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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: 69franx on May 15, 2014, 06:17:06 PM

Title: US 05?
Post by: 69franx on May 15, 2014, 06:17:06 PM
I am planning on a clone of a local brew this weekend(or at least my first attempt at it.) The brewery calls for American Ale yeast so I would normally choose WLP001, but I dont have time for a starter (due to late start/poor planning) so I want to go with a re-hydrated dry yeast. The OG is expected to be 1.100 for 3.5 gallons of a double hazelnut brown. What are your suggestions for yeast choice in dry and how many packs? Any ideas are welcome and helpful.
Edit: Mr Malty calls for 1.1 dry packs and Beersmith says 2. Both sites say I need about 234B cells, and Beersmith shows 178B with 2 packs of dry US05 just a couple weeks old, which is significantly less than the necessary 234B. A follow up question in regards to dry yeast viability: what is the expected viability, and are the packs actually dated?
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: dkfick on May 15, 2014, 06:23:25 PM
I am planning on a clone of a local brew this weekend(or at least my first attempt at it.) The brewery calls for American Ale yeast so I would normally choose WLP001, but I dont have time for a starter (due to late start/poor planning) so I want to go with a re-hydrated dry yeast. The OG is expected to be 1.100 for 3.5 gallons of a double hazelnut brown. What are your suggestions for yeast choice in dry and how many packs? Any ideas are welcome and helpful.
I would pitch 2 packs of yeast and not worry about it.  With a batch size of 3.5 gallons it's an overpitch but I would err on the side of the overpitch vs an underpitch.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: 69franx on May 15, 2014, 06:24:57 PM
I am planning on a clone of a local brew this weekend(or at least my first attempt at it.) The brewery calls for American Ale yeast so I would normally choose WLP001, but I dont have time for a starter (due to late start/poor planning) so I want to go with a re-hydrated dry yeast. The OG is expected to be 1.100 for 3.5 gallons of a double hazelnut brown. What are your suggestions for yeast choice in dry and how many packs? Any ideas are welcome and helpful.
I would pitch 2 packs of yeast and not worry about it.  With a batch size of 3.5 gallons it's an overpitch but I would err on the side of the overpitch vs an underpitch.
Is US05 the right choice though, as I have not yet purchased my yeast?
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 15, 2014, 06:34:37 PM
To my knowledge, yes.  You can use US-05 (I think they now call it S-05), 1056 and 001 interchangeably.

There are subtle differences, but they all came from the same source.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: theDarkSide on May 15, 2014, 06:34:51 PM
Is US05 the right choice though, as I have not yet purchased my yeast?
Since you don't have time for a starter, yes...US-05 is the right yeast if it is asking for American Ale yeast.  I always have a copy packets of that handy in the fridge.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 15, 2014, 06:37:10 PM
US-05 is fine.

I think beersmith might be talking about 5 gram packets rather than 11.5 gram packets. 1 should be plenty you could use 1.5 I don't know that I'd use 2 though. I find that too high a pitch rate can cause as many problems, and similar ones, to underpitching. Undesirable off flavors/esters and poor attenuation.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 15, 2014, 06:38:23 PM
I always have a copy packets of that handy in the fridge.

Me, too.  Grabbed a couple fresh packs for some brewing I have planned this weekend and realized I already have four packs in the fridge.  And a starter of 1056 going.

One batch will get the 1056, one the 05.  I'll see if I can taste a difference.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: bbesser on May 15, 2014, 07:05:37 PM
US-05 seems like the right choice, but a starting gravity of 1.100 is pretty high.  Anyone know what the alcohol tolerance is for US-05?  I know the 1056 is stated as 11% which is right around the 1.100 target gravity, and since they are similar strains, I would assume they have similar tolerance, but dont know for sure.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 15, 2014, 07:07:12 PM
I am planning on a clone of a local brew this weekend(or at least my first attempt at it.) The brewery calls for American Ale yeast so I would normally choose WLP001, but I dont have time for a starter (due to late start/poor planning) so I want to go with a re-hydrated dry yeast. The OG is expected to be 1.100 for 3.5 gallons of a double hazelnut brown. What are your suggestions for yeast choice in dry and how many packs? Any ideas are welcome and helpful.
I would pitch 2 packs of yeast and not worry about it.  With a batch size of 3.5 gallons it's an overpitch but I would err on the side of the overpitch vs an underpitch.

+1
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: josephbauer on May 15, 2014, 07:13:02 PM
I would rehydrate the yeast using and use Go-Ferm (http://www.homebrewing.org/Go-Ferm-Half-pound_p_1544.html).
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: dkfick on May 15, 2014, 07:17:05 PM
I would rehydrate the yeast using and use Go-Ferm (http://www.homebrewing.org/Go-Ferm-Half-pound_p_1544.html).
This is my standard practice as well when using dry yeast.  Rather it be for mead, beer, or whatever. 
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: denny on May 15, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
US-05 seems like the right choice, but a starting gravity of 1.100 is pretty high.  Anyone know what the alcohol tolerance is for US-05?  I know the 1056 is stated as 11% which is right around the 1.100 target gravity, and since they are similar strains, I would assume they have similar tolerance, but dont know for sure.

I've used US05 up to 12% ABV.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: Jeff M on May 16, 2014, 12:37:16 AM
Fun Fact.  Safale says their US-05 has 7B cells per gram of yeast, so a packet should have about 70b cells.  Other well respected authorities on yeast say that an 11.5G package of US-05 have 200B cells.

Beersmith is quoting the safale info
Mrmalty uses Jamil Z's info

Which is right?  I had this discussion with a customer a few days ago, i trust Jamil Z over some unknown frenchman.  Where do you guys weigh in?

Safale factoid Page for us-05http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
Jamil Z's info (cant find the reference atm, but MRmalty suggests 1G of dry yeast has about 18B cells in it)
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: 69franx on May 16, 2014, 01:05:52 AM
And beersmith says the sachets start at 100B cells less degradation. The packs have a best by date, is that 2 years out from packaging, does anyone know? If so, I just bought 2 packs tonight that are 6 months old. I don't want to see what that looks like in beersmith


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Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: The Professor on May 16, 2014, 01:53:00 AM
US-05 seems like the right choice, but a starting gravity of 1.100 is pretty high.  Anyone know what the alcohol tolerance is for US-05?  I know the 1056 is stated as 11% which is right around the 1.100 target gravity, and since they are similar strains, I would assume they have similar tolerance, but dont know for sure.

I've used US05 up to 12% ABV.

+1...no worries, it can handle high gravity brews  just fine.   
I've even repitched the slurry into subsequent brews and never had any flavor or performance issues.
Dry yeast has sure come a LONG way quality wise.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: 69franx on May 16, 2014, 04:14:52 AM
Thanks to everyone who put in their thoughts. I bought 2 packs if S05 and am planning on going with 1.5 or 2 packs. Still not sure, please convince me...


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Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 16, 2014, 05:59:21 AM
go for both. if the packets are older you're not overpitching that much. (or maybe not at all. Apparently depending on the source of info ;))
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: denny on May 16, 2014, 03:23:45 PM
Fun Fact.  Safale says their US-05 has 7B cells per gram of yeast, so a packet should have about 70b cells.  Other well respected authorities on yeast say that an 11.5G package of US-05 have 200B cells.

Beersmith is quoting the safale info
Mrmalty uses Jamil Z's info

Which is right?  I had this discussion with a customer a few days ago, i trust Jamil Z over some unknown frenchman.  Where do you guys weigh in?

Safale factoid Page for us-05http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
Jamil Z's info (cant find the reference atm, but MRmalty suggests 1G of dry yeast has about 18B cells in it)

Unless Jamil and other have actually done a real cell count, I trust the manufacturer.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: tommymorris on May 16, 2014, 03:51:43 PM
The Fermentis data sheet says ">" 6B/g. I am guessing that is a minimum based the stated product shelf life.

However, without some study there is no way to know how much more you might find in a sachet based on manufacture date.
Title: Re: US 05?
Post by: Jeff M on May 16, 2014, 04:00:03 PM
Fun Fact.  Safale says their US-05 has 7B cells per gram of yeast, so a packet should have about 70b cells.  Other well respected authorities on yeast say that an 11.5G package of US-05 have 200B cells.

Beersmith is quoting the safale info
Mrmalty uses Jamil Z's info

Which is right?  I had this discussion with a customer a few days ago, i trust Jamil Z over some unknown frenchman.  Where do you guys weigh in?

Safale factoid Page for us-05http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
Jamil Z's info (cant find the reference atm, but MRmalty suggests 1G of dry yeast has about 18B cells in it)

Unless Jamil and other have actually done a real cell count, I trust the manufacturer.

I agree Denny, but i know i read something with Jamil stating he did multiple cell counts, I just cant find it.

Edit:Found it.

Quote
"Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter. "

Page
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php