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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: mattybrass on August 18, 2014, 06:43:51 PM

Title: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: mattybrass on August 18, 2014, 06:43:51 PM
Hey,

I'm at the point in my brewing where I want to find a "house" yeast that I can use for the majority of my brewing. What do you guys use/recommend? I brew mostly american styles. For the wheats/belgians etc ill just buy new yeast.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: denny on August 18, 2014, 06:44:54 PM
I use WY1450 for pretty much all of my American styles.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: mattybrass on August 18, 2014, 06:52:57 PM
I use WY1450 for pretty much all of my American styles.

Would you say its your... favorite?  :o
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: erockrph on August 18, 2014, 07:30:58 PM
It depends on what you want out of your house strain. For me, if I were looking to have a house American Ale strain I'd try a bunch of yeasts that aren't 001/1056/US-05 and decide what one works the best in my usual recipes. In particular, I'd try them each in an IPA and a Porter to make sure they cover both hoppy and dark beers.

Not that there's anything wrong with Chico, but if I'm going to pick a house yeast I would like to get a house character that's different than 90% of the other beers out there. I'd probably settle on one of the cleaner English strains like WLP013 or WLP007. I'd want to get some character from my house strain.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: denny on August 18, 2014, 08:40:48 PM
I use WY1450 for pretty much all of my American styles.

Would you say its your... favorite?  :o

(http://jwtalk.net/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/doubleup.gif)
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 18, 2014, 09:26:21 PM
I use WY1450 for pretty much all of my American styles.

I need to try 1450 in an APA or IPA, Denny. I love it in American Brown, Porter and Stout.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 18, 2014, 09:56:31 PM
I like 1056 because its alcohol tolerant and applicable to any American style. There's a reason its so popular among homebrewers and craft breweries.

Since its so popular, its always available and super fresh from the LHBS.

If you don't make many high ABV beers, WLP002/WY1968/S04 is perfect for most American and English styles (also ciders), plus it clears super fast (if you're always bumping up against a deadline). Very low esters around 64F (think FW Union Jack), but ester profile is nice for bitter/mild. I've had diacetyl issues with it once or twice, but not since I started slowly raising temp after high krausen (kind-of diacetyl rest).
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 18, 2014, 10:12:30 PM
I guess it's tough to call 1056 a 'house yeast' per se, because of its clean character. But the clean character is exactly why I like it so much for American styles. I don't like anything getting in the way of the malt and hops in American styles. I save the esters, phenols and other yeast character for brewing European styles (where appropriate).
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on August 19, 2014, 01:06:56 AM
If you don't make many high ABV beers, WLP002/WY1968/S04 is perfect for most American and English styles (also ciders)

S-04 is WLP007, not WLP002.  I would like to see WLP002 offered in dry form.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: archstanton on August 19, 2014, 01:58:35 AM
If you don't make many high ABV beers, WLP002/WY1968/S04 is perfect for most American and English styles (also ciders)

S-04 is WLP007, not WLP002.  I would like to see WLP002 offered in dry form.


I asked white labs which yeast of theirs would be closest or equal to s04 and they said 002
Title: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: Stevie on August 19, 2014, 02:01:44 AM
Would wlp017 be the closest? Whitbread? Seasonal strain.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: reverseapachemaster on August 19, 2014, 03:18:24 PM
What qualities are you looking for in the beer? That makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: mattybrass on August 19, 2014, 07:28:10 PM
This is mainly going to be for american styles. The main thing im looking for is clean fermentation. I'm not as concerned about flocc since i keg/gelatin usually. Ill most likely be using the yeast for APA/IPA/IIPA/Blonde ales
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 19, 2014, 08:03:52 PM
If you don't make many high ABV beers, WLP002/WY1968/S04 is perfect for most American and English styles (also ciders)

I use 1968 in my high ABV old ale with great success.  I've also used it in an imperial stout.  It's regularly taken both these beers from >1.09 to <1.02.

Treated right, it does just fine with high OGs.  Big pitch, good aeration, good fermentation temps.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: The Professor on August 19, 2014, 09:44:40 PM
If you don't make many high ABV beers, WLP002/WY1968/S04 is perfect for most American and English styles (also ciders)
I use 1968 in my high ABV old ale with great success.  I've also used it in an imperial stout.  It's regularly taken both these beers from >1.09 to <1.02.
Treated right, it does just fine with high OGs.  Big pitch, good aeration, good fermentation temps.

I totally agree...it makes outstanding hi-test ales.
It's among my top 3 favorite yeasts.

my main go-to yeasts are:
1) The Survivor---my house strain, origins unknown, in use since the 1980s  (started as a multi-strain; I let then let them slug it out for close to 2 dozen successive repitches and then plated it.  god only knows what I wound up with after at least 25 years of mutation, but it works great in my setup for a wide variety of beers)
2) WY 1968
3) ECY "Old Newark Ale"  (becoming a real favorite over the last couple of years)

honorable mention:   dry s-04, but only when I'm in a hurry or doing a spur-of-the-moment brew session.  not bad at all for what it is.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: a10t2 on August 20, 2014, 02:24:26 PM
I really like 1272. Good performance, high flocculation, and the ester profile works well in both hoppy and malty American/British-style ales. I can really ramp up the esters with pitching/fermentation temperature too, which can add some nice complexity to something like a mild or porter.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: kmccaf on August 20, 2014, 02:36:03 PM
I really like 1272. Good performance, high flocculation, and the ester profile works well in both hoppy and malty American/British-style ales. I can really ramp up the esters with pitching/fermentation temperature too, which can add some nice complexity to something like a mild or porter.

I'm a big fan of 1469 for the same reasons given here, but more on the British side. Fermented low it can be very clean for American styles, but with a nice malt character.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: reverseapachemaster on August 20, 2014, 03:27:17 PM
This is mainly going to be for american styles. The main thing im looking for is clean fermentation. I'm not as concerned about flocc since i keg/gelatin usually. Ill most likely be using the yeast for APA/IPA/IIPA/Blonde ales

If you're looking for something that tastes like the craft beer you buy then the chico strain is probably where you want to start because that is what a lot of breweries use. You may decide you want something with more character in which case you are getting excellent recommendations on alternatives. I would stay away from picking something from a limited release unless you plan on keeping a culture rolling in your home. Last thing you want to do is fall in love with a strain you can't find.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: mattybrass on August 20, 2014, 03:39:18 PM
This will be one that i harvest the slurry from the previous batch. I would like something slightly more complex than the chico strain. Maybe ill try out that best of both worlds strain from white labs.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 20, 2014, 04:07:02 PM
This will be one that i harvest the slurry from the previous batch. I would like something slightly more complex than the chico strain. Maybe ill try out that best of both worlds strain from white labs.

I'll give +1 to 1272. I've used it several times - it's clean @ ~ 64F, a degree or two warmer and there's a soft, mild fruitiness. Sounds like what you might be after. It is reputed to be the Anchor Liberty strain.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 20, 2014, 04:27:43 PM
I use 1968 in my high ABV old ale with great success.  I've also used it in an imperial stout.  It's regularly taken both these beers from >1.09 to <1.02.

Treated right, it does just fine with high OGs.  Big pitch, good aeration, good fermentation temps.

I totally agree...it makes outstanding hi-test ales.

Well then... shame on me for perpetuating false info. Not sure why I've held this opinion... It must be because I don't care for the (slightly) lower attenuation and ester profile in big DIPAs.

Now I need to try it. A big ol' Enlgish Barleywine is on the docket, so I guess I'll brew that next!
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on August 20, 2014, 09:01:32 PM
I asked white labs which yeast of theirs would be closest or equal to s04 and they said 002

Well, someone gave you bad information because WLP002 is Fuller's strain.  S-04 is Whitbread B. WLP007 is also Whitbread B, and so is Wyeast 1098.   The delta in attenuation levels between WLP002 and S-04 should be a dead giveaway.   Whitbread B was selected for use in continuous tower fermentation vessels.   It's an extremely hardy yeast strain.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on August 20, 2014, 09:15:59 PM
I really like 1272. Good performance, high flocculation, and the ester profile works well in both hoppy and malty American/British-style ales. I can really ramp up the esters with pitching/fermentation temperature too, which can add some nice complexity to something like a mild or porter.

Wyeast 1272 is the same strain as Siebel Bry 97.  It's one of my favorite yeast strains as well. Bry 97 is less one dimensional than Siebel Bry 96 (a.k.a. "Chico", 1056, WLP001, and US-05).

I still believe that Bry 96 and Bry 97 are the two strains that were used at Ballantine's beer and ale breweries, respectively.  These strains are held by the USDA Agricultural Research Service NRRL collection.

NRRL Y-7407  (Bry 96?)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 2
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Beer pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S renal partial sequences.
 
NRRL Y-7408 (Bry 97?)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 4
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Ale pitching yeast
  Comments: ID from 26S rDNA partial sequences

Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 20, 2014, 09:38:15 PM
I really like 1272. Good performance, high flocculation, and the ester profile works well in both hoppy and malty American/British-style ales. I can really ramp up the esters with pitching/fermentation temperature too, which can add some nice complexity to something like a mild or porter.

Wyeast 1272 is the same strain as Siebel Bry 97.  It's one of my favorite yeast strains as well. Bry 97 is less one dimensional than Siebel Bry 96 (a.k.a. "Chico", 1056, WLP001, and US-05).

I still believe that Bry 96 and Bry 97 are the two strains that were used at Ballantine's beer and ale breweries, respectively.  These strains are held by the USDA Agricultural Research Service NRRL collection.

NRRL Y-7407  (Bry 96?)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 2
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Beer pitching yeast
  Substrate location: Ballantine Brewery, New Jersey, USA
  Comments: ID from 26S renal partial sequences.
 
NRRL Y-7408 (Bry 97?)
  Accession numbers in other collections: Lange 4
  Isolated from (substrate): BR, Ale pitching yeast
  Comments: ID from 26S rDNA partial sequences
If the Anchor Ale strain is from the Ballantine Ale brewery, I will have to give that a try on my next Ballantine IPA clone.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on August 20, 2014, 10:38:09 PM
Here's what we know about Anchor.  The yeast strain commonly known as Wyeast 2112 was originally introduced into the Anchor brewery in 1974 or 1975.  It is an old Wallerstein Labs strain.   This information is not second hand.  It came from Anchor's head brewer Mark Carpenter.

http://desdemoor.co.uk/anchor-and-the-birth-of-craft-beer/

"We brewed so rarely and didn’t have the ability to cultivate yeast so we would borrow yeast from other breweries every time. Then in 1974 or 1975 we got a very old strain of Wallerstein Labs lager yeast and that’s what we’ve been using ever since. Wallerstein Labs no longer exists but their yeast lives on here. We just collect it from the fermenters and reuse it. So many brewers today say they have to change the yeast after so many generations but we’ve never found that necessary."

Mike mentions their ale yeast in the same article.

“We also have an ale yeast we got years ago and that’s what we use for all our ales, even the wheat beer. We recently did a special high alcohol export stout for the Great British Beer Festival and for the first time in many years we brought in a different yeast.”

Wallerstein and Seibel were competitors. They both kept yeast culture collections.  Wallerstein Labs became the Wallerstein Company.  The Wallerstein Company was owned by Baxter Labs when they became embroiled in a patent infringement lawsuit in the seventies with the Danish life sciences company known today as Novo Nordisk, which is why the Wallerstein Company no longer exists (see http://openjurist.org/607/f2d/186/novo-terapeutisk-laboratorium-as-v-baxter-travenol-laboratories-inc-n-v).

Now, it does not take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.  Anchor created Liberty Ale in 1976.  Ballantine went out of business in 1972.  No deposits were made between Bry 96 and Bry 97, which leads me to believe that they were both deposited around the same time, if not at the same time.   Both strains hold relatively low accession numbers in the Siebel collection, which means that the strains came from an old American ale brewery. The only American ale brewery that is old enough is Ballantine.

From Siebel's web page (http://www.siebelinstitute.com/services/yeast/yeast-cultures):

"Bry 96

This is a flocculent top fermenting ale yeast from a brewery formerly operating on the East Coast of the United States. It produces a very clean ale flavor which has been well accepted in a number of breweries."
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: scottNU on August 21, 2014, 09:56:25 PM
I really like 1272. Good performance, high flocculation, and the ester profile works well in both hoppy and malty American/British-style ales. I can really ramp up the esters with pitching/fermentation temperature too, which can add some nice complexity to something like a mild or porter.

I agree.  1272 is my house strain and a very good and flexible performer.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: reverseapachemaster on August 23, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
I've read some things recently suggesting several breweries are using/transitioning to London Ale III as a house yeast. Anybody have thoughts on how this beer performs as an alternative to chico?
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: a10t2 on August 23, 2014, 06:19:27 PM
I've read some things recently suggesting several breweries are using/transitioning to London Ale III as a house yeast. Anybody have thoughts on how this beer performs as an alternative to chico?

I used it for a while in a pub setting. It works well for what it is. Very vigorous krausen, great for top cropping, which is what I needed at the time. Nicely flocculant, but it didn't attenuate well enough for me to use it as a true house strain. I had to use some sugars to get to ~80% ADF.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: chumley on August 27, 2014, 02:57:05 PM
One of the breweries here in town used WY1728 Scottish as a house strain, and all their beers are pretty good.  All of their year round beers use it, from Cream Ale to Stout.

http://blackfootriverbrewing.com/beer/ (http://blackfootriverbrewing.com/beer/)

From Wyeast's website:

Our Scottish ale strain is ideally suited for the strong, malty ales of Scotland. This strain is very versatile, and is often used as a “House” strain as it ferments neutral and clean. Higher fermentation temperatures will result in an increased ester profile.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 27, 2014, 06:08:18 PM
For my English bitters, Milds, etc...I try to keep some 1768 on hand to propagate - I like it and have even used it on a 60 Schilling Scottish Ale that was mashed pretty high and it finished off below 1.010, surprisingly.  That and 1450 for the American Ales pretty much could work for most of the lighter styles I brew.  For a bigger yeast for across the board - you could consider Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale yeast.  I tried it on an American light rye ale and it was superb.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: denny on August 27, 2014, 06:52:23 PM
For my English bitters, Milds, etc...I try to keep some 1768 on hand to propagate - I like it and have even used it on a 60 Schilling Scottish Ale that was mashed pretty high and it finished off below 1.010, surprisingly.  That and 1450 for the American Ales pretty much could work for most of the lighter styles I brew.  For a bigger yeast for across the board - you could consider Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale yeast.  I tried it on an American light rye ale and it was superb.

are you sure you mean 1768?  That's Rochefort yeast.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 27, 2014, 06:53:53 PM
For my English bitters, Milds, etc...I try to keep some 1768 on hand to propagate - I like it and have even used it on a 60 Schilling Scottish Ale that was mashed pretty high and it finished off below 1.010, surprisingly.  That and 1450 for the American Ales pretty much could work for most of the lighter styles I brew.  For a bigger yeast for across the board - you could consider Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale yeast.  I tried it on an American light rye ale and it was superb.

are you sure you mean 1768?  That's Rochefort yeast.

I thought 1762 was Rochefort Denny
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: denny on August 27, 2014, 06:57:23 PM
For my English bitters, Milds, etc...I try to keep some 1768 on hand to propagate - I like it and have even used it on a 60 Schilling Scottish Ale that was mashed pretty high and it finished off below 1.010, surprisingly.  That and 1450 for the American Ales pretty much could work for most of the lighter styles I brew.  For a bigger yeast for across the board - you could consider Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale yeast.  I tried it on an American light rye ale and it was superb.

are you sure you mean 1768?  That's Rochefort yeast.

I thought 1762 was Rochefort Denny

Right you are!  It was a test....;)
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 27, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
For my English bitters, Milds, etc...I try to keep some 1768 on hand to propagate - I like it and have even used it on a 60 Schilling Scottish Ale that was mashed pretty high and it finished off below 1.010, surprisingly.  That and 1450 for the American Ales pretty much could work for most of the lighter styles I brew.  For a bigger yeast for across the board - you could consider Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale yeast.  I tried it on an American light rye ale and it was superb.

are you sure you mean 1768?  That's Rochefort yeast.

I thought 1762 was Rochefort Denny

Right you are!  It was a test....;)

Absolutely !  Never thought otherwise.   :D
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: Fermented-minds on August 27, 2014, 07:35:34 PM
For a house yeast for American-style ales, I'd go with trusty ole Wyeast 1056 or WLP001. The yeast is a beast and it always chews through wort at a good clip. I usually get 80% apparent attenuation or a little higher if a portion of the fermentables is sugar, even with big beers like barleywines that have O.G.s of 1.110-1.120.

For Belgians, you should checkout The Yeast Bay Northeastern Abbey (http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/northeastern-abbey) and Dry Belgian Ale (http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/dry-belgian-ale). I have used the Northeastern Abbey with great success and the Dry Belgian Ale I'm currently using is chugging away. The Attenuation on the Dry Belgian Ale is reported to be very high and on of the beta testers for The Yeast Bay reported 100% apparent attenuation on his trials (http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/16/the-yeast-bay-dry-belgian-ale-a-preview/). Before The Yeast Bay, I used Wyeast 3787 with a lot of success for all things Belgian.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 28, 2014, 04:32:35 PM
I thought that Wyeast 1768 was a reserve collection strain, but it is not:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/he_s_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=20

I have not tried the Roquefort strain, but could be convinced if others think highly of it! I can compare it to the new Abbaye Ale dry yeast that I have going in primary on a Belgian Golden Strong presently...
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: erockrph on August 28, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
I thought that Wyeast 1768 was a reserve collection strain, but it is not:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/he_s_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=20

I have not tried the Roquefort strain, but could be convinced if others think highly of it! I can compare it to the new Abbaye Ale dry yeast that I have going in primary on a Belgian Golden Strong presently...
I'd stay away from the Roquefort strain, as well as the Stilton, Munster and Camembert strains.  ;)

Now Rochefort, that is second only to the Unibroue strain (WY3864 - sadly only a seasonal strain) for my favorite Belgian yeast.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: denny on August 28, 2014, 05:21:22 PM
I thought that Wyeast 1768 was a reserve collection strain, but it is not:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/he_s_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=20

I have not tried the Roquefort strain, but could be convinced if others think highly of it! I can compare it to the new Abbaye Ale dry yeast that I have going in primary on a Belgian Golden Strong presently...
I'd stay away from the Roquefort strain, as well as the Stilton, Munster and Camembert strains.  ;)

Now Rochefort, that is second only to the Unibroue strain (WY3864 - sadly only a seasonal strain) for my favorite Belgian yeast.

I use 3787 when I want less estery Belgian styles and 1762 for more estery styles.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on August 28, 2014, 05:26:43 PM
I thought that Wyeast 1768 was a reserve collection strain, but it is not:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/he_s_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=20

I have not tried the Roquefort strain, but could be convinced if others think highly of it! I can compare it to the new Abbaye Ale dry yeast that I have going in primary on a Belgian Golden Strong presently...
I'd stay away from the Roquefort strain, as well as the Stilton, Munster and Camembert strains.  ;)

Now Rochefort, that is second only to the Unibroue strain (WY3864 - sadly only a seasonal strain) for my favorite Belgian yeast.

Damn autocorrect!  I clearly meant to say smoked Gouda!

Thanks for the distinction, Denny.  It's good to get a concise assessment on some of these strains.  Maybe I'll do a split batch when space allows.
Title: Re: Choosing a house yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 28, 2014, 05:56:49 PM


Now Rochefort, that is second only to the Unibroue strain (WY3864 - sadly only a seasonal strain) for my favorite Belgian yeast.

 Rochefort is probably my favorite Belgian strain, but I love pretty much all the Belgian ones. Except for the cheesy ones.    ;)