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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 01:53:32 PM

Title: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 01:53:32 PM
always used a copper wort chiller to cool my wort. effective, just takes a bit more time to get down to 50-60F and uses a ton of well water. i have run my input line into ice to chill the well water further- that helps but not as fast as I'd like it be.

for those who have gone beyond the wort chiller, what are some preferred options and additions to cooling wort quickly- to me that's about 10-15 minutes vs. 30+ minutes.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on December 04, 2014, 02:11:58 PM
I need to improve my cooling process as well. Cooling in the summer takes too long. I have considered buying a cheaper immersion cooler to keep submerged in ice water that would feed the cooler in the kettle. That adds a step that I would prefer to avoid.

I think I just need to get a bigger, more efficient cooler.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Stevie on December 04, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
I use a pre-chiller here in Texas as the ground water is 80 degrees in the summer. A pump with a whirlpool can cut chilling time in half or more. Small investment and easy to clean.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: majorvices on December 04, 2014, 02:28:40 PM
This may not be the advice you are looking for but I rarely cool my wort past 80 degrees before running off to a fermentor and letting it brought down to pitching temps overnight. There is no harm in doing that, if your sanitation techniques are sound you can feel safe within 12 hours of hitting fermentor.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Multifaceted on December 04, 2014, 02:40:45 PM
I need to figure out or procure a better wort chilling method as well. Even in the winter with sub 50°F ground water, with my puny 25' x 3/8" stainless IC it takes me about 25 minutes to get my wort down to 85-90°F, and I usually go through close to 20 gallons of water. It's not wasted though, since I collect most of it in buckets then schlep it down to the basement to pour into the washing machine.

I often chill it as close to 80°F within 20 minutes or 4 buckets worth of water is collected then transfer to carboy, seal with sanitized foil and rubber band, then set inside fermentation chamber and cool to pitching temp. It usually only takes a few more hours to do, which isn't at all bad. I typically pitch my yeast later in the evening once the wort temp has equalized and is at the desired degree.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: kmccaf on December 04, 2014, 02:58:07 PM
This may not be the advice you are looking for but I rarely cool my wort past 80 degrees before running off to a fermentor and letting it brought down to pitching temps overnight. There is no harm in doing that, if your sanitation techniques are sound you can feel safe within 12 hours of hitting fermentor.

+1 I do this more and more. Since most of my brewing occurs in the Winter, when I am done brewing, I will cool it to 80ish, run it off into the fermenters with sanitized bottles of ice. That usually gets it to around 70 by the time the transfer is done. I then let them sit in the carhold until before I go to sleep. Take them inside and pitch the yeast. Lagers sit in the sun room overnight, and get the yeast in the morning.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Jimmy K on December 04, 2014, 03:02:38 PM
Instead of pre-chilling water, chill with your normal water to 80-100F or whenever it stops cooling quickly. Then switch to running ice water through the chiller using a pump. It'll be much more efficient and keep a high temperature difference when you get to lower temps.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 03:08:40 PM
so as mentioned, I also will chill with wort chiller and then put in freezer for lagers where i'm looking for pitching temp of 45-48F.

for ales, generally just looking to get to 60F. and just deciding if there's a better way to just get  this done more quickly so I can be done with it. sounds like a pump recirculating ice water may be a relatively easy and cost effective way to go.  any links for pumps you guys use and have a had good experience with?
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Stevie on December 04, 2014, 03:14:23 PM
High flow pond pumps will work fine for ice water. Amazon is a good source.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 03:21:28 PM
High flow pond pumps will work fine for ice water. Amazon is a good source.

steve- is this what you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/PP80006-Waterfalls-Vertical-Hydroponics-Aquaponics/dp/B006M6MSHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417706280&sr=8-2&keywords=high+flow+pond+pump
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: blatz on December 04, 2014, 03:23:58 PM
Instead of pre-chilling water, chill with your normal water to 80-100F or whenever it stops cooling quickly. Then switch to running ice water through the chiller using a pump. It'll be much more efficient and keep a high temperature difference when you get to lower temps.

+1

harborfreight has one for <$40.

and if you can either agitate the wort of the chiller in the wort, it will work even faster.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Stevie on December 04, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
High flow pond pumps will work fine for ice water. Amazon is a good source.

steve- is this what you're talking about?

http://www.amazon.com/PP80006-Waterfalls-Vertical-Hydroponics-Aquaponics/dp/B006M6MSHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417706280&sr=8-2&keywords=high+flow+pond+pump (http://www.amazon.com/PP80006-Waterfalls-Vertical-Hydroponics-Aquaponics/dp/B006M6MSHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417706280&sr=8-2&keywords=high+flow+pond+pump)


Should work fine. Might be able to find something a bit cheaper.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Stevie on December 04, 2014, 03:43:33 PM
Instead of pre-chilling water, chill with your normal water to 80-100F or whenever it stops cooling quickly. Then switch to running ice water through the chiller using a pump. It'll be much more efficient and keep a high temperature difference when you get to lower temps.

+1

harborfreight has one for <$40.

and if you can either agitate the wort of the chiller in the wort, it will work even faster.


I use this for my keg cleaner. It includes a garden hose fitting, so maybe it is a better choice compare to a pond pump. Harbor freight also has pond pumps for pretty cheap.


http://www.harborfreight.com/16-horsepower-submersible-utility-pump-68422-8394.html
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 03:59:29 PM
great-thanks for the info. picked up 1/4HP with garden hose fitting-30 gals per minute so should be good to go. $47.55 delivered tomorrow on amazon prime.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X05G1A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: denny on December 04, 2014, 05:06:22 PM
always used a copper wort chiller to cool my wort. effective, just takes a bit more time to get down to 50-60F and uses a ton of well water. i have run my input line into ice to chill the well water further- that helps but not as fast as I'd like it be.

for those who have gone beyond the wort chiller, what are some preferred options and additions to cooling wort quickly- to me that's about 10-15 minutes vs. 30+ minutes.

I still use an immersion chiller, but I use it in conjunction with a March pump to do recirculated chilling.  I can get 6 gal. from boiling to 60F in 10-15 min with my well water.  Although I bought the pump specifically for this, once I had it I found I could use it for other stuff, too.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: beersk on December 04, 2014, 07:25:46 PM
Instead of pre-chilling water, chill with your normal water to 80-100F or whenever it stops cooling quickly. Then switch to running ice water through the chiller using a pump. It'll be much more efficient and keep a high temperature difference when you get to lower temps.
This is what I do when the tap water is too warm.

Quote from: wort-h.o.g.
great-thanks for the info. picked up 1/4HP with garden hose fitting-30 gals per minute so should be good to go. $47.55 delivered tomorrow on amazon prime.
You might want to consider getting a shockbuster deal too. http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30339005-3-Wire-Adapter/dp/B000P8COIS/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1417721324&sr=8-9&keywords=shockbuster
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: 69franx on December 04, 2014, 08:32:48 PM
That Shockbuster looks quite handy!
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: jtoots on December 04, 2014, 09:18:20 PM
I'll chime in with the obvious... are you stirring while chilling?  This has an incredible impact on the chilling rate.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 04, 2014, 10:06:22 PM
I'll chime in with the obvious... are you stirring while chilling?  This has an incredible impact on the chilling rate.

yeah stirring for sure.

not a big deal, just thought i'd try to cut my wasted water and time chilling down. when my lager freezer is being used for lager fermentation at 45-50F, im restricted to just using immersion chiller.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 05, 2014, 12:30:31 AM
always used a copper wort chiller to cool my wort. effective, just takes a bit more time to get down to 50-60F and uses a ton of well water. i have run my input line into ice to chill the well water further- that helps but not as fast as I'd like it be.

for those who have gone beyond the wort chiller, what are some preferred options and additions to cooling wort quickly- to me that's about 10-15 minutes vs. 30+ minutes.

I still use an immersion chiller, but I use it in conjunction with a March pump to do recirculated chilling.  I can get 6 gal. from boiling to 60F in 10-15 min with my well water.  Although I bought the pump specifically for this, once I had it I found I could use it for other stuff, too.

I have a 50 Ft immersion chiller with the Jamil Z. return that will move the wort, which causes better convection of heat from the wort to the chiller. It will take 10 gallons down to <65F in <14.5 minutes in the winter. Summer not as fast, heck a coupe years back with a hot summer you could not get to 65F here. Ice and a pond pump solves those situations.

Maximize the chiller area. Maximize the Delta T across the chiller (cold feed water)
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 07, 2014, 06:26:39 PM
This may sound like overkill, because I pretty much do what the Major does for my lagers after going through a ZChiller counter flow chiller, but I may try using both that and the recirc immersion chiller in tandem.  I bet I can get down near my well water temp (low 50's) in just a few minutes.  Then I should get it to pitch temp in a short time, even for lagers.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: dzlater on December 07, 2014, 07:16:39 PM
What I had been doing is using the immersion chiller till it hit it's limit, usually around 80. Then I would put the kettle in an ice bath and give it an occaisional stir. This worked well till I got a new kettle that doesn't fit in the cooler I use for the ice bath. With the cooler winter weather it doesn't matter but in the spring I am planning on switching to the pond pump with ice water method.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: BrewBama on December 07, 2014, 09:54:11 PM

This may not be the advice you are looking for but I rarely cool my wort past 80 degrees before running off to a fermentor and letting it brought down to pitching temps overnight. There is no harm in doing that, if your sanitation techniques are sound you can feel safe within 12 hours of hitting fermentor.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this. I can get it to 80*F with the immersion chiller then I open the kettle valve to gravity feed splashing thru a fine mesh strainer into the fermenter which gets it down to the 70*F range. The basement does the rest.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: pete b on December 08, 2014, 12:22:07 AM
I put a chiller wand, which is a food grade plastic thing with a handle that you fill with water and keep in the freezer. I put it in the middle of the coil of my water chiller. Brings 5 gallons of wort to 70 in about15 min, maybe less. Easier to clean than a pump. You can get them a restaurant suppliers. I let the worth get the last few degrees to pitching temp overnight.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: trapae on December 08, 2014, 06:26:49 AM
I have 2 chillers attached in tandem.  Hose water goes to the first chiller that is in a bucket full of ice, then the chilled water travels to the second chiller in my kettle.  This chiller also now has a whirlpool arm with March pump.  I can now get 6 gal of wort from boiling to 62deg in 12 min in SoCal summer.  Took 20min to get to 48deg for recent  lager.  I also use the pump to move strike and sparse water and to move chilled wort into fermenter.  Saves my back.
Title: Re: advice on faster wort chilling beyond the copper wort chiller
Post by: Statsmats on December 09, 2014, 04:51:03 AM
Here was a simple technique that shaved another 10 off the chill time on my second boil a couple weekends ago. I opened the drain about 1/2 way before putting the kettle in. Then, I ran the output water from the immersion chiller into the sink around the kettle...when the sink filled up it then ran over into the second sink. This seemed to grab a little extra heat from the outside of the kettle. Total time went from about 30 min to 20 min...and it was an easy thing to do. Not sure of the water temp.