Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: majorvices on September 20, 2014, 10:17:27 AM

Title: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 20, 2014, 10:17:27 AM
Which is your favorite one? I don't have many to choose from from my LHBS but currently the selections are S-04 and Nottingham. I've used the former but not the latter.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dmtaylor on September 20, 2014, 11:55:48 AM
I haven't used many besides Notty, which is a favorite.  But I think Notty might be too clean and high attenuating (77-78% every time) for most true English beer styles.  I have not been impressed with S-04 yet, but I only used it once.

Now on my last batch I just used the dry Windsor ale yeast, and it seems tasty, but attenuation really sucks.  I mashed at 150 F for 65 minutes, and only got 61% attenuation.  Now the recipe did have 20% crystal, so that might also play a role.  But the beer doesn't taste terribly thick and flabby either, it tastes quite good actually.  Might be worth a shot, but be sure to mash low and slow, and perhaps reserve it for low OG beers <1.050 so the flabbiness isn't too prevalent.  Windsor is also an absolute beast.  I pitched and fermented at 64 F, and it went from 0-61% attenuation in just 48 hours -- no exaggeration.  It is also literally a bottom-fermenting yeast -- you will get virtually zero krauesen, it just settles to the bottom immediately and does all its work down there, and stays there.  I have been swirling the fermenter (still in primary) once or twice a day for the past few days to try to eek a couple more points of attenuation out of it, but it is almost crystal clear again after a few hours, so it might just be time to bottle it now.
Title: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: BrewBama on September 21, 2014, 02:33:00 AM
I pitched Windsor in the Porter in my Primary. It rocked the house for a cpl days like nothing I've ever seen even with liquid yeast and a starter and then hit a brick wall. I haven't put a hydrometer on it yet. So... Jury is still out.

BTW what LHBS?  I didn't know we had one. I order online.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Joe Sr. on September 21, 2014, 02:52:02 AM
I don't like Notty.  I get a weird tartness from it in lower gravity beers.

Side by side with WY 1968 (I know, not dry) it has that weird tartness in lower gravity beers, but oddly I like it better in higher gravity beers.

Notty performs well, no argument there.  I just don't think its as clean as people say and I don't care for the characteristic flavor.

I've not used s-04, but I've stocked it as a replacement for Notty.

I've had no bad experiences with Windsor.  Doesn't attenuate as well, IIRC.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: erockrph on September 21, 2014, 03:22:28 AM
I haven't had good luck with Notty, but those were some brews early on in my brewing experience. I've never used it since, so I can't say how much was the yeast's fault vs mine. I did get the tartness that many have reported, plus a buttload of diacetyl.

S-04 is a good strain, but it does give a slighly odd bready note in some beers. I generally save it for beers like porters and stouts. For ESB's and the like, where I'm really looking for a nice yeast character, I stick to liquid yeast.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 21, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
I pitched Windsor in the Porter in my Primary. It rocked the house for a cpl days like nothing I've ever seen even with liquid yeast and a starter and then hit a brick wall. I haven't put a hydrometer on it yet. So... Jury is still out.

BTW what LHBS?  I didn't know we had one. I order online.

Pearly Gates (Now I think it is just called Pearly's) is a health food store that just recently moved from their location of 40 years on the Parkways and now is on Governor's Dr. literally a quarter mile from YHB. They have very limited selection of ingredients but they do carry stuff like US-05 and some specialty malts plus carboys, buckets, bungs, air locks, etc. I with more people would go there so they would start carrying liquid yeast.

Also, Wish You Were Beer out in Madison has a pretty good homebrew shop.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 21, 2014, 12:51:13 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will try Windsor if the LHBS has it. I'll probably get it going and then pitch some us-05 to make sure it attenuates properly.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: BrewBama on September 21, 2014, 01:13:17 PM
I've been to Pearly Gates but everything looks so old so I didn't buy. I did get a siphon and a carboy but no ingredients. I'll check out wish you were beer. I heard they were starting to get some stuff in.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 21, 2014, 01:31:26 PM
Yeah, you have got to be pretty picky there. I would never buy hops there, especially since they don't even refrigerate them. But most of their malts are actually pretty fresh and they move through the dry yeast selection pretty fast.

The new location is a lot nicer. If you need dry yeast or airlocks or a pound of roasted barley or something like in a jiffy and don't mind spending a little more it's not a bad place to go.

There used to be a shop in town called "BamaBrew" which is what your name should be. ;) He actually had a really nice shop. Too bad he didn't last more than a year or so. I bet if the store opened today it would do a lot better.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: S. cerevisiae on September 21, 2014, 02:57:23 PM
I decided to brew with dry yeast this year during the warm months in order to avoid having to propagate yeast from slant.  The dry strains used were Bry 97, S-04, US-05, Nottingham, and Windsor.   The state of the art with respect to dry brewing yeast production has come a long way since the bad old days.  The two standouts were Bry 97 and S-04.  I detect absolutely no difference in performance between these strains when used in dry form or off of slant. 

S-04 (Whitbread "B") is a hardy strain that has a unique British ester profile.   Whitebread "B" is kind of like the Worthington Whiteshield strain (Wyeast 1028) in that people either love it or they hate it.  The people who tend to hate it are those who use Bry 96 in everything.   Nottingham does not produce much in the way of a recognizable ester profile.  It's better than US-05, but anything is better than Bry 96 if one is looking for an ale yeast strain with character.   Windsor produces a British-style ester profile, but it does not ferment maltotriose; therefore, it needs to be pitched with a strain that does ferment the trisaccharide to some extent (e.g., Windsor + Nottingham).
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Joe Sr. on September 21, 2014, 04:23:32 PM
I have done the Windsor+Nottingham combo and found that it worked well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dmtaylor on September 22, 2014, 01:14:41 AM
Great idea using two yeasts with Windsor -- I think I might give that a try!
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 22, 2014, 11:07:07 AM
If the shop has Windsor I will give the Win/Notty a try. Thanks for the suggestions!
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dmtaylor on September 22, 2014, 12:08:36 PM
Now I just tasted my Pete's Wicked Ale again that is still in primary but ready to bottle... and although the attenuation has stopped dead at 61% and FG=1.021, it doesn't taste nearly that heavy, not at all, so I have decided to bottle it as-is without any need for Notty or other additional yeast.  Just thought I should mention it.  Seems a good idea to add more yeast, but in my case, at least, it doesn't seem to be necessary.  I'll admit, I'm surprised, but I try not to argue with my sense of taste versus "the numbers".
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 22, 2014, 12:24:47 PM
I try not to argue with my sense of taste versus "the numbers".

I agree totally. The numbers don't drink our beers.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: chumley on September 22, 2014, 04:39:13 PM
My favorite dry yeast for English styles, hands down, is Munton's Gold. It's the closest dry yeast to Fuller's yeast that I have ever used.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dmtaylor on September 22, 2014, 05:20:37 PM
I forgot about Munton's.  I believe I've had pretty good experience with that one as well, although it's been many many years.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: beersk on September 22, 2014, 05:21:05 PM
My favorite dry yeast for English styles, hands down, is Munton's Gold. It's the closest dry yeast to Fuller's yeast that I have ever used.
Ya don't say?? I may have to try this sometime...
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: erockrph on September 22, 2014, 05:45:49 PM
My favorite dry yeast for English styles, hands down, is Munton's Gold. It's the closest dry yeast to Fuller's yeast that I have ever used.
You serious? I've never tried Munton's because I can't say I've ever heard anything good about it. If it's really that close to Fullers I'd definitely give it a shot. My biggest complaint about dry English strains is that the ones I want aren't available.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: chumley on September 22, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
Yes I am serious.  But be sure to get Munton's Gold, not Munton's.  Munton's is meh, has that bready thing going on like S-04.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Joe Sr. on September 22, 2014, 06:32:13 PM
When I think Munton's I think of the little foil packet that used to come with cans of extract back in the 90s, stamped with "ale yeast" or something like that.

But I know that we are worlds away from those days.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 22, 2014, 06:54:33 PM
When I think Munton's I think of the little foil packet that used to come with cans of extract back in the 90s, stamped with "ale yeast" or something like that.

But I know that we are worlds away from those days.

+1.   My thoughts too. Things have come sooooo far since then.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: brewsumore on September 24, 2014, 04:35:48 AM
I just used Mangrove Jack's Burton Union Yeast for a premium bitter.  I've only tasted the hydro sample when racking to keg (it's carbing/conditioning), but among the "English" dry yeasts I'd say that it's as close as I've come to the quality of a specialty liquid yeast.

Per Rebel Brewer website:

Suitable for English ales. Ideal for Ordinary Bitter, Extra Special Bitter (ESB), Golden Ale and more.
Mangrove Jack’s Burton Union Yeast M79 is very similar to Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley or White Labs WLP023.

Mangrove Jack's also carries M07 dry yeast, English Ale Yeast, which I have not tried yet:

Per Rebel Brewer website:
Ideal for brewing India Pale Ale, ESB, Porter, Stouts, Barley Wine and more.
Mangrove Jack’s British Ale Yeast M07 is very similar to White Labs WLP007.

I don't care for either Nottingham or S-04.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: S. cerevisiae on September 24, 2014, 05:20:06 AM
Mangrove Jack's also carries M07 dry yeast, English Ale Yeast, which I have not tried yet:

Per Rebel Brewer website:
Ideal for brewing India Pale Ale, ESB, Porter, Stouts, Barley Wine and more.
Mangrove Jack’s British Ale Yeast M07 is very similar to White Labs WLP007.

I don't care for either Nottingham or S-04.

S-04 is the same strain as WLP007 and Wyeast 1098; namely, Whitbread "B." 
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 24, 2014, 10:29:31 AM
Mangrove Jack's also carries M07 dry yeast, English Ale Yeast, which I have not tried yet:

Per Rebel Brewer website:
Ideal for brewing India Pale Ale, ESB, Porter, Stouts, Barley Wine and more.
Mangrove Jack’s British Ale Yeast M07 is very similar to White Labs WLP007.

I don't care for either Nottingham or S-04.


S-04 is the same strain as WLP007 and Wyeast 1098; namely, Whitbread "B."

That's what I had always heard but the last time I tried it I thought that it had a good bit of diacetyl so I always stuck with liquid yeast. I love WLP007 - it's my favorite English strain.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: erockrph on September 24, 2014, 11:57:15 AM
S-04 is the same strain as WLP007 and Wyeast 1098; namely, Whitbread "B."
That's what I had always heard but the last time I tried it I thought that it had a good bit of diacetyl so I always stuck with liquid yeast. I love WLP007 - it's my favorite English strain.
I haven't gotten diacetyl, but I've gotten the "bready" thing that a lot of brewers say they get. I don't generally repitch dry yeast, but if it's the same strain as 007 & 1098, then I'm wondering whether it starts to act more like the liquid brands after a repitch or two. It seems like there's some quirk with the Fermentis version that doesn't give quite the same result as the liquid right out of the gate.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: majorvices on September 24, 2014, 12:01:56 PM
It's been 10 years or more since I have used it but I definitely got diacetyl. Might have been fermenting too cool.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 09, 2015, 07:47:58 PM
Bumping an old thread  but a great one. I am primarily a dry yeast user. Its cheap, easy and works for me with the basic brews I brew. I never know exactly when I will be brewing and for the beers I brew I havent noticed any better rrsults for the same strains in liquid form. I do use liquid for certain styles but I mosy brew everyday beers. There are a lot of new yeasts out there. Does anyone have any experience with the Mangrove Jack yeasts? I used the M07 British Ale once but dont really remember it. I have used S-04 and that is a go to yeast for me like US-05 is as well. Has anyone used the Mangrove Burton Union? It is said to be great for English Bitters which is the batch im brewing next. Then there is the Muntons Gold...I have never considered Muntons yeast but after reading through this thread it looks like the Muntons Gold can be something to try. Especially if its anything similar to the Fullers strain.
I also tried Windsor once in a Mild but I cant remember much about that one either. Another new dry yeast I am curious about is the Mangrove Newcastle yeast said to be great for dark beers...I considered it for a Bitter but it might be too much for that style unless someone can say otherwise.

So anyone have anything else to add about any of these yeasts?
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 09, 2015, 08:01:40 PM
There's a whole thread on the Mangrove Jack yeasts.  I think the consensus was they weren't that great, but you'll have to read the thread.

Windsor is OK.  It tends to finish high.  I haven't used it recently, but I used it a fair amount in the past and liked it.  If you're going Windsor, mix it with Nottingham.  The mix makes both better.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: stpug on December 09, 2015, 08:13:36 PM
Bumping an old thread  but a great one. I am primarily a dry yeast user. Its cheap, easy and works for me with the basic brews I brew. I never know exactly when I will be brewing and for the beers I brew I havent noticed any better rrsults for the same strains in liquid form. I do use liquid for certain styles but I mosy brew everyday beers. There are a lot of new yeasts out there. Does anyone have any experience with the Mangrove Jack yeasts? I used the M07 British Ale once but dont really remember it. I have used S-04 and that is a go to yeast for me like US-05 is as well. Has anyone used the Mangrove Burton Union? It is said to be great for English Bitters which is the batch im brewing next. Then there is the Muntons Gold...I have never considered Muntons yeast but after reading through this thread it looks like the Muntons Gold can be something to try. Especially if its anything similar to the Fullers strain.
I also tried Windsor once in a Mild but I cant remember much about that one either. Another new dry yeast I am curious about is the Mangrove Newcastle yeast said to be great for dark beers...I considered it for a Bitter but it might be too much for that style unless someone can say otherwise.

So anyone have anything else to add about any of these yeasts?

I've found them to be pretty long laggers. Aside from that, they results have been mixed based on strain.

British Ale: did not like, too neutral, vodka-like esters (fusels?), better yeasts are available for this profile
Burton Union: excellent and unique british yeast, nutty quality, moderately fruity, great yeast
Newcastle Dark: yeast character is mild but pleasing, VERY LOW attenuator (mash in the 140s for sure)
US West Coast: excellent alternative to chico, more character than chico but subtle, more tart/tangy, very good
Belgian Ale: expect saison character, similar to belle saison but a little more subtle, good

That's my experience so far. I have Workhorse in my fridge but have read poor reports on it so I'm saving it for a special day :D
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 09, 2015, 10:31:40 PM
There's a whole thread on the Mangrove Jack yeasts.  I think the consensus was they weren't that great, but you'll have to read the thread.

Windsor is OK.  It tends to finish high.  I haven't used it recently, but I used it a fair amount in the past and liked it.  If you're going Windsor, mix it with Nottingham.  The mix makes both better.

I just looked for that since you mentioned it. Thanks. I searched the individual yeasts never tried searching Mangrove as a whole. But now you have me interested in that mix of Notty/Windsor. Are you talking a 50/50 mix?
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 09, 2015, 10:34:39 PM
Bumping an old thread  but a great one. I am primarily a dry yeast user. Its cheap, easy and works for me with the basic brews I brew. I never know exactly when I will be brewing and for the beers I brew I havent noticed any better rrsults for the same strains in liquid form. I do use liquid for certain styles but I mosy brew everyday beers. There are a lot of new yeasts out there. Does anyone have any experience with the Mangrove Jack yeasts? I used the M07 British Ale once but dont really remember it. I have used S-04 and that is a go to yeast for me like US-05 is as well. Has anyone used the Mangrove Burton Union? It is said to be great for English Bitters which is the batch im brewing next. Then there is the Muntons Gold...I have never considered Muntons yeast but after reading through this thread it looks like the Muntons Gold can be something to try. Especially if its anything similar to the Fullers strain.
I also tried Windsor once in a Mild but I cant remember much about that one either. Another new dry yeast I am curious about is the Mangrove Newcastle yeast said to be great for dark beers...I considered it for a Bitter but it might be too much for that style unless someone can say otherwise.

So anyone have anything else to add about any of these yeasts?

I've found them to be pretty long laggers. Aside from that, they results have been mixed based on strain.

British Ale: did not like, too neutral, vodka-like esters (fusels?), better yeasts are available for this profile
Burton Union: excellent and unique british yeast, nutty quality, moderately fruity, great yeast
Newcastle Dark: yeast character is mild but pleasing, VERY LOW attenuator (mash in the 140s for sure)
US West Coast: excellent alternative to chico, more character than chico but subtle, more tart/tangy, very good
Belgian Ale: expect saison character, similar to belle saison but a little more subtle, good

That's my experience so far. I have Workhorse in my fridge but have read poor reports on it so I'm saving it for a special day :D

Thanks for sharring. Im intersted in trying the Burton Union for an English Bitter. I asko didnt care for the M07...too nuetral and finished very dry. Didnt leave much there.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 09, 2015, 10:57:35 PM
There's a whole thread on the Mangrove Jack yeasts.  I think the consensus was they weren't that great, but you'll have to read the thread.

Windsor is OK.  It tends to finish high.  I haven't used it recently, but I used it a fair amount in the past and liked it.  If you're going Windsor, mix it with Nottingham.  The mix makes both better.

I just looked for that since you mentioned it. Thanks. I searched the individual yeasts never tried searching Mangrove as a whole. But now you have me interested in that mix of Notty/Windsor. Are you talking a 50/50 mix?

Yes.  Pretty much a 50/50.  I've pitched Windsor (or maybe Notty) after the other had a lag.  I'm pretty sure that was in a porter.  The mix was delicious.  I pitched the slurry into an old ale.  Same result.

Separately, I don't think they stand out and I don't care too much for Notty by itself.

A couple others on the forum have had the same experience.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Pricelessbrewing on December 10, 2015, 01:28:52 AM
Interesting blend, I like the idea.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 10, 2015, 01:31:38 AM
The Nottingham/Windsor combo is good.  US-05 has a weird oxidized note to it that makes the strain only suitable for hoppy beers.  S-04 is probably my favorite dry yeast strain, but it can be temperamental.  While dry yeast has come a long way since the bad old days, I have yet to use a dry culture that performs as well as a properly handled cultured or liquid yeast culture.  I generally do not brew hoppy beers, so yeast character, good or bad, shines through the hops.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Pricelessbrewing on December 10, 2015, 01:39:23 AM
s-04 tips, suggestions? I haven't use it in about two years, but I have some on hand to use in an emergency (meant to grab s-05 but didn't pay attention and it was in the wrong bin)
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 10, 2015, 10:24:07 AM
s-04 tips, suggestions? I haven't use it in about two years, but I have some on hand to use in an emergency (meant to grab s-05 but didn't pay attention and it was in the wrong bin)


S-04 is a great dry yeast (probably one of my favorite and most used next to US-05) but like mentioned it can be picky. In my experiences with it I like to use it around 66* for a few different styles. It ferments well and clears up right away. I have used it in Bitters, Browns and Porters. At mid 60's its clean but has some English character and its kind of "bready". At low 60's I think it can be too clean/nuetral for English styles but would work well at these temps for American styles. At warmer ale temps I have heard it gets quite estery or can have a tart flavor. But I haven't experiemented with it at lower or higher temps, mostly in the mid 60's with good results. I cant say I havent liked it in darker beers but I have liked it best in an English Bitter. I can have an Ordinary Bitter brewed, fermented, cleared and kegged a week later. I brewed an old school type of IPA over the summer and I almost used S-04, at lower 60's I think it would have been great.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dilluh98 on December 10, 2015, 12:19:16 PM
s-04 tips, suggestions? I haven't use it in about two years, but I have some on hand to use in an emergency (meant to grab s-05 but didn't pay attention and it was in the wrong bin)


S-04 is a great dry yeast (probably one of my favorite and most used next to US-05) but like mentioned it can be picky. In my experiences with it I like to use it around 66* for a few different styles. It ferments well and clears up right away. I have used it in Bitters, Browns and Porters. At mid 60's its clean but has some English character and its kind of "bready". At low 60's I think it can be too clean/nuetral for English styles but would work well at these temps for American styles. At warmer ale temps I have heard it gets quite estery or can have a tart flavor. But I haven't experiemented with it at lower or higher temps, mostly in the mid 60's with good results. I cant say I havent liked it in darker beers but I have liked it best in an English Bitter. I can have an Ordinary Bitter brewed, fermented, cleared and kegged a week later. I brewed an old school type of IPA over the summer and I almost used S-04, at lower 60's I think it would have been great.

+1. Whitbread B behaves exactly this way for me. I have tried it in the upper 60s on a brown and did not like the results. I know some people like that extreme ester fruitiness (also some tart) in English styles but it doesn't do it for me generally.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on December 10, 2015, 02:23:34 PM
s-04 tips, suggestions? I haven't use it in about two years, but I have some on hand to use in an emergency (meant to grab s-05 but didn't pay attention and it was in the wrong bin)


S-04 is a great dry yeast (probably one of my favorite and most used next to US-05) but like mentioned it can be picky. In my experiences with it I like to use it around 66* for a few different styles. It ferments well and clears up right away. I have used it in Bitters, Browns and Porters. At mid 60's its clean but has some English character and its kind of "bready". At low 60's I think it can be too clean/nuetral for English styles but would work well at these temps for American styles. At warmer ale temps I have heard it gets quite estery or can have a tart flavor. But I haven't experiemented with it at lower or higher temps, mostly in the mid 60's with good results. I cant say I havent liked it in darker beers but I have liked it best in an English Bitter. I can have an Ordinary Bitter brewed, fermented, cleared and kegged a week later. I brewed an old school type of IPA over the summer and I almost used S-04, at lower 60's I think it would have been great.

+1. Whitbread B behaves exactly this way for me. I have tried it in the upper 60s on a brown and did not like the results. I know some people like that extreme ester fruitiness (also some tart) in English styles but it doesn't do it for me generally.

I agree with this as well. In my experience, any thing at or above ~67-68F and it starts to add undesirable characteristics as evident in a recently wheat hybrid beer I did. When fermented cool, it is very clean and the English characteristics are much less obvious.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dilluh98 on December 10, 2015, 02:35:11 PM
All this being said - I really do love whitbread b. I'm going to have to do another cycle of beers with the fullers strain (WLP002) just as a reference point as I've been using WLP007 for so long now.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 10, 2015, 02:37:48 PM
I agree with this as well. In my experience, any thing at or above ~67-68F and it starts to add undesirable characteristics as evident in a recently wheat hybrid beer I did. When fermented cool, it is very clean and the English characteristics are much less obvious.


+1.  I use it on the cool end (63-64F) and it makes a clean beer with very faint ester.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2015, 09:15:24 PM
i used wlp007 for many brews when i started brewing. Great yeast that to me is like the equivalent of wlp090....works very fast, great attenuation on even high OG beers, drops clear, and depending on what you are brewing and want, you can ferment cooler (low 60s) to minimize esters or a little warmer (67-68) for nice ester contribution.  after about 48-60 hours you can start to bring that temp up if in the low 60's, and it will attenuate well.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: dilluh98 on December 10, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
I love WLP090 for most APA and AIPAs - especially west-coast versions. You're right - they (007 and 090) do actually behave quite similarly.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: The Professor on December 11, 2015, 05:16:22 PM
The Nottingham/Windsor combo is good.  US-05 has a weird oxidized note to it that makes the strain only suitable for hoppy beers.  S-04 is probably my favorite dry yeast strain, but it can be temperamental.  While dry yeast has come a long way since the bad old days, I have yet to use a dry culture that performs as well as a properly handled cultured or liquid yeast culture.  I generally do not brew hoppy beers, so yeast character, good or bad, shines through the hops.
Agree with all of the above, particularly the point about dry yeasts having been improved but still falling short of the quality from liquid cultures.  As far as favorites go, in recent months I've been brewing much more with the various variants/versions of Seibel BR97 and it has become my favorite in terms of performance, flavor, and ability to flocculate.  I've used the dry version of BRY97 a number of times, and it also seems to have the same characteristics as the wet versions.
Like many yeasts that have been co-opted with names suggesting American pedigree (such as 'West Coast Ale' and the like), it did originate in the UK.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: coolman26 on December 11, 2015, 10:25:43 PM
i used wlp007 for many brews when i started brewing. Great yeast that to me is like the equivalent of wlp090....works very fast, great attenuation on even high OG beers, drops clear, and depending on what you are brewing and want, you can ferment cooler (low 60s) to minimize esters or a little warmer (67-68) for nice ester contribution.  after about 48-60 hours you can start to bring that temp up if in the low 60's, and it will attenuate well.

007 for me is top 2 ale yeasts I use.  007 and 1450 are my favorites.  I brewed an IPA and fermented at 64 and raised to 68.  The character of that yeast is fantastic IMO.  I'm on my last keg of it and can't get enough of it.  I just wish 1450 would flocculate like 007.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on February 11, 2016, 06:08:05 PM
I ended up using some Muntons Gold yeast that I have been wanting to try. I brewed a Premium/Best Bitter and pitched 2 6g packets of rehydrated yeast at 65* and I oxygenated only slightly. It fermented 65-66*. It started showing some activity within hours of pitching and by morning was bubbling away. I seen full krausen at day two and by day 3 it was dropping. Day for the krausen was all but gone and only a bubbles were on top of the beer while I can see it was still doing it's thing. I bumped the temps to 68* after 4 days and it's finishing up and I can see the beer is actually clearing. I'm going to dry hop it soon and see how well it clears, then cold crash just before kegging.

I'm interested in trying the final beer since a few have mentioned it's actually a good English yeast. Another reason I'm so glad to have found this place. Just more and more bits of good info going around. So far it seems to be a good performer...just have to see what it did for the beer.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: chumley on February 12, 2016, 04:37:14 PM
Check the gravity before you cold crash, Porterhous.  I found that Munton's Gold is similar to Fuller's as it tends to drop fast, and you may need to rouse it a couple of times to get to your target FG.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: mabrungard on February 12, 2016, 09:10:26 PM
Just remember that calcium content of the water directly influences how quickly yeast flocculate. High calcium content causes faster and more complete clearing of beer. That is a reason why Burton ales were noted for their clarity.

If your yeast flocs too fast, you may have too much calcium in your water. Remember, yeast get ALL the calcium that they need for their metabolism from the malt. The extra provided by the water is not really needed. Zero calcium water can be used to brew with, it just might take forever for the beer to clear!
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on February 13, 2016, 07:34:36 AM
Thanks guys. Chumley it was your recomendations that got me to try the Muntons. Ill check the gravity before crashing. Its dry hopping now and when I added tthe hops yesterday there was still some activity or at least some co2 coming out of solution which I was glad to see for the dry hopping.

Martin my tested tap water has about 35ppm Ca. I didnt do any mineral additions this time around. I dont thi k the yeast is floccing prematurely, just maybe that it is naturally a strong floccing yeast. I bumped the temps and gave it a rousing at dry hopping so that should help it finish off.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Steve Ruch on February 13, 2016, 05:13:43 PM
Some people will cringe but I use regular Munton's in some beers. I split a batch of ordinary bitter between S-04 and Munton's. I liked the S-04 better at first, but the Munton's half as the beers got a couple of weeks on them.  I used it on an ESB that went from 1.050 to 1.009 and turned out pretty good.
And I made a pretty good coconut cider with it.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: mabrungard on February 14, 2016, 12:55:41 AM
I liked the S-04 better at first, but the Munton's half as the beers got a couple of weeks on them. 

I also have noted that S-04 beers were pretty nice initially, but developed a sharp flavor with time. Since it was multiple beers, I'm guessing it was something to do with the yeast and not an infection...unless the yeast had a bit of an infection.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: brewsumore on February 14, 2016, 02:11:41 AM
Bumping an old thread  but a great one. I am primarily a dry yeast user. Its cheap, easy and works for me with the basic brews I brew. I never know exactly when I will be brewing and for the beers I brew I havent noticed any better rrsults for the same strains in liquid form. I do use liquid for certain styles but I mosy brew everyday beers. There are a lot of new yeasts out there. Does anyone have any experience with the Mangrove Jack yeasts? I used the M07 British Ale once but dont really remember it. I have used S-04 and that is a go to yeast for me like US-05 is as well. Has anyone used the Mangrove Burton Union? It is said to be great for English Bitters which is the batch im brewing next. Then there is the Muntons Gold...I have never considered Muntons yeast but after reading through this thread it looks like the Muntons Gold can be something to try. Especially if its anything similar to the Fullers strain.
I also tried Windsor once in a Mild but I cant remember much about that one either. Another new dry yeast I am curious about is the Mangrove Newcastle yeast said to be great for dark beers...I considered it for a Bitter but it might be too much for that style unless someone can say otherwise.

So anyone have anything else to add about any of these yeasts?

I've found them to be pretty long laggers. Aside from that, they results have been mixed based on strain.

British Ale: did not like, too neutral, vodka-like esters (fusels?), better yeasts are available for this profile
Burton Union: excellent and unique british yeast, nutty quality, moderately fruity, great yeast
Newcastle Dark: yeast character is mild but pleasing, VERY LOW attenuator (mash in the 140s for sure)
US West Coast: excellent alternative to chico, more character than chico but subtle, more tart/tangy, very good
Belgian Ale: expect saison character, similar to belle saison but a little more subtle, good

That's my experience so far. I have Workhorse in my fridge but have read poor reports on it so I'm saving it for a special day :D

Thanks for sharring. Im intersted in trying the Burton Union for an English Bitter. I asko didnt care for the M07...too nuetral and finished very dry. Didnt leave much there.

I recently brewed and am now drinking an English Brown Ale fermented with MGJ Burton Union.  It's the 2nd time I've used that yeast and I love it and have read other positive comments in past research.  I start in the low-mid 60's and ramp over a couple days to 68F and leave it there until done.

Very clean.  None of the twangy bready thang of US-04 (I quit using that yeast).  Fairly low - mid ester and fruitiness, very easy drinking but English character.  I have read on sites including Rebel Brewer that its the Thames Valley yeast.

And you can sprinkle it on, which I did with 1.5 packets (15 g) per 5.5 gal of wort at 1.056 and that worked great.  It is a bit of a slow starter, but my ferment completed in 6 - 7 days, and it floculated well, although a few mini-floaties left down by the yeast cake when racking.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: brewsumore on February 14, 2016, 02:15:08 AM
I've heard that the other MGJ dry English yeast is not as good.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: Steve Ruch on February 14, 2016, 04:56:19 PM
I liked the S-04 better at first, but the Munton's half as the beers got a couple of weeks on them. 

I also have noted that S-04 beers were pretty nice initially, but developed a sharp flavor with time. Since it was multiple beers, I'm guessing it was something to do with the yeast and not an infection...unless the yeast had a bit of an infection.

I still liked the S-04 half, but the Munton's half seemed to get better with a bit of time.
Title: Re: Dry yeast for English styles
Post by: PORTERHAUS on April 21, 2016, 02:00:45 AM
Check the gravity before you cold crash, Porterhous.  I found that Munton's Gold is similar to Fuller's as it tends to drop fast, and you may need to rouse it a couple of times to get to your target FG.

I like the Bitter that I used the Muntons Gold in but it didn't clear for crap. I had to use gelatin to drop the yeast haze, even after a couple weeks in the keg. Is this something you have found with Munton's Gold?