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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: homoeccentricus on December 06, 2014, 04:34:55 PM

Title: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 06, 2014, 04:34:55 PM
Hi folks,

I'm going to brew Drew's Citra Saison, with Weyermann floor-malted pils and WYeast French Saison. This will be my first saison, and, being a Belgian, I want this to be as good as possible, because there's nothing so sad as a sad saison.

Any suggestions on how to make this saison stand out? Of course we all know that it should be bone-dry, but what else? I want this to be the best lawnmower beer in the world (behind Fantome Saison, of course).

Drew suggests to put some foil on top of the fermenter instead of an airlock to prevent stalling from pressure. Is there independent corroboration on the forum? How is the foil wrapped to avoid tension being built up?

Also, I'm not sure about the fermentation temperature. Should I just let the temperature rise naturally, or increase it? People on a Belgian forum claim that when they visited the Dupont brewery, they saw temperatures as high as 35C (95 in Non-Standard).
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: Iliff Ave on December 06, 2014, 04:38:34 PM
DuPont uses the 3724 strain which requires very different handling and temps. 3711 is very easy to use and I normally keep around 70f due to laziness. Others here can give good advice regarding that strain...
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: kmccaf on December 06, 2014, 04:46:27 PM
I wouldn't go higher than 75 f myself with the 3711 strain. However, The DuPont strain does indeed do well at 90, if you want to go down that road. 3711 goes well with Citra though, and you should make a tasty beer.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: erockrph on December 06, 2014, 07:07:39 PM
Unlike DuPont, 3711 is about as robust a yeast strain as you will find. I usually just let it go at ambient in my basement, which is only about 62F (~17C) in the spring/summer when I brew my saisons. After a week, I put on my Brew belt to raise the temp. I usually allow about a week longer than a normal ale to finish up. I find that it takes its time to finish up the last point or two of fermentation. I get a bit of tartness, but not as much pepper/spice as Dupont at that fermentation temp.

The great thing about 3711 is the mouthfeel. Even though it finishes bone dry, it has a nice juicy/full mouthfeel. It makes a simple saison that really reminds me of a dry white wine. It's a fantastic lawnmower beer, and the juiciness and acidity are perfect for a hop like Citra.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 06, 2014, 09:43:54 PM
OK, with the French Saison I'll stay under 75. Anything else I can do to make this beer shine?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: morticaixavier on December 06, 2014, 11:10:19 PM
make sure to carbonate it high enough. the aroma will really pop and it will cleans the palate after each sip.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 06, 2014, 11:19:47 PM
make sure to carbonate it high enough. the aroma will really pop and it will cleans the palate after each sip.

Agreed. Makes a big difference.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: brewinhard on December 07, 2014, 12:22:47 AM
In my experience, no simple sugars are needed when using 3711 provided you have a fairly simple grain bill.  A low mash temp is also not really necessary either.  You could probably get away with mashing around 150-152F and just be fine.  You will not need the foil on the carboy as 3711 does not stall in the same way that WY 3724 can. 
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 07, 2014, 12:35:00 AM
Just checked my latest saison today, fermented with 3711.

Mashed high and fermented low (50s)  before allowing it free rise. Not as dry as I'd like but I'm going to give it a week or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: erockrph on December 07, 2014, 04:47:46 AM
OK, with the French Saison I'll stay under 75. Anything else I can do to make this beer shine?
I like to target a lower pH (mash pH 5.3) to help accentuate the acidity from the 3711. That's a matter of personal preference, though. It comes out a bit tart that way.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 07, 2014, 10:19:01 AM
The recipe calls for 7% table sugar with 6.5% ABV. In or out?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: JT on December 07, 2014, 10:34:40 AM
The simple sugar will fully attenuate, helping to give it a dry finish.  In.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 07, 2014, 12:28:18 PM
Sugar added:
  1. begin/middle/end of boil
  2. begin/middle/end of fermentation
  3. at some other moment in the brewing process (please specify  :P)
  4. doesn't matter
?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: JT on December 07, 2014, 12:42:17 PM
Your choice.  I would only say don't add it at the beginning of fermentation.  Either way my process is to dissolve the sugar in about a cup of hot water.  I add this to the boil (I do about 15-30 minutes prior to end).  I've taken to dissolving sugar in water first after I had an incident with Belgian syrup cooking on the bottom of my boil kettle. 
If adding during fermentation, let the sugar water cool first.  Adding during fermentation could be a good way to wake up stubborn yeast that aren't attenuating your beer as much as you'd like. 
For my next saison, I was going to try adding during late fermentation, around 75% complete.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 07, 2014, 01:32:28 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 07, 2014, 03:46:55 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 07, 2014, 04:27:14 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.

Yes, you are probably right. I have to admit that the dessert sugar thing above is said about tripels, and the like, not about saisons.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 07, 2014, 04:30:13 PM
DuPont

Oh, and to make sure that nobody makes any mistakes, DuPont makes kevlar, Dupont beers.  8)
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: morticaixavier on December 07, 2014, 04:34:07 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.

Yes, you are probably right. I have to admit that the dessert sugar thing above is said about tripels, and the like, not about saisons.

The whole lazy yeast thing is dodgy if you ask me. with a 6.5%abv beer it's not going to be a problem. there are two good reasons to add sugar during the end of fermentation: if you are using a delicate aromatic sugar like honey and you want to preserve the aroma as much as possible adding it to the fermenter will help. And when you are making a very big beer where the added gravity from the sugar will make the starting conditions much harder for the yeast.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: brewinhard on December 07, 2014, 09:44:44 PM
The recipe calls for 7% table sugar with 6.5% ABV. In or out?

I don't think you will need it.  As much as I like dry saison's I also prefer them to finish in the 1.004-1.008 range to have a little body in there to support the high levels of carbonation.  But that is my personal preference. 

If you do plan on adding sugar, if you add it at the beginning of the boil then your IBU calculations will be more accurate.  If you add it later in the boil (last 10 minutes) then the IBU's will be a shy bit more (which is definitely okay for a saison) simply because you removed some of the overall sugars that the hop oils and acids would be isomerizing in. 
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 08, 2014, 09:15:34 PM
I'll be a good boy and leave the sugar in as per Drew's recipe. I'll even brew all the recipes from the book without any change whatsoever, as long as I can skip the shroom beer. Me no like shroom beer.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: brewinhard on December 08, 2014, 11:28:08 PM
You probably just haven't tried the right kind of shrooms yet.. ;D
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: dbeechum on December 09, 2014, 05:30:57 AM
mmmmm... citra saison - that one when done right with good citra hops is amazeballs
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 09, 2014, 09:02:20 AM
You probably just haven't tried the right kind of shrooms yet.. ;D

Maybe not, but I've tried one mushroom beer that is easily in my top 5 of worst beers ever: Desprat Tête Noire, made with "cèpes d’Auvergne". In principle they are amongst the best mushrooms in the world, and I'll gladly collect them in the woods, prepare and eat them. But in beer? "The horror! The horror!”
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: reverseapachemaster on December 09, 2014, 03:48:49 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.

Yes, you are probably right. I have to admit that the dessert sugar thing above is said about tripels, and the like, not about saisons.

The whole lazy yeast thing is dodgy if you ask me. with a 6.5%abv beer it's not going to be a problem. there are two good reasons to add sugar during the end of fermentation: if you are using a delicate aromatic sugar like honey and you want to preserve the aroma as much as possible adding it to the fermenter will help. And when you are making a very big beer where the added gravity from the sugar will make the starting conditions much harder for the yeast.

There is actually science that supports the premise that sacc gives up the fight if you give it a wort with too much glucose. It's one reason why you can get a stalled or stuck fermentation right at the beginning. If sacc has enough glucose to consume then it won't release the enzymes to break down more complex sugars. But you really have to go wild with glucose and only glucose.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: morticaixavier on December 09, 2014, 03:50:47 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.

Yes, you are probably right. I have to admit that the dessert sugar thing above is said about tripels, and the like, not about saisons.

The whole lazy yeast thing is dodgy if you ask me. with a 6.5%abv beer it's not going to be a problem. there are two good reasons to add sugar during the end of fermentation: if you are using a delicate aromatic sugar like honey and you want to preserve the aroma as much as possible adding it to the fermenter will help. And when you are making a very big beer where the added gravity from the sugar will make the starting conditions much harder for the yeast.

There is actually science that supports the premise that sacc gives up the fight if you give it a wort with too much glucose. It's one reason why you can get a stalled or stuck fermentation right at the beginning. If sacc has enough glucose to consume then it won't release the enzymes to break down more complex sugars. But you really have to go wild with glucose and only glucose.

do you have a link to something about that? I ask out of curiousity. I have done the late addition and still do when I'm using honey or maple syrup. it sounds like it's not much of an issue from our perspective but I would like to see it anyway.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: reverseapachemaster on December 09, 2014, 03:56:28 PM
Everybody has their perfect strategy for saisons. I wouldn't target trying to make the perfect saison off the bat because you can and should experiment to find what you love.

Personally I am not a huge fan of saisons that have been dried down to the low single digits in FG. I find them too watery and lacking in malt character. There are good very low FG saisons when you are also using brett and/or acidifying bacteria but beers with just sacc and a lot of sugar added to the kettle or fermentor are just not the same.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: reverseapachemaster on December 09, 2014, 03:56:59 PM
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.

I just don't think it's necessary, especially with saison. Saison yeasts are such voracious eaters that attenuation is rarely a problem. I can get 3724 down to ~ 1.002 and 3711 easily down to 1.000 by adding the sugar to the kettle, assuming I use any. I often don't.

Yes, you are probably right. I have to admit that the dessert sugar thing above is said about tripels, and the like, not about saisons.

The whole lazy yeast thing is dodgy if you ask me. with a 6.5%abv beer it's not going to be a problem. there are two good reasons to add sugar during the end of fermentation: if you are using a delicate aromatic sugar like honey and you want to preserve the aroma as much as possible adding it to the fermenter will help. And when you are making a very big beer where the added gravity from the sugar will make the starting conditions much harder for the yeast.

There is actually science that supports the premise that sacc gives up the fight if you give it a wort with too much glucose. It's one reason why you can get a stalled or stuck fermentation right at the beginning. If sacc has enough glucose to consume then it won't release the enzymes to break down more complex sugars. But you really have to go wild with glucose and only glucose.

do you have a link to something about that? I ask out of curiousity. I have done the late addition and still do when I'm using honey or maple syrup. it sounds like it's not much of an issue from our perspective but I would like to see it anyway.

Let me see if I can find it.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 28, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
I have tasted my citra saison. Best beer I have ever made. I am so grateful for the recipe and the advice.
Still, one question: although the beer ended at 1002, I still seem to taste some residual sugar. And I write "seem" because I'm not even very sure it's sweet. What could that be? The wheat? The citra? Something else?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 28, 2015, 06:32:09 PM
I have tasted my citra saison. Best beer I have ever made. I am so grateful for the recipe and the advice.
Still, one question: although the beer ended at 1002, I still seem to taste some residual sugar. And I write "seem" because I'm not even very sure it's sweet. What could that be? The wheat? The citra? Something else?

If you used 3711 , it leaves a fuller mouthfeel than the FG would lead you to believe.  And fruity hops like Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado,etc., definitely give the beer a fruity flavor.  I think your brain gets tricked into thinking that the fruity hop character is actual sweetness where there is none.  But it sure can seem like it. BTW, nice job, sounds good !
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: erockrph on January 28, 2015, 07:34:07 PM
I have tasted my citra saison. Best beer I have ever made. I am so grateful for the recipe and the advice.
Still, one question: although the beer ended at 1002, I still seem to taste some residual sugar. And I write "seem" because I'm not even very sure it's sweet. What could that be? The wheat? The citra? Something else?

If you used 3711 , it leaves a fuller mouthfeel than the FG would lead you to believe.  And fruity hops like Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado,etc., definitely give the beer a fruity flavor.  I think your brain gets tricked into thinking that the fruity hop character is actual sweetness where there is none.  But it sure can seem like it. BTW, nice job, sounds good !
+1 - 3711 produces a fair amount of glycerol, which leads to a nice mouthfeel despite finishing bone dry. Oily, citrusy hops will also leave an impression of sweetness even though they're not sweet. Which is why there are a lot of lousy commercial IPA's, IMO. Underattenuation plus fruity hops is just not pleasant to me.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 28, 2015, 07:41:16 PM
Oily, citrusy hops will also leave an impression of sweetness even though they're not sweet. Which is why there are a lot of lousy commercial IPA's, IMO. Underattenuation plus fruity hops is just not pleasant to me.


Totally agree. Limiting crystal and mashing low lets you get away with pretty fruity hop character. I guess a fair number of breweries must see it differently. To each his own.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 29, 2015, 09:10:38 PM
Ok, makes sense. Thanks!
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: troybinso on January 29, 2015, 09:16:38 PM
Alcohol tastes sweet as well, and if your beer finished at 1.002 then there is a pretty good chance  you have a decent amount of alcohol in there.

Fruity esters from the Saison yeast also contribute to the appearance of sweetness.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: pinnah on January 29, 2015, 09:21:43 PM
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: 69franx on January 29, 2015, 09:28:09 PM
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.
Yes, I'd like to check it out too
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 29, 2015, 10:36:11 PM
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.

I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on January 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.

I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...

isn't it in beer wiki?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 29, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
Alcohol tastes sweet as well, and if your beer finished at 1.002 then there is a pretty good chance  you have a decent amount of alcohol in there.


+1.  Good catch. I should've mentioned that too.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: pinnah on January 31, 2015, 05:14:14 PM
I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...

 :) Sounds like it might only get better for you.

Excellent form. Thanks for letting us know where to find it.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 02, 2015, 08:35:16 PM
Interesting thread :)
I was in dubio about Citra saisons; I tend to equate Citra with fresh hoppiness, and saisons are (almost by definition) not fresh.
But then I got handed a box of fresh medlars by a friend, with the express directive to brew a saison with them. I could've picked Saaz, but gravitated to Citra from the get-go, so here goes: Saison Cul de Chien.

Made a 5 gal. batch, comprising 36% Pilsner, 36% pale and 28% wheat malt.
Mashed on the low end at 150°F, where it gradually petered down to about 140 (my mash tun needs an insulation coat).
70' boil.
0.5 ounces of Citra @70' (26 IBU)
1.0 ounces of Citra @ 10' (6 IBU)
1.5 ounces of Citra @ flameout (0 IBU)

5g of black pepper corns and zest of 1 lemon @10'.

Cooled to 68°F and pitch with French Saison (second generation 3711, kindly donated by homoeccentricus).
Fermented at 71°F, ramping to 77 over the course of a week; dropped from 1.063 to 1.002.

Racked to secondary and split in three batches.

1) basic version. Will likely be dryhopped with more Citra.
2) Cul de Chien: added syrup I made from about 2 dozen bletted medlars, half a lemon, and sugar.
3) basic + Orval dregs for Brett funk and rustic saison character.

I intend to leave all three in secondary untill late spring, and bottle them at 2.5 - 3 volumes of CO2.

I must say I'm quite please with that French Saison. I liked it a lot better than the Fermentis Belle Saison i've used for saisons so far. I split my yeast cake in half. One half will be returned to the donating brewer, the other half will make me more saison :)

Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on February 03, 2015, 11:49:12 AM

3) basic + Orval dregs for Brett funk and rustic saison character.

There's a very strong rumor that there is no longer any brett in Orval. Do you notice any brettish development?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 03, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
There's a very strong rumor that there is no longer any brett in Orval. Do you notice any brettish development?

The bottle I used is over a year old. There's definitely Brett still being used at bottling: the beer has that classic  brett character all over it. Completely different from the fresh beer. My expectation is that the Brett will impart noticable rustic flavours to my own saison in about half a year. I'll bottle it then, which should make the citra still noticable by the time it's drinkable in the historic sense (mid-to-late summer) and possibly improving with maturation for another three years or so.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: dbeechum on February 04, 2015, 07:00:23 PM
For 5.5 gallons at 1.058, 51 IBUs, 6.5% ABV
GRAIN BILL
6 lbs Pilsner Malt
4 lbs Wheat Malt
0.5 lbs Munich Malt
0.7 lbs White Table Sugar

MASH SCHEDULE
Rest
149°F 60 minutes

HOPS
0.7 oz Magnum Pellet 12%AA 90 minutes
1.8 oz Citra Pellet 11%AA 5 minutes

OTHER INGREDIENTS
1⁄2 tablet Whirlfloc 10 minutes

YEAST
WY3711 French Saison
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on February 04, 2015, 08:19:06 PM
come on! You are giving away that recipe for free? And I had to buy the whole book! 
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: dbeechum on February 04, 2015, 08:46:44 PM
come on! You are giving away that recipe for free? And I had to buy the whole book! 

loss leader promotion! :)
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: 69franx on February 04, 2015, 09:28:12 PM
I bought the book as well. I think table of contents lists it as on page 25, but I believe it's on 26. Don't have it in front of me at the moment. Another note for errata Drew or am I remembering incorrectly?

edit: it is listed as 125 but is on 126, very minor detail, just a little fyi
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on February 04, 2015, 10:04:37 PM
Tsssk, that would explain the loss leader thing.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: pinnah on February 06, 2015, 03:16:47 PM
Classy Drew. 8) Your marketing techniques must be working because the book is now out of stock!!

Very elegant.
Wow, I would have seriously over-Citrasized my attempts.  Thanks.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: Stevie on February 06, 2015, 03:22:25 PM
In stock on Amazon. Also there is always the Kindle edition.


And never mind - It was in stock when I looked a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 06, 2015, 09:23:44 PM
Just tasted homoeccentricus' Citra Saison.
Fresh and young, which means yay Citra, but also hmmm saison?

I liked it a lot, with a few minor buts. Citra was dosed just right, and paired quite well with the wheat. That being said: wheat has a tartness which I often find distracting. In this case, it left me wanting for something more than only Citra to pair it with.
Interesting beer in that it was obviously very dry, but not empty (except for my remark about the Citra-wheat combo). Yeast presence was maybe not as pronounced as I'd expected, but I gather he fermented slightly cooler than I did, making for a cleaner, wheatier beer.

This is an excellent quencher at this stage: fresh and refreshing, light without using the dreaded "crisp" word. Perhaps not as saison-y in yeast profile, but after a hot day of harvesting, I'd gladly dig up a jug of this and wash away the chaff.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: homoeccentricus on February 07, 2015, 08:28:43 AM
Just tasted homoeccentricus' Citra Saison.
Fresh and young, which means yay Citra, but also hmmm saison?

I liked it a lot, with a few minor buts. Citra was dosed just right, and paired quite well with the wheat. That being said: wheat has a tartness which I often find distracting. In this case, it left me wanting for something more than only Citra to pair it with.
Interesting beer in that it was obviously very dry, but not empty (except for my remark about the Citra-wheat combo). Yeast presence was maybe not as pronounced as I'd expected, but I gather he fermented slightly cooler than I did, making for a cleaner, wheatier beer.

This is an excellent quencher at this stage: fresh and refreshing, light without using the dreaded "crisp" word. Perhaps not as saison-y in yeast profile, but after a hot day of harvesting, I'd gladly dig up a jug of this and wash away the chaff.

Thank you for the positive points. I blame Drew entirely for the flaws.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: unclebrazzie on February 07, 2015, 03:11:55 PM
I blame Drew entirely for the flaws.

Don't we all?
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: unclebrazzie on March 09, 2015, 03:10:28 PM
1) basic version. Will likely be dryhopped with more Citra.
2) Cul de Chien: added syrup I made from about 2 dozen bletted medlars, half a lemon, and sugar.
3) basic + Orval dregs for Brett funk and rustic saison character.


Reporting, with a couple of weeks of secondary behind us.

1) coming along nicely. Citra pairs well with the 3711. Nice and dry, without being watery.
3) Brett is barely noticeable, but a nice addition. Brings the whole beer together. Curious how this will develop further as time goes by.
2) slightly tannic, but the medlars impart a nice rustic somethingness which pairs well with the hops and the yeast. A little extra fermentation.

All 3 have turned clear if slightly hazy. Turning into quite decent brews if I say so myself.
Title: Re: citra saison
Post by: dbeechum on March 10, 2015, 04:04:21 PM
I blame Drew entirely for the flaws.

Don't we all?

<eeyore> Story of my life. </eeyore>