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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 03:23:01 PM

Title: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 03:23:01 PM
I really love this style, well drinking it, and want to brew it as authentic as possible. From the history ive read Baltic came along when porters from london where being shipped east.  They decided to make their own and use the yeast at hand, Lager!  So, in trying to do this im having a hard time finding what malt supplier to use.

Do I go with a german style malt, bohemian malt, briess, muntons, or grambrinus.     I know you can mix and match but I really want to get authentic as possible. 

I see all the recipes out there that say this and that however, I found and tasted some beers that when your trying to build something thats authentic you need to have grains from them as well. 

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: erockrph on May 21, 2014, 04:32:28 PM
I haven't brewed this style myself yet, but I would certainly choose high-quality continental malts (Best, Weyermann, etc.). And you don't necessarily need a lager strain to be authentic on this style. I know Sinebrychoff uses an ale strain for theirs (allegedly smuggled back from England), and that is one of the best examples of the style, IMO. I'd just stay on the cool side with your fermentation if you go the ale route.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 05:02:59 PM
I haven't brewed this style myself yet, but I would certainly choose high-quality continental malts (Best, Weyermann, etc.). And you don't necessarily need a lager strain to be authentic on this style. I know Sinebrychoff uses an ale strain for theirs (allegedly smuggled back from England), and that is one of the best examples of the style, IMO. I'd just stay on the cool side with your fermentation if you go the ale route.

Ive read that using ale yeast for this, where can I get my hands on Sinebrychoff!  lol,  Thanks for the info

Have a question about crystal malts and darker malts.

Is there a difference between domestic crystal and let say english crystal and what maltster produce english crystal?

With respect to dark malts would there be a difference of using domestic over continental?
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: Stevie on May 21, 2014, 05:18:12 PM
Malts from one country to the next, or one maltster to the next, are as different as any other product from different sources. You need to find which you prefer and run with it.

Pickles are pickles, but a pickle made in Germany is different than a pickle made here. A vlassic kosher pickle is different from a mt olive kosher pickle.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 05:22:16 PM
Malts from one country to the next, or one maltster to the next, are as different as any other product from different sources. You need to find which you prefer and run with it.

Pickles are pickles, but a pickle made in Germany is different than a pickle made here. A vlassic kosher pickle is different from a mt olive kosher pickle.

Thanks Steve!  This helps keep things with the same brand as possible. 
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 21, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
I haven't brewed this style myself yet, but I would certainly choose high-quality continental malts (Best, Weyermann, etc.). And you don't necessarily need a lager strain to be authentic on this style. I know Sinebrychoff uses an ale strain for theirs (allegedly smuggled back from England), and that is one of the best examples of the style, IMO. I'd just stay on the cool side with your fermentation if you go the ale route.

Ive read that using ale yeast for this, where can I get my hands on Sinebrychoff!  lol,  Thanks for the info

Have a question about crystal malts and darker malts.

Is there a difference between domestic crystal and let say english crystal and what maltster produce english crystal?

With respect to dark malts would there be a difference of using domestic over continental?

Dark malts can be 100L different in color from on maltster to the next.

For a Baltic Porter I would go with German malt for base and some specialty, and English dark roast malts. I don't think you will get the same flavors from domestic base malts.

You might also consider some molasses in small quantities, or make your own invert III (recipes for boiling sugar to the right color are on the net).
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 06:43:26 PM
I haven't brewed this style myself yet, but I would certainly choose high-quality continental malts (Best, Weyermann, etc.). And you don't necessarily need a lager strain to be authentic on this style. I know Sinebrychoff uses an ale strain for theirs (allegedly smuggled back from England), and that is one of the best examples of the style, IMO. I'd just stay on the cool side with your fermentation if you go the ale route.

Ive read that using ale yeast for this, where can I get my hands on Sinebrychoff!  lol,  Thanks for the info

Have a question about crystal malts and darker malts.

Is there a difference between domestic crystal and let say english crystal and what maltster produce english crystal?

With respect to dark malts would there be a difference of using domestic over continental?

Dark malts can be 100L different in color from on maltster to the next.

For a Baltic Porter I would go with German malt for base and some specialty, and English dark roast malts. I don't think you will get the same flavors from domestic base malts.

You might also consider some molasses in small quantities, or make your own invert III (recipes for boiling sugar to the right color are on the net).

molasses?  So far the recipes Ive seen no have that included.  Lets say if I were going to use molasses what brand? 

So consensus would be German pale malt and some specialty malt like special B, Carafa.  Dark roast malt like crystal and chocolate for English?
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: kmccaf on May 21, 2014, 07:04:00 PM
I would a "Black Strap" version of molasses, and blend it with an invert sugar (or use Lyle's Golden Syrup).

This site has the dilution method for it:
http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert/comment-page-1
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: jeffy on May 21, 2014, 07:19:28 PM
I can't remember any molasses flavor in the commercial Baltic Porters I have tried.
I'd go with at least a little pilsner malt as that is a flavor I have often found in them.
Some dark chocolate malt and maybe a little chocolate wheat sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: ultravista on May 21, 2014, 07:55:22 PM
Sinebrychoff Porter clone
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3010-sinebrychoff-porter-clone
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 21, 2014, 09:12:06 PM
Sinebrychoff Porter clone
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3010-sinebrychoff-porter-clone

Thanks for the clone!! 

Have question about water now, I use strictly RO water would one need to add anything for this clone???
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: morticaixavier on May 21, 2014, 09:31:34 PM
Sinebrychoff Porter clone
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3010-sinebrychoff-porter-clone

Thanks for the clone!! 

Have question about water now, I use strictly RO water would one need to add anything for this clone???

all grain? or Extract?

If extract no, RO is just fine. If all grain download bru'n water and input the recipe. I suspect you will need to a) reserve dark malts for the very end of the mash to avoid driving your pH too low or b) use some pickling lime or baking soda to manipulate your mash pH.

Additionally you will need at least some calcium.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 21, 2014, 10:07:49 PM
I haven't brewed this style myself yet, but I would certainly choose high-quality continental malts (Best, Weyermann, etc.). And you don't necessarily need a lager strain to be authentic on this style. I know Sinebrychoff uses an ale strain for theirs (allegedly smuggled back from England), and that is one of the best examples of the style, IMO. I'd just stay on the cool side with your fermentation if you go the ale route.

Ive read that using ale yeast for this, where can I get my hands on Sinebrychoff!  lol,  Thanks for the info

Have a question about crystal malts and darker malts.

Is there a difference between domestic crystal and let say english crystal and what maltster produce english crystal?

With respect to dark malts would there be a difference of using domestic over continental?

Dark malts can be 100L different in color from on maltster to the next.

For a Baltic Porter I would go with German malt for base and some specialty, and English dark roast malts. I don't think you will get the same flavors from domestic base malts.

You might also consider some molasses in small quantities, or make your own invert III (recipes for boiling sugar to the right color are on the net).

molasses?  So far the recipes Ive seen no have that included.  Lets say if I were going to use molasses what brand? 

So consensus would be German pale malt and some specialty malt like special B, Carafa.  Dark roast malt like crystal and chocolate for English?

A guy named Gordon Strong had some in his BP recipe found in his book.

I used unsulfured first running molasses in one I made. Blackstrap can be a little strong for me.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 21, 2014, 10:15:01 PM
+1 to avoiding sulfured molasses. And I agree that Blackstrap gets harsh pretty easily.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: erockrph on May 22, 2014, 01:46:44 AM
Dark malts can be 100L different in color from on maltster to the next.

For a Baltic Porter I would go with German malt for base and some specialty, and English dark roast malts. I don't think you will get the same flavors from domestic base malts.

You might also consider some molasses in small quantities, or make your own invert III (recipes for boiling sugar to the right color are on the net).

Agreed on the malt selection - German Pils/Vienna/Munich and CaraMunich would be the most appropriate choices, along with English Chocolate and/or Black Malt. English pale and crystal malt have a distinct flavor that would really push the beer more towards a London Porter in style.

I like the molasses idea a lot. I might have to take a stab at a BP this fall. Thinking a relatively clean English Ale yeast, WLP013 maybe.

+1 to avoiding sulfured molasses. And I agree that Blackstrap gets harsh pretty easily.

+2 - I like the Blackstrap cut with Lyle's idea..
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 22, 2014, 02:35:04 AM
You need to keep roast down. A lot of Authentic Baltic Porters are more brown then black. Dehusk Carafa Special can help you there.


Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: Mark G on May 22, 2014, 03:35:55 AM
If you want authentic, your base malts should be mostly Munich/Vienna, with some Pilsner. Then add some darker crystal to give a bit of dark fruit character. Like Thirsty_Monk said, keep the roast down. Use lager yeast. My recipe is:
61% Munich
31% Pilsner
5% Special B
2% Chocolate
1% Carafa III
OG 1.088
40 IBUs of noble hops
California Steam yeast at 60°F
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: majorvices on May 22, 2014, 12:59:47 PM
I make mine more like a high gravity schwarz bier but with a little chocolate malt. Big Munich malt flavors, keep the crystal malt low (but a little 40l Cara Munich is nice). Lager or very clean fermenting ale yeast - wy1007 is really nice.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 22, 2014, 03:02:25 PM
Sinebrychoff Porter clone
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3010-sinebrychoff-porter-clone

Thanks for the clone!! 

Have question about water now, I use strictly RO water would one need to add anything for this clone???

all grain? or Extract?

If extract no, RO is just fine. If all grain download bru'n water and input the recipe. I suspect you will need to a) reserve dark malts for the very end of the mash to avoid driving your pH too low or b) use some pickling lime or baking soda to manipulate your mash pH.

Additionally you will need at least some calcium.

All Grain.  Found the site thanks I might be back for some more help on this one.  Looks very over whelming.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: denny on May 22, 2014, 03:06:39 PM
http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/12CBalticPorter
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: eluterio on May 22, 2014, 03:12:09 PM
Dark malts can be 100L different in color from on maltster to the next.

For a Baltic Porter I would go with German malt for base and some specialty, and English dark roast malts. I don't think you will get the same flavors from domestic base malts.

You might also consider some molasses in small quantities, or make your own invert III (recipes for boiling sugar to the right color are on the net).

Agreed on the malt selection - German Pils/Vienna/Munich and CaraMunich would be the most appropriate choices, along with English Chocolate and/or Black Malt. English pale and crystal malt have a distinct flavor that would really push the beer more towards a London Porter in style.

I like the molasses idea a lot. I might have to take a stab at a BP this fall. Thinking a relatively clean English Ale yeast, WLP013 maybe.

+1 to avoiding sulfured molasses. And I agree that Blackstrap gets harsh pretty easily.

+2 - I like the Blackstrap cut with Lyle's idea..

Guys thanks for the input and just to be clear, I will be asking more question in the near future.  I have a challenge going on with a very experienced home brewer, basically my mentor, and I told him im going to brew a better baltic porter.  I plan on using wyeast 2124 and harvest this from the Munich Helles Ill do before hand. 


I was leaning towards the MO by  Bairds and use a little vienna as the base.  From what you guys suggest use German base malts and use english specialty malts.  I have Best Maltz pils and vienna on hand would this be fine or should I seek out german 2 row? 
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: erockrph on May 22, 2014, 10:48:59 PM
Best Malz is high-quality German Malt. I think you're good.
Title: Re: Need help for a authentic baltic porter.
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on May 22, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
2124 is great too. You still need more then 50% Munich malt. Preferably dark continental Munich about 10L.