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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: homoeccentricus on December 10, 2014, 07:01:42 am

Title: do you use dry yeast
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 10, 2014, 07:01:42 am
Question for the more advanced brew folks. Do any of you still use dry yeast at all? If so, which ones and when/why?

Still somewhat lacking in the zythological department, I myself tend to use only S-4 and US-05, probably not coincidentally because these are neutral yeasts.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 10, 2014, 07:05:08 am
I keep S05 on hand for short notice brewing - having 2 kids in various activities, I brew on short notice occasionally. But I prefer liquid cultures and will use one time permitting.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 10, 2014, 07:13:39 am
I also have US-05 on hand.

Just used BRY-97 to give it a try in a Ballantine IPA clone.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 10, 2014, 07:17:45 am
I mainly use yeast from a personal yeast bank that I maintain on agar slants.  However, still use dry yeast from time to time.  In fact, every batch of beer that I made between May and October of this year was made using dry yeast. 
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 10, 2014, 07:19:15 am
Just used BRY-97 to give it a try in a Ballantine IPA clone.

Was your lag time measured in days?
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Stevie on December 10, 2014, 07:19:38 am
I use it a few times a year. Short notice is the main driver, but if I'm going to brew a beer with Chico and have nothing planned for the slurry, I'll opt for a dry.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: theoman on December 10, 2014, 07:32:56 am
Yes, most of the time. I always have some s-05 on hand and usually s-04, though I've only used it a couple times. I recently used Danstar Belle Saison with excellent results. I have a packet of Nottingham I haven't used yet. I also have a Saflager 34/70 I'll use before the winter is over.

Why? Mostly because I'm cheap and lazy.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 10, 2014, 07:36:23 am
Just used BRY-97 to give it a try in a Ballantine IPA clone.

Was your lag time measured in days?

It was days for rehydrated yeast. Since you had stated that fact, it was RDWHAHB.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 10, 2014, 07:43:06 am
I use dry yeast as much as possible and plan to use it even more in the future, as quality is so wonderful these days and so many strains available that I haven't tried yet.  US-05 and Notty and W-34/70 are all staples in my refrigerator at all times.  I also love Cote des Blancs for my ciders.  I am still playing with all the different dry yeasts to determine which ones are my favorites for different styles.  I want to try one of the German wheat ones soon.  I hear good feedback on all of them.  Also I loved the new Belle Saison yeast, it is truly fantastic.  I don't brew saison very often, but when I do, I shall always use that one.

While I love to play with dry yeast, I experiment with liquid yeasts almost as much.  On my last couple of batches (both Belgians) I tried Wyeast (for the first time for Belgians).  Maybe my own fault, but I was disappointed with both batches, which turned out great previously when using equivalent White Labs yeasts.  For most styles requiring liquid yeasts (you still can't find a suitable dry yeast for every style), I'll more likely stick with White Labs when possible, or if by chance there's a new dry yeast to try, I'll try that and see how it turns out.

Lots of room to play on all fronts, that's for certain.  There are a lot of excellent dry yeasts out there, no need to fear.  Perhaps unfortunate with dry yeasts is that there just isn't a ton of information and reviews out there on a lot of them like there are with most liquid yeasts.  But that's still no reason to fear them unless you hear a lot of negative reviews on one particular strain, and if so then try to find a different dry substitute from another manufacturer or whatever.  There's more dry strains coming out all the time, it's a growing business and I'm glad for it, as dry yeast has a much longer shelf life, more reliable in my view, and doesn't need a starter, so it's cheaper, and doggonnit, it's just plain better in most ways, for many styles.  Once they develop a good dry yeast for every style, which I believe eventually they will in another 10 years or so, then I'll never use liquid yeast at all anymore.  Cuz why should we?
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: theDarkSide on December 10, 2014, 07:43:17 am
US-05 and S-04 always on hand.  I also keep packets of Nottingham for my ciders.  Recently I did an Octoberfest with 34/70 which worked very well...I just need to adjust the recipe (it was v 1.0).

Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 10, 2014, 07:46:55 am
I also keep packets of Nottingham for my ciders.

+100.  Notty is another excellent yeast for ciders.  To those interested, take note.  Much better than US-05 for ciders as well.  US-05 turns out bone dry and super tart... which is fine if that's what you want but many people don't.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 10, 2014, 07:53:14 am
I don't have a LHBS that I can get to easily, so I always have dry yeast on hand for short-notice brewdays (and short notice for me is less than 7-10 days; enough time to order a yeast online and grow up a starter if needed). I use US-05 for just about all of my American-style ales. Liquid yeast is not worth the hassle for me for styles where yeast doesn't play that big of a role.

I also keep S-04 and 34/70 on hand for English ales and lagers, respectively. I'm not a huge fan of S-04, but it will do in a pinch for an impromptu brown ale or porter. There are several liquid yeasts I prefer the flavor profile of, so S-04 isn't my first choice for those styles the way US-05 is for American ales. That has nothing to do with the fact that it's a dry yeast, it's just a flavor preference. If there was a dry 1968 or 1469, I'd use it all the time.

34/70 makes a nice lager, but WY2633 has become my house lager strain. I have to plan out my lagers, because my keezer also doubles as my fermentation chamber. So I almost always have time to order or grow up a fresh pitch of liquid yeast.

Lalvin 71B is also on hand at all times for meads. Ciders usually get S-04, although I've been using 71B this season and I think I like it a bit better.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 08:53:40 am
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I do have a question for Eric & Dave.  I know you two do small batches.  Do you use the whole packet or just part and how do you split it up?
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 08:58:47 am
Using dry now for quick in between brews and cider. S-04, us-05, notti on hand.


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Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 10, 2014, 09:02:39 am
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I do have a question for Eric & Dave.  I know you two do small batches.  Do you use the whole packet or just part and how do you split it up?
I'm brewing 3-gallon batches mainly. For that batch size I'll generally just pitch 1 full packet. Since these are typically clean American ale styles, I'm not as worried about potentially suppressing ester formation by overpitching a bit. It's also for practicality purposes. I don't know how long a half-empty packet of US-05 is going to be sitting in my fridge before i get a chance to pitch the rest. I don't really feel comfortable pitching it months later after it's been opened.

When I brew 1-gallon test batches, I usually brew several in the course of 1 brew session. I'll generally pitch 2-3 grams of US-05 per 1-gallon batch in that case.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 10, 2014, 09:12:23 am
I usually brew 1.7-gallon batches these days.  I use a proportional amount of yeast.  5 gallons requires a full pack of dry yeast for ales, or maybe 2 packs for a lager, right?  So for a 1/3 size batch, I use 1/3 pack for ales or maybe for a lager I'd use one full pack.  Dry yeast lasts for years and years and years.  I've used opened packs that have been in the refrigerator for 2 or 3 years without any trouble at all.  I just fold over the corner and tape it shut.  People who haven't tasted my beer will always whine about my practices but in my experience it works awesome.  Super cheap 'n' easy.  Try it for yourself and you'll see for yourself.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: The Professor on December 10, 2014, 09:21:59 am
I started using liquid yeast exclusively beginning in the mid 1980s, however with the vastly improved quality of dry yeast in recent years I now keep a few packets on hand for emergencies.  I still definitely prefer wet yeast (especially since my main one is an unidentified and now 'well trained" strain that I've kept alive for more than 25 years), but the brews I've made using S-04 and especially Bry 97 have turned out great.  I expect that I'll be doing a lot more experimentation with those, and other dry strains as they come available.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: seefish on December 10, 2014, 09:27:19 am
I really like US-05 and S-04 and will use them anytime a recipe calls for the liquid equivalents.  It just seems easier to me and I think they have similar profiles.  I did just try T-58 and wasn't really happy with it...it is possible I underpitched but the fermentation seemed really herky jerky.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 09:27:43 am
i think the best way to make your decision is split a batch or do two batches -one with dry and one liquid and try to objectively evaluate any differences. 
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 10, 2014, 09:38:50 am
The only reason I don't split more batches is because my batches are already so small and it would get very expensive buying that much yeast for small batches.  Otherwise, yeah, splitting batches to try different yeasts is always a wonderful experiment.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Multifaceted on December 10, 2014, 09:42:12 am
Like others, for short notice or more commonly - if I don't have the suitable liquid on hand, then I'll use dry yeast.

I typically harvest liquid yeast cultures from starters and keep them in the fridge to use for future starters.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: denny on December 10, 2014, 09:42:31 am
I keep 05 on hand for emergencies.  I used to use it pretty regularly, but started detecting some things from it I didn't care for.  I'd use S-189 and 34/70 more often if they were readily available, but I order stuff so seldom that I never have those on hand.  Don't care much for 04 or Notty.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 09:44:17 am
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I do have a question for Eric & Dave.  I know you two do small batches.  Do you use the whole packet or just part and how do you split it up?
I'm brewing 3-gallon batches mainly. For that batch size I'll generally just pitch 1 full packet. Since these are typically clean American ale styles, I'm not as worried about potentially suppressing ester formation by overpitching a bit. It's also for practicality purposes. I don't know how long a half-empty packet of US-05 is going to be sitting in my fridge before i get a chance to pitch the rest. I don't really feel comfortable pitching it months later after it's been opened.

When I brew 1-gallon test batches, I usually brew several in the course of 1 brew session. I'll generally pitch 2-3 grams of US-05 per 1-gallon batch in that case.
I usually brew 1.7-gallon batches these days.  I use a proportional amount of yeast.  5 gallons requires a full pack of dry yeast for ales, or maybe 2 packs for a lager, right?  So for a 1/3 size batch, I use 1/3 pack for ales or maybe for a lager I'd use one full pack.  Dry yeast lasts for years and years and years.  I've used opened packs that have been in the refrigerator for 2 or 3 years without any trouble at all.  I just fold over the corner and tape it shut.  People who haven't tasted my beer will always whine about my practices but in my experience it works awesome.  Super cheap 'n' easy.  Try it for yourself and you'll see for yourself.

Very interesting.  And out of curiosity, do either of you rehydrate or just pitch dry?

For myself, I'm making 2.75 gal batches.  It's easier and cheaper to use dry so I've been using US-05, S-04 and Nottingham.  I have also used S-33 on a few occasions but it doesn't compact on the bottom of the bottles very well.  If any gets into my glass, I will get a headache, plus it tastes horrible.  After reading the recent thread on Windsor, I plan on giving that one a try on my next batch.  I almost always rehydrate and then use about half of the yeast mixture.  Seems to work out pretty well.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: reverseapachemaster on December 10, 2014, 10:07:03 am
I also frequently use dry yeast for my small batches. It's pretty easy to use part of the packet of yeast, tape the packet shut and finish using it later.

No rehydration on my part but I am probably overpitching with the amount of dry yeast I use. I usually hang on to the slurry so I am getting good value but not dealing with lag problems from not rehydrating.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 10, 2014, 10:44:03 am
I don't rehydrate.  Lag times usually aren't much more than 12 hours with dry yeast, so why bother.

(I have not used BRY-97 yet, but when I do I'll pitch an entire pack for 1.7 gallons, since it's a known stinker when it comes to lag time.)
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: blatz on December 10, 2014, 11:11:17 am
i prefer liquid yeast, but I wind up using US-05 about as frequently as I do 001/1056.  I do find that US-05 leaves the malt body a little thinner than the 001, even at the same attenuation. 

But sometimes it is what it is - such as this weekend when i am brewing twice - an ESB and an IPA - i didn't plan well enough in advance with my stir plate, so the 007 got on the schedule for the plate and US-05 will be used for the IPA. 
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 10, 2014, 11:15:29 am
Very interesting.  And out of curiosity, do either of you rehydrate or just pitch dry?
After doing trying it both ways, I decided to stick with sprinkling my dry yeast. Since then, I have only ever rehydrated on a lager that was at the upper limit of where I'd be comfortable using 1 pack.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 11:28:46 am
http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/15/sprinkled-vs-rehydrated-dry-yeast-exbeeriment-results/
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 01:28:08 pm
http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/15/sprinkled-vs-rehydrated-dry-yeast-exbeeriment-results/

Unfortunately, it's one of those articles that Brew Your Own does not have online, but in the December, 2011 issue is an article by James Spenser and Chris Colby titled, "Should You Rehydrate Dried Yeast?"  Long story short, it's up to you.  With 10 participants taking part in the experiment, it was 6 to 4 for rehydration.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dkfick on December 10, 2014, 01:30:37 pm
I use whatever yeast will give the profile I am looking for.  Oftentimes dry yeast is good for this.  I think the quality of dry yeast is good and the viability is much better than that of liquid yeast.  The selection is somewhat limited though.  I mean all my meads get dry yeast as I don't enjoy the few liquid strains I have tried.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 01:42:56 pm
http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/15/sprinkled-vs-rehydrated-dry-yeast-exbeeriment-results/

Unfortunately, it's one of those articles that Brew Your Own does not have online, but in the December, 2011 issue is an article by James Spenser and Chris Colby titled, "Should You Rehydrate Dried Yeast?"  Long story short, it's up to you.  With 10 participants taking part in the experiment, it was 6 to 4 for rehydration.

yep try it both ways, decide what you prefer or if it matters.

BTW, where in NE Ohio you from?
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 01:52:58 pm
Beautiful Cuyahoga Falls!
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 01:58:29 pm
Beautiful Cuyahoga Falls!

Nice-Home of The Boot Scootin Saloon. you go to label peelers in Kent?
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 02:18:17 pm
Nah, I go Grape & Granary in Akron.  It's close enough I can start a mash, run there and get home before it's time to start the sparge.  And I've had to do that once or twice.  There have only been a few times I've needed to order something online as they have a great inventory, they double crush my grains without a complaint, but most importantly, they're really nice people.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: 69franx on December 10, 2014, 06:00:55 pm
I lived in the Falls for a couple years back in the early 90's, fourth street near Saggett(?) . I miss Rockin on the River. I have visited Grape and Granary once recently when visiting family: great store, great selection. I have also ordered hops from Label Peelers, liked their service as well. Dont think you can go wrong with either
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: case thrower on December 10, 2014, 06:25:15 pm
I lived in the Falls for a couple years back in the early 90's, fourth street near Saggett(?) . I miss Rockin on the River. I have visited Grape and Granary once recently when visiting family: great store, great selection. I have also ordered hops from Label Peelers, liked their service as well. Dont think you can go wrong with either

I love how threads can go from things like, say, dry yeast to, oh, I don't know, Cuyahoga Falls doings.  Yeah, I'm about a mile an half from Sackett Ave. and 4th Street.  And the promoter doing Rockin on the River pulled out this fall.  The new mayor wanted to take a look at the contract the city had with him and he freaked.  Said he didn't need that kind of scrutiny or whatever.  Fortunately, someone else has already stepped in to take his place.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 10, 2014, 06:30:49 pm
Threads seem to always go off topic somewhere. I started one on yeast calculators and it turned into a white labs conspiracy.....kind of the charm of this forum I think.


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Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: 69franx on December 10, 2014, 06:43:38 pm
That's it Sackett! Did a lot of drinking in those days, some hazy details!
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 11, 2014, 08:39:00 am
Back on topic. Apart from US-05, S-04 and Nottingham, I notice very little enthusiasm for dry yeasts. It's cheap and handy, especially when brewing small batches, yes, but not much more. This kind of confirms my ideas. Thanks for your feedback!
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: dmtaylor on December 11, 2014, 08:54:20 am
I really think dry yeast is underutilized and underrated, and getting better all the time.  We should all buy a ton of stock in dry yeast, methinks.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 11, 2014, 09:33:47 am
Back on topic. Apart from US-05, S-04 and Nottingham, I notice very little enthusiasm for dry yeasts. It's cheap and handy, especially when brewing small batches, yes, but not much more. This kind of confirms my ideas. Thanks for your feedback!

My standard primary volume size is 3.5 gallons.

If it is any help, all of the non-dry yeast cultures that I use today cannot be purchased through the home brew trade.  I made that decision when I rebuilt my bank.

(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/tonestack/Brewing/MyCurrentBank1_zps31b27281.jpg)

(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/tonestack/Brewing/CCyeast1_zpsdc754fa7.jpg)



Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 11, 2014, 10:45:51 am
Back on topic. Apart from US-05, S-04 and Nottingham, I notice very little enthusiasm for dry yeasts. It's cheap and handy, especially when brewing small batches, yes, but not much more. This kind of confirms my ideas. Thanks for your feedback!

I don't think that's entirely accurate.  A lot of us use dry yeasts frequently, even if the preference is for liquid cultures.

I don't care for Notty, but some do.  I've made good beer with T-58, WB-06, Munich, and others.  I keep a bunch of dry yeast available and use it when I need to, usually an impromptu brew session.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 11, 2014, 11:01:35 am
Back on topic. Apart from US-05, S-04 and Nottingham, I notice very little enthusiasm for dry yeasts. It's cheap and handy, especially when brewing small batches, yes, but not much more. This kind of confirms my ideas. Thanks for your feedback!

I don't think that's entirely accurate.  A lot of us use dry yeasts frequently, even if the preference is for liquid cultures.

I don't care for Notty, but some do.  I've made good beer with T-58, WB-06, Munich, and others.  I keep a bunch of dry yeast available and use it when I need to, usually an impromptu brew session.
+1 finding that's exactly where I'm at now. was all liquid when i switched to all grain. recently started exploring the dry yeast with good results.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: morticaixavier on December 11, 2014, 11:25:47 am
As others have said, I use dry yeast when I want the convenience of just pitching some yeast in without making a starter AND the beer I am brewing works with an available dry yeast option. I've used us-05 a lot as it's a solid clean yeast strain and perfect for standard 'american' ales. I've used the belle saison once and I'd use it again for a spontaneous brew day. I've used 34/70 as well and was quite pleased with the result.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 11, 2014, 02:18:30 pm
Back on topic. Apart from US-05, S-04 and Nottingham, I notice very little enthusiasm for dry yeasts. It's cheap and handy, especially when brewing small batches, yes, but not much more. This kind of confirms my ideas. Thanks for your feedback!

I don't think that's entirely accurate.  A lot of us use dry yeasts frequently, even if the preference is for liquid cultures.

I don't care for Notty, but some do.  I've made good beer with T-58, WB-06, Munich, and others.  I keep a bunch of dry yeast available and use it when I need to, usually an impromptu brew session.

OK, let me rephrase: there's no real conclusion to this thread.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Joe Sr. on December 11, 2014, 02:31:31 pm
OK, let me rephrase: there's no real conclusion to this thread.

Quite right. 

Often, quite frequently here you'll get a wide range of opinions, a whole lot of conflicting first hand experiences, and you'll just have to go and try it yourself.

Don't ask if you should rehydrate or not.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 11, 2014, 02:58:01 pm
OK, let me rephrase: there's no real conclusion to this thread.
I think the takeaway is that many dry yeasts can be quite good. Which ones (if any) suit your tastes and needs will depend on a lot of factors, and can only be determined by you. That's as good of an answer as you're going to get on many topics here. Hopefully there's enough here to point you in the right direction.
Title: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 11, 2014, 03:06:44 pm
OK, let me rephrase: there's no real conclusion to this thread.
I think the takeaway is that many dry yeasts can be quite good. Which ones (if any) suit your tastes and needs will depend on a lot of factors, and can only be determined by you. That's as good of an answer as you're going to get on many topics here. Hopefully there's enough here to point you in the right direction.

well said.  great example of this is I just used Notti in my irish ale (same recipe i use some of the liquid english ale yeasts with). and now speaking from experience, I can say that Im not happy with notti for this recipe.

will drink it and move on....there are worse things.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: aokeovn on December 11, 2014, 08:54:30 pm
Well, it's a good exemple.  ;D coque xperia e3 (http://www.etuicoquesamsung.com/category-coque-etui-support-sony-xperia-e3-518.html) etui samsung galaxy A5 (http://www.etuicoquesamsung.com/category-coques-samsung-galaxy-a5-498.html)
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Steve Ruch on December 15, 2014, 03:47:35 pm
US-05 and S-04 always on hand.  I also keep packets of Nottingham for my ciders.  Recently I did an Octoberfest with 34/70 which worked very well...I just need to adjust the recipe (it was v 1.0).

I got good results on a O-fest with S-189. Over the summer I brewed a coconut cider with Munton's that turned out real good.
Title: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 15, 2014, 08:03:24 pm
OK, let me rephrase: there's no real conclusion to this thread.
I think the takeaway is that many dry yeasts can be quite good. Which ones (if any) suit your tastes and needs will depend on a lot of factors, and can only be determined by you. That's as good of an answer as you're going to get on many topics here. Hopefully there's enough here to point you in the right direction.

well said.  great example of this is I just used Notti in my irish ale (same recipe i use some of the liquid english ale yeasts with). and now speaking from experience, I can say that Im not happy with notti for this recipe.

will drink it and move on....there are worse things.

I must confess I was wrong. Made a rookie mistake and passed judgement on the first pint (forgetting it was going to be loaded with gelatin). That first pint tasted extremely blah....after clearing the gelatin it's a very nice roasty malt pint of fine Irish ale....embarrassed but happy.


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Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Steve Ruch on December 18, 2014, 05:40:53 pm
I keep 05 on hand for emergencies.  I used to use it pretty regularly, but started detecting some things from it I didn't care for.  I'd use S-189 and 34/70 more often if they were readily available, but I order stuff so seldom that I never have those on hand.  Don't care much for 04 or Notty.

Denny,
Atlantic Brew Supply has S-189 in homebrew size packets and they have a USPS option for shipping, so if you only wanted enough to try it out the shipping would be pretty low. Brew brothers in Hillsboro some times has it and a USPS option also.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: coolman26 on December 18, 2014, 08:29:03 pm
I've never tried S-189.  I do like 34/70, but I've had off peach flavors from 05.  I do like many dry yeasts.  Usually about time, but I prefer liquid.  I really like 1450.  I have been building a huge starter all week.  You just can't get some profiles from dry.  I've never rehydrated.  I just pitch more yeast and go on.  I always figured one more step to pick some nasty up.  Gonna try Notty in a cider next week.  Just bought some BRY-97.  Guess I'll face the lag!  I hear it is dry Pacman.  I do like Pacman in liquid.  Dry is good and easy.  Like a rib, some like'm dry, some like'm wet. 
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on December 19, 2014, 06:47:21 am
I've never tried S-189.  I do like 34/70, but I've had off peach flavors from 05.  I do like many dry yeasts.  Usually about time, but I prefer liquid.  I really like 1450.  I have been building a huge starter all week.  You just can't get some profiles from dry.  I've never rehydrated.  I just pitch more yeast and go on.  I always figured one more step to pick some nasty up.  Gonna try Notty in a cider next week.  Just bought some BRY-97.  Guess I'll face the lag!  I hear it is dry Pacman.  I do like Pacman in liquid.  Dry is good and easy.  Like a rib, some like'm dry, some like'm wet.

yeah I feel its the limitation of strains of dry yeast-not the dry yeast itself. If your favorite liquid was available dry, would you use it and would it produce the same results.....
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: narcout on December 19, 2014, 06:13:07 pm
Just bought some BRY-97.  Guess I'll face the lag!  I hear it is dry Pacman.

BRY-97 is Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II).
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: coolman26 on December 22, 2014, 12:08:45 pm
BRY-97 is Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II).
[/quote]

Hmm good to know.  I read it was Pacman.  I've never used 1272.   
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 22, 2014, 02:06:44 pm
BRY-97 is Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II).

Hmm good to know.  I read it was Pacman.  I've never used 1272.
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BRY 97 is the same strain as Anchor Ale, WLP051, and Wyeast 1272.  Evidence points to BRY 97 being a Ballantine yeast strain.  BRY 96 is also a Ballantine yeast strain.  BRY 96 is the same strain as "Chico," Wyeast 1056, WLP001, and US-05.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 22, 2014, 05:08:34 pm
BRY-97 is Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II).

Hmm good to know.  I read it was Pacman.  I've never used 1272.

BRY 97 is the same strain as Anchor Ale, WLP051, and Wyeast 1272.  Evidence points to BRY 97 being a Ballentine yeast strain.  BRY 96 is also a Ballentine yeast strain.  BRY 96 is the same strain as "Chico," Wyeast 1056, WLP001, and US-05.
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Would those 2 yeasts have been used together at Ballantine? BRY 97 is such a slow starter, 96 would be the starter, 97 the finisher.

Toured the Young's Ram brewery a long time ago before it closed. The tour guide pointed out the 3 different rings on the open fermenter, he claimed they had a starter yeast, a workhorse, then a finisher.

Something that just popped in to my mind today.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 22, 2014, 06:29:35 pm
Would those 2 yeasts have been used together at Ballantine? BRY 97 is such a slow starter, 96 would be the starter, 97 the finisher.

That's a good question. Thus far, the evidence points to BRY 97 being used at the large brewery site.  That site also contained a maltings in addition to an ale brewery.  Ballantine acquired the Schalk Brothers Brewery in 1879.  Schalk Brothers became indebted to Ballantine because Ballantine produced malt in addition to beer.  Schalk Brothers brewed lager "beer."  It is believed that BRY 96 (a.k.a. "Chico") was used at the former Schalk brewery to produce Ballantine's "beer" offering, which explains the culture's good low temperature performance.  If we search the ARS NRRL Collection for cultures deposited by Ballantine, we find the following accessions:


Y-7407  Saccharomyces cerevisiae Meyen ex E. C. Hansen (1883)
        G.W. Lange, Ballentine, New Jersey
        BR, Beer pitching yeast, Ballentine Brewery, New Jersey, USA


Y-7408  Saccharomyces cerevisiae Meyen ex E. C. Hansen (1883)
        Lange, Ballentine, Newark, New Jersey    
        BR, Ale pitching yeast



Did you notice that the cultures are entered in the same order in the ARS NRRL Collection as they are in the Siebel collection?  That's no coincidence.

BRY 96  = Y-7407
BRY 97  = Y-7408

It is well known that Sierra Nevada obtained "Chico" from Siebel as BRY 96.   It is now assumed that Anchor obtained their ale yeast strain from Siebel as BRY 97 (i.e., BRY 97 = Anchor, not Pac Man). 

With that said, if you repitch BRY 97, you will discover that it behaves like any other ale strain with respect to lag time.  This difference in performance leads me to believe that BRY 97 does not take kindly to aerobic propagation and drying.  I am curious to see if a really fresh pack of BRY 97 takes as long to start.  However, my local home brewing supplier does not turn BRY 97 over fast enough for me to be able obtain a really fresh specimen, which is too bad because BRY 97 is a much a better ale strain than BRY 96 from a mouth feel and malt profile point of view.  BRY 97 may be the first dry ale yeast strain to benefit from making a starter.   That's how I plan to use the remaining package of BRY 97 that is in my brewing refrigerator.

One last thing, here's a photo of a large open fermentation vessel at the Ballantine ale brewery.  That head looks more like BRY 97 than it does BRY 96.

(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/tonestack/Brewing/bally_wort_zpseff211e4.jpg)
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: erockrph on December 22, 2014, 08:12:45 pm
It would be interesting to split a batch between a fresh pack of BRY-97 and a fresh pack of WY1272 or WLP051 based on this information.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 23, 2014, 04:41:31 am
I haven't made a starter with US-05, but I do rehydrate it for pitching.  I have noticed a shorter lag time when doing this (pitching in the low 60's F or lower).  I then allow a free rise to mid 60's for fermentation (using a thermowell and digital heating to stay at 66F or so).  Even so, with this yeast on some very clean ales, like a cream ale, I can detect some clove that is mildly distracting.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: S. cerevisiae on December 23, 2014, 06:31:43 am
BRY 97 is a totally different animal than US-05.  US-05 is BRY 96.   BRY 97 is notorious for long lag times in dry form.  A friend who uses Wyeast 1272 on a regular basis said that he always doubles his pitch rate when starting from a smack-pack in order to avoid longer than normal lag times.  Wyeast 1272 is BRY 97.   When pitched as fresh slurry, BRY 97 appears to behave like any other ale yeast strain with respect to lag time.   This strain also wants to be used at a higher than normal fermentation temperature.  A batch that was pitched in the low sixties took almost 72 hours to start.  A batch that was pitched at 68F with yeast from the same lot took less than half as long to start.  Starting at 68F instead of 60F does not appear to affect the ester profile as much as it does with other ale strains.  Anchor pitches a ton of yeast when using this strain.  They also ferment in open fermentation vessels at 21C/70F. 
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on December 23, 2014, 06:41:54 am
If one is interested in information on the P. Ballantine and Sons Brewery, this is a rabbit hole to fall down.
It also has Schalk and Feigenspan information.
https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/home
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: macphergus on December 23, 2014, 01:56:09 pm
I primarily use dry now, my experience is all good.  Mostly S4 and US05, I always pre-hydrate and I use two packs.  I also have good results with White Labs liquids (my LHBS doesn't carry Wyeast) but the drys are so much easier with the same quality.
Title: Re: do you use dry yeast
Post by: 69franx on December 23, 2014, 02:10:23 pm
If one is interested in information on the P. Ballantine and Sons Brewery, this is a rabbit hole to fall down.
It also has Schalk and Feigenspan information.
https://sites.google.com/site/pballantineandsons/home
Great Link, thanks Jeff. When I have more time (not at work) I think I will enjoy reading as much of this as I can