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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: nicosan1 on June 22, 2014, 06:17:56 PM

Title: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: nicosan1 on June 22, 2014, 06:17:56 PM
Am planning on brewing a West-Coast style IPA later on this summer.  I generally rely on either Wyeast or Safale yeasts and in doing IPAs Ive done US-05 or Denny's Favorite and 1056 in the past. Was wondering what people's experience has been with 1272 as an IPA yeast.  Like the flocculation, would like a bit of a brighter beer that is pretty attentuative.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: duboman on June 22, 2014, 08:05:51 PM
Others may differ but personally i found it to be less attenuating and slightly fruitier even at lower temps, wasn't a fan but YMMV.

I prefer 05 and 1056 and the cleaner finish to serve the flavors more from the hops than the yeast
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: klickitat jim on June 22, 2014, 08:19:51 PM
I tried it back when I was starting out and didn't see enough difference clarity wise, which was why I tried it. If I recall it was even fruitier than 1056. I didn't see a need to try it again
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: Kinetic on June 22, 2014, 08:28:25 PM
I used it once and concluded the same as the previous posts.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: kmccaf on June 22, 2014, 09:02:53 PM
I agree with the others, but personally quite enjoyed it. Very good in a porter, and rye IPA.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 22, 2014, 09:44:40 PM
1272 is allegedly the Anchor Liberty strain, and that is not a terribly fruity beer. I've used 1272 cool (~ 63F) and felt that the fruitiness was minimal. But I do love the neutral nature of 1056 (and similar). For American styles I want the yeast to do its job and stay out of the way of the malt and hops.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on June 22, 2014, 11:25:11 PM
Wyeast 1272 is Siebel Bry 97.   Wyeast 1056 is Siebel Bry 96 (which was originally a Ballantine strain).  Both strains are available in dry form.  US-05 is Bry 96.  Danstar Bry 97 is Siebel Bry 97.  Lallemand owns the Siebel Institute of Technology.   Bry 97 is a slow starter, but it produces a beautiful beer that is more malt forward than Bry 96.  If using dry Bry 97, it is important to pitch at least 1 gram per liter (i.e., two packages in a 5-gallon batch).
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: dannyjed on June 23, 2014, 12:03:27 AM
I've gotten some tartness from 1272.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: nicosan1 on June 23, 2014, 11:14:13 AM
Would perhaps Wyeast 1335 or 1450 be better alternatives?  I've used Denny's for a Black IPA before, and it came out well, just want to get something attentuates well but is a bit easier to cold crash and get some brightness.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: duboman on June 23, 2014, 11:30:58 AM
Perhaps you can post your recipe and process, attenuation is related to process and ingredients as well as the yeast being pitched.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: nicosan1 on June 23, 2014, 11:39:00 AM


Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 11.5lb
Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) 12oz
Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) 12oz

Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus (CTZ) [15.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins)
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 15.0 mins)
Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min
Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 5.0 min
Amarillo [9.20 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min
Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min

%/IBU
-
88.5 % 5.8 %
5.8 % 71.0 IBUs -
-
-
5.5 IBUs 5.9 IBUs 8.3 IBUs 7.3 IBUs 0.0 IBUs 0.0 IBUs
Inventory
0.00 gal 0.0 oz
0.0 oz
0.0 oz 0.00 oz 0.00 Items 0.00 tsp 0.00 g 8.00 oz 0.00 oz 0.00 oz 0.00 oz 8.00 oz 0.00 oz
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: duboman on June 23, 2014, 12:51:46 PM
I would try to mash between 148 and 150 to produce a more fermentable wort and if you want you can also add 1lb of sugar to the recipe to help dry the beer out. If you don't want to raise the ABV you can simply reduce the amount of base malt to a corresponding level to account for the bump in the sugar addition.

This should produce a a nice dry well attenuated beer.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: udubdawg on June 23, 2014, 02:51:39 PM
my go-to yeast for most American Ales, especially Cat 10 but I use it in 14B as well.  Love it.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: svejk on June 23, 2014, 04:27:33 PM
Several years ago I did a bunch of split batches to narrow down my preference, and 1272 ended up being my go-to IPA yeast.  If you're up for it, I highly recommend splitting your batch and try half with 1272 and the other half with 1056 (or another of your regular yeasts) and see what you think.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on June 23, 2014, 08:43:46 PM
If you want clearer beer, why not fine post-ferment?

Use the yeast that suits the beer / your process, then clear it up after you've made a tasty beer.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on June 23, 2014, 08:56:42 PM
I prefer Bry 97 (Wyeast 1272 and White Labs WLP051) to Bry 96 (Wyeast 1056 and White Labs WLP001) as well. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: chumley on June 23, 2014, 10:57:47 PM
Ditto.  BRY 97 has become my go to yeast for IPAs.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: JKBREWINGJPKT on October 14, 2015, 09:46:27 PM
Wyeast 1272 is Siebel Bry 97.   Wyeast 1056 is Siebel Bry 96 (which was originally a Ballantine strain).  Both strains are available in dry form.  US-05 is Bry 96.  Danstar Bry 97 is Siebel Bry 97.  Lallemand owns the Siebel Institute of Technology.   Bry 97 is a slow starter, but it produces a beautiful beer that is more malt forward than Bry 96.  If using dry Bry 97, it is important to pitch at least 1 gram per liter (i.e., two packages in a 5-gallon batch).

How slow is this known to start?  I made a 1L starter at 1.038 gravity with a stir plate from a Wyeast 1272 pack, had good krausen/foam/activity for about a day and kept it spinning for two days (because of a delay in brew day due to a unexpected schedule conflict) then crashed in fridge for about 6 hours.  Brewed a Pale Ale at 1.048 OG (that had a super stuck mash --at 154 degrees-- due to a lot of rye and not nearly enough rice hulls, leading to stirring the mash and a cloudy wort), decanted the starter and let it warm up a bit, pitched the yeast and have no bubbles in the blow off after 40 hours.  Did I screw up my yeast and/or wort somewhere along the way or will this take off an be ok?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 14, 2015, 09:53:09 PM
BRY 97 is slow to start, and the use of a stir plate did not improve the situation.  Stir plates can stress yeast cells.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: Al Hounos on October 15, 2015, 04:44:24 AM
Good timing! Two days ago I brewed a pale ale with a smack pack of this (11L/3gal, 1.046, didn't feel a starter was totally necessary) and it was bubbling away slowly but steadily at 24hrs at 18C ambient.

Skimmed off the brown head and I'm going to top crop directly into an IPA I'm making today. (3gal, 1.060). First time using this yeast and first time top cropping, so I'm pretty excited. Will update in a few weeks!
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 01:28:35 PM
Skimmed off the brown head and I'm going to top crop directly into an IPA I'm making today. (3gal, 1.060). First time using this yeast and first time top cropping, so I'm pretty excited. Will update in a few weeks!

You need to make certain that you are skimming yeast and not just foam.   Foam contains very few yeast cells.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: hopshead on October 15, 2015, 01:29:48 PM
I recently brewed with the White Labs version, WLP051.  Two weeks ago I made a shaken not stirred starter, and pitched it to an American Stout about 20 hours later.  I top cropped the yeast about 30 hours after pitch.  I will make another starter to go on that harvest and pitch an IPA that I will brew this weekend.  I am very excited to brew this IPA with the second generation of this yeast.  I haven't kegged the stout yet, but I am hopeful it will be great.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: Al Hounos on October 15, 2015, 01:59:43 PM
Skimmed off the brown head and I'm going to top crop directly into an IPA I'm making today. (3gal, 1.060). First time using this yeast and first time top cropping, so I'm pretty excited. Will update in a few weeks!

You need to make certain that you are skimming yeast and not just foam.   Foam contains very few yeast cells.


I was worried about that, so I pulled about 300ml of liquid as well. Hopefully that will be sufficient.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I top cropped the yeast about 30 hours after pitch.  I will make another starter to go on that harvest and pitch an IPA that I will brew this weekend.

How much thick slurry did you get obtain when the culture settled down?  If you cropped a little green beer with the yeast and you have at least 70 milliliters of slurry (preferably 100ml), you are good to go without making a starter.  Top-cropped yeast is basically all yeast after the brown head has been removed.  A milliliter of pure yeast contains upwards of 3 billion cells.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: hopshead on October 15, 2015, 02:11:26 PM
I top cropped the yeast about 30 hours after pitch.  I will make another starter to go on that harvest and pitch an IPA that I will brew this weekend.

How much thick slurry did you get obtain when the culture settled down?  If you cropped a little green beer with the yeast and you have at least 70 milliliters of slurry (preferably 100ml), you are good to go without making a starter.  Top-cropped yeast is basically all yeast after the brown head has been removed.  A milliliter of pure yeast contains upwards of 3 billion cells.

I will take a picture of it when I get home and post here.  I measured the "crop" by weight and collected 71 grams then added a little bit (maybe a pint or so) of "green beer."  I let that ferment out for 4 days or so (probably too long, I just forgot about it) just so the yeast is stored under beer.  It has been sitting in my fridge for about a week now.  I bet that there is plenty of yeast for the next batch already in what was collected, but I am guessing that I need to wake up the yeast and get them eating at sugars in the starter just before I pitch the next batch. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: denny on October 15, 2015, 03:41:23 PM
Mark, could you define "slow starter"?  I haven't used 1272 in years but I don't recall it being any slower than anything else.  So I'm wondering if slow starts are normal for me.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 04:27:41 PM
By that statement, I meant that the amount of time between pitching and signs of visible fermentation is usually longer than normal with Siebel BRY 97 (a.k.a. Wyeast 1272, White Labs WLP051, and Lallemand BRY 97).  The liquid cultures do not take as long to get going as the dry offering, but the strain does appear take its sweet old time getting up to speed.   I do not know if BRY 97 experiences a longer than normal lag phase or if the replication period is longer than other strains.  The old thing about BRY 97 is that fermentation is over fairly quickly after visible signs of fermentation appear, which leads me to believe that the strain loses viability faster than other strains.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: Delo on October 15, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
I am more of a lurker than a poster.  I have used BR-97, East Coast Yeast version, on several Ballantine IPAs and Pale ales, and other beers.  Everything I have experienced has been what Mark has posted.  I have pitched it fairly fresh yeast in a low gravity pale ale without a starter and it was slow to take off, like over 24 hrs, but it came out fine. This yeast has become my yeast for ipas, but I prefer more malt taste in my beers or not as neutral as 1056.  Never had a tart or fruity tastes at ferm temps at lower 60s but  I did have a high fermentation temp issue once, in the 70s, and with the combo of hops the beer was a strawberry bomb.  It comes down to a preference thing and in a really hoppy west coast IPA you probably wont notice a difference.  BTW love bobs burgers. 
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: denny on October 15, 2015, 04:56:14 PM
By that statement, I meant that the amount of time between pitching and signs of visible fermentation is usually longer than normal with Siebel BRY 97 (a.k.a. Wyeast 1272, White Labs WLP051, and Lallemand BRY 97).  The liquid cultures do not take as long to get going as the dry offering, but the strain does appear take its sweet old time getting up to speed.   I do not know if BRY 97 experiences a longer than normal lag phase or if the replication period is longer than other strains.  The old thing about BRY 97 is that fermentation is over fairly quickly after visible signs of fermentation appear, which leads me to believe that the strain loses viability faster than other strains.

I guess what I was hoping for was more of a definition of long, short, and normal.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 05:05:48 PM
The East Coast Yeast version is NRRL Y-7408.   Your experience confirms my belief that NRRL 7408 and BRY 97 are the same strain.  The $10,000 question is did G.W. Lange deposit the strains into both collections?  Or did Siebel acquire the strains from the NRRL?  My assumption is that BRY 96 had the lower accession number in the Ballantine collection because the strains appear in the same sequence in the Siebel and NRRL collections.  That ordering is not by chance.

NRRL Y-7407  (Siebel BRY 96)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 2
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Beer pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S renal partial sequences.
 
NRRL Y-7408 (Siebel BRY 97)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 4
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Ale pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S rDNA partial sequences


(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/tonestack/Brewing/BallySrains_zpstxwrxrb9.jpg)
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: a10t2 on October 15, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Mark, could you define "slow starter"?  I haven't used 1272 in years but I don't recall it being any slower than anything else.  So I'm wondering if slow starts are normal for me.

I don't note lag time, but I can't recall ever not seeing active fermentation the next morning. So maybe 18 hours max. I don't brew with other strains nearly as often but I think that's more or less normal for my other ales.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 07:54:24 PM
I do not like using the phrase "lag time" because what most home brewers refer to as lag time is actually composed of the lag phase and the exponential phase.  A fermentation is usually well into the exponential phase before we start seeing signs of fermentation.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: denny on October 15, 2015, 08:22:06 PM
Mark, could you define "slow starter"?  I haven't used 1272 in years but I don't recall it being any slower than anything else.  So I'm wondering if slow starts are normal for me.

I don't note lag time, but I can't recall ever not seeing active fermentation the next morning. So maybe 18 hours max. I don't brew with other strains nearly as often but I think that's more or less normal for my other ales.

Yeah, that's normal for me and about what I recall from 1272.  Not really any different than anything else.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: neddles on October 15, 2015, 09:34:17 PM
Mark, could you define "slow starter"?  I haven't used 1272 in years but I don't recall it being any slower than anything else.  So I'm wondering if slow starts are normal for me.

I don't note lag time, but I can't recall ever not seeing active fermentation the next morning. So maybe 18 hours max. I don't brew with other strains nearly as often but I think that's more or less normal for my other ales.


Yeah, that's normal for me and about what I recall from 1272.  Not really any different than anything else.
+1 Takes off like almost every other yeast I've used.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 15, 2015, 09:45:02 PM
Yeah, that's normal for me and about what I recall from 1272.  Not really any different than anything else.

I think that the difference is due to your proximity to Wyeast.   What I have noticed is that BRY 97 seems to lose viability quicker than other strains.   I have only repitched this strain one time.  The time to active fermentation on the repitch was twelve hours.  The initial time to active fermentation was 26 hours with WLP051 (the same strain).   I did not pitch a huge amount of yeast on the repitch.  I have had BRY 97 dry take over 48 hours to start.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 15, 2015, 09:54:51 PM
Mark, could you define "slow starter"?  I haven't used 1272 in years but I don't recall it being any slower than anything else.  So I'm wondering if slow starts are normal for me.

I don't note lag time, but I can't recall ever not seeing active fermentation the next morning. So maybe 18 hours max. I don't brew with other strains nearly as often but I think that's more or less normal for my other ales.


Yeah, that's normal for me and about what I recall from 1272.  Not really any different than anything else.
+1 Takes off like almost every other yeast I've used.

Agreed. I can't claim to have used BRY97 but 1272 has taken off for me comparable to most any liquid ale culture I've used. I've used it many times.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: dzlater on October 16, 2015, 10:39:21 AM
.............. If using dry Bry 97, it is important to pitch at least 1 gram per liter (i.e., two packages in a 5-gallon batch).

I usde this yeast quite often and am wondering why two packets?
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: klickitat jim on October 16, 2015, 12:48:01 PM
.............. If using dry Bry 97, it is important to pitch at least 1 gram per liter (i.e., two packages in a 5-gallon batch).

I usde this yeast quite often and am wondering why two packets?
Im going to guess the Mark will say due to 50% attrition rate from osmotic pressure of the solute
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: erockrph on October 16, 2015, 12:53:22 PM
.............. If using dry Bry 97, it is important to pitch at least 1 gram per liter (i.e., two packages in a 5-gallon batch).
I usde this yeast quite often and am wondering why two packets?
I missed this statement initially, but that may explain why the dry BRY-97 behaved so well for me. The one time I used it I pitched a full pack into 2 gallons of wort. I was also aware of some issues with lag time, so I went heavy on the oxygen to see if that helped. Fermentation started a little slower than US-05 in a similar batch, but nothing drastic.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: S. cerevisiae on October 16, 2015, 01:45:52 PM
I usde this yeast quite often and am wondering why two packets?

Lallemand suggests a pitching rate of 100 grams per 100 liters, which is a pitching rate of 1 gram per liter.  BRY 97 is the only strain dry strain that I heed their advice because it is such a slow starter.

http://www.danstaryeast.com/system/files/pdfs/tds-bry-97-american-west-coast-yeast-english.pdf?download=1


Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: dilluh98 on October 16, 2015, 03:49:23 PM
I prefer Bry 97 (Wyeast 1272 and White Labs WLP051) to Bry 96 (Wyeast 1056 and White Labs WLP001) as well.

I recently split a batch of a pretty straightforward IPA (based on the BCS AIPA) between WLP051 and WLP090 (which I consider to be WLP001 on steroids). My west coast IPA loving wife enjoyed the WLP090 obviously but she hated the WLP051 and I can’t say I was enamored with it either. This is the first time I’ve brewed with it and it was the first pitch so I’ll hold further judgement until I get to the 2nd and 3rd pitches but it really muted a lot of the flavors and made everything kind of just meld together in a way I don’t like for a standard IPA. I’m thinking of trying it on an APA that’s meant to taste more round and “juicy” so to speak. I think its character might play well there - at least for my tastes.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: hopshead on October 16, 2015, 07:07:55 PM
(http://i62.tinypic.com/sztrtc.jpg)

There is a picture of my top crop plus some beer in a gallon glass jug for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: JKBREWINGJPKT on October 29, 2015, 03:20:21 PM
BRY 97 is slow to start, and the use of a stir plate did not improve the situation.  Stir plates can stress yeast cells.

Well, there is about an inch high krausen ring in the carboy and after the first couple days I noticed that the stopper had been pushed up and wasn't fully seated. So not sure if it was briefly vigorous then lost pressure and had some air leak in and slowed up or what. Never was vigorously bubbling when I observed it but it fermented continuously slowly for two weeks. It has ended up at about 1.017 now so only about 4% but that may be attributable to the mash temp of 154/55ish.  It tastes normal if a bit malty but to be expected with that gravity. Balanced well with hops and dry hopping now so hopefully it worked out ok. Just don't remember fermentation being that slow last time we made this.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: 69franx on October 29, 2015, 08:58:27 PM
If pitching 2 packs of bry97 into 5 gallons and it's a slow starter, is rehydration necessary or recommended? This will be for my attempt at Steele's Ballantine recipe from his book, targeting 1.074 IIRC
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: a10t2 on October 29, 2015, 09:09:18 PM
If pitching 2 packs of bry97 into 5 gallons and it's a slow starter, is rehydration necessary or recommended? This will be for my attempt at Steele's Ballantine recipe from his book, targeting 1.074 IIRC

Necessary, no; recommended, yes. Not much point in doubling up on the pitching rate if you're going to kill off half the cells.
Title: Re: Wyeast 1272 American II
Post by: 69franx on October 29, 2015, 10:30:16 PM
That's what I figured, just making sure