Wares in Independence MO.

Pretty tough to avoid the question - I said it is analytical samples - she then asked if it contained alcohol.  I  not going to lie....
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: james on March 08, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Definitely print your label at home and just drop it off, no questions asked.  It is also slightly cheaper. 

I've long ago given up with marking fragile, this end up, etc. Do you think anyone actually looks at the box?  If anything you are putting a big target on it to be tossed from 8 feet.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 08, 2014, 05:42:47 PM
My second spot was not UPS and has a special shipping arrangement for Beer and wine through a wine shipping company online (not available directly).  Pretty sure that they will treat it right!  And now I know where to go.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: udubdawg on March 08, 2014, 05:49:40 PM
"gifts" is my standard answer, but I haven't been asked this is years, because I have a FedEx account, print my own label, and drop it off with a wave.  No talking.

friends who have worked with both major shipping companies have told me they considered "fragile" and "handle with care" to be a challenge, thus unless the box I'm using already had this marked on it, I don't bother.
 
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Pinski on March 08, 2014, 08:25:48 PM
"gifts" is my standard answer, but I haven't been asked this is years, because I have a FedEx account, print my own label, and drop it off with a wave.  No talking.

friends who have worked with both major shipping companies have told me they considered "fragile" and "handle with care" to be a challenge, thus unless the box I'm using already had this marked on it, I don't bother.

Can't remember who to credit for this one, but my favorite and most truthful response is "yeast samples".
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 08, 2014, 08:33:25 PM
This is what is said at the FedEx website:

"Overview. Only properly licensed wholesalers, licensed dealers, licensed distributors, licensed manufacturers, licensed retailers or licensed importers may ship wine via FedEx® services. Consumers may not ship wine or alcohol of any type via FedEx services."

Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: denny on March 08, 2014, 08:48:32 PM
"gifts" is my standard answer, but I haven't been asked this is years, because I have a FedEx account, print my own label, and drop it off with a wave.  No talking.

friends who have worked with both major shipping companies have told me they considered "fragile" and "handle with care" to be a challenge, thus unless the box I'm using already had this marked on it, I don't bother.

Can't remember who to credit for this one, but my favorite and most truthful response is "yeast samples".

Except there have been many reports that they're on to that.  I say "gifts".
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: fmader on March 08, 2014, 08:51:42 PM
Yeah it's tough when you're shipping to a beer supply store to say you're sending flowers or something. I'm sending mine to Northern Brewer... I did last year too. I just told them that I was returning a beaker. I'm planning on that again Monday when I ship thus years.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Pinski on March 08, 2014, 09:02:20 PM
"gifts" is my standard answer, but I haven't been asked this is years, because I have a FedEx account, print my own label, and drop it off with a wave.  No talking.

friends who have worked with both major shipping companies have told me they considered "fragile" and "handle with care" to be a challenge, thus unless the box I'm using already had this marked on it, I don't bother.

Can't remember who to credit for this one, but my favorite and most truthful response is "yeast samples".

Except there have been many reports that they're on to that.  I say "gifts".

Good to know.
Fortunately, this year two of our LHBS are transporting entries to the Seattle site. Awesome service.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Stevie on March 08, 2014, 09:08:52 PM
Yeah, mine are going to austin Homebrew. I plan on addressing it to austin hbs and telling them it is a return.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: GolfBum on March 08, 2014, 09:59:14 PM
I ship via FedEx through my work. We get a really great price and FedEx just shows up and takes the packages. I have been to the store before and when they ask if it is liquids or anything I just say no. The person at the store doesn't really care. I package it well enough that I haven't had issues with broken glass.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dls5492 on March 09, 2014, 01:23:07 AM
The July/August issue of Zymurgy had a real good letter entitled "Homebrew Shipping Woes". This is one the the issues that AHA is working on. Does anyone know how much progress has been made?
BTW, I usually say I am returning plant items or I am shipping root beer. But, I like the Fedex suggestion and will pass that along to our club. I am sick and tired of lying about it.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ajk on March 09, 2014, 01:39:31 AM
I too use a FedEx account and preprint the label. But if I were asked, I'd say "glassware."
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 09, 2014, 03:33:26 AM
Yeah, but I don't like to lie about it.  It is ridiculous that you have to make up things to send homebrews to a competition!
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ajk on March 09, 2014, 03:43:39 AM
It's not made up—it is glassware. I didn't say what it was filled with. :-)
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 09, 2014, 04:30:51 AM
Except that you are expressly violating the company's policy against shipping alcohol.  That bugs me.  There should be a better way....
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: klickitat jim on March 09, 2014, 04:51:17 AM
I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Stevie on March 09, 2014, 05:36:36 AM
I'm sure the reason for the policies is all of the laws that surround alcohol. This state can't get this, that state won't allow that. Yada Yada Yada. When Ups or fedex do knowingly ship alcohol, such as a wine club, they do require an adult over 21 signature and cannot leave the package.

It's just easier to not do it.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Pinski on March 09, 2014, 06:01:59 AM
I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: morticaixavier on March 09, 2014, 06:04:46 AM
I'm pretty sure this is an issue that the AHA is working on right now. The USPS is discussing changing the rules around them shipping alcohol and while it's only for commercial purposes right now that's a foot in the door. It's certainly something I'd hope to help with if I am elected.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Stevie on March 09, 2014, 07:12:18 AM

I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

They make most the money shipping for large companies. Our $10-20 two or three times a year is drops in the bucket. Extra training to accept  an deliver alcohol would likely cost more than it is worth to them.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: klickitat jim on March 09, 2014, 08:23:56 AM
Hey, the President homebrews. Maybe the aha could invite him to submit a beer or two to NHC, and then see the burdens we all face.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 09, 2014, 11:46:42 AM
Hey, the President homebrews. Maybe the aha could invite him to submit a beer or two to NHC, and then see the burdens we all face.

I am pretty sure that the Secret Service would cut through any delivery issues!
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: jeremy0209 on March 09, 2014, 02:12:51 PM
I'm lucky that my drop off point is only about an hour drive from me, so for round one, I'm making the road trip.  It will probably cost me more in gas, but at least I know they'll get there safely.  Plus, it gives my beer a few more days in optimal conditions at my house instead of laying in a warehouse.  I'll figure out round 2, if I get through round 1.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: denny on March 09, 2014, 04:14:20 PM
The July/August issue of Zymurgy had a real good letter entitled "Homebrew Shipping Woes". This is one the the issues that AHA is working on. Does anyone know how much progress has been made?

I don't know a lot and I'm at liberty to say even less, but I assure that the AHA continues to work on shipping from several different approaches.  But when you deal with governmental regulations, it's slow going.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: denny on March 09, 2014, 04:16:49 PM
I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

The AHA tried to convince several shipping companies of that.  They all said that there wasn't enough money in it to make it worth their while.  That may seem absurd to us, but they have a different idea of "worth it".
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Pinski on March 09, 2014, 05:43:55 PM

I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

They make most the money shipping for large companies. Our $10-20 two or three times a year is drops in the bucket. Extra training to accept  an deliver alcohol would likely cost more than it is worth to them.

Right. I didn't mean to say that they are in fact losing money by not taking our business. But the ability to make a profit would certainly drive their decision.  So perhaps what we're learning is that the regulatory framework for shipping homebrew as is it is makes it a prohibitive venture for the freight companies. It appears the AHA is focusing on the regulatory aspect. Seems a daunting task regarding national competition, with much of the red tape at the state level.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: denny on March 09, 2014, 05:50:19 PM
Right. I didn't mean to say that they are in fact losing money by not taking our business. But the ability to make a profit would certainly drive their decision.  So perhaps what we're learning is that the regulatory framework for shipping homebrew as is it is makes it a prohibitive venture for the freight companies. It appears the AHA is focusing on the regulatory aspect. Seems a daunting task regarding national competition, with much of the red tape at the state level.

My understanding is that there's not enough volume/money on shipping homebrew to make it worth it to them.  Which is why the AHA is concentrating on the regulations.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: bonjour on March 09, 2014, 06:10:48 PM
I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

The AHA tried to convince several shipping companies of that.  They all said that there wasn't enough money in it to make it worth their while.  That may seem absurd to us, but they have a different idea of "worth it".
+1           It is a SLOW process

The AHA is VERY aware of this need.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Tim Thomssen on March 09, 2014, 06:38:08 PM
In my experience UPS seems to treat this as a don't ask don't tell type of situation.  I ship to competitions all the time, I pay online and drop off at the UPS service center and have never been asked about the contents.

Last year I got the dreaded email from UPS saying that my package had been damaged and was being returned.  When it arrived back to me I noticed there was one bottle missing that had obviously broken.  What was interesting was they completely repackaged the remaining bottles, bagged them and placed them in a new box.  They also included some packaging guidelines that suggested using enough packing material to keep the bottles at least 2 inches apart.  It was obviously beer in the bottles but they did not mention that or provide any type of scolding that you might expect for violating their policy.

I'm thinking they have the policy in place simply to limit their liability exposure in case alcohol was shipped to a minor.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: duboman on March 10, 2014, 12:20:26 AM

I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

The AHA tried to convince several shipping companies of that.  They all said that there wasn't enough money in it to make it worth their while.  That may seem absurd to us, but they have a different idea of "worth it".
is this because of the expense of the assumed liability or something else because I'm pretty sure that they make money on everything they ship regardless of one large account or one persons package. I know that every package I drop off I get a really nice thank you and a smile to boot!
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Pinski on March 10, 2014, 12:31:05 AM

I agree, but how do you force a private company to do something they don't want to?

I shipped my glass yesterday. Next year I think I'll just make a road trip and deliver it myself. Though delivering round two in person may not be practical, probably not needed either though... ;-)

Demonstrate that they're losing money.

The AHA tried to convince several shipping companies of that.  They all said that there wasn't enough money in it to make it worth their while.  That may seem absurd to us, but they have a different idea of "worth it".
is this because of the expense of the assumed liability or something else because I'm pretty sure that they make money on everything they ship regardless of one large account or one persons package. I know that every package I drop off I get a really nice thank you and a smile to boot!

I'm wondering the same thing. It would be interesting to know what it is specifically that makes the delivery of homebrew not "worth their while". If that's the case why do any individual shipments? Seems to me that liability could reasonably be placed on the sender if the concern is underage receipt. What about an exemption for non-commercial shipment?  Sorry, just thinking out the keyboard while sampling BDSA. Probably not the best path to a good solution.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Stevie on March 10, 2014, 12:44:34 AM
I think a large part of it is the liability. Various laws, interstate transport, delivery to minors, would the people that accept the package need to be 18 or 21, must be some of their concerns. My guess is it is easier to not deal with it and only work with registered shippers.

Maybe Homebrew shops can be a bridge between homebrewers and comps.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: duboman on March 10, 2014, 01:01:32 AM
It must be the assumed liability of the shipper in the event a minor accepts the package and well..the litigious society we live in would add to the overhead of insurance for it.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: denny on March 10, 2014, 03:57:11 PM

is this because of the expense of the assumed liability or something else because I'm pretty sure that they make money on everything they ship regardless of one large account or one persons package. I know that every package I drop off I get a really nice thank you and a smile to boot!

My understanding is that there simply aren't enough homebrewers to make it worth their while to change what they're doing now.  Beyond that, I know nothing.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: theDarkSide on March 10, 2014, 07:42:59 PM
My first round entries were received at the shipping location today via UPS.

My first step towards Ninkasi!!   ;D
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dkfick on March 10, 2014, 08:46:17 PM
I'm driving a bunch of entires for myself and others to the Chicago and Minneapolis locations this weekend... Chicago ones should be dropped off Friday and MN ones Sat. Planned the trip to MN so we could enter Chicago as primary and MN as secondary so either way we would be dropping them off :D
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 10, 2014, 08:52:52 PM
A guy in our club is hauling entries to Zanesville this weekend. He has family there.

We hauled club entries, and for some other brewers to Indy when first round was there. I have family there.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dkfick on March 10, 2014, 08:54:05 PM
A guy in our club is hauling entries to Zanesville this weekend. He has family there.

We hauled club entries, and for some other brewers to Indy when first round was there. I have family there.
Yeah I remember... that was the year I was screwed and my entries were deleted lol.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dkfick on March 10, 2014, 08:55:42 PM
I figure handling wise this should be a good year for us Michiganders.  Can drive to round 1 drop offs and round 2.  No shipping = happy beer lol.  I just wish I had better beers ready right now :-/
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 10, 2014, 10:32:40 PM
Chicago drop off is in Aurora.  So I'm shipping mine anyway.

They went out by UPS this morning.  Saves me a two hour scenic expressway round trip.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: fmader on March 10, 2014, 10:56:42 PM
UPS took mine today... You're all going down!  :P
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 11, 2014, 01:20:47 AM
A guy in our club is hauling entries to Zanesville this weekend. He has family there.

We hauled club entries, and for some other brewers to Indy when first round was there. I have family there.
Yeah I remember... that was the year I was screwed and my entries were deleted lol.

Can you explain that? Can't remember. Konrad and Phil did well if IIRC.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: fmader on March 11, 2014, 01:26:55 AM
A guy in our club is hauling entries to Zanesville this weekend. He has family there.

We hauled club entries, and for some other brewers to Indy when first round was there. I have family there.

Yeah, sort of a bummer I didn't get selected for Zanesville. It's a couple hours from home and I just drove past it yesterday for work. Will be heading by it again on Friday on the way home.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: ranchovillabrew on March 11, 2014, 01:27:42 AM
I got mine shipped off to Seattle today.  I printed the label at home.  No questions asked.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dkfick on March 11, 2014, 01:07:10 PM
A guy in our club is hauling entries to Zanesville this weekend. He has family there.

We hauled club entries, and for some other brewers to Indy when first round was there. I have family there.
Yeah I remember... that was the year I was screwed and my entries were deleted lol.

Can you explain that? Can't remember. Konrad and Phil did well if IIRC.
Registration opened the same day as the WEB Judging.  I got in registered some entries on that Friday.  Went to judge Sat and Sun.  Got home Sunday evening and my entries were all deleted and the competition was full.  I was sad lol.  There were postings saying you had 1 day to pay for your entries but I never noticed them.  1 Day was a bit slim I thought.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: braufessor on March 11, 2014, 05:22:02 PM
My wife just let me know that mine are successfully on their way to KC....
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: alers22 on March 11, 2014, 05:40:29 PM
Just sign up for a FedEx account.  Its free to set up and it cuts out any interaction with an employee who might decide to ask you a question.  Print your label, package it up and drop off at FedEx...no questions asked.  Not sure why doing it this way hasn't caught on since it is so simple.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 11, 2014, 06:56:37 PM
Delivered!

This is kind of exciting.  Glad that registration was reconfigured to make it easier to participate.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: theDarkSide on March 11, 2014, 07:11:13 PM
My wife just let me know that mine are successfully on their way to KC....

Now you have to list her as an assistant brewer
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: udubdawg on March 11, 2014, 10:27:14 PM
I "finalized" one entry.  Pouring 5 ciders and meads now to rank and get one spot.
Tomorrow should be fun; 10 beers to pick 1.  My Shockers are just waiting for Sunday and my Dawgs kinda suck so perhaps I'll run it as a tourney.  ;D
Thursday the voices in my head will pick between the runners up from tonight and tomorrow for the final spot.  Hand-delivering for the Wichita gang on Sunday.

...at least now I know the limit won't be any higher than this next year.  Can cut the brewing efforts waaaay down.

good luck to everyone!
--Michael
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: klickitat jim on March 12, 2014, 12:28:10 AM
Ran my tracking number, delivered.

We should start a new thread now. WHERE ARE MY SCORE SHEETS ????
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: dkfick on March 12, 2014, 03:32:09 AM
I "finalized" one entry.  Pouring 5 ciders and meads now to rank and get one spot.
Tomorrow should be fun; 10 beers to pick 1.  My Shockers are just waiting for Sunday and my Dawgs kinda suck so perhaps I'll run it as a tourney.  ;D
Thursday the voices in my head will pick between the runners up from tonight and tomorrow for the final spot.  Hand-delivering for the Wichita gang on Sunday.

...at least now I know the limit won't be any higher than this next year.  Can cut the brewing efforts waaaay down.

good luck to everyone!
--Michael

I'm in a similar situation.  15 beers to choose from... so far I know 1 mead is getting entered... 4 other meads to choose from as well... decisions decisions... I also still need to bottle 3 of them tomorrow night... sigh...
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: Steve L on March 12, 2014, 10:08:19 AM
I got mine shipped off to Seattle today.  I printed the label at home.  No questions asked.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Same here. Just shipped out to 2 different competitions. Don't ask don't tell. FYI you can set up a UPS account without using a credit card and it makes the process smoother online. They will bill you at the end of the month.
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: braufessor on March 12, 2014, 12:09:21 PM
My wife just let me know that mine are successfully on their way to KC....

Now you have to list her as an assistant brewer

Probably should with everything she lets me do in regard to brewing:)
Title: Re: NHC shipping issues
Post by: fmader on March 12, 2014, 01:15:35 PM
My wife just let me know that mine are successfully on their way to KC....

Now you have to list her as an assistant brewer

Probably should with everything she lets me do in regard to brewing:)
Apparently she scans your forum posts too  :P