West TN well water . . 220 ft. deep in the McNairy-Nacatoch aquifer. Almost 500 ft. thick where I live.
It's a clean slate for me! ;D Can you say Bo-pils?? :D
You are a lucky man. I have to buy RO water to have water like that.
Cary, IL - deep well in Fox River valley aquifer NW of Chicago (either that or an old limestone salt storage cavern)
Speaking of RO, has anyone had the water from those grocery store machines tested? I'm just wondering how good a job they do.
How can I get my water tested? How much should it cost?
How can I get my water tested? How much should it cost?
http://www.wardlab.com/
Click on "Fee Schedule" on the left and look at the pdf fee schedule document. You're looking for test W-6 on page 8. $16.95.
...the water in many parts of Germany is hard. There is are several hot springs in Weisbaden that you can drink from. One had its mineral content listed, and the Na and Cl levels were very high, both around 2000 ppm if I remember correctly. The Strontium level was high enough that there was a warning to drink no more than 1 liter per day!All the more reason to stick to the beer in Germany...yikes...
The RO water I buy is from Culligan machines at Meijer's in Wixom. These tested at <1 ppm for all the minerals. Feedwater is Detroit City water. RO takes out about 98% of the minerals, so 2-3 ppm would be reasonable for a reading. Gordon must have hard source water and a machine at Kroger that needs to be serviced.
If you go to the 3rd post in the thread, you will find that I posted store bought RO water and my tap water. Everything was <1 for the store bought RO. The feed water for the RO is the same as Gail's later in the thread.
Minneapolis (Northeast), MN (as of 8/12/08):
pH 8.9
Sodium, Na 11
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 20
Magnesium, Mg 3
Total Hardness, CaCO3 63
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 10
Chloride, Cl 25
Carbonate, CO3 4
Bicarbonate, HCO3 19
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 21
~$26 for a complete test.
Minneapolis (Northeast), MN (as of 8/12/08):
pH 8.9
Sodium, Na 11
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 20
Magnesium, Mg 3
Total Hardness, CaCO3 63
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 10
Chloride, Cl 25
Carbonate, CO3 4
Bicarbonate, HCO3 19
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 21
Hey, how did you get this info? Or, for updated info, who do I call? I am just starting to think about playing with my water chemistry, but with my carbon filter my water (and beer) is greatly improved already.
AJ deLange has a post on the Brewing Network forum about something he just found out about the Ward Labs report (if you don't know who he is, let me just say that when he writes about water chemistry I read it and hope I understand what he has to say). If you look at the reports, SO4 is listed as SO4-S, which means the number reported is the sulfur. AJ says to multiply by 3 to get the Sulfate as ppm.
You can read it here.
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21815
Hey Denny - Thanks for posting your water analysis. Mine is almost identical, from my home well in western Washington, a few points more magnesium and slightly less chloride. Do you commonly do water additions or adjust pH, or can you do OK without the bother? I am about to do my first AG, and was going to try without additions the first time. You might save me a bad first batch if I really have to do some fiddling. Thanks for your time.
BTW - I grew up in your neck of the woods - Cottage Grove. I have family on Cook Road and Sheffler Road, which are even closer to you. I followed work north, but visit the old stomping grounds often.
Bruce
Maybe some of the water experts who post here can give more wisdom.
pH....................................................................7.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est .....................................245
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm ....................................0.41
Cations / Anions, me/L .........................................4.0 / 3.8
ppm
Sodium, Na ............................................................21
Potassium, K ...........................................................1
Calcium, Ca ...........................................................44
Magnesium, Mg .........................................................11
Total Hardness,CaCO3 ................................................ 156
Nitrate, NO3-N ............................................... 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S .........................................................7
Chloride, Cl ..........................................................41
Carbonate, CO3 ...................................................... <1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 ....................................................132
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 ..............................................108
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
AJ deLange has a post on the Brewing Network forum about something he just found out about the Ward Labs report (if you don't know who he is, let me just say that when he writes about water chemistry I read it and hope I understand what he has to say). If you look at the reports, SO4 is listed as SO4-S, which means the number reported is the sulfur. AJ says to multiply by 3 to get the Sulfate as ppm.
AJ deLange has a post on the Brewing Network forum about something he just found out about the Ward Labs report (if you don't know who he is, let me just say that when he writes about water chemistry I read it and hope I understand what he has to say). If you look at the reports, SO4 is listed as SO4-S, which means the number reported is the sulfur. AJ says to multiply by 3 to get the Sulfate as ppm.
Can someone explain why the multiplyer is three?
So then parts per million is a measure of weight and not actual particles? Don't know why this confuses me - it just doesn't seem logical. I'm thinking sulfate is 1 sulfer surrounded by 4 oxygen so if I have so if I have 5 sulfate particles then I have 5 sulfers and 20 oxygens.Correct, it is typically parts of mass. If it is 20 ppm, then it is 20 g per 1000 kg, or 20 mg per kg, or 20 ug per g, etc. And since 1 liter of water weighs 1 kg (ish) it can sometimes be referred to as weight/volume.
In that case assuming all sulfer is part of sulfate the parts per million of sulfer is the same.... I guess it doesn't work like that though?
As micsager expected, the water is fairly hard and alkaline. The RA comes out at about 90 which should be good for Amber to Brown beers with little adjustment. He would probably need to cut the alkalinity with minor acid additions to brew a crisp pale colored beer. I calculate that he would need about 0.4 to 0.5 mL of 88% lactic acid per gallon of mash water for the pale beers. He still can use a little more alkalinity to brew black beers, but might be able to get by.Thanks for catching that. I just retyped, did not cut and paste. The Wardlabs report does say unsafe for the nitrates. No newborns for the last 16 years, and never at this house.
The sparge water will need about 0.6 mL of 88% lactic acid per gallon of sparge water to bring the pH down under 6.0.
I notice that Ward Labs calls the 7.1 Nitrate concentration "safe". The maximum level that EPA allows for nitrate is 10 mg/L, but that is for nitrate reported "as nitrate" and Ward reports "as nitrogen". That means that the actual nitrate level for this water is about 31 mg/L, which is getting up there. This water is OK for adults to drink, but not newborns. Just be aware of that.
Thanks for catching that. I just retyped, did not cut and paste. The Wardlabs report does say unsafe for the nitrates. No newborns for the last 16 years, and never at this house.Now I know why your neighbor got that new water system installed. I think I'd be tempted to pipe some water over from your neighbors for brew day Mic, and leave the tap water for the dishes, toilet, and shower. On the other hand, your hops and other plants should be happy getting that water. :)
Thanks for catching that. I just retyped, did not cut and paste. The Wardlabs report does say unsafe for the nitrates. No newborns for the last 16 years, and never at this house.Now I know why your neighbor got that new water system installed. I think I'd be tempted to pipe some water over from your neighbors for brew day Mic, and leave the tap water for the dishes, toilet, and shower. On the other hand, your hops and other plants should be happy getting that water. :)
Just got a new report:
Sterling, VA - November 2010
pH 7.8
Na 27
K 4
Ca 25
Mg 8
Total Hardness, CaCO3 96
SO4-S 8
Cl 37
Bicarbonate, HCO3 77
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 63
There are definitely some variations from the report I got a year ago. This indicates softer water with less calcium, way less sulfates and more chloride than the previous report. I ordered a bunch of test supplies from Ward this time around and I'm going to submit one sample a quarter and track the changes to my water.
The city uses chloramine to treat the water, so I'm a bit hesitant to use it at all, though I do now have a faucet filter.
I read somewhere (possibly Snyder's Brewmaster's Bible?) that campden tablets were best avoided. Possibly this had to do with sensitivities to sulfites? Honestly, I'm not fond of my local water anyway, so I'll probably stick with purchased "drinking water" for brewing until I move to an area with better water or move to a house where I can install an RO unit.The city uses chloramine to treat the water, so I'm a bit hesitant to use it at all, though I do now have a faucet filter.Use one campden tablet per 20 gallons of water (less water is fine) to remove the chloramines.
I read somewhere (possibly Snyder's Brewmaster's Bible?) that campden tablets were best avoided. Possibly this had to do with sensitivities to sulfites? Honestly, I'm not fond of my local water anyway, so I'll probably stick with purchased "drinking water" for brewing until I move to an area with better water or move to a house where I can install an RO unit.The city uses chloramine to treat the water, so I'm a bit hesitant to use it at all, though I do now have a faucet filter.Use one campden tablet per 20 gallons of water (less water is fine) to remove the chloramines.
I read somewhere (possibly Snyder's Brewmaster's Bible?) that campden tablets were best avoided. Possibly this had to do with sensitivities to sulfites? Honestly, I'm not fond of my local water anyway, so I'll probably stick with purchased "drinking water" for brewing until I move to an area with better water or move to a house where I can install an RO unit.The city uses chloramine to treat the water, so I'm a bit hesitant to use it at all, though I do now have a faucet filter.Use one campden tablet per 20 gallons of water (less water is fine) to remove the chloramines.
Don't worry about Campden, the sulphur stuff gets driven off during the boil. For ciders and such, where Campden is used to halt fermentation (obviously post boil), then it could be an issue.
IIRC campden will not remove chloramines just chlorine. I think your only option with chloramines is boiling adn waiting or a charcoal or RO filter system. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.You are correct. And by that I mean the part where you say you could be wrong :)
any advice on the profile would be greatly appreciated:
I'm intending to use Arrowhead drinking water (without fluoride) since the spring water looks like its values are all over the place. Is this a good choice?
The CaCO3 number looks like a typo.
I copy/pasted straight from the PDF they emailed me.
The CaCO3 number looks like a typo.
I copy/pasted straight from the PDF they emailed me.
Woops, I cut off the last zero. I updated the number.
Good eyes!
Iron and Manganese levels are high. We get rust stains pretty quick even with our current whole house filter. Tap water tastes pretty good too.
Thanks in advance.
Westview Water Authority, which pulls it from the Ohio River a few miles downstream from Pittsburgh. Westview will switch over to chloramine April 30. Analysis shown is from March 14.
pH 8.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) 117
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 236
Sodium, Na 18
Calcium, Ca 52
Magnesium, Mg 22
Total Hardness, CaCO3 74
Nitrate, NO3-N 1
Sulfate, SO4-S 39
Chloride, Cl 50
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 30
Total Iron, Fe 0.016
Free Chlorine, Cl2 1.5
Pittsburgh Trout, 0
Good catch. However I used Denny's report as a template, which shows "SO4-S". Mine was reported as SO4.
i live in round rock, texas and have been uable to find a water report that lists the appropriate info. what are some keywords i should use when googling. ive asked a local brewer and some club members and no one knows. thanks.
Yep, Ward labs. Very convenient, order ther Brewer's Analysis. $26.00
I think the $26 is W5, the $16.50 is W6. If you want to know your iron content, get W5.Yep, Ward labs. Very convenient, order ther Brewer's Analysis. $26.00
Hmm, so did Ward Labs jack up their prices for homebrewers? Their W-6 test is still listed on their standard pricing list as $16.50, which is what I've paid in the past. In the homebrewers section it's listed at $26.
I assume you can still just send it in your own container and pay the lower price, either $16.50 for W-6 or $26.50 for W-5.
Suffolk VA - well water, in the western part of the county near Isle of Wight:I am no expert on water, but that looks like it went through a water softener. High Sodium and very low Ca, Mg and Cl. The alkalinity is high. The RA would be very high on this. You would need to add Ca for all grain beers, and get rid of the alkalinity for light colored beers.
pH 8.3
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 315
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.52
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.0 / 6.2 ppm
Sodium, Na 136
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca < 1
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 < 1
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl 4
Carbonate, CO3 12
Bicarbonate, HCO3 345
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 303
My RA is rather high. Along with the sodium. I go half and hald distilled and add a combination of chalk, calcium chloride and gypsum until i get the RA where I want it for light beers as well as getting the sulfate to chloride ratio where it needs to be for the beer I am brewing (malty vs. hoppy). Also hit it with some lactic acid as well if needs be. Not the greatest water, but it can make some good dark beers with minimal adjustment :)Your local aquifer must have a layer of baking soda to give that much sodium and bicarbonate.
Also, no softener. Just well water through a big blue charcoal filter in the corner lol.
My RA is rather high. Along with the sodium. I go half and hald distilled and add a combination of chalk, calcium chloride and gypsum until i get the RA where I want it for light beers as well as getting the sulfate to chloride ratio where it needs to be for the beer I am brewing (malty vs. hoppy). Also hit it with some lactic acid as well if needs be. Not the greatest water, but it can make some good dark beers with minimal adjustment :)Your local aquifer must have a layer of baking soda to give that much sodium and bicarbonate.
Also, no softener. Just well water through a big blue charcoal filter in the corner lol.
i live in round rock, texas and have been uable to find a water report that lists the appropriate info. what are some keywords i should use when googling. ive asked a local brewer and some club members and no one knows. thanks.
i live in round rock, texas and have been uable to find a water report that lists the appropriate info. what are some keywords i should use when googling. ive asked a local brewer and some club members and no one knows. thanks.
Did you post to the Texas Carboys or Austin Zealots? I've posted info out to the Zealots Yahoo group a few times.
You should receive the annual drinking water quality report by July 1, the City hasn't posted online as of yet -- the one available at http://dww.tceq.texas.gov/CCR/ (search for "City of Round Rock" or TX2460003) does not include the secondaries that you would want for sulfate/hardness/calcium etc. pH usually ranges from 7.3 - 7.6, raw water alkalinity is ~155.
Chloramine levels depend on how far you live from the water treatment/pump stations, but be aware that with historical levels in distribution minimum of 2.15 mg/L (measured as total chlorine) and levels above 3 mg/L out of the treatment plant that you need to dechloraminate. Carbon filtration may not remove all if you don't have sufficient contact time to hit a removal efficiency that you need.
Assuming that Kim Lutz is still handling the water quality data for Round Rock, you can call her at (512) 341-3333 or email kiml@round-rock.tx.us for more recent data.
You can also get your water tested by LCRA Environmental Services in southeast Austin, they have a residential water supply testing services https://els.lcra.org/RWST.aspx.
i live in round rock, texas and have been uable to find a water report that lists the appropriate info. what are some keywords i should use when googling. ive asked a local brewer and some club members and no one knows. thanks.
Did you post to the Texas Carboys or Austin Zealots? I've posted info out to the Zealots Yahoo group a few times.
You should receive the annual drinking water quality report by July 1, the City hasn't posted online as of yet -- the one available at http://dww.tceq.texas.gov/CCR/ (search for "City of Round Rock" or TX2460003) does not include the secondaries that you would want for sulfate/hardness/calcium etc. pH usually ranges from 7.3 - 7.6, raw water alkalinity is ~155.
Chloramine levels depend on how far you live from the water treatment/pump stations, but be aware that with historical levels in distribution minimum of 2.15 mg/L (measured as total chlorine) and levels above 3 mg/L out of the treatment plant that you need to dechloraminate. Carbon filtration may not remove all if you don't have sufficient contact time to hit a removal efficiency that you need.
Assuming that Kim Lutz is still handling the water quality data for Round Rock, you can call her at (512) 341-3333 or email kiml@round-rock.tx.us for more recent data.
You can also get your water tested by LCRA Environmental Services in southeast Austin, they have a residential water supply testing services https://els.lcra.org/RWST.aspx.
just saw this, thanks for all the great info.
This is my report from Prince William County, VA. I'm looking to switch to all grain soon, and was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. The report shows tests conducted over a year period, I'm listing the average values. Thanks!
pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 188
Electrical Conductivity, umho/cm 354
ppm
Sodium, Na 32.9
Potassium, K 4.3
Calcium, Ca 22.6
Magnesium, Mg 5.5
Total Hardness, CaCO3 78
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.2
Sulfate, SO4-S 25.3
Chloride, Cl 49.8
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 54
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 54
Total Phosphorus, P 0.33
Total Iron, Fe BQL
This is my report from Prince William County, VA. I'm looking to switch to all grain soon, and was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. The report shows tests conducted over a year period, I'm listing the average values. Thanks!
pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 188
Electrical Conductivity, umho/cm 354
ppm
Sodium, Na 32.9
Potassium, K 4.3
Calcium, Ca 22.6
Magnesium, Mg 5.5
Total Hardness, CaCO3 78
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.2
Sulfate, SO4-S 25.3
Chloride, Cl 49.8
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 54
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 54
Total Phosphorus, P 0.33
Total Iron, Fe BQL
I'll preface this by saying, I am by far no water specialist and am just getting into understanding water. It looks like you have some really workable water. I'm the post before yours and spent some time reading through previous posts and other online water research as well as looking at other reports. (Again, not an expert, just believe I learned something) You should be able to make ALMOST any water you want with salt and acid additions that you want. You can probably dilute that water add the salts that are lacking and get close to Pilsen water. If you haven't already, download Bru'n water, read through it, pick a style you want to brew and start building the water profile for it. I found it, in addition to other research, to be a great way to start understanding water manipulation.
I've noticed that some of my lightly hopped beers (20-40 IBU) a slight harshness to the bitterness. I use straight tap water (no treatment at all) and just do 60 min boils for all my bittering additions. Based on the water report, is it likely to be from the water or something in my brewing procedure? Are there any water adjustments I should be making to most of my brews? I know these questions are recipe dependent, but some general guidelines would be fabulous. Thanks for any help.
I have not. If the mash pH is too high, would it be enough for me to drop it with some citric acid (which I have lying around for other purposes)? Or would something like a pH stabilizer that I've seen at the homebrew store be better?
Based on my own experience and what I've read from many others, the pH stabilizer is ineffective and add a strange taste to your beer due to the amount of sodium in it. I don't think citirc acid would be effective because you;d have to add so much it might affect the flavor. I use either lactic or phosphoric acid to lower pH. You can also use sauermalt (Yeah, I probably dickchimped the spelling) to lower pH. But you'll have to have a way of measuring pH to know how much to use and if it's effective.
Get a sample of the water bypassed from the softener to see what is the base water from the well. That way you will see what the calcium and magnesium are, I am not smart enough to estimate from the softened water. That is a job for a waterHe goes by "Aquaman".super heroprofessional like Martin. ;)
Kevin Costner played his role on the screen.Get a sample of the water bypassed from the softener to see what is the base water from the well. That way you will see what the calcium and magnesium are, I am not smart enough to estimate from the softened water. That is a job for a waterHe goes by "Aquaman".super heroprofessional like Martin. ;)
Thanks for the replies. The sample submitted was out of the kitchen faucet, and that is the water that goes through the softener, so it may be that the sodium level is being increased quite significantly from that. I may submit a sample with pure well water from the outside tap.
The well is hardrock (granite) drilled at about 240 foot depth. The well was drilled in 1974.
We have talked about getting an RO system, but the majority of them are so inefficient. I did find that Costco carries a 'no-waste' RO system, but I haven't looked into it all that much. Any recommendations on RO systems?
Alright. I am getting ready to brew my first batch (beyond excited ;D). I am brewing an irish red (came with the kit) and it is extract. I am trying to cover all my bases and have been trying to understand the water profile in my area but....I cannot even begin to understand some of the water discussion happening on the forum. Here is my water report from my area. Anything with a 0 was not listed on the report. Any suggestions or thoughts? Thanks for your help.
pH= 8.02
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) mg/L= 79
Sodium, Na =3.0
Potassium, K =0.8
Calcium, Ca =17.1
Magnesium, Mg= 1.8
Total Hardness, CaCO3 mg/L= 52.0
Nitrate, NO3-N =0
Sulfate, SO4-S= 0
Chloride, Cl =0
Carbonate, CO3 = 0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 = 0
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 = 36.4
pH= 8.02
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) mg/L= 79
Sodium, Na =3.0
Potassium, K =0.8
Calcium, Ca =17.1
Magnesium, Mg= 1.8
Total Hardness, CaCO3 mg/L= 52.0
Nitrate, NO3-N =0
Sulfate, SO4-S= 0
Chloride, Cl =0
Carbonate, CO3 = 0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 = 0
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 = 36.4
The rest of your minerals are really low, so I would try a batch or two with your water as is, with a bit of CaCl or gypsum to raise the calcium over 50ppm. I don't see alkalinity on your report, but with hardness as low as it is it's probably not bad.
My water report is copied below. If I plug this into BrunWater, and plug in 66 for my alkalinity, I get 80 ppm Bicarbonate and a 1.01 ion ratio. I will eventually send a sample from my kitchen sink to a lab for analysis, but I'm wondering if this will suffice for the time being. Brewing my first all-grain porter tomorrow, so I'd like to be in the right ballpark.
Well depth of 340 ft in Glocester, RI
Turbidity - 21
Color - 15
Odor - ND
pH - 7.8
Calcium - 18.6
Magnesium - 0.7
Hardness - 49.4
Nitrate Nitrogen - ND
Nitrite Nitrogen - ND
Sulfate - ND
Sodium - 10.6
Chloride - 6.6
Copper - ND
Iron - 0.75
Manganese - 0.07
Turbidity - 21 ?
Yikes!
PS: That is some crappy tap water!When I would go out to Mesa AZ for work, you would remember quickly why no one was really drinking the tap water. Salt river indeed.
That report for the RO system profile is not good. If it's your system, it needs the membrane replaced. A properly operating RO membrane will remove at least 94% of the sodium and chloride. The TDS value should be under 25 ppm. If this was from a retail RO vending system, having a portable TDS meter can help you avoid wasting your money by buying water from a malfunctioning machine.
PS: That is some crappy tap water!
Chambersburg, PA
Unfortunately, I feel like this isn't what I need, but it was all I could find online.
Chambersburg, PACall them and see if they have the brewing ions you want. Be nice, and offer a 6 pack as a good will gesture.
Unfortunately, I feel like this isn't what I need, but it was all I could find online.
Chambersburg, PA
Unfortunately, I feel like this isn't what I need, but it was all I could find online.
That's exactly what we have here in Carlisle too. I called they couldn't give me much of what we needed so I sent a sample off to Ward.
Call them and see if they have the brewing ions you want. Be nice, and offer a 6 pack as a good will gesture.
No dice. Called the borough and they said they don't trade the "secondary" stuff. Only bit I got was we have "very soft water" a 7.5 PH, and 10ppm on calcium.Send it to Ward Labs, specify test W-6.
| Parameter | Pre-softened | Post-softened |
| pH | 7.8 | 8.0 |
| Total Dissolved Solids Est, ppm | 442 | 465 |
| Electrical Conductivity | 0.74 | 0.77 |
| Cations / Anions, me/L | 8.9/9.1 | 9.2/9.2 |
| Sodium, Na | 19 | 210 |
| Potassium, K | 1 | <1 |
| Calcium, Ca | 102 | 1 |
| Magnesium, Mg | 35 | <1 |
| Total Hardness, CaCO3 | 401 | 3 |
| Nitrate, NO3-N | <0.1 | <0.1 |
| Sulfate, SO4-S | 13 | 12 |
| Chloride, Cl | 34 | 34 |
| Carbonate, CO3 | <1 | 9 |
| Bicarbonate, HCO3 | 447 | 435 |
| Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 | 367 | 372 |
| Total Phosphorus, P | <0.01 | <0.01 |
| Total Iron, Fe | 0.01 | 0.01 |
That is a typical result. Only the Ca, Mg, and Na results really shift. Ion exchange softeners are very good at their job.
PS: that unsoftened water has fairly high Mg. There is no need to ever add Mg to that water, so don't consider it. RO water would be a good addition to the brewing tools...just to reduce that Mg content. The rest of the profile is OK...well excepting for the alkalinity that needs to be neutralized!
Klickitat Jim's Ward Report
PH 7.8
TDS 125
CAT/ANION 2.1/2.2
Sodium 8
Potassium 2
Calcium 17
Magnesium 10
Total hardness CoCO3 84
Nitrate .3
Sulfate <1
Chloride <1
Carbonate <1
Bicarbonate 130
Total alkaline 107
Total phosphorus .08
Total iron <.01
How's that?
Beats running out for RO every brew day !
Ran numbers for my light n malty, calls for 1 tsp lactic in the mash.Sounds familiar for IPA ! You can use calcium chloride in a beer that you want to really show the malt in too. Gypsum much more for hoppy beers of course. Or a little of both for a balanced beer.
My IPA should get 1/2 tsp in sparge
Everything will need gypsum and IPA needs a lot. Calculator said 12g!
I'll be having fun crunching numbers on brewers friend. I don't have excel for Brun water sadly.
| Parameter | 10/2010 | 10/2013 |
| pH | 6.4 | 7.9 |
| Total Dissolved Solids Est, ppm | 100 | 196 |
| Electrical Conductivity | 0.17 | 0.33 |
| Cations / Anions, me/L | 1.5/1.3 | 3.2/3.0 |
| Sodium, Na | 8 | 8 |
| Potassium, K | 1 | 1 |
| Calcium, Ca | 8 | 36 |
| Magnesium, Mg | 8 | 12 |
| Total Hardness, CaCO3 | 53 | 140 |
| Nitrate, NO3-N | 0.1 | 0.2 |
| Sulfate, SO4-S | 8 | 9 |
| Chloride, Cl | 13 | 14 |
| Carbonate, CO3 | <1 | <1 |
| Bicarbonate, HCO3 | 29 | 123 |
| Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 | 24 | 101 |
| Total Phosphorus, P | N/A | 0.27 |
| Total Iron, Fe | N/A | <0.01 |
Yeah I was pretty surprised about the change too. I'll probably test it again next year to see if it's more consistent with the results I just got.
| pH | 7.6 |
| TDS Est | ppm 538 |
| Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm | 0.90 |
| Cations / Anions, me/L | 8.2 / 8.2 |
| Sodium, Na | 186 |
| Potassium, K | < 1 |
| Calcium, Ca | < 1 |
| Magnesium, Mg | < 1 |
| Total Hardness, CaCO3 | 7 |
| Nitrate, NO3-N | 5.8 (SAFE) |
| Sulfate, SO4-S | 10 |
| Chloride, Cl | 199 |
| Carbonate, CO3 | < 1 |
| Bicarbonate, HCO3 | 92 |
| Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 | 75 |
| Total Phosphorus, P | 0.04 |
| Total Iron, Fe | < 0.01 |
This is a Ward report for softened well water; the location is about 15 miles south of San Francisco, in a hilly section about a half-mile from the ocean.Your sodium is high, greater than 150 ppm. Very low Ca And Mg, so the softener works.
pH 7.6 TDS Est ppm 538 Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.90 Cations / Anions, me/L 8.2 / 8.2 Sodium, Na 186 Potassium, K < 1 Calcium, Ca < 1 Magnesium, Mg < 1 Total Hardness, CaCO3 7 Nitrate, NO3-N 5.8 (SAFE) Sulfate, SO4-S 10 Chloride, Cl 199 Carbonate, CO3 < 1 Bicarbonate, HCO3 92 Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 75 Total Phosphorus, P 0.04 Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
From taste, most of the Sodium and Chloride is from the softener. I appreciate this thread as it's challenging me to learn water chemistry for brewing but really to get a grasp of the house well water as well (for things like skin care - need to drop the Ph).
Brew-wise, my darker beers taste great, my IPA hop aroma fades within 2 months, and I've never had a crisp snappy taste on anything like a Pilsner. The one local pro brewer who has similar water is diluting half with RO and adding gypsum, advising to read up and use Bru'n Water. The numbers make sense when using Martin's spreadsheet, it's nicely done.
Asking openly:
What's your process for measuring mash Ph and adjusting? Do you measure when the grist is added and/or adjust over time?
Decarbonating by boiling: any advice on how long or how hot to heat the water? My water heater puts out quite a bit of what looks like baking soda when I clean it, so I'm wondering if it makes sense to start decarbonating using the heated water as a source.
Many thanks.
Our water report is super poor, so I bought a LaMotte water test kit. Here's what I get for Endicott, NY, about a week ago.
Total Hardness, as CaCO3 = 170 ppm
Ca Hardness, as CaCO3 = 130 ppm
Mg Hardness, as CaCO3 = 40 ppm
Chloride = 60 ppm
Sulfate = 0 ppm
Total Alkalinity, as CaCO3 = 160 ppm
Residual Alkalinity, as CaCO3 = 117 ppm
Sodium = 35 ppm
pH = 7.6
Just moved and got my new report from Ward Labs. Might be time to consider an RO system...That alkalinity is, well, impressive! That has mine beat!
pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 413
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.69
Cations / Anions, me/L 9.1 / 8.9
ppm
Sodium, Na 17
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 106
Magnesium, Mg 36
Total Hardness, CaCO3 415
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.8 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 27
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 466
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 383
Total Phosphorus, P 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
Just moved and got my new report from Ward Labs. Might be time to consider an RO system...That alkalinity is, well, impressive! That has mine beat!
pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 413
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.69
Cations / Anions, me/L 9.1 / 8.9
ppm
Sodium, Na 17
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 106
Magnesium, Mg 36
Total Hardness, CaCO3 415
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.8 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 7
Chloride, Cl 27
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 466
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 383
Total Phosphorus, P 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
My water report from Virginia Beach, VA. We get our water from the Moore's Bridges Plant in Norfolk, VA, which in turn, is fed from Lake Gaston.
pH : 7.48
Na: 11.4
Ca: 17
Mg: 5.6
Cl: 16
SO4-S: 35.4
HCO3: 31.6
TA, CaCO3: 26
TH, CaCO3: 66
I am on a well system and just this spring I installed an RO system with a 20 gallon tank. I draw off the RO water and keep it in typical 5 gallon water bottles that I seal up until brew day. This may have been asked and answered in this thread already, but 19 pages of water reports made me jump in at the end...so the question:The RO I sent to Ward Labs came back at 12 ppm TDS. All of the brewing ions were listed as <1 ppm. Note sure if that answers your question, but that is the datum I have for RO water's TDS.
My RO registers about 24-30 TDS on the meter I installed. Is that low enough to just consider it as being 0 for the water calculators? Or should I send it in for a test report to get the actual numbers for adjustment? I use Martin's advanced Brunwater spreadsheet and I am just getting used to doing so (before I was just using bottled water for brewing and adding from the water report from the water delivery company, as necessary).
Any thoughts on TDS in that low range?
My water report from Virginia Beach, VA. We get our water from the Moore's Bridges Plant in Norfolk, VA, which in turn, is fed from Lake Gaston.
pH : 7.48
Na: 11.4
Ca: 17
Mg: 5.6
Cl: 16
SO4-S: 35.4
HCO3: 31.6
TA, CaCO3: 26
TH, CaCO3: 66
Pretty nice water. The SO4 might be high for some styles (multiply by 3 so it is 106.2 ppm) but still pretty darned nice.
My water report from Virginia Beach, VA. We get our water from the Moore's Bridges Plant in Norfolk, VA, which in turn, is fed from Lake Gaston.
pH : 7.48
Na: 11.4
Ca: 17
Mg: 5.6
Cl: 16
SO4-S: 35.4
HCO3: 31.6
TA, CaCO3: 26
TH, CaCO3: 66
Pretty nice water. The SO4 might be high for some styles (multiply by 3 so it is 106.2 ppm) but still pretty darned nice.
Because I am new to adjusting my water, why do I multiply SO4 by three? Is it because it is expressed as a certain value and therefore must be tripled in value to determine the true ppm value?
My water report from Virginia Beach, VA. We get our water from the Moore's Bridges Plant in Norfolk, VA, which in turn, is fed from Lake Gaston.
pH : 7.48
Na: 11.4
Ca: 17
Mg: 5.6
Cl: 16
SO4-S: 35.4
HCO3: 31.6
TA, CaCO3: 26
TH, CaCO3: 66
Pretty nice water. The SO4 might be high for some styles (multiply by 3 so it is 106.2 ppm) but still pretty darned nice.
Because I am new to adjusting my water, why do I multiply SO4 by three? Is it because it is expressed as a certain value and therefore must be tripled in value to determine the true ppm value?
I am not a chemist, but here goes. Ward labs reports the Sulfur content, that is what the -S represents. The atomic weight of Sulfur is 32. The atomic weight of Oxygen is 16. So SO4 has a molecular weight of 32 + 4*16 = 96, or 3 times that of Sulfur. Probably more to it, but that works for this old engineer.
this is why i installed an RO system.
my well water:
pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 283
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.47
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.3 / 5.4
ppm
Sodium, Na 114
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 4
Magnesium, Mg 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 14
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate,CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 297
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 253
this is why i installed an RO system.
my well water:
pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 283
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.47
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.3 / 5.4
ppm
Sodium, Na 114
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 4
Magnesium, Mg 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 14
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 3
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate,CO3 6
Bicarbonate, HCO3 297
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 253
High sodium, high bicarbonate. Does the city soften the water? Or maybe there is a baking soda mine in town?
| pH Alkalinity Turbidity Color Total Coliform (P/A) HPC Total Chlorine Res. Temp Fluoride Chloride Conductivity TDS Ammonia (Total) Ammonia (Free) Ortho-phosphate Total Hardness* Ca Hardness THM TOC Silica Sulfate Sodium Aluminum Copper Iron Lead Manganese Calcium Magnesiium | 8.5 29 0.31 3 1 3.2 22 0.51 16 188 97 0.57 0.13 1.1 58 46 12 2.2 6.2 27 11 0.09 0.050 0.10 0.001 0.05 20 2.3 |
Jacksonville, FL 2015 YTD (Water softener w/ charcoal filter installed)
pH-8.1
TDS-461
Cations/Anions- 7.2/7.4
Sodium-165 (ppm)
Potassium-<1
Calcium-1
Magnesium-<1
Total Hardness, CaCO3-3
Nitrate-<.1
Sulfate-58
Chloride-35
Carbonate-<1
Bicarbonate-168
Total Alkalinity-139
Total Phosphorus-.01
Total Iron-<.01
*Based on my limited knowledge so far of water chemistry, I think the high sodium and hardness are based off of the water softener. The pH looks high and I'm guessing I need to add calcium carbonate as a start.
I'm thinking I should have sent in a water sample with bypassed water softener water in it. Thoughts?
Had my well tested out at the new place. Here it is for Champaign IL:That is pretty poor for brewing. Congratulations, it is even worse than mine.
pH 7.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 362
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.60
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.7 / 7.0
ppm
Sodium, Na 66
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 39
Magnesium, Mg 22
Total Hardness, CaCO3 189
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl < 1
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 424
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 350
Total Phosphorus, P 0.03
Total Iron, Fe 0.25
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Had my well tested out at the new place. Here it is for Champaign IL:That is pretty poor for brewing. Congratulations, it is even worse than mine.
pH 7.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 362
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.60
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.7 / 7.0
ppm
Sodium, Na 66
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 39
Magnesium, Mg 22
Total Hardness, CaCO3 189
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl < 1
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 424
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 350
Total Phosphorus, P 0.03
Total Iron, Fe 0.25
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Flbrewer, your magnesium is really high, perhaps too high
RO water should be cheaper than distilled, and spring water.Flbrewer, your magnesium is really high, perhaps too high
What happens w. too high of magnesium? I'd really like to use my water as otherwise I have to keep buying gallons of distilled and adding back in stuff.
One other idea I had was to just buy spring or drinking water bottled.
RO water should be cheaper than distilled, and spring water.Flbrewer, your magnesium is really high, perhaps too high
What happens w. too high of magnesium? I'd really like to use my water as otherwise I have to keep buying gallons of distilled and adding back in stuff.
One other idea I had was to just buy spring or drinking water bottled.
That's what I pay too Jon. Super easy to build from
Interesting Flbrewer i have always wondered what the water was like in FL being that i am from there. I think i recall you live in Jupiter, FL? or Jacksonville? Anyway the Mg (Epsom Salt i believe) is higher must be picking up some of that awesome salt water from the ocean:) Mg can make for a harsher bitterness i believe 0-40ppm is norm but above 100ppm i think can make you drop some serious mud if ya know what i mean (diarrhea).Flbrewer, your magnesium is really high, perhaps too high
What happens w. too high of magnesium? I'd really like to use my water as otherwise I have to keep buying gallons of distilled and adding back in stuff.
One other idea I had was to just buy spring or drinking water bottled.
I've listed my most recent report below in bold (water straight from tap). This is compared to my first water test (water ran through water softener).
Thoughts?
I can certainly smell the chlorine in the tap water, I'm considering just buying a cheap carbon filter or maybe just using tablets.
Finally, would this tap water profile work?
pH-8.1, 8.2
TDS-461, 449
Cations/Anions- 7.2/7.4, 7.7/7.7
Sodium-165 (ppm), 24
Potassium-<1, 3
Calcium-1, 67
Magnesium-<1, 38
Total Hardness (CaCO3) -3, 326
Nitrate-<.1, (same)
Sulfate-58, 61
Chloride-35, 38
Carbonate-<1 (same)
Bicarbonate-168, 174
Total Alkalinity-139, 144
Total Phosphorus-.01, <.01
Total Iron-<.01 (same)
I've listed my most recent report below in bold (water straight from tap). This is compared to my first water test (water ran through water softener).
Thoughts?
I can certainly smell the chlorine in the tap water, I'm considering just buying a cheap carbon filter or maybe just using tablets.
Finally, would this tap water profile work?
pH-8.1, 8.2
TDS-461, 449
Cations/Anions- 7.2/7.4, 7.7/7.7
Sodium-165 (ppm), 24
Potassium-<1, 3
Calcium-1, 67
Magnesium-<1, 38
Total Hardness (CaCO3) -3, 326
Nitrate-<.1, (same)
Sulfate-58, 61
Chloride-35, 38
Carbonate-<1 (same)
Bicarbonate-168, 174
Total Alkalinity-139, 144
Total Phosphorus-.01, <.01
Total Iron-<.01 (same)
So I'm curious about a couple of other options since my two above tests aren't stellar.
-mix of 50/50 tap and RO (would this lower the high magnesium)?
-tap water with a simple charcoal filter.
Yeah I've done that while including gypsum and Calc Chl. Are you talking about just using plain RO?I've listed my most recent report below in bold (water straight from tap). This is compared to my first water test (water ran through water softener).
Thoughts?
I can certainly smell the chlorine in the tap water, I'm considering just buying a cheap carbon filter or maybe just using tablets.
Finally, would this tap water profile work?
pH-8.1, 8.2
TDS-461, 449
Cations/Anions- 7.2/7.4, 7.7/7.7
Sodium-165 (ppm), 24
Potassium-<1, 3
Calcium-1, 67
Magnesium-<1, 38
Total Hardness (CaCO3) -3, 326
Nitrate-<.1, (same)
Sulfate-58, 61
Chloride-35, 38
Carbonate-<1 (same)
Bicarbonate-168, 174
Total Alkalinity-139, 144
Total Phosphorus-.01, <.01
Total Iron-<.01 (same)
So I'm curious about a couple of other options since my two above tests aren't stellar.
-mix of 50/50 tap and RO (would this lower the high magnesium)?
-tap water with a simple charcoal filter.
if it were me, id just go all RO and call it a day.
Yeah I've done that while including gypsum and Calc Chl. Are you talking about just using plain RO?I've listed my most recent report below in bold (water straight from tap). This is compared to my first water test (water ran through water softener).
Thoughts?
I can certainly smell the chlorine in the tap water, I'm considering just buying a cheap carbon filter or maybe just using tablets.
Finally, would this tap water profile work?
pH-8.1, 8.2
TDS-461, 449
Cations/Anions- 7.2/7.4, 7.7/7.7
Sodium-165 (ppm), 24
Potassium-<1, 3
Calcium-1, 67
Magnesium-<1, 38
Total Hardness (CaCO3) -3, 326
Nitrate-<.1, (same)
Sulfate-58, 61
Chloride-35, 38
Carbonate-<1 (same)
Bicarbonate-168, 174
Total Alkalinity-139, 144
Total Phosphorus-.01, <.01
Total Iron-<.01 (same)
So I'm curious about a couple of other options since my two above tests aren't stellar.
-mix of 50/50 tap and RO (would this lower the high magnesium)?
-tap water with a simple charcoal filter.
if it were me, id just go all RO and call it a day.
My only though w tap was that you are gaining a lot of good minerals already there.
I'll stick to RO, unfortunately the only large refillable water I see is purified and drinking at local Wal Marts.
Correction...just called the "Primo" customer service and it is indeed a RO water system even though it says drinking. They also mentioned they add a trace amount of minerals for taste. Bingo. At least I can save some money on 10 gallons of water now.
Ok the search continues. I don't see how this is a deal at $6.50 per 5 gallons. Back to single gallons of distilled for .88.
Ok the search continues. I don't see how this is a deal at $6.50 per 5 gallons. Back to single gallons of distilled for .88.
doesn't publix carry the RO machines?
Ok the search continues. I don't see how this is a deal at $6.50 per 5 gallons. Back to single gallons of distilled for .88.
doesn't publix carry the RO machines?
Yes they do...not sure what the heck I was thinking. They do offer .30 refills on gallons of RO water.
I just needed to talk it through ad-naseum before I (you) figured it out.Ok the search continues. I don't see how this is a deal at $6.50 per 5 gallons. Back to single gallons of distilled for .88.
doesn't publix carry the RO machines?
Yes they do...not sure what the heck I was thinking. They do offer .30 refills on gallons of RO water.
there you go, now you're in business !
I just needed to talk it through ad-naseum before I (you) figured it out.Ok the search continues. I don't see how this is a deal at $6.50 per 5 gallons. Back to single gallons of distilled for .88.
doesn't publix carry the RO machines?
Yes they do...not sure what the heck I was thinking. They do offer .30 refills on gallons of RO water.
there you go, now you're in business !
pH 8.2That alkalinity is huge, so you would need a lot of acid to reduce it.
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 442
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.74
Cations / Anions, me/L 8.7 / 9.1
ppm
Sodium, Na 140
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 26
Magnesium, Mg 15
Total Hardness, CaCO3 128
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl 17
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 520
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 433
Total Phosphorus, P 0.71
Total Iron, Fe 0.01
Any thoughts on a Hoppy Beer? Been adding Gypsum and a little acidity to lower PH. Running water through a filter too.
Mix or all RO?
Similar to other posters, my water make dynamite stouts, and my amber are pretty good, but when I try to go to IPAs and Pale Ales, it is hit and miss. Trying to understand the water chemistry and mash additions. -Eric
Birmingham, Alabama Water Works Board Report 2014
Ca+2 = 59
Mg+2 = 8
Na+ = 8
CI- = 8
SO4-2 = 67
Alkanlinity HCO3 = 90
pH = 7.7
This is an area that I am not up to speed on. Anyone want to tell me if this is a good profile or not? Currently I use 1 ground campden tablet & 1 tbl sp pH5.2 in strike & sparge water on brew day.
Man, that is a lot of sodium and a lot of alkalinity.
What does your water look like before it goes through the softener? You might want to skip it for brewing and then dilute with RO or distilled to cut alkalinity as necessary.
Seattle (North Beach)Nice water, I am envious.
pH 7.1
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 55
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.09
Cations / Anions, me/L 0.7 / 0.8
ppm
Sodium, Na 2
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 9
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 27
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 4
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 27
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 22
Total Phosphorus, P 0.55
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
Westminster, Maryland municipal tap water.
Test results from Ward Labs, from July 2015. The sample was taken from the output of a carbon filter to strip the chlorine.
pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 462
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.77
Cations / Anions, me/L 7.0 / 7.7
ppm:
Sodium, Na 33
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 81
Magnesium, Mg 17
Total Hardness, CaCO3 273
Nitrate, NO3-N 3.6 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 6
Chloride, Cl 118
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 229
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 188
Total Phosphorus, P 0.13
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Just got this back, but I don't know the conversions from mg/L and ug/L for ppm or ppb or ppt, So I got a report but can't make out exactly what I want out of it... your thoughts
pH 7.4
Total Hardness [CaCO3] 340 mg/L
Fluoride [F-] .87 mg/L
Sodium [Na] 1.12 mg/L
Iron [Fe] 0.143 mg/L
Manganese [Mn] .011 mg/L
HAA5 .93 mg/L (additive for microbes)
Lead [Pb] 2ug/L
Copper [Cu] 1.199 mg/L
Nitrate [NO3-] .22 mg/L
Chlorine [Cl] .83 mg/L
Got this recently...can't figure out how my sodium is so damn high! I ensured that I bypassed my water softener and ran the water for about 5 minutes. This is city tap water filtered through a Pur filtering device.Your Ca and Mg are very low, NA high. Looks like it was softened. Does the city soften? Can they give you any data on hardness?
pH- 8.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm-503
Cations / Anions, me/L- 8.1/8.6
Sodium, Na- 179
Potassium, K- 12
Calcium, Ca Magnesium, Mg- 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3- 3
Nitrate, NO3-N- < 1
Sulfate, SO4-S- 58
Chloride, Cl- 52
Carbonate, CO3- 9.4
Bicarbonate, HCO3- 195
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3- 173
Total Phosphorus, P- .82
Total Iron, Fe- .02
New house, new water, not good - help?
pH - 8.3
TDS - 532 ppm
Na - 140 ppm
K - 3 ppm
Ca - 32 ppm
Mg - 13 ppm
Total Hardness (CaCO3) - 134 ppm
Nitrate (NO3-N) - <0.1
Sulfate (SO4-S) - 89 ppm
Cl - 46 ppm
CO3 - 1.2 ppm
HCO3 - 117 ppm
CaCO3 - 98 ppm
P - 0.57 ppm
Total Iron - <0.1
The sodium is quite high - can't (don't want to) brew with this stuff! Should I just buy RO and build it myself?
+1. Someone better at this might be able to give you a mitigation strategy, but even if you diluted that by 50% or 75% your sodium would be high enough that you'd need to avoid any treatments that add sodium. All RO opens up a lot more options, and once you're diluting beyond 50% why bother unless there's something in the source water that you DO want.New house, new water, not good - help?
pH - 8.3
TDS - 532 ppm
Na - 140 ppm
K - 3 ppm
Ca - 32 ppm
Mg - 13 ppm
Total Hardness (CaCO3) - 134 ppm
Nitrate (NO3-N) - <0.1
Sulfate (SO4-S) - 89 ppm
Cl - 46 ppm
CO3 - 1.2 ppm
HCO3 - 117 ppm
CaCO3 - 98 ppm
P - 0.57 ppm
Total Iron - <0.1
The sodium is quite high - can't (don't want to) brew with this stuff! Should I just buy RO and build it myself?
Yeah, the Na is pretty high. Personally I'd go with RO.
+2; Looks like softened water to me. If that is tap I'd lease a decent RO system for drinking/cooking with some access for brewing. Na appears 3x recommended limit of EPA. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjgoousqdfMAhVHGz4KHfGcDrkQFggjMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epa.gov%2Fsites%2Fproduction%2Ffiles%2F2014-09%2Fdocuments%2Fsupport_cc1_sodium_dwreport.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF44Ubt5bL_qUbnEJJqS-tSu5G3Xw&cad=rja (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjgoousqdfMAhVHGz4KHfGcDrkQFggjMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epa.gov%2Fsites%2Fproduction%2Ffiles%2F2014-09%2Fdocuments%2Fsupport_cc1_sodium_dwreport.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF44Ubt5bL_qUbnEJJqS-tSu5G3Xw&cad=rja)
I would do some due diligence here.
All values in parts per million (ppm) except pHThere are a lot of cations (+ charge), and the bicarbonate anion is missing. The electrical charges should balance, but without some of the ions included it won't.
Total Alkalinity 184
Residual Alkalinity 71
Total Hardness 570
Calcium 221
Magnesium 349
Sulfate 54
Chloride 106
Sodium 109
pH 7.8
Total Chlorine .05
Free Chlorine 0
Chloramine .05
What's wrong with this report? Brunwater gives me an error
Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk
This is a Ward Labs report from a few years ago. Pretty stable Lake Michigan sourced NW Indiana water. What do you all think of it?
Ca: 35ppm
Mg: 12ppm
Na: 8ppm
Cl: 18ppm
So4: 24ppm
Alk: 106
Bicarbonate: 128
ph: ~8
I got that done at my LHBS...There are a lot of cations (+ charge), and the bicarbonate anion is missing. The electrical charges should balance, but without some of the ions included it won't.
Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk
The Calcium and Magneasium values are so high I would question those and the total hardness.
Where is the report from?
This is a Ward Labs report from a few years ago. Pretty stable Lake Michigan sourced NW Indiana water. What do you all think of it?
Ca: 35ppm
Mg: 12ppm
Na: 8ppm
Cl: 18ppm
So4: 24ppm
Alk: 106
Bicarbonate: 128
ph: ~8
It looks like water from a Great Lake - they are all look similar.
Good for Amber-ish to brownish beers. You need to cut with RO or distilled water for light colored lagers or ales.
From Ward LaboratoriesLow Ca, high HCO3, Na, and Cl make that not suited to brewing.
Just move to Porter Indiana - well water with water softener :(
pH 7,4
Total Dissolved Solids 1241
Electrical Conductivity mmho/cm 2,07
Cations/Anions me/L 19,1/19,4
Sodium, Na 436
Potasium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 2
Magnesium, Mg <1
Total Hardness, CaCo3 5
Nitrate <0,1
Sulfate, SO4-S 22
Chloride, Cl 460
Carbonate, CO3 <1,0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 297
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 244
Total Phosphorus, P 0,03
Total Iron, Fe 0,02
Should I start collect rain water, or just stick with gose :D
Thank you!There are several threads on removing O2 from water, and the whole process.
I'm searching on reverse osmosis products. Some systems have to enrich the levels of oxygen in their water. Is this have any impact for brewing? https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01MSWO8HC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RGRQDF0G60MC&coliid=I33744VXFI45Q4 (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01MSWO8HC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RGRQDF0G60MC&coliid=I33744VXFI45Q4)
The water for San Diego, CA in May 2009:Looks good for a malty Brown Ale?
pH: 7.8
Sodium (Na): 99
Potassium (K): 5
Calcium (Ca): 70
Magnesium (Mg): 25
Sulfate (SO4): 66
Chloride (Cl): 96
Bicarbonate (HCO3): 141
Total Hardness (CaCO3): 279
Total Alkalinity (CaCO3): 115
I just moved to a new city and figured I'd research what the water is like.
Rialto, Ca. 2015 Water report
Sodium (Na): 15.3
Potassium (K): 3.5
Calcium (Ca): 70
Magnesium (Mg): 13
Sulfate (SO4): 50
Chloride (Cl): 8.9
Bicarbonate (HCO3): 229.7
Total Hardness (CaCO3): 228
Total Alkalinity (CaCO3): 191
Can this very hard water be "fixed"? Or what styles is this profile suited to?
I just moved to a new city and figured I'd research what the water is like.The water is probably pretty good for making dark beers with little to no mash pH adjustment. Other beers will benefit from adjusting.
Rialto, Ca. 2015 Water report
Sodium (Na): 15.3
Potassium (K): 3.5
Calcium (Ca): 70
Magnesium (Mg): 13
Sulfate (SO4): 50
Chloride (Cl): 8.9
Bicarbonate (HCO3): 229.7
Total Hardness (CaCO3): 228
Total Alkalinity (CaCO3): 191
Can this very hard water be "fixed"? Or what styles is this profile suited to?
Thanks for all the advice.Your take on Pilsners is correct.
I brewed some of my house recipes and they just didn't taste the same, and the only variable that changed was the water. Which led me to research what my new water was like.
I did some research on water chemistry and now my head is spinning, but I do feel that I learned some things.
It looks like Pilsners and other light styles will be best if brewed with RO and some Calcium.
Bitter beers will either require acid, additives and or dilution.
Malty Ambers and Dark beers can be brewed as is.
Just looking for some input on my water report. I am just starting to dabble with all grain brewing and trying to look into the different elements in the water report. It just seems to be over my head or I'm over thinking it. Primarily brewing Ales
pH 7.5
Calcium 75.1
Magnesium 20.8
Sodium 15.3
Sulfate 27.7
Chloride 34.1
Alkalinity, Total (CaCO3) 233.6
Any tips on basic water adjustment for a guy starting to brew all grain?? Or else I can get RO for .25 a gallon
pH 7.5
Calcium 75.1
Magnesium 20.8
Sodium 15.3
Sulfate 27.7
Chloride 34.1
Alkalinity, Total (CaCO3) 233.6
Since we are on the tooic of acid. Which will give me better results?pH 7.5
Calcium 75.1
Magnesium 20.8
Sodium 15.3
Sulfate 27.7
Chloride 34.1
Alkalinity, Total (CaCO3) 233.6
It's not great, but it can be worked with. Pre-boiling that water will knock a bunch of calcium and alkalinity out. Read the Decarbonation by Boiling thread on this forum.
Otherwise, learning to use acid effectively will be a skill you develop. Acidification can take care of excessive alkalinity, but beware of overly 'flavorful' acids with this level of alkalinity. Phosphoric acid may be a good choice in this case.
If using BIAB methods with no sparging, then acid malt use is fine. If sparging will be conducted, then you will need to use an acid to reduce the alkalinity of sparging water.My method uses RO water, a 5 gal cooler, single step mash and batch sparge. I use your software along with salt additions in the mash to achieve the desired pH and come close to the ppm for the desired style ie; yellow, amber, brown, black, full, balanced or dry.
Boosting the Ca or Mg to get pH down might create excessive concentrations of those ions. That may not be ideal for many beer styles. Acidification is always preferred over mineralization.
Alkalinity 309Dang, that is terrible, worse than mine!
Res. Alkalinity 88
Bicarb 375
Calcium 278
Mag. 82
Total hardness 360
Chloride 50
SO4 81
Sodium 24
Total chlorine 1.79
Free chlorine .87
Chloramine .92
pH 7.5
So this is my tap water as of 2 weeks ago. I let my water run for 4 mins before gathering a 16oz sample for testing... this is why I struggle with my water. RO is my cheapest option. Thoughts?
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Johnson County farms Runoff. It's horrific. Even my immersion chiller can ruin a batch. A slow drip can turn to liquid bandaids with just a few mins.Alkalinity 309Dang, that is terrible, worse than mine!
Res. Alkalinity 88
Bicarb 375
Calcium 278
Mag. 82
Total hardness 360
Chloride 50
SO4 81
Sodium 24
Total chlorine 1.79
Free chlorine .87
Chloramine .92
pH 7.5
So this is my tap water as of 2 weeks ago. I let my water run for 4 mins before gathering a 16oz sample for testing... this is why I struggle with my water. RO is my cheapest option. Thoughts?
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Where are you generally located? Near the limestone part?
My sister lived just south of county line road for years. I'm sure there is a big limestone layer there.I need to move to an aquifer... real conversation since the wife and I are both self employed.
Alkalinity 309
Res. Alkalinity 88
Bicarb 375
Calcium 278
Mag. 82
Total hardness 360
Chloride 50
SO4 81
Sodium 24
Total chlorine 1.79
Free chlorine .87
Chloramine .92
pH 7.5
So this is my tap water as of 2 weeks ago. I let my water run for 4 mins before gathering a 16oz sample for testing... this is why I struggle with my water. RO is my cheapest option. Thoughts?
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I'm in Lawrenceburg, and I use RO to make sure I know where I stand each and every time. But we could use more Brewers here for sure, c'mon downMy sister lived just south of county line road for years. I'm sure there is a big limestone layer there.I need to move to an aquifer... real conversation since the wife and I are both self employed.
Wanna move to Lawrenceburg?...
Why?
My beer will taste better.
Shut the hell up.
Okay babe hahaha
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Monroeville, NJ
Personal well
Ward Labs W-6 test
PH 8.1
TDS 190
Electrical Conductivity 0.32
Cations/Anions 3.3/3.3
Sodium 76
Potassium <1
Calcium <0
Magnesium <1
Total Hardness <1
Nitrate <0.1
Sulfate 4
Chloride 2
Carbonate <1.0
Bicarbonate 180
Total Alkalinity 149
Cant wait to brew again!
Hey All, I just got my water report back from Ward and figured I'd share. I hope this helps someone else. If you brew in White City, hit me up with a message, it's a small town. If someone wants to elaborate on what this means for my brewing, I'd appreciate it.Your sodium, magnesium and chloride are all quite high (go figure, Salt Lake City?) With decent calcium and moderate alkalinity, you could easily just dilute it 50:50 (or a bit more dilute) with RO or distilled water and, if desired, add some gypsum to up the sulfate to taste depending on style. But the Na, Mg and Cl will still be on the high side, so by experimentation you can determine if you want to just build RO from the ground up. Plug your profile into Bru'n Water and play around with it!
Salt Lake City, Utah (White City Water District)
pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 895
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.49
Cations / Anions, me/L 12.7 / 12.5
ppm
Sodium, Na 95
Potassium, K 5
Calcium, Ca 118
Magnesium, Mg 31
Total Hardness, CaCO3 424
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 355
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 128
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 106
Hey All, I just got my water report back from Ward and figured I'd share. I hope this helps someone else. If you brew in White City, hit me up with a message, it's a small town. If someone wants to elaborate on what this means for my brewing, I'd appreciate it.Your sodium, magnesium and chloride are all quite high (go figure, Salt Lake City?) With decent calcium and moderate alkalinity, you could easily just dilute it 50:50 (or a bit more dilute) with RO or distilled water and, if desired, add some gypsum to up the sulfate to taste depending on style. But the Na, Mg and Cl will still be on the high side, so by experimentation you can determine if you want to just build RO from the ground up. Plug your profile into Bru'n Water and play around with it!
Salt Lake City, Utah (White City Water District)
pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 895
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.49
Cations / Anions, me/L 12.7 / 12.5
ppm
Sodium, Na 95
Potassium, K 5
Calcium, Ca 118
Magnesium, Mg 31
Total Hardness, CaCO3 424
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 355
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 128
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 106
I just use this freestanding unit, I only use it for brewing water, but it really is good (TDS down from almost 300ppm to around 5ppm, runs a gallon in about 15-20 min, affordable.)Hey All, I just got my water report back from Ward and figured I'd share. I hope this helps someone else. If you brew in White City, hit me up with a message, it's a small town. If someone wants to elaborate on what this means for my brewing, I'd appreciate it.Your sodium, magnesium and chloride are all quite high (go figure, Salt Lake City?) With decent calcium and moderate alkalinity, you could easily just dilute it 50:50 (or a bit more dilute) with RO or distilled water and, if desired, add some gypsum to up the sulfate to taste depending on style. But the Na, Mg and Cl will still be on the high side, so by experimentation you can determine if you want to just build RO from the ground up. Plug your profile into Bru'n Water and play around with it!
Salt Lake City, Utah (White City Water District)
pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 895
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.49
Cations / Anions, me/L 12.7 / 12.5
ppm
Sodium, Na 95
Potassium, K 5
Calcium, Ca 118
Magnesium, Mg 31
Total Hardness, CaCO3 424
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 355
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 128
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 106
Awesome, thanks Robert! Any recommendations on an affordable RO Unit for the house? I guess it'd probably benefit us for drinking water anyway. I'll just start with RO and build from there I guess. Kinda bummed my water sucks here, but it is what it is.
Brewtopalonian, look at this thread for good options!I just use this freestanding unit, I only use it for brewing water, but it really is good (TDS down from almost 300ppm to around 5ppm, runs a gallon in about 15-20 min, affordable.)Hey All, I just got my water report back from Ward and figured I'd share. I hope this helps someone else. If you brew in White City, hit me up with a message, it's a small town. If someone wants to elaborate on what this means for my brewing, I'd appreciate it.Your sodium, magnesium and chloride are all quite high (go figure, Salt Lake City?) With decent calcium and moderate alkalinity, you could easily just dilute it 50:50 (or a bit more dilute) with RO or distilled water and, if desired, add some gypsum to up the sulfate to taste depending on style. But the Na, Mg and Cl will still be on the high side, so by experimentation you can determine if you want to just build RO from the ground up. Plug your profile into Bru'n Water and play around with it!
Salt Lake City, Utah (White City Water District)
pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 895
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.49
Cations / Anions, me/L 12.7 / 12.5
ppm
Sodium, Na 95
Potassium, K 5
Calcium, Ca 118
Magnesium, Mg 31
Total Hardness, CaCO3 424
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 355
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 128
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 106
Awesome, thanks Robert! Any recommendations on an affordable RO Unit for the house? I guess it'd probably benefit us for drinking water anyway. I'll just start with RO and build from there I guess. Kinda bummed my water sucks here, but it is what it is.
APEC Portable Countertop Reverse Osmosis Water Filter System, Installation-Free, fits most STANDARD FAUCET (RO-CTOP) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IB14XDU?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf
If your water is working ok for drinking and utility purposes, you could try something like this. Or buy water. Health food stores or groceries often have an RO unit where you can fill containers for $0.25 a gallon or so, and then there's distilled.
If you want to go with a whole house system, you can see what Home Depot or whatever has, but I think I'd call a local water treatment company. They could not only assess your needs and install a system, but you could probably get a good deal on a service contract, for replacing cartridges and such. I haven't looked into it, but I'm guessing when you get into whole house, "affordable" is in the eye of the beholder!
Simpsonville, SC (Public water supply from Greenville Water)You should be brewing pilsners.... Fo sho
Tested 08FEB2016 by Ward Labs
pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 28
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.05
Cations / Anions, me/L 0.5 / 0.5
Sodium, Na 8 ppm
Potassium, K < 1 ppm
Calcium, Ca 1 ppm
Magnesium, Mg < 1 ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3 3 ppm
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 ppm (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 2 ppm
Chloride, Cl 3 ppm
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 20 ppm
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 17 ppm
Total Phosphorus, P 0.26 ppm
Total Iron, Fe 0.02 ppm
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
NE Minnesota, Shallow well (30ft), 50 ft from lake,Dang, that is nice water.
Ca 14
Mg 5
Na 6
Cl 8
SO4 4
HCO 47
pH 6.6
The sodium and alkalinity are pretty high. You could manage the alkalinity with acid or acid malt, but I don't know about brewing with that much sodium (I don't have any personal experience with it).
I think you'd want to dilute that pretty heavily with RO water and add calcium and sulfate/chloride back.
Ca can vary with style, and with the sulfate and chloride you want for taste, which come with Ca. Technically, malt brings enough to meet the bare minimum requirements for mashing and fermentation. But it's generally advisable to have at least 50ppm Ca in the water for good enzyme activity in the mash and clarification of the beer, and 50-100ppm is generally the range needed for pH adjustment in pale beers.