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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: narcout on June 29, 2014, 11:31:41 PM

Title: Iodophor
Post by: narcout on June 29, 2014, 11:31:41 PM
I'm just curious as to whether anybody else here uses Iodophor over Star San. 

I know they both work well, but sometimes I feel like the last homebrewer on the planet who uses this product.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: Stevie on June 30, 2014, 01:50:33 AM
The "older" guys in the club here use iodophor. I'm always a bit surprised.

The club also has a raffle stocked by the LHBS during the monthly meetings. There is always iodophor in the pot and I am shocked how quickly folks choose it.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: ajk on June 30, 2014, 02:10:52 AM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: robb on June 30, 2014, 03:06:34 AM
Came with my first kit 20+ years ago and using it ever since. Never any problems so continue to use. 
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: b-hoppy on June 30, 2014, 03:19:53 AM
I started using it in the early 90's and have ever since.  One reason may be that I found a gallon that was discounted ($5.99 or $6.99) at a farm supply store in about '92 and just ran out a year or so ago.  A little goes a long way when used right!
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: theDarkSide on June 30, 2014, 12:39:07 PM
Still have my first bottle of it from 7 years ago when I switched over to Star San.  You want it?

I didn't care for the smell or the staining of my hoses and equipment.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 30, 2014, 12:55:53 PM


I didn't care for the smell or the staining of my hoses and equipment.

+1
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: denny on June 30, 2014, 02:44:27 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: a10t2 on June 30, 2014, 03:18:18 PM
I don't like the idea of being entirely dependent on an acid-based sanitizer given that the most common brewery contaminants are acid-producing bacteria.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: chumley on June 30, 2014, 04:21:09 PM
I use it occasionally as it is is cheaper than Star San. I use it for uses where I dispose the sanitizing solution after use, such as sanitizing the counterflow chiller.

But then again, I still use bleach.  ;D
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: chezteth on June 30, 2014, 04:55:52 PM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

+1
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: erockrph on June 30, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 30, 2014, 07:47:44 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.

+1.  I make 5 gallons of StarSan at a time, then fill a spray bottle from that to spray on beer and gas posts, QDs, etc.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: Jeff M on June 30, 2014, 07:54:34 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.

+1.  I make 5 gallons of StarSan at a time, then fill a spray bottle from that to spray on beer and gas posts, QDs, etc.

I KNEW I bought that 3 pack of spray bottles for a reason. Thanks!

Jeff
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: denny on June 30, 2014, 07:55:08 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.

So do I, but for some reason I always pull out the Iodophor.  Dunno why.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: denny on June 30, 2014, 07:56:16 PM
I KNEW I bought that 3 pack of spray bottles for a reason. Thanks!

Jeff

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: Stevie on June 30, 2014, 08:06:22 PM
I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.

So do I, but for some reason I always pull out the Iodophor.  Dunno why.


Old habits die hard.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 30, 2014, 09:11:23 PM

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.

+1 to that. Distilled isn't cheap but it's worth the investment for Starsan - mine stays clear for a long time (upwards of a year) with good pH, at least as measured by strips.

Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 30, 2014, 09:21:07 PM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: erockrph on July 01, 2014, 02:58:46 PM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?
While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: brewinhard on July 01, 2014, 07:54:19 PM
Starsan for sanitizing carboys and plastic hoses/tubing/siphoning equipment and bottles.  For some weird reason, I use Iodophor to sanitize kegs. 
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 01, 2014, 09:34:54 PM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?
While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.

Sorry, should've been more clear. I get all that about Starsan - I was looking for info on whether there is really anything concrete to the 'myth' of needing to change sanitizers (any sanitizers) periodically, to eradicate organisms that (in theory) could become 'resistant'.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: BrewArk on July 01, 2014, 11:24:38 PM
I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?
While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.

Sorry, should've been more clear. I get all that about Starsan - I was looking for info on whether there is really anything concrete to the 'myth' of needing to change sanitizers (any sanitizers) periodically, to eradicate organisms that (in theory) could become 'resistant'.
Short answer is no.  There's a huge difference between sanitizers and antibiotics.  Antibiotics work within a living organism and have to be efficacious without killing the host, so they have to be limited in their killing.  Sanitizers don't have those limits.  They are rinsed away (or diluted to the point they are harmless). 
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 01, 2014, 11:36:40 PM

Short answer is no.  There's a huge difference between sanitizers and antibiotics.  Antibiotics work within a living organism and have to be efficacious without killing the host, so they have to be limited in their killing.  Sanitizers don't have those limits.  They are rinsed away (or diluted to the point they are harmless). 

That had always been my feeling. But I'd heard that idea floated around here a few times (and other places as well), and being OCD about sanitation, I'd always wondered if there were some info I wasn't privy to. OTOH, I've brewed consistently clean beer for over 20 years, so that's gotta say something. Thanks !
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: a10t2 on July 02, 2014, 12:11:48 AM
The idea isn't necessarily that microorganisms could mutate to become "resistant" in the same sense that they could to antibiotics - although given sufficient timescales I could actually see that being a concern. My main concern is instead that there are several common microorganisms which can survive the pH at which anionic sanitizers are typically used (2-3, roughly). As erock pointed out, there is also a surfactant component acting to "bind up" the little guys, but without a thorough rinse I don't feel comfortable relying on that to totally rid the tank of contaminants. I fully acknowledge that this is probably needless worrying.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 02, 2014, 12:22:28 AM
And I'm pretty sure at the commercial level I'd be even more OCD !
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: erockrph on July 02, 2014, 04:21:29 AM
If anyone else is having a hard time falling asleep tonight, you can read this:

http://www.ift.org/~/media/Knowledge%20Center/Science%20Reports/Scientific%20Status%20Summaries/resistanceantimicrobials_1102.pdf

It does seem that there is some precedent for resistance being developed to various sanitizers. In particular they mention an experiment where a bacterial colony that was exposed to sublethal concentrations of Star San showed increased resistance upon further exposure to the recommended concentration.

There is enough circumstantial evidence here that I think I'll pick up a bottle of iodophor just to mix it up every once in a while. And definitely always mix your Star San to the recommended strength, or you may end up doing more harm than good.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 02, 2014, 11:56:20 AM
If anyone else is having a hard time falling asleep tonight, you can read this:

http://www.ift.org/~/media/Knowledge%20Center/Science%20Reports/Scientific%20Status%20Summaries/resistanceantimicrobials_1102.pdf

It does seem that there is some precedent for resistance being developed to various sanitizers. In particular they mention an experiment where a bacterial colony that was exposed to sublethal concentrations of Star San showed increased resistance upon further exposure to the recommended concentration.

There is enough circumstantial evidence here that I think I'll pick up a bottle of iodophor just to mix it up every once in a while. And definitely always mix your Star San to the recommended strength, or you may end up doing more harm than good.

Good info. Guess I'll keep using iodophor now and then.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: brewsumore on July 05, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
I KNEW I bought that 3 pack of spray bottles for a reason. Thanks!

Jeff

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.

I recently started keeping a carboy full of RO water (with a faucet/pump on it to dispense the water) on hand just for mixing spray bottles full of Star San.  Otherwise, with my tap water the Star San gets cloudy and then slimy.

I keep syringes among my brewing equipment, and as my spray bottle full holds 26 oz of water, I calculated the amount of Star San needed at 1.2 ml and just draw approximately that amount into a small syringe via the measuring vault of the Star San container.  I add that directly to the spray bottle full of water and give it a shake.

Thanks all for the reminders to use Iodophor every once in awhile.  I too still have plenty on hand after having made the switch to Star San.
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: Kinetic on July 05, 2014, 07:36:00 PM
RO water is 39 cents a gallon at the local grocery store and they let me fill my 5 gallon carboy with it.  It stays clear with starsan and has a pH of less than 2.5 for as long as I care to make it last which is rarely more than 3 months.

Iodophor is nice for bottling to eliminate foam inside and out.  Then I dump it in empty fermenters to kill bugs that aren't even there.   
Title: Re: Iodophor
Post by: Titanium Brewing on July 11, 2014, 07:23:06 PM
I commonly use both Idophor & Star San. Not at the same time, of course. I like to keep the bugs at bay by mixing up my routine.

I think of it like anti-malware software, no one product kills all the bugs. Sometimes you have to use a couple different scanners to get em all.