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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: narcout on August 14, 2014, 03:54:13 PM

Title: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: narcout on August 14, 2014, 03:54:13 PM
Is this new?

I've never seen it before.

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/SAFBREW-ABBAYE-ALE-P3736.aspx
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Stevie on August 14, 2014, 03:58:26 PM
It's listed as new on Williams' homepage.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: mattybrass on August 14, 2014, 04:15:41 PM
Yes, Fermentis just released it. within the last month or so.

Safbrew™ Abbaye is the eleventh yeast strain specifically selected for beer.
 
This new strain will allow fast Fermentation, very high attenuation, high alcohol content (up to 11 % v/v) with subtle aroma and a well-balanced profile.
 
With Safbrew Abbaye, brewers will be able to brew refreshing session beers and stronger Abbaye styles and IPAs.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: denny on August 14, 2014, 04:59:54 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: beersk on August 14, 2014, 05:11:46 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
I thought that seemed obvious with this whole Belgian IPA trend going on right now...
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dannyjed on August 14, 2014, 07:25:22 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
My thought exactly. I also thought maybe it is something similar to the Rochefort strain which is lower on esters and phenols compared to other Belgian strains.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: denny on August 14, 2014, 07:31:20 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
My thought exactly. I also thought maybe it is something similar to the Rochefort strain which is lower on esters and phenols compared to other Belgian strains.

Rochefort?  As in WY1762?    Never struck me as being particularly low on esters.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 14, 2014, 07:43:44 PM
Personally, I love Belgian beers and IPAs, but not the hybrid of the two. Seems like a weird way to advertise a new Abbey strain.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 14, 2014, 07:45:18 PM


Rochefort?  As in WY1762?    Never struck me as being particularly low on esters.

+1. 
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: erockrph on August 14, 2014, 08:00:30 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
My thought exactly. I also thought maybe it is something similar to the Rochefort strain which is lower on esters and phenols compared to other Belgian strains.

Rochefort?  As in WY1762?    Never struck me as being particularly low on esters.

I get a lot of plummy esters in big Belgian Darks, but I don't get anywhere near as much banana as other Belgian strains with WY1762. Wyeast does bill it as a relatively clean Belgian strain, and I can say it makes a great English BW.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: narcout on August 14, 2014, 08:29:22 PM
Here is the spec sheet, it lists total esters at 20 ppm (at 18 degress Plato at 20 degrees Celcius in EBC tubes):

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/pdfs/y24.pdf

Tthe fact sheet for US-05 lists total esters at 40 ppm:

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dannyjed on August 14, 2014, 08:30:15 PM
I'm kinda worried about the description saying Belgian styles and IIPA.  Does that mean Belgian beers with a "Belgian profile" or IIPA that tastes Belgian?  They seem to be more concerned with alcohol tolerance than anything else.
My thought exactly. I also thought maybe it is something similar to the Rochefort strain which is lower on esters and phenols compared to other Belgian strains.

Rochefort?  As in WY1762?    Never struck me as being particularly low on esters.
Not particularly low, but lower than others like WY1214 and WY3787 is what I meant. Of course, fermentation temps play a large role in ester production as well.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: denny on August 14, 2014, 08:31:31 PM
Not particularly low, but lower than others like WY1214 and WY3787 is what I meant. Of course, fermentation temps play a large role in ester production as well.

Lower than 1214, definitely.  But I don't know if I could say lower than 3787.  Given I ferment 3787 in the low 60s, though.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dannyjed on August 14, 2014, 08:35:34 PM
Here is the spec sheet, it lists total esters at 20 ppm (at 18 degress Plato at 20 degrees Celcius in EBC tubes):

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/pdfs/y24.pdf

Tthe fact sheet for US-05 lists total esters at 40 ppm:

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
If that means that US 05 has twice the amount of esters, then I don't understand why it is called an Abbey style yeast.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: narcout on August 14, 2014, 09:14:45 PM
Here is the spec sheet, it lists total esters at 20 ppm (at 18 degress Plato at 20 degrees Celcius in EBC tubes):

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/pdfs/y24.pdf

Tthe fact sheet for US-05 lists total esters at 40 ppm:

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
If that means that US 05 has twice the amount of esters, then I don't understand why it is called an Abbey style yeast.

I don't know how much weight I would really give those specs.  Rolling all esters up into one ppm number seems misleading.  I just thought it was interesting.

Hopefully someone will give this yeast a try and report back.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 14, 2014, 09:45:22 PM
Got a sachet Saturday and brewing this Saturday.  I may go with a Leffe clone to test the waters on the flavor profile.  My purchase was the first at the LHBS and they want reports.  Now...whether to rehydrate or not!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 14, 2014, 10:07:22 PM
Not particularly low, but lower than others like WY1214 and WY3787 is what I meant. Of course, fermentation temps play a large role in ester production as well.

Lower than 1214, definitely.  But I don't know if I could say lower than 3787.  Given I ferment 3787 in the low 60s, though.

Yeah, Belgian strains are (to me) even more tied to fermentation temps than other strains. I've held 1762 @ 64F for 2 or 3 days, then ramped up slowly and gotten a fairly clean dubbel or quad. A degree or two warmer and gotten nice esters, plummy with some spice mostly. I think 1214 is definitely more estery at a given temp.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 16, 2014, 05:41:02 PM
Got talked into brewing a golden strong ale per an award winner from a local contest this past winter.  If it's good, I may hold onto some bottles for comps.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 19, 2014, 02:06:40 AM
Man does it throw off a nice fruity aroma!  If the flavor follows the initial fermentation aroma, it will be a winner....
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Iliff Ave on August 19, 2014, 09:39:31 PM
Keep me updated on this one. I have been wanting to do a golden strong ale for a while and prefer dry yeast when appropriate for the style...
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: hospter81 on August 26, 2014, 10:32:08 PM
Man does it throw off a nice fruity aroma!  If the flavor follows the initial fermentation aroma, it will be a winner....

what was your temperature profile in the fermentation? can you share it??
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 26, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
In the low 60's to start (using a bag chiller and frozen 2 liter water bottles) then rose up to high 60's to 70 or so to finish off after about five days.  Still in primary, but expecting to rack soon.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: bigchicken on August 29, 2014, 03:04:34 PM
Here is the spec sheet, it lists total esters at 20 ppm (at 18 degress Plato at 20 degrees Celcius in EBC tubes):

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/pdfs/y24.pdf

Tthe fact sheet for US-05 lists total esters at 40 ppm:

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf
If that means that US 05 has twice the amount of esters, then I don't understand why it is called an Abbey style yeast.

I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on September 26, 2014, 01:32:36 AM
Update - Well the first hydrometer sample was taken as I racked to the keg.  It smelled and tasted great to me - the beer started at 1.061 and finished at 1.004.  I am no expert at giving flavor descriptors, but it tasted a bit of pear and maybe some grape or similar fruit.  I realize now looking back on the OG that the beer is not a Belgian strong golden, but rather a stronger Belgian Blonde.  I can't want to taste it carbed up - to get a better representation of the beer.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: erockrph on September 26, 2014, 02:04:39 AM
Interesting description. Between the flavor and attenuation it almost sounds like a Saison strain.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on September 26, 2014, 08:39:41 PM
I guess I had it in the primary a little over a month - just got around to kegging it; maybe that long in the primary had the effect of keeping the yeast working a bit longer?  I did remove it from the chiller bag after a few days, which might have further roused it at that point.  I have no way of knowing when it finished, because I didn't check the FG until I racked it and it was in a bucket in the basement.

All things considered, it turned out pretty well for not being really cold fermented, but that is just based on a hydrometer sample that I shared with SWAMBO (who thought it was great, but she had been drinking a glass of wine and said it might have influenced her taste). 
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: noonancm on September 27, 2014, 07:26:46 PM
I recently used this yeast with a recipe that won me a gold for a Belgian golden strong. Decided to try this instead of White Lab 500 since I normally use dry yeast except when I doing Belgians.

Anyway fermented at 64 degrees. Was hoping for a pear taste. Didn't get it. It leaned towards pepper but even that was not pronounced. Fermented dry; about 10% abv. All in all, not impressed. More than likely going back to white labs for this style.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: erockrph on September 28, 2014, 03:49:33 AM
I recently used this yeast with a recipe that won me a gold for a Belgian golden strong. Decided to try this instead of White Lab 500 since I normally use dry yeast except when I doing Belgians.

Anyway fermented at 64 degrees. Was hoping for a pear taste. Didn't get it. It leaned towards pepper but even that was not pronounced. Fermented dry; about 10% abv. All in all, not impressed. More than likely going back to white labs for this style.
Now this is really starting to sound like a Saison strain. Maybe it has potential as a co-pitch with 3724 instead of the usual 3711.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 28, 2014, 04:08:18 AM
I recently used this yeast with a recipe that won me a gold for a Belgian golden strong. Decided to try this instead of White Lab 500 since I normally use dry yeast except when I doing Belgians.

Anyway fermented at 64 degrees. Was hoping for a pear taste. Didn't get it. It leaned towards pepper but even that was not pronounced. Fermented dry; about 10% abv. All in all, not impressed. More than likely going back to white labs for this style.
Now this is really starting to sound like a Saison strain. Maybe it has potential as a co-pitch with 3724 instead of the usual 3711.

I agree. So far I'm not buying the 'Abbey' thing based on the descriptions guys are giving of their beers. Sounds more like it has some pseudo-Saison character to me.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 03, 2014, 06:27:27 PM
I hate to say it, but as a carbed sample last night, I wasn't really happy with it.  I think it is an abbey style yeast, not a saison...my problem really is with its use for a Belgian Golden.  The Beer had Belgian sugar at high Krausen or just past that point.  The flavor is somewhat Trappist-like, but kinda "flat", without much in the way of esters, other than a subtle pear note.  I am going to let one warm up quite a bit and see if that has any effect.  All things considered, I would say that the flavor profile lacks the complexity that I have come to taste with the liquid yeasts that are Trappist originated.  My recipe was basically Pilsner 8 lbs, Wheat 2 pounds, lightly hopped with  Hallertauer and Hallertauer Mittelfruh, but I don't recall the specifics on that presently.  I may try it in a Dubbel to see if there is any better result.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unmaltedcheese on December 01, 2014, 08:10:09 PM
I hate to say it, but as a carbed sample last night, I wasn't really happy with it.  I think it is an abbey style yeast, not a saison...my problem really is with its use for a Belgian Golden.  The Beer had Belgian sugar at high Krausen or just past that point.  The flavor is somewhat Trappist-like, but kinda "flat", without much in the way of esters, other than a subtle pear note.  I am going to let one warm up quite a bit and see if that has any effect.  All things considered, I would say that the flavor profile lacks the complexity that I have come to taste with the liquid yeasts that are Trappist originated.  My recipe was basically Pilsner 8 lbs, Wheat 2 pounds, lightly hopped with  Hallertauer and Hallertauer Mittelfruh, but I don't recall the specifics on that presently.  I may try it in a Dubbel to see if there is any better result.

I tried in a dubbel. I don't like it. It's just not a nice blend of flavors. There's too many sharp edges with this yeast. It's just odd. I remember Fermentis trying to call that S-33 yeast a "belgian yeast" too. It wasn't. This, Abbaye yeast,  doesn't have any qualities that I would even begin to say are "Belgian." I tried it in the recommended range, at about 68, and finally ramping up to 72F at the end.

This isn't the most helpful description of it, but I just don't know what to say about it other than it's just odd. If you've tried that T-58 yeast, you'll get it. That's another weirdo yeast. Sour, pepper, weird. Abbaye isn't like T58 in any way, except both are weird.

For some reason I am the eternal optimist with these dry yeasts and I am continually disappointed. Of all the ones I tried, and I have tried tons of them, the ones that I like the best are the least marketed and least popular.

Safale K-97 for instance. Fantastic alt yeast. Really awesome. Clean, crisp, malty. Everything you want in an alt yeast. I would use it for a cream ale, maybe a festbier, biere de garde, dry stout maybe, kolsch. Very nice yeast.

Not to get too far off the mark here since we're talking about the Fermentis Abbaye, but they make good products, but they insist on selling the good yeasts like S-189, K-97 in 500g bricks only. I heard that K-97 is coming out in homebrew sachets someday soon, but for how many years have people been buying the half kilo bricks and repacking it? At least a decade. As a business, take a hint!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: MonkeyButt on December 07, 2014, 08:45:13 PM
I just used this yesterday to bottle condition a Saison.  I will report back in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Steve Ruch on December 15, 2014, 10:37:52 PM
.
Not to get too far off the mark here since we're talking about the Fermentis Abbaye, but they make good products, but they insist on selling the good yeasts like S-189, K-97 in 500g bricks only. I heard that K-97 is coming out in homebrew sachets someday soon, but for how many years have people been buying the half kilo bricks and repacking it? At least a decade. As a business, take a hint!

There are a couple of homebrew shops that repackage the S-189. I've used it to good success in a marzen and recently ordered five more packs from Atlantic Brew Supply. They have a USPS option on shipping so that's pretty low cost for a few packs of yeast
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Iliff Ave on December 16, 2014, 03:31:27 AM
.
Not to get too far off the mark here since we're talking about the Fermentis Abbaye, but they make good products, but they insist on selling the good yeasts like S-189, K-97 in 500g bricks only. I heard that K-97 is coming out in homebrew sachets someday soon, but for how many years have people been buying the half kilo bricks and repacking it? At least a decade. As a business, take a hint!

There are a couple of homebrew shops that repackage the S-189. I've used it to good success in a marzen and recently ordered five more packs from Atlantic Brew Supply. They have a USPS option on shipping so that's pretty low cost for a few packs of yeast

Thanks for sharing! I see that they have k-97 too. I hear that is good for kolsch so I would like to give it a try
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: mattybrass on December 23, 2014, 06:19:36 PM
I saw that Danstar recently released a similar yeast. Does anyone know if it's the same strain?

http://www.danstaryeast.com/company/products/abbaye-belgian-ale-yeast
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on December 23, 2014, 06:40:57 PM
Oh crap, you're right... I'm pretty sure I've been getting the two mixed up.  I took a bunch of notes and now I don't know which notes are applicable to Safbrew vs. Danstar.  Ugh, why do they do this to us, and both come out at the same time........
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: newmanwell on January 06, 2015, 11:14:51 PM
I brewed a Belgian blonde with it about a month ago. The fermentation was straight up sulfer. Like more sulfer than I've ever experienced. After crashing I racked into my keg for carbonation and I still was getting sulfer albeit much less. I just tried it tonight after two weeks in the keg and I'm still getting sulfer. There are some fruity esters and phenols there but I can't say much about them because the sulfer is still pretty distracting. I'll give it a few more weeks and report back.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on January 07, 2015, 02:28:34 AM
Sulfur should normally age out within a month or so.  Just needs some time.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 21, 2015, 03:11:35 AM
Bumping this thread to just add that this brew definitely rounded out better than expected with e few months in the keg.  I think this does have a saisonish tendency.  That somewhat cardboard-but-not lightly black pepper note has come out a bit.  All in all not nearly as bad as I thought earlier.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: newmanwell on January 22, 2015, 11:44:45 PM
So after a couple more weeks the sulfur has faded out. The esters and the phenols are light. Which leads me to my problem with dry yeast. There really isn't enough information about how much yeast is in a package. The manufacturer website says "at least" 70 billion cells. And mr malty says 220 billion. So who really can say how much you pitch. I usually get good results with Belgian beers when I under pitch a little.

That said I'll enjoy the beer while it's on tap but I wouldn't consider entering it into a competition.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on January 23, 2015, 01:02:13 PM
So after a couple more weeks the sulfur has faded out. The esters and the phenols are light. Which leads me to my problem with dry yeast. There really isn't enough information about how much yeast is in a package. The manufacturer website says "at least" 70 billion cells. And mr malty says 220 billion. So who really can say how much you pitch. I usually get good results with Belgian beers when I under pitch a little.

That said I'll enjoy the beer while it's on tap but I wouldn't consider entering it into a competition.

Newmanwell,

Did you use one packet or two?
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Joe Sr. on January 23, 2015, 03:26:50 PM
This isn't the most helpful description of it, but I just don't know what to say about it other than it's just odd. If you've tried that T-58 yeast, you'll get it. That's another weirdo yeast. Sour, pepper, weird. Abbaye isn't like T58 in any way, except both are weird.

I've only used T-58 once and that was for a quick saison.  I thought it turned out nicely.  I don't have any notes, but lightly sour and pepper sounds about right.  Nice for a saison, but I don't think so nice for a dubbel.  The right tool for the right job, and all that.

I think the bigger problem is that the yeast companies try to market these dry strains as appropriate for a wide style of beers when, in truth, they aren't.  No one would tell you to make a dubbel with 3724 or 3711, but they make great saisons.  No one would tell you to make saison with Chimay yeast.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: newmanwell on January 23, 2015, 09:01:48 PM
So after a couple more weeks the sulfur has faded out. The esters and the phenols are light. Which leads me to my problem with dry yeast. There really isn't enough information about how much yeast is in a package. The manufacturer website says "at least" 70 billion cells. And mr malty says 220 billion. So who really can say how much you pitch. I usually get good results with Belgian beers when I under pitch a little.

That said I'll enjoy the beer while it's on tap but I wouldn't consider entering it into a competition.

Newmanwell,

Did you use one packet or two?


Since my OG was 1060 i decided to go with two packets. If the manufactures website is correct, one packet would be grossly underpitching.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on January 24, 2015, 03:41:54 AM
So after a couple more weeks the sulfur has faded out. The esters and the phenols are light. Which leads me to my problem with dry yeast. There really isn't enough information about how much yeast is in a package. The manufacturer website says "at least" 70 billion cells. And mr malty says 220 billion. So who really can say how much you pitch. I usually get good results with Belgian beers when I under pitch a little.

That said I'll enjoy the beer while it's on tap but I wouldn't consider entering it into a competition.

Newmanwell,

Did you use one packet or two?


Since my OG was 1060 i decided to go with two packets. If the manufactures website is correct, one packet would be grossly underpitching.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 06, 2015, 08:32:05 AM
I've a Honey Brown in primary since last weekend. Pitched with Safbrew/Fermentis Abbaye and held at 24°C (75°F) for 5 days now. Upper end of what Fermentis recommends for this yeast but I picked up from other people's experiences that it doesn't produce much phenolic character so I decided to ferment warm.

Took a grav sample yesterday: from 1050 tot 1008, meaning apparent attenuation of 82% and climbing.

Smelled horrible. I got a faint whiff of the honey (2 lbs in a 5 gal batch), which got swamped by a dreadful sulphury stink. Worse: the sulphur's in the taste as well.
I've no idea what's causing the stink, but I'm suspecting the yeast. Maybe it'll clear up in time but I've got a bad bad feeling about this one...
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: JT on February 06, 2015, 10:35:59 AM
I've a Honey Brown in primary since last weekend. Pitched with Safbrew/Fermentis Abbaye and held at 24°C (75°F) for 5 days now. Upper end of what Fermentis recommends for this yeast but I picked up from other people's experiences that it doesn't produce much phenolic character so I decided to ferment warm.

Took a grav sample yesterday: from 1050 tot 1008, meaning apparent attenuation of 82% and climbing.

Smelled horrible. I got a faint whiff of the honey (2 lbs in a 5 gal batch), which got swamped by a dreadful sulphury stink. Worse: the sulphur's in the taste as well.
I've no idea what's causing the stink, but I'm suspecting the yeast. Maybe it'll clear up in time but I've got a bad bad feeling about this one...
If the sulphur smell is a byproduct of the yeast it will fade out during storage.  Your description of dreadful sulphur stink though makes me think infection.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 06, 2015, 11:50:51 AM
What kind of infection would leave a sulphur smell, I wonder?
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on February 06, 2015, 02:12:15 PM
Sulfur is very normal.  Give it a month, and the sulfur will probably be gone.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: JT on February 06, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
What kind of infection would leave a sulphur smell, I wonder?
Personally, never experienced it with an infection, just referencing How to Brew there.  I agree with Dave, I would hang on to any beer with a sulfur problem because IME it doesn't stay with the final product. 
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 06, 2015, 03:22:29 PM
What kind of infection would leave a sulphur smell, I wonder?
Personally, never experienced it with an infection, just referencing How to Brew there.  I agree with Dave, I would hang on to any beer with a sulfur problem because IME it doesn't stay with the final product.

+3

A couple of weeks of cold lagering should take care of it.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 06, 2015, 09:25:22 PM
Yeah. I realise the beer is still extremely green (5 days in primary) but it's the first time I've encountered such an off-putting initial stage in brewing. I swear, my pukey gose was more appealing than this.

Hanging on to it. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 08, 2015, 02:26:56 PM
Please update and let us know how it turns out.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 12, 2015, 09:57:43 AM
Please update and let us know how it turns out.

Will do :)

Whatever I've to say about the yeast, it sure is a chomper. For 12 days now it's been slowly eating away at the brew, with the airlock still showing activity at a steady 77°F. The air inside my fermentation-fridge doesn't smell bad at all, quite banana-ish actually. My estimate is to rack sometime next week, after slowly bringing her down to 40°F so the yeast can flocc. I've a suspicion part of the sulphur flavour comes from the yeast itself.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 13, 2015, 02:06:23 AM
Please update and let us know how it turns out.

Will do :)

Whatever I've to say about the yeast, it sure is a chomper. For 12 days now it's been slowly eating away at the brew, with the airlock still showing activity at a steady 77°F. The air inside my fermentation-fridge doesn't smell bad at all, quite banana-ish actually. My estimate is to rack sometime next week, after slowly bringing her down to 40°F so the yeast can flocc. I've a suspicion part of the sulphur flavour comes from the yeast itself.

Thanks. When did it turn the corner? Mine still stinks, and it has been almost two weeks in primary.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 13, 2015, 05:54:33 AM
FWIW, stinky brew usually fades with time.  I have used this yeast with good results.  It is a bit different than an other yeast I have used.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 13, 2015, 09:40:57 AM
When did it turn the corner? Mine still stinks, and it has been almost two weeks in primary.

It hasn't. Yet. I think.
It never smelled bad in the fermentor-fridge. Just the sample itself. The CO2 it's burping out doesn't seem to smell off.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: stevecrawshaw on February 16, 2015, 09:57:49 AM
I brewed an american barley wine with this yeast a couple of months ago and sampled it last night. It has come out well, with no dominant phenolic or belgian esters, but a good US hop character. It has fully attenuated and is crystal clear. I can confirm that it is a good attenuator and tolerant of high alcohol levels (10%).
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 17, 2015, 02:28:30 AM
I brewed an american barley wine with this yeast a couple of months ago and sampled it last night. It has come out well, with no dominant phenolic or belgian esters, but a good US hop character. It has fully attenuated and is crystal clear. I can confirm that it is a good attenuator and tolerant of high alcohol levels (10%).

That's encouraging news. Thanks!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 18, 2015, 09:01:46 PM
Reporting for duty.

18 days later, things have much improved. Primary's been nearing completion, and since 4 days, I've been slowly bringing her down from 75 F to 40 with 5 degree decrements.
Beer dropped bright clear now, and the sulphur's gone. In its place came honey notes, as well as toasty biscuity flavours. The honey hints of sweetness which is actually not really there (1.050 to 1.006) and the 25-ish IBUs give a nice complementary bitterness. El Dorado turned slightly marzipany-almondy.

Goes to show you can't hurry beer, and a beer one week into primary is nothing like its eventual mature form.

Now: secondary for a couple weeks and then, into the bottle. Bee keeper's getting restless for her beers.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p296x100/1904228_1027265107287913_8665054631985983276_n.jpg?oh=78395f6da7a6e7544fd83e4d7a21db22&oe=554B77A1&__gda__=1435611420_937eab7d92a82a40161bcafd5147f046)
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 22, 2015, 02:33:17 PM
Reporting for duty.

18 days later, things have much improved. Primary's been nearing completion, and since 4 days, I've been slowly bringing her down from 75 F to 40 with 5 degree decrements.
Beer dropped bright clear now, and the sulphur's gone. In its place came honey notes, as well as toasty biscuity flavours. The honey hints of sweetness which is actually not really there (1.050 to 1.006) and the 25-ish IBUs give a nice complementary bitterness. El Dorado turned slightly marzipany-almondy.

Goes to show you can't hurry beer, and a beer one week into primary is nothing like its eventual mature form.

Now: secondary for a couple weeks and then, into the bottle. Bee keeper's getting restless for her beers.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p296x100/1904228_1027265107287913_8665054631985983276_n.jpg?oh=78395f6da7a6e7544fd83e4d7a21db22&oe=554B77A1&__gda__=1435611420_937eab7d92a82a40161bcafd5147f046)

Thanks for the update. Mine is coming along as well. I kegged yesterday, and the sulphur was almost gone. I figure another week or two in the keg at 34F. will do it. As it was it tasted good. Smooth pilsner with a touch of honey. The yeast has just a faint Belgian peppery character.Pretty much just what I was shooting for.

More to come at tapping time.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 25, 2015, 08:37:50 AM
Reportin' for duty.

Bee Barf Brown was racked to secondary yesterday, roughly three weeks after pitching with Fermentis/Safbrew Abbaye.

While the smell was definitely off-putting during week 1, things improved vastly later on. Two weeks at 75F, and another week ramping down and steadied at 40F made for a very clear beer, with a yeastiness which is certainly nothing like the horror stories I've been hearing about this yeast. The beer's still green, but the honey played through nicely, with some malts kicking in in the back. El Dorado doing something almondy-biscotti-ish which somehow works kinda well.
Through it all, an subtle estery yeast presence amalgamates the lot into something which I suppose could be called borderline Belgian if one were so inclined.

Is it an abbaye yeast? Nah. Perhaps if used in a really warm fermentation, it might bump those typical esters, but no way this will turn into a Belgian Banana Bomb without some severe tweaking.

Apparent attentuation would be around 85% for me. Lively, happy yeast which never stalled, but took its own sweet time to complete primary.

Firm, dense cake which made racking super smooth; I'd say this is the first yeast I've tried since I started using my fermentation fridge which I could see myself even skipping secondary and bottle directly from primary. Something I'll keep in mind when I want to brew something that doesn't need extra lagering.

I'd use it again for a dubbel or a brown. Perhaps, for funz&lolz, I might blend it with some other yeast to complement or boost its subdued esters.

Overall, despite initial misgivings and its misleading marketing as an abbaye yeast, I'd use this again.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on February 28, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
Reportin' for duty.

Bee Barf Brown was racked to secondary yesterday, roughly three weeks after pitching onto Fermentis/Safbrew Abbaye.

While the smell was definitely off-putting during week 1, things improved vastly later on. Two weeks at 75F, and another week ramping down and steadied at 40F made for a very clear beer, with a yeastiness which is certainly nothing like the horror stories I've been hearing about this yeast. The beer's still green, but the honey played through nicely, with some malts kicking in in the back. El Dorado doing something almondy-biscotti-ish which somehow works kinda well.
Through it all, an subtle estery yeast presence amalgamates the lot into something which I suppose could be called borderline Belgian if one were so inclined.

Is it an abbaye yeast? Nah. Perhaps if used in a really warm fermentation, it might bump those typical esters, but no way this will turn into a Belgian Banana Bomb without some severe tweaking.

Apparent attentuation would be around 85% for me. Lively, happy yeast which never stalled, but took its own sweet time to complete primary.

Firm, dense cake which made racking super smooth; I'd say this is the first yeast I've tried since I started using my fermentation fridge which I could see myself even skipping secondary and bottle directly from primary. Something I'll keep in mind when I want to brew something that doesn't need extra lagering.

I'd use it again for a dubbel or a brown. Perhaps, for funz&lolz, I might blend it with some other yeast to complement or boost its subdued esters.

Overall, despite initial misgivings and its misleading marketing as an abbaye yeast, I'd use this again.

Thanks, Uncle!

Well, mine is a month old now, and it still stinks. Not as much as it did at first, but there is still too much sulfur in the nose. With that said, It tastes pretty good. Mine is a Leffe clone, and it has many of the attributes of Leffe, taste-wise that is, but it is hard to get past the aroma. And that's really the only problem I have with it so far. So, I will give it a couple/few more weeks and report back. I can only hope to end up as satisfied as you.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on March 30, 2015, 08:15:11 PM
Updates galore.
I wanted to bottle my Bee Barf Brown tonight, but it seems the pellicle fairy paid us a visit.

Nice clean pellicle on top so not bottling for another few weeks/months yet.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on March 31, 2015, 04:26:09 PM
mine is still lagering. I should have a taste and report back.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on March 31, 2015, 07:07:11 PM
Taste was okay here. Mild biscotti/marzipan/almond flavour. Honey very much subdued, almost unnoticable.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 07, 2015, 10:14:10 PM
Taste was okay here. Mild biscotti/marzipan/almond flavour. Honey very much subdued, almost unnoticable.

Okay, so I had a taste, and the sulphur aroma is mostly gone. It has been replaced with a woodsy, grapevine aroma that is pleasant but unusual, not at all Belgian or abbey-like. The flavor is very good. It's on the dry side and malty clean with a hint of pepper, which is decidedly Belgian. It finishes with just a touch of fruit that is maybe grape or pear, not at all unpleasant.

I like the beer overall, but like I've heard others say, it's just different. Maybe it's a little Belgian and maybe it isn't. I think I'd use it again and maybe ferment warmer to try to draw out the Belgian-ness. Maybe I'd use it in a Belgian strong, either dark or golden. Lots of maybes with this one.

Has anybody tried the Lallemand Abbaye dry yeast? Is that any better? Worse?

It would be great to have a dry Belgian yeast! I'm not sure the Safebrew Abbaye is it, though.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on April 07, 2015, 10:21:58 PM
...a woodsy, grapevine aroma that is pleasant but unusual, not at all Belgian or abbey-like... It finishes with just a touch of fruit that is maybe grape or pear, not at all unpleasant.

Based on this description, this sounds almost more like an English ale yeast than a Belgian.  Strange.

There is a great dry Belgian yeast... Belle Saison!  I've been thinking about how I might try to make this yeast work in beers other than saison, to kick the gravity up a bit.  Might require lactose or something to bring the body back up, since it tends to finish around 1.002-1.003 no matter what.  But it certainly tastes very Belgiany!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 07, 2015, 10:33:38 PM
Yes, I've wondered the same thing about the Belle Saison yeast. I've used it and liked it, and, like you say, it does taste Belgiany. Good idea about using non-fermentables to increase the body. You've got me thinking.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: BrewBama on April 11, 2015, 12:58:29 PM
I am diving in on this one.  I am brewing a Belgium Pale Ale tomorrow and will use the SafBrew Abbaye yeast.  If it does turn out more like an English Ale yeast then I'll just call it a Pale Ale.  LOL
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: unclebrazzie on April 20, 2015, 11:32:31 AM
Yes, I've wondered the same thing about the Belle Saison yeast. I've used it and liked it, and, like you say, it does taste Belgiany. Good idea about using non-fermentables to increase the body. You've got me thinking.

I have been wondering about the Belgian rep I keep hearing in context with Belle Saison and never got it. Until this weekend, when I had a bottle of my own MarisOtter-Summer-BelleSaison SMaSH which had just passed the one-year mark. Hops were all gone, but the unappetising flavours I've come to associate with BelleSaison had now evolved into something which, smelled and tasted, for want of a better word, Belgian. Not as in " Belgian Abbey beer" but more like "Belgian non-banana yeasty beer".

It reaffirms my understanding of saison as a beer which is, per definition, aged extensively.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Iliff Ave on June 02, 2015, 09:27:56 PM
I am diving in on this one.  I am brewing a Belgium Pale Ale tomorrow and will use the SafBrew Abbaye yeast.  If it does turn out more like an English Ale yeast then I'll just call it a Pale Ale.  LOL

Do you have any updates on this one Bama? I am hoping to get another opinion on this yeast.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on June 02, 2015, 10:19:06 PM
I'm drinking mine as I type. It's really nice now, dry, peppery, with a light body. But, it took four months to get this way. I like it very much, now. So, I think as long as you are not in a hurry for the beer, the Abbaye yeast is okay. But at this point, I don't know what the advantage over the liquid Belgians might be. Sure, dry yeast is great for its ease of use, but that's a long time to wait for a medium sized beer to age out. So, not sure that I recommend it or not.

I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative--I know the Belle Saison is good, but I like me an abbey ale or a patersbier as well as a saison.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: rharper on June 02, 2015, 10:42:44 PM
I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative

Um, isnt Safbrew the Fermentis brand?  ???
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on June 02, 2015, 10:44:21 PM
I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative

Um, isnt Safbrew the Fermentis brand?  ???

Yes, you're right! I mean the Lallemand.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: rjharper on June 02, 2015, 10:44:44 PM
I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative

Um, isnt Safbrew the Fermentis brand?  ???

Crap, apparently I have different profiles for my Forum ID, and my AHA membership? WTF did I do... :(
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Iliff Ave on June 03, 2015, 01:13:44 PM
I'm drinking mine as I type. It's really nice now, dry, peppery, with a light body. But, it took four months to get this way. I like it very much, now. So, I think as long as you are not in a hurry for the beer, the Abbaye yeast is okay. But at this point, I don't know what the advantage over the liquid Belgians might be. Sure, dry yeast is great for its ease of use, but that's a long time to wait for a medium sized beer to age out. So, not sure that I recommend it or not.

I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative--I know the Belle Saison is good, but I like me an abbey ale or a patersbier as well as a saison.

Thanks for the update. Keep me posted on the Lallemand Abbey strain when you get around to it. I have nothing against liquid yeast but am just looking for decent dry yeast alternatives similarly to what you stated. I am usually grain to glass in about a month so it sounds like the Fermentis strain is not worth the hassle.
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: Frankenbrew on June 03, 2015, 11:59:31 PM
I'm drinking mine as I type. It's really nice now, dry, peppery, with a light body. But, it took four months to get this way. I like it very much, now. So, I think as long as you are not in a hurry for the beer, the Abbaye yeast is okay. But at this point, I don't know what the advantage over the liquid Belgians might be. Sure, dry yeast is great for its ease of use, but that's a long time to wait for a medium sized beer to age out. So, not sure that I recommend it or not.

I've got the Fermentis Abbaye yeast on order, and will let you all know how that works out. I hope it is better than the Safebrew because I love dry yeast and would like to have a Belgian dry yeast alternative--I know the Belle Saison is good, but I like me an abbey ale or a patersbier as well as a saison.

Thanks for the update. Keep me posted on the Lallemand Abbey strain when you get around to it. I have nothing against liquid yeast but am just looking for decent dry yeast alternatives similarly to what you stated. I am usually grain to glass in about a month so it sounds like the Fermentis strain is not worth the hassle.

Sure thing!
Title: Re: Safbrew Abbaye Ale
Post by: narcout on November 20, 2016, 12:30:20 AM
I finally got around to giving this a try in a Belgian Pale after getting a packet for free at the NHC.

It kicked out a ton of sulphur during fermentation, more than any yeast I've ever used, but it's fairly moderate in the finished beer (and the beer is still pretty young).

The finish is mostly pepper, and maybe it's the power of suggestion, but I'm picking up on the slight almond flavor someone else noted. 

I've only had a few ounces so I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.  Right now, I think I will enjoy the keg but probably not brew with it again.