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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: yso191 on May 18, 2014, 08:52:20 PM

Title: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 18, 2014, 08:52:20 PM
In my ongoing quest to make my brewing process as perfect as possible, I've hit an impasse - I can't figure out if it even is a problem.  And then, I don't know how to fix it anyway.  Here's the essence of it:

Cold crashing wort after fermentation causes the beer to condense; the consequence of which is the intake of air (or starsan).

Obviously installing a filter will prevent any spoilers from getting in, but I also think about staling brought on by post-fermentation exposure to oxygen.

So is the amount of oxygen so small as to be insignificant?  If true then yes indeed, I am being too anal.

Do pro-breweries address this?  If so, what do they do?

No, I have not experienced any of the negative effects this post is concerned with, I'm just trying to fine-tune my process.

Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: dkfick on May 18, 2014, 08:54:14 PM
I use a solid stopper for this reason... A little bit of a vacuum created in the fermenter but I've never had an issue with it.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: bbesser on May 18, 2014, 09:01:24 PM
I think you are probably being a little too anal.  The addition of a little starsan is no problem, and the amount of oxygen that may be pulled in is negligible when compared to the amount introduced when racking to a bottling bucket or keg (assuming they are not purged).

It is honestly something that I have never considered in the past and would not worry too much about it, but that is me.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 18, 2014, 09:08:18 PM
I cold crash in the keg while I force carb - when the outside air gets a chance to find equilibrium, that means the keg just kicked and I'm cleaning it.  But when I crashed in the fermenter I always felt that the air must've been sitting on top of the heavier blanket of CO2, because my beer wasn't oxidized from it. I'm just more confident crashing in the keg now.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: denny on May 18, 2014, 09:13:24 PM
I think you are probably being a little too anal.  The addition of a little starsan is no problem, and the amount of oxygen that may be pulled in is negligible when compared to the amount introduced when racking to a bottling bucket or keg (assuming they are not purged).

It is honestly something that I have never considered in the past and would not worry too much about it, but that is me.

I agree with all of this.  In addition, by the time you;re ready to crash it, there's no need to use an airlock.  Use a stopper like Dan suggested, or do what I do...rubber band some foil or plastic wrap over the top.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: 69franx on May 18, 2014, 09:55:12 PM
Glad I read this post from you Denny. I will use this process the next I cold crash: hopefully 2 batches 2 weeks from now


Sent from The Alpine Brewery using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: guido on May 18, 2014, 09:59:18 PM
I think you are probably being a little too anal.  The addition of a little starsan is no problem, and the amount of oxygen that may be pulled in is negligible when compared to the amount introduced when racking to a bottling bucket or keg (assuming they are not purged).

It is honestly something that I have never considered in the past and would not worry too much about it, but that is me.

I agree with all of this.  In addition, by the time you;re ready to crash it, there's no need to use an airlock.  Use a stopper like Dan suggested, or do what I do...rubber band some foil or plastic wrap over the top.

You always have the high-tech solution.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: gmac on May 18, 2014, 10:50:24 PM
RDWHAHB was coined for a reason.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: majorvices on May 18, 2014, 11:02:27 PM
It is absolutely best to limit o2 exposure wherever possible. But as I learned from a conversion with another forum member recently, on unfiltered beer oxidation damage is much less of a concern. I don't think the vacuum you are creating is a problem. I do think that lagering in stainless with positive co2 pressure is your best option, however.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: troybinso on May 19, 2014, 01:11:42 AM
There is only so much you can do about it if you are using a carboy. Even if you use a solid stopper then as soon as you take the stopper off it will suck in the ambient air. I guess you could put on a solid stopper, then crash cool and then let it warm back up before you transfer it. Also, you can use a solid stopper, then crash cool and then open the carboy and shoot in a few blasts of co2 before you close it back up. Not sure it is something to worry about, but if you are trying to save beer for a long time, the less oxygen the better.

Professional breweries have pressurizable conical tanks. Usually you will cap off the tank with just a little bit of fermentation left to go to start building up some pressure inside the tank. This allows the pressurized co2 to just be absorbed into the beer once it cools down, and even when you open the tank after chilling there is positive pressure.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 19, 2014, 02:06:48 AM
This problem is not a problem.  I'd be more concerned about having lacto infested malt within 500 meters of my fermentor.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: hoser on May 19, 2014, 02:32:25 AM
If you really want to be anal, wort after fermentation is called "beer."  :P

All that being said.  Don't worry about the star san and limit the 02 and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: jeffy on May 19, 2014, 11:42:05 AM
If you really want to be anal, wort after fermentation is called "beer."  :P

All that being said.  Don't worry about the star san and limit the 02 and you'll be fine.

If you really want to be anal, add another "o" in your title.  ;)

I don't think the O2 makes much difference in your case, but I suppose you could add a blanket of CO2 before crashing cooling to limit it.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: erockrph on May 19, 2014, 01:07:25 PM
If you really want to be anal, wort after fermentation is called "beer."  :P

All that being said.  Don't worry about the star san and limit the 02 and you'll be fine.

If you really want to be anal, add another "o" in your title.  ;)

I don't think the O2 makes much difference in your case, but I suppose you could add a blanket of CO2 before crashing cooling to limit it.


...or purge your entire fermentation chamber with CO2 before you crash. I'd recommend wearing a respirator around the brewery if you go this route.
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: porterpounder on May 19, 2014, 02:49:51 PM
I heard somewhere recently of a guy using a cask breather on his fermenter during cold crash to avoid oxygen influx. Seems a bit of overkill, but then again, that's what we do.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 19, 2014, 02:56:50 PM
Typo and incorrect word fixed.  Yike.  I always read a post 2-3 times before I hit 'Post.'

I ferment in a stainless conical - I guess I also should have said that.  I can just put a tri-clamp cap on the lid, but I think it'll just suck air through the gasket.  I hear you all say that it doesn't matter, so on to the next 'system improvement project.'  Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: dkfick on May 19, 2014, 03:01:56 PM
Typo and incorrect word fixed.  Yike.  I always read a post 2-3 times before I hit 'Post.'

I ferment in a stainless conical - I guess I also should have said that.  I can just put a tri-clamp cap on the lid, but I think it'll just suck air through the gasket.  I hear you all say that it doesn't matter, so on to the next 'system improvement project.'  Thanks for the input.
I don't believe it would suck air through the gasket.  Though depending on on thin your conical is I suppose there is a small chance it could implode a bit :D.  I have not done it with my conical (i just let it suck in air and then purge with co2 a day or so later).  With my glass carboys I typically let them have a bit of a vacuum using the breathable silicone bungs (lets things out but not in).  Even if you let in the rush of air when you take the bung out it's still better than the air sitting in there the whole time it's cold crashed...
Title: Re: Am I being to anal?
Post by: denny on May 19, 2014, 03:43:12 PM
You always have the high-tech solution.

Whatever is the most pragmatic is almost always the correct solution.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: troybinso on May 19, 2014, 04:18:09 PM
Typo and incorrect word fixed.  Yike.  I always read a post 2-3 times before I hit 'Post.'

I ferment in a stainless conical - I guess I also should have said that.  I can just put a tri-clamp cap on the lid, but I think it'll just suck air through the gasket.  I hear you all say that it doesn't matter, so on to the next 'system improvement project.'  Thanks for the input.

Can your conical take a little bit of pressure? You could connect you co2 tank at low pressure while chilling and you will have nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: brewinhard on May 20, 2014, 05:04:25 PM
So I too have been wondering about this for a while and have read quite a few threads on the topic.  The obvious real answer to avoid this is simply to close-transfer from primary directly into the keg, purge with CO2 and then cold crash in the keg.  I just see problems with this when using lots of dry hop pellets or even fruit additions in the last fermenter before transferring clogging up the dip tube which is a whole other problem. 

I read that some say simply to place plastic wrap over the mouth of the carboy.  Plastic wrap is gas permeable as far as I know.  Now, how fast and how much gas can permeate through the plastic wrap I am unsure of, especially over the course of a 48 hr. cold crash or so. 

Some say to use foil over the carboy mouth.  Foil will allow oxygen to ingress into the carboy when the temps inside the fermenter headspace drop simply because it is not airtight even with a rubberband. 

I myself have always used an s-shaped airlock filled with a small amount of starsan.  I have not lost any starsan into the fermenter but have noticed "air" being sucked back into the fermenter as the pressures and temps change.  I have not really noticed any major oxidation with my beers using this fashion and wonder how much O2 if any really gets into the beer itself since it is so cold and not typically agitated for the solutions to mix. 

I like the idea of the stopper except that it too will bring in oxygen when the stopper is pulled out prior to a gravity reading or transferring.  The only upside is that it may minimize the time oxygen contacts the beer as you are only spending a handful of minutes getting a gravity reading/setting up your transferring equipment vs. a 48 hrs or so of oxygen ingress.

I do not agree that the CO2 creates a blanket that protects the beer though, simply b/c as the beer cools the CO2 in the headspace is absorbed into the beer which in turn pulls the oxygen in.  I think the AHA needs to conduct a cool experiment on this one simply to see what minimizes oxygen exposure the most ($). 

Maybe a combination of all of these techniques is best and should be addressed in an experiment.  Foil + wrap?  Stopper minimizing oxygen ingress time and allowing the beer to warm up to room temps so O2 doesnt rush in when its removed?

Sorry for the rants...Just had a lot to say on the topic.   Any extra thoughts?
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 20, 2014, 05:10:12 PM
I cold crash in the keg, and when I dry hop I use a nylon paint strainer bag in the keg - no tube clogging.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 20, 2014, 05:51:46 PM
Part of the issue for me is that I cold crash 3 times.  Once when FG is reached to precipitate the yeast, after which I dump the yeast and I raise the temp again to dry hop.  Then crash again to precipitate the hops and dump them.  I have been kegging at that point and then continuing the cold conditioning in the keg... so I guess its 2 times, the second one in conical and keg.

Anyway, I think the solution that I am going to do is this: once FG is reached just use a stopper with a valve stuck in it.  That way I can keep it closed during cooling and when I go to keg I can just attach CO2 and transfer it with a little pressure to the keg.

But again, this appears to be a solution in search of a problem.  But being the CDO type I'm going to do it anyway.  (CDO is the same as OCD except the letters are in the correct order) 
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: dak0415 on May 20, 2014, 06:18:03 PM
Part of the issue for me is that I cold crash 3 times.  Once when FG is reached to precipitate the yeast, after which I dump the yeast and I raise the temp again to dry hop.  Then crash again to precipitate the hops and dump them.  I have been kegging at that point and then continuing the cold conditioning in the keg... so I guess its 2 times, the second one in conical and keg.

Anyway, I think the solution that I am going to do is this: once FG is reached just use a stopper with a valve stuck in it.  That way I can keep it closed during cooling and when I go to keg I can just attach CO2 and transfer it with a little pressure to the keg.

But again, this appears to be a solution in search of a problem.  But being the CDO type I'm going to do it anyway.  (CDO is the same as OCD except the letters are in the correct order)
Oooo.  I like the stopper with a valve idea!
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: narcout on May 20, 2014, 07:19:14 PM
I don't think this is really much of an issue, but since I ferment in 10 gallon corny kegs, I just pop the airlock (tubing attached to a gas disconnect) off before cold crashing, let a small vacuum form as the beer chills, and then pump a bit of CO2 in through the gas post.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: narvin on May 20, 2014, 08:35:00 PM
You're adding just as much air when you open and throw in the dry hops.  I just don't worry about it until it's time to rack, and then I make sure the receiving keg is fully purged with CO2.

I'd also be careful about using a stopper and creating a vacuum... have you ever seen a commercial fermenter that has imploded?  Not a pretty sight.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: denny on May 20, 2014, 08:43:38 PM
I read that some say simply to place plastic wrap over the mouth of the carboy.  Plastic wrap is gas permeable as far as I know.  Now, how fast and how much gas can permeate through the plastic wrap I am unsure of, especially over the course of a 48 hr. cold crash or so. 

Some say to use foil over the carboy mouth.  Foil will allow oxygen to ingress into the carboy when the temps inside the fermenter headspace drop simply because it is not airtight even with a rubberband.

I appreciate your reply, but have you ever tried either of those?  Despite the theoreticals, they work great.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: brewinhard on May 20, 2014, 11:16:05 PM
I have not tried either of those Denny.  I do know many who swear by them.  I guess I am still trying to figure out how they could be better than simply using a one-piece airlock.  Do you agree that plastic wrap is probably gas permeable and that oxygen can enter underneath the foil as the temps inside the headspace in the fermenter cool down and get sucked in?

I think the real issue is this - is the amount of oxygen that ingresses with any of these techniques something to worry about, or is it negligible and not worth bothering over?  A dissolved O2 meter would be really handy for this! 
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: gmac on May 20, 2014, 11:32:46 PM
I read that some say simply to place plastic wrap over the mouth of the carboy.  Plastic wrap is gas permeable as far as I know.  Now, how fast and how much gas can permeate through the plastic wrap I am unsure of, especially over the course of a 48 hr. cold crash or so. 

Some say to use foil over the carboy mouth.  Foil will allow oxygen to ingress into the carboy when the temps inside the fermenter headspace drop simply because it is not airtight even with a rubberband.

I appreciate your reply, but have you ever tried either of those?  Despite the theoreticals, they work great.

I'm with you. I'm a foil topper and no issues. But I often think that perhaps I'm not worrying enough....
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 21, 2014, 12:45:48 AM
You're adding just as much air when you open and throw in the dry hops.  I just don't worry about it until it's time to rack, and then I make sure the receiving keg is fully purged with CO2.

I'd also be careful about using a stopper and creating a vacuum... have you ever seen a commercial fermenter that has imploded?  Not a pretty sight.

No doubt.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: philm63 on May 21, 2014, 01:03:43 AM
Anal? Do you purge your racking cane with CO2 like I do? Now THAT's anal!

Oh, and the foil on the carboy has worked for me just fine. I pull the airlock, shoot a little CO2 into the carboy before crashing and hit it with the foil - never a problem that I could detect.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 21, 2014, 01:07:45 AM
+1.  And FWIW, that's why I rack into a purged keg, dry hop a week @ room temp, and then cold crash under force carbing pressure - no rush of air occurs inward until the keg's empty, .
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 21, 2014, 01:37:09 AM
Try the newly invented Klickitat Jim method. Inspired by the blowing CO2 comment.

Near the end of active fermentation stretch a large balloon over the airlock. When full of CO2 and fermentation is done, cold crash. Any shrinkage should be compensated for by the positive CO2 pressure in the balloon.

Of course all of this must be done in a 100% CO2 purged room.


BTW, I don't do this nor do I worry about room air touching the surface of my beer. Do I splash it around or blow bubbles through it? No, but why would I need to?
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 21, 2014, 03:13:16 AM
You are clearly on the right track Jim.  Now I need to buy a scuba breather and purge my garage with CO2 before a cold crash.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: ynotbrusum on May 21, 2014, 11:06:45 AM
My takeaway from this is that doing something is better than doing nothing, but don't go beyond your means in worrying about it.  I have racked to purged keg as my SOP for quite a while, but now I have to consider purging my auto siphon....I recall Charlie Papazian recommending a tube of water to start the siphon - dumping this into an empty pail, then letting the beer flow into your bottles when bottling.  Maybe that's another way to go with kegs, too.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 21, 2014, 11:18:11 AM
My takeaway from this is that doing something is better than doing nothing, but don't go beyond your means in worrying about it. 

^^THIS^^.    Same here.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: brewinhard on May 21, 2014, 11:17:23 PM
My takeaway from this is that doing something is better than doing nothing, but don't go beyond your means in worrying about it.  I have racked to purged keg as my SOP for quite a while, but now I have to consider purging my auto siphon....I recall Charlie Papazian recommending a tube of water to start the siphon - dumping this into an empty pail, then letting the beer flow into your bottles when bottling.  Maybe that's another way to go with kegs, too.

Your true best bet is to push the finished beer closed transfer with CO2 directly from the primary into the liquid out post of the corny keg.  With this technique all transfer lines are purged with CO2 before beer enters them.

I do like Jim's idea with the balloon though.  Kind of cool...
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 22, 2014, 12:54:46 AM
Not original. My pappy used to start his mead with a blowoff, and once the bubbles quit he'd put this huge necked balloon over the top of the carboy. Balloon would slowly fill and when it stopped and started sagging it was done.

That was about 1974...
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: erockrph on May 22, 2014, 01:30:09 AM
Not original. My pappy used to start his mead with a blowoff, and once the bubbles quit he'd put this huge necked balloon over the top of the carboy. Balloon would slowly fill and when it stopped and started sagging it was done.

That was about 1974...

It's called a condom, Jim...
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 22, 2014, 02:42:38 AM
Oh, cool. I've never seen one before.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 22, 2014, 03:30:32 AM
You're adding just as much air when you open and throw in the dry hops.  I just don't worry about it until it's time to rack, and then I make sure the receiving keg is fully purged with CO2.

I'd also be careful about using a stopper and creating a vacuum... have you ever seen a commercial fermenter that has imploded?  Not a pretty sight.

This is illustrative. Steam cleaned, then the valve was shut, cooled off, Kablamo!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l0K62n8B4
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 22, 2014, 02:02:47 PM
Try the newly invented Klickitat Jim method. Inspired by the blowing CO2 comment.

Near the end of active fermentation stretch a large balloon over the airlock. When full of CO2 and fermentation is done, cold crash. Any shrinkage should be compensated for by the positive CO2 pressure in the balloon.

Of course all of this must be done in a 100% CO2 purged room.


BTW, I don't do this nor do I worry about room air touching the surface of my beer. Do I splash it around or blow bubbles through it? No, but why would I need to?

Some guy on-line (there's always someone, right) has rigged up a system like this where you collect the CO2 generated from fermentation and use it to carbonate.  My recollection (its been years since I saw the website) is that he modified a bicycle pump to push the CO2 back into whatever vessel he was carbonating in. Had to be some kind of keg, but like I said it was years ago.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 22, 2014, 02:06:17 PM


This is illustrative. Steam cleaned, then the valve was shut, cooled off, Kablamo!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h5l0K62n8B4

Whoa, that's impressive !
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 22, 2014, 02:08:04 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: denny on May 22, 2014, 03:02:51 PM
Do you agree that plastic wrap is probably gas permeable and that oxygen can enter underneath the foil as the temps inside the headspace in the fermenter cool down and get sucked in?

I think the real issue is this - is the amount of oxygen that ingresses with any of these techniques something to worry about, or is it negligible and not worth bothering over?  A dissolved O2 meter would be really handy for this!

That's the point.  I can't say that there's oxygen ingress with either method becasue I've never seen the effects of it using those methods.  That means that either it doesn't happen, or that the effects are so slight as to be discountable.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: beersk on May 22, 2014, 05:13:21 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
That's interesting. The coolest thing I learned on my recent tour of the Sierra Nevada brewery is that they capture their co2 from fermentation, so they went from 4 trucks a week of co2 to 4 trucks a year. It's a fascinating idea and I wish us homebrewers could have something like that so we could limit the amount of co2 we have to buy. I think it'd be a bit pricey and maybe too complicated for me.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 22, 2014, 05:16:50 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
That's interesting. The coolest thing I learned on my recent tour of the Sierra Nevada brewery is that they capture their co2 from fermentation, so they went from 4 trucks a week of co2 to 4 trucks a year. It's a fascinating idea and I wish us homebrewers could have something like that so we could limit the amount of co2 we have to buy. I think it'd be a bit pricey and maybe too complicated for me.

I'm not spending enough on CO2 to make this worthwhile.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: beersk on May 22, 2014, 05:18:10 PM
I suppose that's true. Just be nice to not have to worry about wasting co2 or using too much on whatever. I guess it's not a huge deal either way.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 22, 2014, 05:24:11 PM
I don't mean to be so dismissive.  I think it's a pretty cool idea and I'm impressed that someone put the time and effort into engineering a way to recover and reuse the gas.  Hell, I remembered the website from 10 years or so ago.

I only have time and energy for so much, though.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: Stevie on May 22, 2014, 05:24:59 PM
I know of a few breweries that capture their co2. No idea how widespread it is.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 22, 2014, 05:27:37 PM
SN has been out front on green brewing for a long time. All the better reason to like them.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: morticaixavier on May 22, 2014, 06:02:31 PM
SN has been out front on green brewing for a long time. All the better reason to like them.
I suspect it's less about money and more about this for SN. I'm sure over time the system would pay for itself but that's not the main goal.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: denny on May 22, 2014, 06:34:11 PM
I'm not spending enough on CO2 to make this worthwhile.

I agree.  I've got a 20 lb. tank that I get filled once a year, sometimes twice.  At $15 a pop, it's not worth my effort to do anything more difficult.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: denny on May 22, 2014, 06:35:20 PM
SN has been out front on green brewing for a long time. All the better reason to like them.
I suspect it's less about money and more about this for SN. I'm sure over time the system would pay for itself but that's not the main goal.

They have several things, like their composter, that will never see a financial payback.  It's more about their philosophy.
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 23, 2014, 12:46:16 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
That's interesting. The coolest thing I learned on my recent tour of the Sierra Nevada brewery is that they capture their co2 from fermentation, so they went from 4 trucks a week of co2 to 4 trucks a year. It's a fascinating idea and I wish us homebrewers could have something like that so we could limit the amount of co2 we have to buy. I think it'd be a bit pricey and maybe too complicated for me.

At beer camp they pointed out that the esters and alcohol has to be removed to get the purity of CO2 they need ( we know that air locks don't just smell like CO2).
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 23, 2014, 12:49:45 AM
I know of a few breweries that capture their co2. No idea how widespread it is.
It is very widespread in Germany, as the recovered CO2 can be used for carbonation under the Reinheitsgebot.

Where do you think breweries like Sierra Nevada sourced the equipment from?
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on May 23, 2014, 03:15:50 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
That's interesting. The coolest thing I learned on my recent tour of the Sierra Nevada brewery is that they capture their co2 from fermentation, so they went from 4 trucks a week of co2 to 4 trucks a year. It's a fascinating idea and I wish us homebrewers could have something like that so we could limit the amount of co2 we have to buy. I think it'd be a bit pricey and maybe too complicated for me.

At beer camp they pointed out that the esters and alcohol has to be removed to get the purity of CO2 they need ( we know that air locks don't just smell like CO2).

This one time, at beer camp...
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: yso191 on May 23, 2014, 07:23:13 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/carbonation/PumpSystem.htm

Here's the CO2 recovery and pump thing.
That's interesting. The coolest thing I learned on my recent tour of the Sierra Nevada brewery is that they capture their co2 from fermentation, so they went from 4 trucks a week of co2 to 4 trucks a year. It's a fascinating idea and I wish us homebrewers could have something like that so we could limit the amount of co2 we have to buy. I think it'd be a bit pricey and maybe too complicated for me.

At beer camp they pointed out that the esters and alcohol has to be removed to get the purity of CO2 they need ( we know that air locks don't just smell like CO2).

This one time, at beer camp...

Jim said, "Here.  Hold my beer and watch this."
Title: Re: Am I being too anal?
Post by: klickitat jim on June 02, 2014, 01:47:56 AM
Ive done that