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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: enso on April 04, 2010, 07:22:39 PM

Title: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 04, 2010, 07:22:39 PM
I am racking a Belgian IPA to keg today.  I used tons of homegrown cascade hops to brew it.  I was planning on dry hopping with cascade as well, only with pellets.  Well, I forgot to get some.  I have only dry hopped with homegrown hops once.  It was a barley wine.  It tasted excellent before I dry hopped it.  It later developed some oxidation, a salty kind of character.  Now whether that was from the hops or it had been there all along and just became more noticeable later I don't know.

I had another experience using homegrown ingredients added post ferment that went awry as well.  I added some dry heather to a heather ale to "dry herb" it.  I ended up with an unitinentional sour ale.

Am I just being paranoid about adding homegrown ingredients post ferment or do others also not add anything if it won't be boiled?
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 04, 2010, 07:26:03 PM
All I can tell ya is that I've dry hopped dozens of batches with homegrown hops and never had a problem from it.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 04, 2010, 07:42:26 PM
My experience is like Denny's.  Actually my homegrown hops give a good aroma.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: dhacker on April 04, 2010, 07:51:42 PM
Agree with Denny and Jeff . . The only thing that I can think of that would cause the issue you are talking is the way the HG hops were handled . . either picked too early or not dried sufficiently.

If you are still worried, you can still order some Cascades and dry hop when they arrive. Shouldn't matter if there's a couple of days delay.   
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 04, 2010, 08:18:43 PM
Well, getting some pellets is no problem.  I can go the homebrew shop this week.  I guess I would kind of like to use the homegrown but jut needed some reassurance.

I am partly suspect because of how I have them stored.  They are completely and totally dried.  I am not worried about that.  I have an oast setup.  No heat, just air.  However once they are mostly dry in there I transfer them to a large food dehydrator and finish the job at about 95F.

I have not found a great way to store yet.  I have been using those reynolds and or ziplock vaccuum bags.  They are pretty hit or miss as many can attest.  They slowly leak (sometimes quickly) and let air in.  I store them in the freezer.  Generally I suck the air out of the main bag and then put them into another bag and squeeze as much air out of that.

So, I guess I am concerned about oxidation from that or other possible contaminants.  Part of me sees this is ridiculous though, as the commercial hops I buy are likely subjected to just as much mistreatment.  I guess it is just those two circumstances that have me bothered.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 05, 2010, 03:37:08 PM
Part of me sees this is ridiculous though, as the commercial hops I buy are likely subjected to just as much mistreatment. 

Having seen how hops are handled from the farm through the packing, I daresay that yours probably receive a lot more care!  I think you'd be surprised to see one of those operations in action.

As to storage, get yourself a vacuum sealer.  I bought  on for the hops, but it's amazing how often I use it for other stuff, too.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 06, 2010, 12:32:40 AM
Part of me sees this is ridiculous though, as the commercial hops I buy are likely subjected to just as much mistreatment. 

Having seen how hops are handled from the farm through the packing, I daresay that yours probably receive a lot more care!  I think you'd be surprised to see one of those operations in action.

As to storage, get yourself a vacuum sealer.  I bought  on for the hops, but it's amazing how often I use it for other stuff, too.

I would like to get a vacuum sealer.  I just have not found one that a majority of people say is worthwhile.  They all seem to have their issues.  Even the ones that are a couple hundred bucks!
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 06, 2010, 04:14:26 PM
I would like to get a vacuum sealer.  I just have not found one that a majority of people say is worthwhile.  They all seem to have their issues.  Even the ones that are a couple hundred bucks!

I bought a bottom of the line Foodsaver for about $50 on sale.  I've been using it at least 5 years and have no complaints.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: bluesman on April 06, 2010, 05:02:01 PM
I would like to get a vacuum sealer.  I just have not found one that a majority of people say is worthwhile.  They all seem to have their issues.  Even the ones that are a couple hundred bucks!

I bought a bottom of the line Foodsaver for about $50 on sale.  I've been using it at least 5 years and have no complaints.

+1

Vacuum sealing is a great way to go with hops. I also have a Foodsaver. It's easy to use and helps prevent oxidation as well as keeps the hops fresher longer. I vacuum seal and freeze all of my hops.

I think you should be OK with using homegrown hops as long as they were properly dried and stored.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: pinnah on April 06, 2010, 07:35:19 PM
+2 on the foodsaver....mine is sticky and yellow ;)

I don't think there is cause to worry about contamination
via homegrown dryhop post fermentation.

Just use hops that smell really pungent, and not just any old homegrown.
eg, I have some Goldings that never develop any aroma...I never use them.
 
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 07, 2010, 10:04:02 PM
Alright I did it.  Put 20 g in a hop sack in the keg.  If it goes foul I blame it on all of you!!

 :-*


 ;D
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: 1vertical on April 08, 2010, 10:27:44 PM
I just saw this thread. Since I keg my beer, I dry hopped for the first time a little while back.
I took a different approach, I put the dry hop ball and hops in a sanatized keg with a lil distilled water
enough to cover the hop ball.....Then since the beer is a delicate pilsner and I don't want any O2 or light
problems, I carbonated the water/hop keg with CO2  after that got carbed, I then transferred keg to keg
the beer into the water+hop Keg.  I have tasted one sample pull from this keg, and it seems nice so far.
It is still lagering for a couple more weeks.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: mnstorm99 on April 09, 2010, 11:28:23 AM
I just want to pile on...Foodsaver is the best investment I have ever made in my brewhouse/kitchen.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: dhacker on April 09, 2010, 11:52:06 AM
Foodsaver users . . how do you vacuum seal your hops in terms of quantity? bulk or batch size . . or some of both?

Since I don't own a vacuum sealer, but am entertaining the idea, I assume once you open a sealed bag and use only a portion, you can reseal and purge the same bag again?
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 09, 2010, 12:46:17 PM
So what is the model name/number of the foodsaver you folks would recommend?
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 09, 2010, 02:12:06 PM
Foodsaver users . . how do you vacuum seal your hops in terms of quantity? bulk or batch size . . or some of both?

Since I don't own a vacuum sealer, but am entertaining the idea, I assume once you open a sealed bag and use only a portion, you can reseal and purge the same bag again?

I usually pack them in bulk since I'm lazy.  I leave enough extra bag so that I can reseal them easily.  If I'm not being lazy, I'll just do a few oz. per bag.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: babalu87 on April 09, 2010, 02:15:21 PM
Foodsaver users . . how do you vacuum seal your hops in terms of quantity? bulk or batch size . . or some of both?

Since I don't own a vacuum sealer, but am entertaining the idea, I assume once you open a sealed bag and use only a portion, you can reseal and purge the same bag again?

Yes

I add as much as the bag will hold and just re-seal every time.
You lose around 3/4-1" of bag every time you cut it open so just make the bag a few inches bigger.

A pound of hops gets very small when vacu-sealed
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 12, 2010, 08:50:16 PM
I ended up yanking the hops from the keg after about 3-4 days.  It was getting wicked grassy.  My friends thought it was great early in the evening at a competition the other night.  Later in the night one of the same friends not knowing which beer he was drinking said "it tastes like seafood"!

 :'(

 ;D

Ah well.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: dean on April 14, 2010, 02:22:41 PM
  It tasted excellent before I dry hopped it.  It later developed some oxidation, a salty kind of character.  Now whether that was from the hops or it had been there all along and just became more noticeable later I don't know.


Thats interesting, I've had a couple of batches lately that tasted a little salty, I used some HG hops I bought from someone about a year or so ago... hydroponically grown hops... maybe I need to do a split batch.  I blamed everything, even Oxiclean... I still don't know for sure what it was.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 14, 2010, 02:27:45 PM
I've been dry hopping with homegrown hops for nearly 10 years and never experienced "salty" from it.  I'm at a loss to think of any way that could even happen.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 14, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
The salty flavor I experienced was not directly the hops per se.  It was a function of oxidation (which may or may not have been introduced from the introduction of the hops), or possibly some autolysis.

Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: denny on April 14, 2010, 05:15:51 PM
Boy, I've never heard of either of those things causing "saltiness".  Weird, man.
Title: Re: Leery of dry hopping with homegrown
Post by: enso on April 15, 2010, 12:23:16 PM
 :-[

Sorry, let me rephrase that.  I believe it is from oxidation or autolysis.  I actually never really figured it out for certain.  I have read that oxidation can give a salty flavor and that autolysis can give a meaty or soy (umami) like flavor.  Like I said, not sure if it was the hops.  Not really sure of anything.   ???  Just talkin' out me arse...

I do though now really taste that seafood flavor my friend mentioned.  I can't get it out of my head.  It is not grass anymore it is definitely like shrimp or something.   :(