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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: klickitat jim on March 20, 2014, 04:47:31 AM

Title: Dissent with Style
Post by: klickitat jim on March 20, 2014, 04:47:31 AM
Bought a mix match 12 pack of Sam Adams. I saw that one is an IPA. About to open one so o thought I'd read the label.

Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices

Lol!!!! I see Koch smelling hops then tossing in orange peels and coriander instead, then cracking open a New Belgium as he throws darts at a poster of Vinie and Gordon.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: klickitat jim on March 20, 2014, 04:55:25 AM
Actually it's not bad. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/adyzaguj.jpg)
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2014, 12:03:08 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.

Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Three on March 20, 2014, 01:07:49 PM
2008 BJCP Style Guidelines
Category 16 — Belgian and French Ale

16E. Belgian Specialty Ale

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/174/?start=50

Beeradvocate has over 650 examples of the style in this list alone.  Some pretty prominent brewers......

Belgian IPA

Description:
Inspired by the American India Pale Ale (IPA) and Double IPA, more and more Belgian brewers are brewing hoppy pale colored ales for the US market (like Chouffe & Urthel), and there's been an increase of Belgian IPAs being brewed by American brewers. Generally, Belgian IPAs are considered too hoppy by Belgian beer drinkers.

Various malts are used, but the beers of the style are finished with Belgian yeast strains (bottle-conditioned)  and the hops employed tend to be American.  You'll generally find a cleaner bitterness vs. American styles, and a pronounced dry edge (very Belgian), often akin to an IPA crossed with a Belgian Tripel.  Alcohol by volume is on the high side. Many examples are quite cloudy, and feature tight lacing, excellent retention, and fantastic billowy heads that  mesmerize (thanks, in part, to the hops).

Belgian IPA is still very much a style in development.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 20, 2014, 01:18:06 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: weithman5 on March 20, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
the whitewater ipa is actually not bad.
i think double ipa's are better in general
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Three on March 20, 2014, 01:25:23 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

Yep.  I looked at the specs on Rebel and they fall right in line with an American IPA style. 

I do love an "American IPA" that get's out of bounds on the hops though!
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2014, 01:27:23 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

I don't disagree. There has to be some of that at work, but the Rebel, especially calling itself a 'West Coast' style IPA is pretty...umm....mild.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: redbeerman on March 20, 2014, 01:38:05 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

It's that American penchant for all things subtle.  ;)
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 20, 2014, 02:06:32 PM

Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

I don't disagree. There has to be some of that at work, but the Rebel, especially calling itself a 'West Coast' style IPA is pretty...umm....mild.
Any particular part that you thought was mild? bitterness? flavor? everything? My impression of west coast IPA's was an emphasis on hops with restrained malt and bitterness. But also, that there was a wide variety in IPA at each brewery too - from tame to sucker punch. It could be that that's what stood out the most as different from east coast IPA's.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2014, 02:10:53 PM

Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

I don't disagree. There has to be some of that at work, but the Rebel, especially calling itself a 'West Coast' style IPA is pretty...umm....mild.
Any particular part that you thought was mild? bitterness? flavor? everything? My impression of west coast IPA's was an emphasis on hops with restrained malt and bitterness. But also, that there was a wide variety in IPA at each brewery too - from tame to sucker punch. It could be that that's what stood out the most as different from east coast IPA's.

Low bitterness and hop flavor IMO. The malt base was restrained and dry as expected, but very little hoppiness. West Coast APA would be more accurate, I guess.

EDIT  -  I perceive their IPL as being a hoppier, better overall beer. Pretty good for the $$.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: erockrph on March 20, 2014, 02:34:58 PM

Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

I don't disagree. There has to be some of that at work, but the Rebel, especially calling itself a 'West Coast' style IPA is pretty...umm....mild.
Any particular part that you thought was mild? bitterness? flavor? everything? My impression of west coast IPA's was an emphasis on hops with restrained malt and bitterness. But also, that there was a wide variety in IPA at each brewery too - from tame to sucker punch. It could be that that's what stood out the most as different from east coast IPA's.

Low bitterness and hop flavor IMO. The malt base was restrained and dry as expected, but very little hoppiness. West Coast APA would be more accurate, I guess.

EDIT  -  I perceive their IPL as being a hoppier, better overall beer. Pretty good for the $$.

I actually thought the Rebel was a decent IPA. It's definitely not "OMGWTFBBQ!!1!!!1!1!one!!11!!! HOOOOPPPPSSSS!!!!!!" level of hopping, but the bitterness was on par with an IPA and there was a decent level of hops to it. In the ballpark of Stone IPA, not "Enjoy by IPA".
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2014, 02:39:55 PM

Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.
I'd say more like we're all starting to expect our IPAs to taste like double IPAs. Lupulin threshold shift and all...

I don't disagree. There has to be some of that at work, but the Rebel, especially calling itself a 'West Coast' style IPA is pretty...umm....mild.
Any particular part that you thought was mild? bitterness? flavor? everything? My impression of west coast IPA's was an emphasis on hops with restrained malt and bitterness. But also, that there was a wide variety in IPA at each brewery too - from tame to sucker punch. It could be that that's what stood out the most as different from east coast IPA's.

Low bitterness and hop flavor IMO. The malt base was restrained and dry as expected, but very little hoppiness. West Coast APA would be more accurate, I guess.

EDIT  -  I perceive their IPL as being a hoppier, better overall beer. Pretty good for the $$.

I actually thought the Rebel was a decent IPA. It's definitely not "OMGWTFBBQ!!1!!!1!1!one!!11!!! HOOOOPPPPSSSS!!!!!!" level of hopping, but the bitterness was on par with an IPA and there was a decent level of hops to it. In the ballpark of Stone IPA, not "Enjoy by IPA".

Guess I better try another. I heard it's a little hoppier on tap. Don't know if it's true. But the bottle I tried didn't make me think of Stone.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: erockrph on March 20, 2014, 03:04:46 PM
Guess I better try another. I heard it's a little hoppier on tap. Don't know if it's true. But the bottle I tried didn't make me think of Stone.

Maybe we get it in better condition up my way. Sammy gets a pretty quick turnaround in my area and it's pretty much cold the whole time.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 20, 2014, 03:31:45 PM
I didn't care much for the rebel IPA either. Thought it was a bit harsh in the bittering.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: micsager on March 20, 2014, 07:54:43 PM


Whitewater IPA...
Wheat ale brewed with apricots and spices


Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.

I've been drinking a lot of the Rebel as of late.  I like it.  But, you're certainly right that it's not the hoppiest beer around. 
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: blatz on March 20, 2014, 08:07:36 PM
Rebel is 45 ibus, 6.5% so that may explain the lower hop perception to a degree.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2014, 09:26:05 PM
Rebel is 45 ibus, 6.5% so that may explain the lower hop perception to a degree.

Yeah, that gives it a BU:GU of ~ .69  .  Pretty pale ale-ish. And I love APA - it's a great style.  Just thrown by the West Coast IPA sales pitch. Having said all that, it's not a bad tasting beer.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: euge on March 21, 2014, 02:30:33 AM
I drank one in Houston at the southwest terminal. They have the worst beer concessions there. :(
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 21, 2014, 01:19:44 PM
Rebel is 45 ibus, 6.5% so that may explain the lower hop perception to a degree.

Yeah, that gives it a BU:GU of ~ .69  .  Pretty pale ale-ish. And I love APA - it's a great style.  Just thrown by the West Coast IPA sales pitch. Having said all that, it's not a bad tasting beer.
I had the same debate over one of my beer I entered in competition. I brewed it as an IPA and it's numbers are similar. It's right in the middle of the IPA style for abv and IBU, but the bitterness was very gentle. It's also at the high end for pale ale, because there is overlap. I decided it would do better as a pale ale.
 
But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: reverseapachemaster on March 21, 2014, 01:55:52 PM
I drank one in Houston at the southwest terminal. They have the worst beer concessions there. :(

You can only say that because you didn't go through DFW.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: euge on March 21, 2014, 02:47:43 PM
OMG it's worse in DFW?!
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 21, 2014, 04:49:25 PM

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

WHAT??????
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 21, 2014, 05:24:39 PM

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

WHAT??????

That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 21, 2014, 05:25:49 PM

OMG it's worse in DFW?!

Dfw sucks but for one terminal. I am convinced that the airport purposely schedules all the layovers at that terminal so people think it is a nice airport.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 21, 2014, 05:47:19 PM
That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.

Did I misunderstand you?  I thought you were saying that west coast beers weren't hoppy.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 21, 2014, 06:03:23 PM
That was my thought, Denny. Now granted my sample size was restricted to California and not the PNW, but I took a trip out West a few years back and tried alot of the high profile beers out there - Alpine, Ballast Point, Stone, Bear Republic, Russian River, etc. - and found them to be among the hoppiest ( and best) I ever had.... by far. Bitterness on those IPAs was moderately high to melt your face. And I know not every brewery in the western states makes beers that way, but my impression was that a lot do. They're definitely not scared of hops at those breweries. Those are actually the IPAs I try to emulate today.

Did I misunderstand you?  I thought you were saying that west coast beers weren't hoppy.

I was saying that SA new Rebel IPA, which passes itself off as a 'West Coast IPA', isn't very hoppy at all, after actually trying West Coast beers that clearly are.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: The Professor on March 21, 2014, 06:29:05 PM
...Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.

Oh, I don't know...IPA has become a pretty loose term in general in the USA.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 21, 2014, 06:49:19 PM
I was saying that SA new Rebel IPA, which passes itself off as a 'West Coast IPA', isn't very hoppy at all, after actually trying West Coast beers that clearly are.

Got it now!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 21, 2014, 06:50:24 PM
...Yeah, 'IPA' is evidently getting to be a loose term to Jim Koch. Tried the new Rebel IPA last week. It was fresh - smelled and tasted like a Pale Ale at best.

Oh, I don't know...IPA has become a pretty loose term in general in the USA.

(http://www.sarahsbigidea.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/clapping.gif)
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: morticaixavier on March 21, 2014, 07:22:37 PM

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

WHAT??????

I see what he means. to me the best of the west coast IPAs (obviously a  personal judgement) are very very hoppy without being melt your face bitter. lots and lots of late hops with enough bittering hops to balance out any hint of malt sweetness and just leave a clean canvas for the hops to finger paint on
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 21, 2014, 07:30:56 PM

But like I said, restrained bitterness is my impression of west coast IPA too.

WHAT??????

I see what he means. to me the best of the west coast IPAs (obviously a  personal judgement) are very very hoppy without being melt your face bitter. lots and lots of late hops with enough bittering hops to balance out any hint of malt sweetness and just leave a clean canvas for the hops to finger paint on
And Mitch Steele did write the article on late hops with smooth bitterness.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 21, 2014, 07:40:49 PM
And I'm not a fan of melt your face bitterness in any beer, for that matter.  I love Mitch's book, and use a lot of his advice for making IPA. I just didn't think SA's new one is quite as advertised.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 21, 2014, 08:16:31 PM
And I'm not a fan of melt your face bitterness in any beer, for that matter.  I love Mitch's book, and use a lot of his advice for making IPA. I just didn't think SA's new one is quite as advertised.

I'm the opposite.  It's what I expect from a west coast IPA and I'm disappointed when I don't get it.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 21, 2014, 10:05:44 PM
And I'm not a fan of melt your face bitterness in any beer, for that matter.  I love Mitch's book, and use a lot of his advice for making IPA. I just didn't think SA's new one is quite as advertised.

I'm the opposite.  It's what I expect from a west coast IPA and I'm disappointed when I don't get it.

I like a good slap o' bitterness too, Denny, but not necessarily Palate Wrecker craziness, which is what I meant by 'face melting'  :)  . I bitter an average IPA at ~ 50 IBUs up front + late IBUs (however many). I like a BU:GU of 1 to 1.2 for AIPA, which (to me) equates to the great beers I had out west. Good stuff !
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: brewcrew7 on March 22, 2014, 02:23:45 AM
I was disappointed in Sierra Nevada's new 4-way IPA variety pack. I swear I've had Pale Ale that was hoppier, more bitter. Nooner IPA had no hops whatsoever; Centennial and Chinook nowhere to be found. It was bottled on Valentine's Day and I'm in the Midwest. SN is well-regarded but this has got to be a handling/packaging issue.   But SN, like Sam Adams, is getting big to the point where I could be swayed to believe their Torpedos are just as much a gimmick as is the Miller Lite vortex bottles! Surely I'm wrong...I want to be wrong!
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: klickitat jim on March 22, 2014, 05:12:36 AM
Well the mixer upper 12 pack had a kolsch ish beer that was extremely tasty. They should sell that solo all summer. There was an Irish red that was a bit bloody nose ish. And a couple ubiquitous Boston lagers. Overall it wasn't bad, but I'd rather have a 12 pack of that kolsch
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on March 26, 2014, 01:47:16 PM
Is it just me or do any of you guys think that all Sam Adams beers taste a lot like Boston Lager? I can't stand it anymore. I think Koch just adjusts hop additions and water concentrations to the BL recipe.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 26, 2014, 01:49:33 PM
I've never thought that. Though many breweries have a 'house character' that is probably a combination of house yeast and some habitual recipe choices.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on March 26, 2014, 01:53:19 PM
I've never thought that. Though many breweries have a 'house character' that is probably a combination of house yeast and some habitual recipe choices.

Maybe that's it. I can't even drink any SA without getting irritated. They have a lot of "different" beers that taste a lot the same to me. I just avoid it altogether now.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 26, 2014, 02:00:43 PM
I've never thought that. Though many breweries have a 'house character' that is probably a combination of house yeast and some habitual recipe choices.

Maybe that's it. I can't even drink any SA without getting irritated. They have a lot of "different" beers that taste a lot the same to me. I just avoid it altogether now.
It's probably true at least in part. A large brewery like that has contracts on malt, hops, and a house yeast. So it's far easier to use those for new recipes than get new maltsters. Sometimes they are sketchy about new yeast varieties due to contamination concerns. For instance, Ommegang uses one yeast for every beer they make. Any differences are from spicing.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 26, 2014, 02:18:28 PM

Sometimes they are sketchy about new yeast varieties due to contamination concerns. For instance, Ommegang uses one yeast for every beer they make. Any differences are from spicing.

Cost must be a consideration as well. I've heard that it takes quite a few batches to recoup the cost of commercial pitches of yeast. An all lager brewery I used to frequent would trade for pitches of ale yeast with an all ale brewery 20 minutes away.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: euge on March 26, 2014, 03:55:20 PM

Sometimes they are sketchy about new yeast varieties due to contamination concerns. For instance, Ommegang uses one yeast for every beer they make. Any differences are from spicing.

Cost must be a consideration as well. I've heard that it takes quite a few batches to recoup the cost of commercial pitches of yeast. An all lager brewery I used to frequent would trade for pitches of ale yeast with an all ale brewery 20 minutes away.

So the term "all" is used loosely by these folks? I'm not sure I understand the why of it.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 26, 2014, 04:17:23 PM
So the term "all" is used loosely by these folks? I'm not sure I understand the why of it.

Brewery A was a traditional German lager brewery (moving away from that recently) with a restaurant attached. Must have an IPA and Stout on tap at the restaurant so they brewed those infrequently on their smaller (14bbl?) system and "borrowed" yeast. Those beers were restaurant only with some keg sales. Brewery B brews ales primarily, with the occasional lager, dunkel or maibock. Win-win.

If a proper pitch of yeast without a started costs us about $15, imagine what it costs somebody with a 30bbl system.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: euge on March 26, 2014, 06:33:18 PM
Ahhhh. Brewery A forced to bend its principles at last... You know I can't see why both of those styles couldn't be emulated by using lager yeast. Yeah here is our IPA (hopfen-weisse) and our Dry Stout (ultra dark lager). But I see the point of the whole situation.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 26, 2014, 06:50:16 PM

Ahhhh. Brewery A forced to bend its principles at last... You know I can't see why both of those styles couldn't be emulated by using lager yeast. Yeah here is our IPA (hopfen-weisse) and our Dry Stout (ultra dark lager). But I see the point of the whole situation.

New and younger owners
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: blatz on March 26, 2014, 06:52:08 PM
If a proper pitch of yeast without a started costs us about $15, imagine what it costs somebody with a 30bbl system.

15bbl pitchable ~ $250.  i don't know about it taking several batches to recoup that cost, but its certainly expensive enough to make trading attractive, and repitching A LOT, a must.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: morticaixavier on March 26, 2014, 07:40:22 PM

Ahhhh. Brewery A forced to bend its principles at last... You know I can't see why both of those styles couldn't be emulated by using lager yeast. Yeah here is our IPA (hopfen-weisse) and our Dry Stout (ultra dark lager). But I see the point of the whole situation.

New and younger owners

who have begun to use their lager yeast (WLP German Lager yeast) for their ales as it happens.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 26, 2014, 10:15:52 PM
I've never thought that. Though many breweries have a 'house character' that is probably a combination of house yeast and some habitual recipe choices.

Maybe that's it. I can't even drink any SA without getting irritated. They have a lot of "different" beers that taste a lot the same to me. I just avoid it altogether now.
It's probably true at least in part. A large brewery like that has contracts on malt, hops, and a house yeast. So it's far easier to use those for new recipes than get new maltsters. Sometimes they are sketchy about new yeast varieties due to contamination concerns. For instance, Ommegang uses one yeast for every beer they make. Any differences are from spicing.
When you have silos full of a base NA 2row, and one crystal malt, you tend to build on those.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: micsager on March 26, 2014, 10:22:44 PM
So the term "all" is used loosely by these folks? I'm not sure I understand the why of it.

Brewery A was a traditional German lager brewery (moving away from that recently) with a restaurant attached. Must have an IPA and Stout on tap at the restaurant so they brewed those infrequently on their smaller (14bbl?) system and "borrowed" yeast. Those beers were restaurant only with some keg sales. Brewery B brews ales primarily, with the occasional lager, dunkel or maibock. Win-win.

If a proper pitch of yeast without a started costs us about $15, imagine what it costs somebody with a 30bbl system.

Are you really paying $7.50 a smack pack?  Wow, I guess it's good to live close to Portland. My LHBS's retail price is $5.50. 
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 26, 2014, 11:06:09 PM
Are you really paying $7.50 a smack pack?  Wow, I guess it's good to live close to Portland. My LHBS's retail price is $5.50.

Yep -- http://www.homebrewhq.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1378 -or- https://www.finevinewines.com/Z_ProdListMain.asp


Don't even get me started on Malt prices out here. All I will say is it would take a lot of sacks to pay for a grain mill.

Used to pay ~5.99 in Northern CA.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Jimmy K on March 26, 2014, 11:19:42 PM
So the term "all" is used loosely by these folks? I'm not sure I understand the why of it.

Brewery A was a traditional German lager brewery (moving away from that recently) with a restaurant attached. Must have an IPA and Stout on tap at the restaurant so they brewed those infrequently on their smaller (14bbl?) system and "borrowed" yeast. Those beers were restaurant only with some keg sales. Brewery B brews ales primarily, with the occasional lager, dunkel or maibock. Win-win.

If a proper pitch of yeast without a started costs us about $15, imagine what it costs somebody with a 30bbl system.

Are you really paying $7.50 a smack pack?  Wow, I guess it's good to live close to Portland. My LHBS's retail price is $5.50.
I pay $4 for dry yeasts.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: micsager on March 27, 2014, 02:59:49 PM
Are you really paying $7.50 a smack pack?  Wow, I guess it's good to live close to Portland. My LHBS's retail price is $5.50.

Yep -- http://www.homebrewhq.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1378 -or- https://www.finevinewines.com/Z_ProdListMain.asp


Don't even get me started on Malt prices out here. All I will say is it would take a lot of sacks to pay for a grain mill.

Used to pay ~5.99 in Northern CA.

That's brutal.

http://www.olybrew.com/
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Stevie on March 27, 2014, 03:29:11 PM
I pay $4 for dry yeasts.
Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

I have started moving away from 001/1056 in favor of US-05. No starter and cheaper.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 27, 2014, 03:34:24 PM
I pay $4 for dry yeasts.
Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

I have started moving away from 001/1056 in favor of US-05. No starter and cheaper.

I save my slurries and reuse them for as long as possible.  By the fourth or fifth batch, it's getting close the $1 per batch.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: denny on March 27, 2014, 04:14:55 PM
I pay $4 for dry yeasts.
Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

I have started moving away from 001/1056 in favor of US-05. No starter and cheaper.

IMO and testing, 05 doesn't give me as clean a beer as 1056.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: blatz on March 27, 2014, 04:31:06 PM
I pay $4 for dry yeasts.
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I have started moving away from 001/1056 in favor of US-05. No starter and cheaper.

I save my slurries and reuse them for as long as possible.  By the fourth or fifth batch, it's getting close the $1 per batch.

But with us-05 it becomes $0.25 per batch  :o
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: tschmidlin on March 27, 2014, 05:26:34 PM
So the term "all" is used loosely by these folks? I'm not sure I understand the why of it.

Brewery A was a traditional German lager brewery (moving away from that recently) with a restaurant attached. Must have an IPA and Stout on tap at the restaurant so they brewed those infrequently on their smaller (14bbl?) system and "borrowed" yeast. Those beers were restaurant only with some keg sales. Brewery B brews ales primarily, with the occasional lager, dunkel or maibock. Win-win.

If a proper pitch of yeast without a started costs us about $15, imagine what it costs somebody with a 30bbl system.

Are you really paying $7.50 a smack pack?  Wow, I guess it's good to live close to Portland. My LHBS's retail price is $5.50. 
It's got nothing to do with distance to Wyeast Mic, we typically pay $7.50 on this side of the sound.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: micsager on March 27, 2014, 08:47:37 PM
Well, then I guess it's good live in the boonies!   :) :)

Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: klickitat jim on March 27, 2014, 09:14:52 PM
I think I pay $7 and my LHBS is about 25 miles from the plant.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 27, 2014, 09:24:36 PM
I pay ~ $7, too IIRC.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: ranchovillabrew on March 28, 2014, 04:38:01 AM
I was at White labs yesterday.  They charge more at the lab than at the lhbs

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Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: tschmidlin on March 28, 2014, 05:35:15 AM
I was at White labs yesterday.  They charge more at the lab than at the lhbs
That is probably intentional.  They don't want to run a homebrew shop or a yeast store and don't want to compete with your lhbs, they want to sell a bunch of vials at once to the lhbs who will sell it to you.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: klickitat jim on March 28, 2014, 07:55:48 AM
May also be contractual. I'm not buying 1,000 from you to turn around and have to compete with you.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: ranchovillabrew on March 28, 2014, 02:04:32 PM
That's what I figured it was too. I was able to turn in used vials for free yeast though. 10 used vials for 1 new.

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Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 28, 2014, 02:18:33 PM
That's what I figured it was too. I was able to turn in used vials for free yeast though. 10 used vials for 1 new.

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Now that is being green.  I thought I had been saving mine for that yeast ranching project I never seem to get around to, but this is good news!  And it makes it 10% cheaper (almost).
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on March 28, 2014, 02:42:28 PM
That's what I figured it was too. I was able to turn in used vials for free yeast though. 10 used vials for 1 new.

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Now that is being green.  I thought I had been saving mine for that yeast ranching project I never seem to get around to, but this is good news!  And it makes it 10% cheaper (almost).

You can get other free gifts as well. I'm up around 30 saved. I think I'll just get three coupons when I get around to sending them in.

http://www.whitelabs.com/customerclub (http://www.whitelabs.com/customerclub)
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: wsoublo on March 31, 2014, 12:43:49 AM
10 vials for a free coupon is a pretty sweet deal. 

I couldn't imagine trading in 80 vials for a sweatshirt when you could get 8 free yeast vials.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on March 31, 2014, 01:19:44 AM
10 vials for a free coupon is a pretty sweet deal. 

I couldn't imagine trading in 80 vials for a sweatshirt when you could get 8 free yeast vials.

Yeah, I can't imagine that being a $56 sweatshirt
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: blatz on March 31, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
its best if you can aggregate with other brewers in the area - shipping the vials can be expensive.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: erockrph on March 31, 2014, 03:15:54 PM
Getting back to the "house flavor" comments, I get that from quite a few breweries. A lot of times that is a yeast thing, but it could definitely be coming from base malt as well.

Unless it's horrible, I generally enjoy it when a brewery has a house character. It kind of ties their line together and gives you some familiarity with their brews. Its also nice as a homebrewer because you can replicate that character in your own brews. For example, I didn't realize that Harpoon uses WLP005, but the first time I brewed with it that character was clear as day.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on April 01, 2014, 09:57:18 AM
its best if you can aggregate with other brewers in the area - shipping the vials can be expensive.

You just need to send the labels.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: blatz on April 01, 2014, 01:20:42 PM
its best if you can aggregate with other brewers in the area - shipping the vials can be expensive.

You just need to send the labels.

are you serious?  thanks!  i just wish I hadn't recycled about 20 of them last year  :'(
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: erockrph on April 01, 2014, 01:44:04 PM
its best if you can aggregate with other brewers in the area - shipping the vials can be expensive.

You just need to send the labels.

Good to know. I keep the vials for hydro samples and bringing salad dressing to work.
Title: Re: Dissent with Style
Post by: fmader on April 01, 2014, 02:38:16 PM
its best if you can aggregate with other brewers in the area - shipping the vials can be expensive.

You just need to send the labels.

are you serious?  thanks!  i just wish I hadn't recycled about 20 of them last year  :'(

This is from the form...

"To redeem your empty vials, please complete the form and return to us with the labels -
(remove the labels from the vials to save on shipping cost). You must include $5.00 for
shipping and handling for each item other than yeast coupons."

I probably threw away my first 10-15 before I knew about this promotion. That was also before I harvested yeast and was going through them more frequently.