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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: enso on April 18, 2010, 08:27:20 PM

Title: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: enso on April 18, 2010, 08:27:20 PM
So I recently (reluctantly) dry hopped a Belgian IPA with homegrown cascade hops.  I used 20 g for a five gallon keg.  I ended up pulling the hops after only about 4 days as it was tasting wicked grassy.  It got worse than that.  I friend likened it to a seafood taste which was all I could taste after he said that.

I have really never had much success using homegrown or any whole leaf hops for dry hopping.  I usually stick to pellets.  Is this something that will fade?  The grassy, seafood flavor/aroma that is?  OR do I hit it with some pellet hops?  Fining?

If it will go away, how long before I give it another try.  I have not touched it since tapping a week or so ago as it was pretty undrinkable.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: The Professor on April 18, 2010, 11:22:11 PM
To me, 20g seems like a lot for a 5 gal batch (28g=1oz) unless you have a real short contact time.

When I dry hop anything, I rarely use more than 1/4oz (that's 7g) for a 5 gal batch;  I dry hop in the keg and leave it at cellar temps for a day or two then get it into the cold.  I'll then taste it until I get the level of dryhop effect  I want, then get it off of the dry hops into another keg (or if I'm designing the beer for bottling, I'll dry hop for a week or two then get it into the bottles from the keg).
 
The amounts and timings are variable, depending on what's needed for any particular  beer.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: Hokerer on April 19, 2010, 12:07:48 AM
Just to provide another perspective, if I'm going to bother to dry hop, it's always with a minimum on 1 oz and it's usually in there for the full two weeks of secondary.  Look at some of the more famous dry-hopped recipes around these parts (cough, DCRIPA, cough) and an ounce is pretty common - some recipes call for even more..
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: rabid_dingo on April 19, 2010, 05:53:06 AM
I got the grassy flavor out of brewing with homegrown hops. I wonder if harvest time (too ripe thus AA is diminished due to late season/fading of aromatics) has something to do with it. Last harvest I harvested sooner that I planned to in hopes that I waited too long the time before. Dried them in 2 days and vacuu sealed them. I am crossing my fingers for a better year...
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: enso on April 19, 2010, 01:33:02 PM
I have never gotten grassy flavors from using homegrown in the boil.  As to the amount.  When using pellets I have used over 28 g (and oz.) for 2 weeks and never gotten this flavor.  Usually I use at least 14g (half an ounce).  Maybe it is necessary to use less whole hops for dry hopping than one would normally use pellets.  I guess it makes sense there is more green matter (surface wise) with the whole hops than the pellets.

Dunno.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: denny on April 19, 2010, 03:24:40 PM
To me, 20g seems like a lot for a 5 gal batch (28g=1oz) unless you have a real short contact time.

When I dry hop anything, I rarely use more than 1/4oz (that's 7g) for a 5 gal batch;

Around here, we call that "why didn't you dry hop it?".  ;)  I never use less than an oz., often 2-3 oz. of mixed varieties.  And I frequently use my homegrown Cascades.  I guess it just a question of different people. different tastes.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: mikeypedersen on April 19, 2010, 03:45:29 PM
To me, 20g seems like a lot for a 5 gal batch (28g=1oz) unless you have a real short contact time.

When I dry hop anything, I rarely use more than 1/4oz (that's 7g) for a 5 gal batch;

Around here, we call that "why didn't you dry hop it?".  ;)  I never use less than an oz., often 2-3 oz. of mixed varieties.  And I frequently use my homegrown Cascades.  I guess it just a question of different people. different tastes.
I would have to agree.  I've never used less than an ounce of dry hops in a 5 gallon batch, often use 2-3 ounces, and have used as much as 7 ounces. 
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: pinnah on April 19, 2010, 05:35:30 PM
The quality of homegrown is not equal...I would suspect your hops first.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: beer_crafter on April 19, 2010, 07:54:32 PM
To add, I find the MOST grassy time for dry hopping is in the first few days-- leave those babies in for another week or so and the grassiness fades and the desirable hop character appears.  This is especially noticable when dry hopping at serving temps.
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: enso on April 19, 2010, 09:05:21 PM
I tried it today and it is all clear!  Tastes great.  Guess I rushed it.

That was weird.  I really thought that flavor was there to stay.  No hint of it now.

Better go have another to be sure...

 ;)
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: The Professor on April 19, 2010, 10:29:42 PM
To me, 20g seems like a lot for a 5 gal batch (28g=1oz) unless you have a real short contact time.

When I dry hop anything, I rarely use more than 1/4oz (that's 7g) for a 5 gal batch;

Around here, we call that "why didn't you dry hop it?".  ;)  I never use less than an oz., often 2-3 oz. of mixed varieties.  And I frequently use my homegrown Cascades.  I guess it just a question of different people. different tastes.

 ;D  HA.  I know what you're saying Denny...and you're right, as always it really just boils down to individual taste.

I know it seems low (and I guess in looking back, I do use more than that in my own IPA)...but for most of the regular quaffing ales I make, the 1/4 oz seems to do pretty well...I wind up with a nice floral aroma with no grassy-ness whatsoever.  Depends a little on the varieties used, but the stated amount kept at cellar temps for a few days or a week does it for the average brew.

Even so (and again, it's just habit and personal preference) I tend to use a bit less dry hop than most, but will opt for longer contact time if need be.  Lately I've been experimenting more with distilled hop oil for aroma as well...I'm getting pretty close to the result I'm really looking for with that. 
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: 1vertical on April 20, 2010, 05:35:50 AM
  Lately I've been experimenting more with distilled hop oil for aroma as well...I'm getting pretty close to the result I'm really looking for with that. 

That would be "hop shots" ?
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: The Professor on April 20, 2010, 03:10:25 PM
  Lately I've been experimenting more with distilled hop oil for aroma as well...I'm getting pretty close to the result I'm really looking for with that. 

That would be "hop shots" ?

I don't know...I'm not familiar with 'hop shots'. 
The hop oil I've been trying to produce (after trying a couple of very expensive commercial ones)  is rather like the  distilled hop oil that the Ballantine brewery made in house for use in their ales;  it, along with their extended aging in wood for certain of their products, pretty much defined their beers, particularly their very bitter and aromatic  IPA which I enjoyed so much.  The contribution of the hop oil was predominately aromatic (and intensely so), although there was a flavor component too.  They used the hop oil in addition to dry hopping during the aging period  (relatively short term for their regular XXX ale, and longer in the large wooden storage vessels where the IPA and Burton ales were aged.

Although I've managed to come close, my home attempts at making the hop oil have unfortunately been rather inconsistent thus far.  I'll keep trying though....
Title: Re: Too green! Dry hop question
Post by: babalu87 on April 20, 2010, 03:21:10 PM
The quality of homegrown is not equal...I would suspect your hops first.

What do you base that on?

I would argue that homegrown hops are better. I know I've never smelled Mt Hood hops that are anywhere close to what my homegrown smells like.
Cascades , same thing