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General Category => Events => Homebrew Competitions => Topic started by: duboman on March 09, 2014, 04:38:25 PM

Title: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 09, 2014, 04:38:25 PM
Let me start by clearly stating I am NOT trying to slam a club or comp, simply looking for thoughts or opinions on my curiosity:

A recent competition I just received scoring on (on-line, not actual score sheets) posted the results of all BOS and 31 tables. There were 733 entries and 341 participants.

The sponsoring club placed 31 medals of the 93 available or a full 30% of which, if my math is correct from only a pool of 10% of the total entrants. They also took the BOS in meads, ciders and beers making a total of 35 medals.

Does anyone else find this curious?

Side note: I sent the same beers to two separate comps and while I have not gotten score sheets/feedback from the most recent all entries received MUCH lower scores than the previous, like not even in the same ballpark
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Stevie on March 09, 2014, 05:16:10 PM
How many entries did that club have? From my experience, clubs tend to enter their own comps very heavily. I've seen a club claim a third of the prizes, but account for half the entries.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 09, 2014, 05:30:52 PM
How many entries did that club have? From my experience, clubs tend to enter their own comps very heavily. I've seen a club claim a third of the prizes, but account for half the entries.

Well, I honestly have no idea how many entries they had as a club but it's a big club of over 100 members I believe so I suppose that would answer my curiosity that they alone could have comprised well more than half the entries submitted if not more, I don't know, kind of takes the fun out of it :-\
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: jeffy on March 09, 2014, 06:07:00 PM
Good point on the local involvement.  There is always a push to win your own competition by getting the membership to enter as many beers as possible.
I'm glad the one mentioned wasn't our recent competition, because we have at least 5 clubs involved in running it.  It's hard to have a bias when the organizer, the judge director and the cellar men are all from different clubs.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 09, 2014, 06:27:17 PM
Good point on the local involvement.  There is always a push to win your own competition by getting the membership to enter as many beers as possible.
I'm glad the one mentioned wasn't our recent competition, because we have at least 5 clubs involved in running it.  It's hard to have a bias when the organizer, the judge director and the cellar men are all from different clubs.

It is a good point, but in the same breath, what's the point of having a sponsoring a comp and more than 50-60% of entries come from your own club taking home the bulk of medals? Is it just to amass a lot of points to place in the AHA club comp? MCAB Comp? Homebrewer of the Year award? If that's the goal, then I plan on doing more research on the club sponsored competitions I decide to enter in the future.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Bruce B on March 09, 2014, 06:47:25 PM
Based on the numbers provided in the initial post of this thread I'm pretty confident that I judged and won a first place medal in the competition that was being referenced.  I also would have been on the mini-bos panel that awarded 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, place entries for two categories and been on the Mead / Cider BoS panel as well.  I am not a member of the club that hosted the competition but I do know several of the members, organizers, and some of the history of the competition. 

The host club has several talented brewers.  In addition to doing very well every year in their own competition they also did very well at several of the other competitions that I coordinate.  Many of the club members brew specifically for this competition, which is probably why the entry limit was hit so quickly.  It's also a very well run competition and draws in several judges from out of the host club's state. 

Nothing to be curious about here.  These guys and gals just have game.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: mabrungard on March 09, 2014, 07:05:19 PM
Another factor that can influence the quality of beers judged, is whether the samples were shipped or dropped off. It is a proven fact that handling and vibration does reduce the quality and character of the beer. One factor that has proven itself is shipping to contests in the summer. The heat clearly accelerates the damage. Given the timing of this contest, it doesn't seem likely that heat had an effect. But in the absence of this factor, I don't doubt that the home club has really good brewers. Contest participation does have a way of refining and enhancing brewing skill.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: udubdawg on March 09, 2014, 08:48:01 PM

It is a good point, but in the same breath, what's the point of having a sponsoring a comp and more than 50-60% of entries come from your own club taking home the bulk of medals? Is it just to amass a lot of points to place in the AHA club comp? MCAB Comp? Homebrewer of the Year award? If that's the goal, then I plan on doing more research on the club sponsored competitions I decide to enter in the future.

I guess I just don't understand what the problem is.
Competitions are about who has the best beer, right?   Does it matter where it comes from?
AHA Club of the year comes only from NHC anymore.  MCAB is a circuit known well in advance anyone can enter.  Homebrewer of the Year sounds like a solo award; who cares if a club has a bunch of medals.  What goal are you talking about?  Is there anything really other than bragging rights at stake here?

Also, while I'm happy if a fellow club member wins something, I can't say that it really means anything to me.  It's not like they were all club group brews.  There's a few of those, sure, but it doesn't really say anything about my brewing if a fellow club member wins.

Finally, with the insane amount of work that sponsoring clubs put into a competition, the awards/banquet can be a "we're finally done!" party.  Why shouldn't they have a bunch of beers entered and cheer for their friends who win?  They did all the work!
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Rhoobarb on March 09, 2014, 08:48:30 PM
What Bruce B said.  I had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in this comp, along with two that didn't place at all.  The wins are something I am very proud of, mainly b/c the club in question has SO many top-notch brewers. And so many brewers from outside the club bring their game. I look forward to this comp each year, as it is so well run and is a real indicator of just how good (or not so good) your beers are.  The score sheet feedback is usually very thorough, too.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 09, 2014, 09:09:54 PM
I figured out the comp, looked it up, and a friend from my club did well. He is a top notch brewer, and often medals in this competition.

The host club has some outstanding brewers. Yes they do.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 09, 2014, 10:03:28 PM

It is a good point, but in the same breath, what's the point of having a sponsoring a comp and more than 50-60% of entries come from your own club taking home the bulk of medals? Is it just to amass a lot of points to place in the AHA club comp? MCAB Comp? Homebrewer of the Year award? If that's the goal, then I plan on doing more research on the club sponsored competitions I decide to enter in the future.

I guess I just don't understand what the problem is.
Competitions are about who has the best beer, right?   Does it matter where it comes from?
AHA Club of the year comes only from NHC anymore.  MCAB is a circuit known well in advance anyone can enter.  Homebrewer of the Year sounds like a solo award; who cares if a club has a bunch of medals.  What goal are you talking about?  Is there anything really other than bragging rights at stake here?

Also, while I'm happy if a fellow club member wins something, I can't say that it really means anything to me.  It's not like they were all club group brews.  There's a few of those, sure, but it doesn't really say anything about my brewing if a fellow club member wins.

Finally, with the insane amount of work that sponsoring clubs put into a competition, the awards/banquet can be a "we're finally done!" party.  Why shouldn't they have a bunch of beers entered and cheer for their friends who win?  They did all the work!

There really isn't a problem and I'm sorry you thought I implied there was one. I didn't really give thought to the fact that a club of over a hundred brewers could have each member submit several entries and essentially have more than half the entries in the comp as a whole, It all makes more sense that way.

I'm sorry if if this came off as a bash in anyway as I clearly stated that was not my intent to start. Congrats to those that won with their outstanding beers and all those that help put all this together, looking forward to my scoresheets and reviews.

I am not petty, nor am I a sore loser, I like my beer and am proud of my product.

Cheers,
Gary
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: mklawz on March 10, 2014, 12:21:47 PM
As the Head Organizer for the DMC I'd like to offer some replies....

There were 733 entries and 341 participants. - THE PARTICIPANT NUMBER INCLUDES COMPETITORS, JUDGES, AND STEWARDS.  WE HAD OVER 160 VOLUNTEERS REGISTERED IN OUR SYSTEM.

it's a big club of over 100 members - YES, WE ARE ONE OF THE LARGEST, OLDEST, AND ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN CLUBS IN THE MIDWEST.

How many entries did that club have? - HECK IF I KNOW, I'D HAVE TO DO THE MATH MANUALLY AND I'M NOT ABOUT TO SPEND TIME ON THAT.

they alone could have comprised well more than half the entries submitted if not more, I don't know, kind of takes the fun out of it - TAKES THE FUN OUT FOR WHO?  AND HOW SO?    WE AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO HALF ANYWAY.

what's the point of having a sponsoring a comp and more than 50-60% of entries come from your own club taking home the bulk of medals - WHAT'S THE POINT?  CAMARADERIE, FEEDBACK, FUN, TALKING SMACK, BRAGGING RIGHTS.  IT'S OUR CLUB'S BIGGEST EVENT, OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK AND PUT THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD.  AS FOR YOUR PERCENTAGE AND MY ABOVE COMMENTS ABOUT COUNTING ENTRIES, AFTER QUICKLY SCROLLING THRU ALL THE ENTRIES, I WOULD *GUESS* THAT ROUGHLY 30% ARE OUR CLUB'S ENTRIES.  IT'S NOWHERE NEAR 50-60%. 

The host club has several talented brewers. - THANKS BRUCE!   HONESTLY, OUR CLUB HAS DOZENS OF EXTREMELY TALENTED BREWERS.   JOE FORMANEK - 2X NINKASI WINNER, 5X MIDWEST HOMEBREWER OF THE YEAR, AND LONGSHOT WINNER.  RODNEY KIBZEY - MEAD MAKER OF THE YEAR, 2X LONGSHOT WINNER, MANY NHC MEDALS.   YOURS TRULY - MCAB GRAND CHAMPION, 4X MCAB MEDALIST WITH 3 GOLDS, 2X NHC MEDALIST.   AND MANY OTHER GUYS WHO CLEAN UP AT LOCAL AREA COMPS.   LOTS OF GUYS JUST DONT CARE ABOUT ENTERING ALL THESE COMPS, BUT THEY SURE DO ENTER THEIR HOME-TURF COMP.   ONE OF OUR CLUB'S BIGGEST GUNS WAS UNEMPLOYED FOR OVER A YEAR.  THIS GUY MAKES BETTER BEERS, MEADS, AND CIDERS THAN THE STUFF YOU PAY $15 A BOTTLE FOR.   ANYWAY, DOES HE SEND HIS ENTRIES TO SOME FAR AWAY COMP WHILE HE'S OUT OF WORK?  NO, BUT HE ENTERS THE DMC. 

Is it just to amass a lot of points to place in the AHA club comp? MCAB Comp? Homebrewer of the Year award?  WE ARE A QUALIFYING EVENT FOR MCAB SO WE PULL PEOPLE FOR THAT.  BUT ACTUALLY, WE PULL OUT OF STATERS FOR THAT.  ONLY A HANDFUL OF GUYS IN OUR OUR CLUB GIVE A HOOT ABOUT NHC AND MCAB.    NO, YOU DONT GET AHA POINTS FOR LOCAL COMPS.  WE ARE ALSO A MEMBER OF HOMEBREWER OF THE YEAR CIRCUIT, BUT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF DUCKING OUR COMP BECAUSE IT'S SO HARD TO WIN!

Is there anything really other than bragging rights at stake here? - NOPE, THAT'S IT.  JUST BRAGGING RIGHTS.

Finally, with the insane amount of work that sponsoring clubs put into a competition, the awards/banquet can be a "we're finally done!" party.  Why shouldn't they have a bunch of beers entered and cheer for their friends who win?  They did all the work! - DAMN STRAIGHT!    MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE THE FIRST CLUE ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WORK IT TAKES TO PUT THESE THINGS ON.  ESPECIALLY ONE OF OUR SIZE.    LIKE MENTIONED EARLIER, IT'S OUR BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR.  IT'S OUR "BABY",  THE FOUNDERS OF THIS COMP WORKED EXTREMELY HARD TO BUILD IT UP TO WHAT IT HAS BECOME.  AND MY CURRENT TEAM IS THE HARDEST WORKING AND MOST DEDICATED GROUP OF PEOPLE I'M ASSOCIATED WITH.    THERE IS A REASON SOME COMPS ARE "GOOD" COMPS AND SOME ARE NOT.  IT'S THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT.  OUR CLUB PUTS ON A GREAT EVENT FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BE A PART OF IT, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  MANY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OUR CLUB LOOK FORWARD TO PARTICIPATING AND ATTENDING EVERY YEAR.  AND NOW MANY OF THEM WE CONSIDER PART OF OUR COMMUNITY AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THEM COME EVERY YEAR.   AND YES, I HOPE THEY WIN.   WHY WOULDN'T I WANT MY FRIENDS AND FELLOW CLUB MEMBERS TO GET RECOGNITION FOR THEIR EFFORTS?   NOTHING QUIETS THE CROWD MORE THAN WHEN I CALL OUT SOMEONE'S NAME FROM CALIFORNIA (FOR EXAMPLE) AND NO ONE WALKS UP TO THE PODIUM.  (ACTUALLY, THERE IS ALWAYS SOME APPLAUSE).    BUT WHEN THE FOLKS WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE WIN, IT'S FUN!   THEY ARE THRILLED, AND EVERYONE IS THRILLED FOR THEM.  THAT'S WHY SO MANY LOCAL PEOPLE ENTER, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE A PART OF THE FUN.

I had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in this comp, - ANOTHER GREAT SHOWING BY RHOOBARB!

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT WINNING PERCENTAGES, OUR CLUB'S WINS GO DOWN AS THE YEARS GO ON.  WE CONTINUE TO ATTRACT MORE AND MORE ENTRIES FROM EVERY CORNER OF THE COUNTRY.   AND IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO WIN.  THAT'S A FACT.

I HOPE THIS HELPS CLEAR UP SOME OF THE CURIOSITY/CONCERNS YOU HAVE ABOUT OUR COMPETITION.  I ALSO HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO ENTER AND I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ATTEND ONE YEAR.  IT'S A GREAT TIME!

CHEERS!
YOUR DMC ORGANIZER
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on March 10, 2014, 12:35:46 PM
Kudos
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 10, 2014, 12:46:24 PM

As the Head Organizer for the DMC I'd like to offer some replies....

There were 733 entries and 341 participants. - THE PARTICIPANT NUMBER INCLUDES COMPETITORS, JUDGES, AND STEWARDS.  WE HAD OVER 160 VOLUNTEERS REGISTERED IN OUR SYSTEM.

it's a big club of over 100 members - YES, WE ARE ONE OF THE LARGEST, OLDEST, AND ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN CLUBS IN THE MIDWEST.

How many entries did that club have? - HECK IF I KNOW, I'D HAVE TO DO THE MATH MANUALLY AND I'M NOT ABOUT TO SPEND TIME ON THAT.

they alone could have comprised well more than half the entries submitted if not more, I don't know, kind of takes the fun out of it - TAKES THE FUN OUT FOR WHO?  AND HOW SO?    WE AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO HALF ANYWAY.

what's the point of having a sponsoring a comp and more than 50-60% of entries come from your own club taking home the bulk of medals - WHAT'S THE POINT?  CAMARADERIE, FEEDBACK, FUN, TALKING SMACK, BRAGGING RIGHTS.  IT'S OUR CLUB'S BIGGEST EVENT, OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK AND PUT THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD.  AS FOR YOUR PERCENTAGE AND MY ABOVE COMMENTS ABOUT COUNTING ENTRIES, AFTER QUICKLY SCROLLING THRU ALL THE ENTRIES, I WOULD *GUESS* THAT ROUGHLY 30% ARE OUR CLUB'S ENTRIES.  IT'S NOWHERE NEAR 50-60%. 

The host club has several talented brewers. - THANKS BRUCE!   HONESTLY, OUR CLUB HAS DOZENS OF EXTREMELY TALENTED BREWERS.   JOE FORMANEK - 2X NINKASI WINNER, 5X MIDWEST HOMEBREWER OF THE YEAR, AND LONGSHOT WINNER.  RODNEY KIBZEY - MEAD MAKER OF THE YEAR, 2X LONGSHOT WINNER, MANY NHC MEDALS.   YOURS TRULY - MCAB GRAND CHAMPION, 4X MCAB MEDALIST WITH 3 GOLDS, 2X NHC MEDALIST.   AND MANY OTHER GUYS WHO CLEAN UP AT LOCAL AREA COMPS.   LOTS OF GUYS JUST DONT CARE ABOUT ENTERING ALL THESE COMPS, BUT THEY SURE DO ENTER THEIR HOME-TURF COMP.   ONE OF OUR CLUB'S BIGGEST GUNS WAS UNEMPLOYED FOR OVER A YEAR.  THIS GUY MAKES BETTER BEERS, MEADS, AND CIDERS THAN THE STUFF YOU PAY $15 A BOTTLE FOR.   ANYWAY, DOES HE SEND HIS ENTRIES TO SOME FAR AWAY COMP WHILE HE'S OUT OF WORK?  NO, BUT HE ENTERS THE DMC. 

Is it just to amass a lot of points to place in the AHA club comp? MCAB Comp? Homebrewer of the Year award?  WE ARE A QUALIFYING EVENT FOR MCAB SO WE PULL PEOPLE FOR THAT.  BUT ACTUALLY, WE PULL OUT OF STATERS FOR THAT.  ONLY A HANDFUL OF GUYS IN OUR OUR CLUB GIVE A HOOT ABOUT NHC AND MCAB.    NO, YOU DONT GET AHA POINTS FOR LOCAL COMPS.  WE ARE ALSO A MEMBER OF HOMEBREWER OF THE YEAR CIRCUIT, BUT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF DUCKING OUR COMP BECAUSE IT'S SO HARD TO WIN!

Is there anything really other than bragging rights at stake here? - NOPE, THAT'S IT.  JUST BRAGGING RIGHTS.

Finally, with the insane amount of work that sponsoring clubs put into a competition, the awards/banquet can be a "we're finally done!" party.  Why shouldn't they have a bunch of beers entered and cheer for their friends who win?  They did all the work! - DAMN STRAIGHT!    MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE THE FIRST CLUE ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WORK IT TAKES TO PUT THESE THINGS ON.  ESPECIALLY ONE OF OUR SIZE.    LIKE MENTIONED EARLIER, IT'S OUR BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR.  IT'S OUR "BABY",  THE FOUNDERS OF THIS COMP WORKED EXTREMELY HARD TO BUILD IT UP TO WHAT IT HAS BECOME.  AND MY CURRENT TEAM IS THE HARDEST WORKING AND MOST DEDICATED GROUP OF PEOPLE I'M ASSOCIATED WITH.    THERE IS A REASON SOME COMPS ARE "GOOD" COMPS AND SOME ARE NOT.  IT'S THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT.  OUR CLUB PUTS ON A GREAT EVENT FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BE A PART OF IT, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  MANY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OUR CLUB LOOK FORWARD TO PARTICIPATING AND ATTENDING EVERY YEAR.  AND NOW MANY OF THEM WE CONSIDER PART OF OUR COMMUNITY AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THEM COME EVERY YEAR.   AND YES, I HOPE THEY WIN.   WHY WOULDN'T I WANT MY FRIENDS AND FELLOW CLUB MEMBERS TO GET RECOGNITION FOR THEIR EFFORTS?   NOTHING QUIETS THE CROWD MORE THAN WHEN I CALL OUT SOMEONE'S NAME FROM CALIFORNIA (FOR EXAMPLE) AND NO ONE WALKS UP TO THE PODIUM.  (ACTUALLY, THERE IS ALWAYS SOME APPLAUSE).    BUT WHEN THE FOLKS WHO ARE IN ATTENDANCE WIN, IT'S FUN!   THEY ARE THRILLED, AND EVERYONE IS THRILLED FOR THEM.  THAT'S WHY SO MANY LOCAL PEOPLE ENTER, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE A PART OF THE FUN.

I had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in this comp, - ANOTHER GREAT SHOWING BY RHOOBARB!

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT WINNING PERCENTAGES, OUR CLUB'S WINS GO DOWN AS THE YEARS GO ON.  WE CONTINUE TO ATTRACT MORE AND MORE ENTRIES FROM EVERY CORNER OF THE COUNTRY.   AND IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO WIN.  THAT'S A FACT.

I HOPE THIS HELPS CLEAR UP SOME OF THE CURIOSITY/CONCERNS YOU HAVE ABOUT OUR COMPETITION.  I ALSO HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO ENTER AND I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ATTEND ONE YEAR.  IT'S A GREAT TIME!

CHEERS!
YOUR DMC ORGANIZER

Wow! First post and you choose to basically YELL and SCREAM?!?

Makes me sorry I posted a thread for asking an opinion on something......

Again, to all, sorry if my question ruffled some feathers:(

Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: udubdawg on March 10, 2014, 12:56:27 PM

Wow! First post and you choose to basically YELL and SCREAM?!?

Makes me sorry I posted a thread for asking an opinion on something......

Again, to all, sorry if my question ruffled some feathers:(

mklawz certainly didn't need to yell, but I think summed it well when the competition was described as "their baby."  Being protective or defensive when someone suggests the results of your efforts seem curious is natural.  But no worries - I think we all realize you were just trying to understand how it happens. 

if I had a competition that good in in my city I'd enter it very heavily.  Maybe I'll enter theirs next year but I generally hate shipping.  Don't wanna be accused of "ducking" them though.   ;)

cheers--
--Michael
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: mklawz on March 10, 2014, 01:23:50 PM
Was I yelling?  Because of ALL CAPS?  Geez come on.  What's the protocol for replying like that then, I'm not very forum-savvy apparently.  I thought I offered very good explanations (albeit a bit lengthy in spots I agree). 

My first post?  I guess on AHA is it.  When they took it over from NB I decided I couldn't handle another forum.  I used to be very active on forums like NB, Midwest, HBT.  I put in my time on the forums trying to help newbies and share my knowledge and experience.  You should know that since you and I shared about 20 emails leading up to the comp trying to help you.  Now multiply that by dozens of other people asking questions and then you might get an idea on how much time we put in.   Anyway,  I got burnt out on the forums, that's all.    Not sure why I'm defending myself anyway...

You should know that some people I know who have read this is taking your "curiosity"  as questioning the integrity of our competition.  I told them to  give you the benefit of the doubt ;)

Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: tommymorris on March 10, 2014, 02:07:43 PM
I think the caps where used to differentiate question from response. Not to yell.

PS. I enter one comp a year. My local club's comp. The club is full of my friends and I want to support the comp. Plus it is fun to get a medal in front of my friends (rarely I admit.)
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: dkfick on March 10, 2014, 02:09:32 PM
I really wouldn't have an issue entering a competition where 99% of the entries came from 1 club...and I was the only non-club member in the competition.  My beers should still have the exact same chance to medal as they would in any other comp (assuming handling to and at the comp is the same for all given entries).
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Stevie on March 10, 2014, 02:11:18 PM

PS. I enter one comp a year. My local club's comp. The club is full of my friends and I want to support the comp. Plus it is fun to get a medal in front of my friends (rarely I admit.)

Before this year, I did the same. I think many club members will enter their own club's comps to support their club. They are direct benefactors of the money raised.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: mklawz on March 10, 2014, 02:18:05 PM
I think the caps where used to differentiate question from response. Not to yell.

Thank you, alestateyall.  LESSON LEARNED!   ;D
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: AmandaK on March 10, 2014, 02:44:20 PM
...Now multiply that by dozens of other people asking questions and then you might get an idea on how much time we put in. 

Oh my God, if people had any idea how much time is spent answering the same 20-25 questions from seemingly every single entrant... no one would be a competition organizer! Hahahahaha.  ;D But seriously, answering those same questions over and over and over again... you couldn't pay me to do it next year!
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: duboman on March 10, 2014, 03:00:21 PM
All right everybody, boy am I sorry I posted this in the first place! We can all stop bashing Gary now and get on with our Monday.

I get it, I'm not questioning the integrity of the club, it's participants or the competition and this has really turned into something beyond, well, I don't know.

To those that offered up the insight into the entry numbers, etc in a constructive way to what I originally asked, thank you. To those that I obviously offended or put off, my sincere apologies. I think I'll just keep my posts related to beer topics moving forward.

Hope everyone has a great day!
Gary
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Bruce B on March 10, 2014, 03:29:24 PM
...MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE THE FIRST CLUE ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF WORK IT TAKES TO PUT THESE THINGS ON....

Amen my brother!
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: denny on March 10, 2014, 03:42:39 PM
Was I yelling?  Because of ALL CAPS?  Geez come on.  What's the protocol for replying like that then, I'm not very forum-savvy apparently.  I thought I offered very good explanations (albeit a bit lengthy in spots I agree). 

My first post?  I guess on AHA is it.  When they took it over from NB I decided I couldn't handle another forum.  I used to be very active on forums like NB, Midwest, HBT.  I put in my time on the forums trying to help newbies and share my knowledge and experience.  You should know that since you and I shared about 20 emails leading up to the comp trying to help you.  Now multiply that by dozens of other people asking questions and then you might get an idea on how much time we put in.   Anyway,  I got burnt out on the forums, that's all.    Not sure why I'm defending myself anyway...

You should know that some people I know who have read this is taking your "curiosity"  as questioning the integrity of our competition.  I told them to  give you the benefit of the doubt ;)

Your points are valid, but you made them a little strongly.  As you said, give him the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Jimmy K on March 10, 2014, 04:10:36 PM
Was I yelling?  Because of ALL CAPS?  Geez come on.  What's the protocol for replying like that then, I'm not very forum-savvy apparently.  I thought I offered very good explanations (albeit a bit lengthy in spots I agree). 
First - I'm also a competition organizer, so I understand that's it's a tough job. Contestants have every right to ask questions, I'm sure you understand that as an organizer you must calmly answer each one. Even if the same question has been asked 20 times, it's the first time that person has asked it.
 
Second - It's probably rarely meant this way, but YES ALL CAPS MEANS YOU'RE YELLING. At least that's how people will interpret it. Try the italics button up there. It's a better, more subtle option. CAPS LOCK is also very difficult to read (from a typesetting standpoint), so it's fine for emphasis on a few words, but entire paragraphs are going to frustrate even sympathetic readers. Unfortunately, very few will read through a well-crafted response if it is long - and even fewer if it is difficult to read.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: mklawz on March 10, 2014, 06:08:32 PM

 I'm sure you understand that as an organizer you must calmly answer each one. Even if the same question has been asked 20 times, it's the first time that person has asked it.

Yes, I know, I've been doing this for a while.   I answered each and every question (hundreds of emails back and forth) very politely and informatively.  I know Gary can attest to that himself.   

In this thread I've had to defend the integrity of my club and competition, my use of ALL CAPS, and my tone of voice.  I think we  can all agree it's gotten silly.   This will be my last post.  I have to go stuff envelops with hundreds of score sheets and dozens of medals!  Looking at the stacks of both, sure seems to me there were plenty of out-of-area competitors!  :)
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Jimmy K on March 10, 2014, 06:18:36 PM
I have to go stuff envelops with hundreds of score sheets and dozens of medals! 
Oy vey!
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: Scot (one T) on March 10, 2014, 07:10:35 PM
     I'd wager that in 90% of competitions, the home club takes home a significant percentage of the awards.  It's natural to support your own comp.   A large number of my club members only enter ours.   Some are excellent brewers who have no interest in shipping entries to other cities/states. 
     
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: uchima on March 11, 2014, 04:46:32 AM
By the numbers, we (the hosting club) had 27% of the entries. So our winning percentage was a little better than the homebrewing community at large, but only just barely.

As a side note for future competitions (both ours and others'), if you try to enter a competition and find that the entry cap has already been reached, it is worth checking occasionally to see if any entries have been withdrawn. Although our cap was hit within the first few days after registration opened, there were slots opening up all the way until the entry deadline. As a corollary to this, if you register an entry and subsequently (but prior to the deadline) change your mind, please log in and delete it from your account as a courtesy to others who might want your slot! Although we capped at 800 this year, only 733 entries actually showed up.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on March 11, 2014, 05:10:27 AM
It's supposed to be sunny and 58° tomorrow.

Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on March 11, 2014, 12:59:13 PM
It's supposed to be sunny and 58° tomorrow.

THAT IS GOOD WEATHER.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: fmader on March 11, 2014, 01:28:29 PM
It's supposed to be sunny and 58° tomorrow.

That's good for the hops, Jim.... Gonna be 65 here today.... Then we will be polar vortexed again and have it drop to 4 degrees by tomorrow night. Gotta love a quick 60 degree drop in temperature.... This, not so good for the hops.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on March 12, 2014, 01:27:57 PM
I'm surprised my hops are still alive. 85 yesterday, 35 today.
Title: Re: Thoughts/Opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 12, 2014, 02:40:42 PM
I'm surprised my hops are still alive. 85 yesterday, 35 today.
We had 2 sunny warm days in the 50s. The hops were still under a foot of snow. About 7 inches of fresh snow has fallen on top of that. The predicted low is 0F tonight. It is still winter on the calendar, so it can be expected up here in MI.