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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: -Liam- on January 09, 2015, 02:06:27 PM

Title: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: -Liam- on January 09, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
I was looking at trying the recipe for Allagash Black (Craft Beer for the Homebrewer book) and I see that it calls for 2lbs of dark candi sugar rocks. Would it make a difference if I used dark candi syrup, and if I were to use that instead, is 2lbs of syrup equal to 2lbs of candi rock?
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on January 09, 2015, 03:46:26 PM
considering same OG for both, 2lbs liquid should contribute same as 2lbs rock. Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2015, 03:52:03 PM
Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.

+1. Much, much better on the dark syrup IMO.  But don't waste $ on clear syrup (for tripel) - table sugar is just as good there.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on January 09, 2015, 03:55:43 PM
Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.

+1. Much, much better on the dark syrup IMO.  But don't waste $ on clear syrup (for tripel) - table sugar is just as good there.

Jon- since we are on dark syrup, you ever use it to back sweeten cider? thinking it might add some nice flavors.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2015, 04:00:11 PM
Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.

+1. Much, much better on the dark syrup IMO.  But don't waste $ on clear syrup (for tripel) - table sugar is just as good there.

Jon- since we are on dark syrup, you ever use it to back sweeten cider? thinking it might add some nice flavors.

I never have, but I'd be curious to see what it brings to the party. I could see it being interesting, sort of caramelly/dark fruity. I use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to back flavor cider, but of course the juice is concentrated with at least some heat, too.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: narcout on January 09, 2015, 05:17:21 PM
Would it make a difference if I used dark candi syrup

Yes, you will get a different result using the syrup instead of the rocks.  I'm not familiar with the beer in question so I can't really say which will get you closer to the intended result.

A lot of people claim the rocks are bogus, but I think they have their place. 

+1. Much, much better on the dark syrup IMO.  But don't waste $ on clear syrup (for tripel) - table sugar is just as good there.

I tried the clear syrup recently, and I felt it contributed a different flavor than the evaporated cane sugar I normally use.  I didn't do a blind triangle tasting or anything though.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2015, 05:22:39 PM

I tried the clear syrup recently, and I felt it contributed a different flavor than the evaporated cane sugar I normally use.  I didn't do a blind triangle tasting or anything though.

Hmm.  I've never been able to tell the difference, but OTOH never done a triangle tasting either. 
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: denny on January 09, 2015, 05:25:58 PM
I was looking at trying the recipe for Allagash Black (Craft Beer for the Homebrewer book) and I see that it calls for 2lbs of dark candi sugar rocks. Would it make a difference if I used dark candi syrup, and if I were to use that instead, is 2lbs of syrup equal to 2lbs of candi rock?

It would make a difference in gravity.  Most importantly, it would make a huge difference (for the better IMO) in flavor.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: denny on January 09, 2015, 05:26:49 PM
considering same OG for both, 2lbs liquid should contribute same as 2lbs rock. Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.

The liquid will be around 32 ppg and the rocks around 45 ppg, so it's not a 1:1 sub.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on January 09, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
makes sense -confirms rock is them primarily sucrose at higher OG and why its tasteless compared to dark belg syrup I guess.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: erockrph on January 09, 2015, 07:06:46 PM
Personally, i like the liquid better and found it has better flavors.

+1. Much, much better on the dark syrup IMO.  But don't waste $ on clear syrup (for tripel) - table sugar is just as good there.

Jon- since we are on dark syrup, you ever use it to back sweeten cider? thinking it might add some nice flavors.
That's on my list to try as well. But I think I'd use it to boost the gravity prior to fermentation, then backsweeten with fresh cider or concentrate. This way the raw syrup flavor can ferment out.

And I'll throw my support behind the Candi Syrup as well. I use D-90 and D-180 in my dark Belgians, and D-45 in lighter stuff like Belgian Pale Ale.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: mattybrass on January 14, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
I never have, but I'd be curious to see what it brings to the party. I could see it being interesting, sort of caramelly/dark fruity. I use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to back flavor cider, but of course the juice is concentrated with at least some heat, too.
[/quote]

How much of each do you use to backsweeten? I bought 3 cans of concentrate to sweeten 5 gallons and i never thought, until now, that i would be adding a lot of sugar with no balanced acid.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2015, 03:07:33 PM
I never have, but I'd be curious to see what it brings to the party. I could see it being interesting, sort of caramelly/dark fruity. I use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to back flavor cider, but of course the juice is concentrated with at least some heat, too.

How much of each do you use to backsweeten? I bought 3 cans of concentrate to sweeten 5 gallons and i never thought, until now, that i would be adding a lot of sugar with no balanced acid.
[/quote]

Well, it's hard to give hard and fast numbers when juices/ciders vary so much in sweetness and acidity. I take a pint of dry fermented cider and add concentrate and malic acid until it's where I like it, then scale up. No guesswork. One of the ciders I just made was for my wife and she likes a sweeter cider. I used 4 apple juice concentrate containers (roughly) and ~ 1/2 tbsp of malic acid. Also, some concentrates have more acidity than others, so that's why I like to get the pint of cider just right and scale up the measurements.

EDIT -  Didn't mention, I use tannin to back flavor, too. Same scale up process.
Title: Re: Candi Sugar/Candi Syrup question
Post by: mattybrass on January 14, 2015, 03:09:43 PM
I never have, but I'd be curious to see what it brings to the party. I could see it being interesting, sort of caramelly/dark fruity. I use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to back flavor cider, but of course the juice is concentrated with at least some heat, too.

How much of each do you use to backsweeten? I bought 3 cans of concentrate to sweeten 5 gallons and i never thought, until now, that i would be adding a lot of sugar with no balanced acid.

Well, it's hard to give hard and fast numbers when juices/ciders vary so much in sweetness and acidity. I take a pint of cider and add concentrate and malic acid until it's where I like it, then scale up. No guesswork. One of the ciders I just made was for my wife and she likes a sweeter cider. I used 4 apple juice concentrate containers (roughly) and ~ 1/2 tbsp of malic acid. Also, some concentrates have more acidity than others, so that's why I like to get the pint of cider just right and scale up the measurements.
[/quote]

thats good advice, its mainly for my girlfriend and her desired level of sweetness is certainly more than mine.