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General Category => Events => Homebrew Competitions => Topic started by: rjharper on February 07, 2015, 06:41:51 PM

Title: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 07, 2015, 06:41:51 PM
Has anyone else had an experience where you submit entries to competition, then the judging coordinator reassigns your entry to a different category? I entered a 20A; basically a fruit beer with very mild wild yeast notes from the fruit that I noted in the description. It's been moved against my wishes to a 34A Specialty Brett/Sour, and the coordinator has declined my request to return it to 20A.

To me, it's a fruit beer first and foremost, with just a hint of wild. If it was a Brett/sour with a hint of fruit I would understand, but it's not. I want it judged as a fruit beer. I do  not want it judged against a flight of primarily sour or Brett beers where that character is the defining flavor. The coordinator told me it would be marked down in 20A if they tasted Brett notes, but I do not see anything in the 2008 guidelines that says wild yeast is inappropriate in 20A.

I feel I know my beer better than a comp coordinator who's read a 50 character description of it.  Anyone else experienced this?

 >:(
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: denny on February 07, 2015, 06:46:45 PM
That should not happen.  If it was a BJCP comp, I'd let them know.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 07, 2015, 06:52:07 PM
Thanks Denny. Its a big competition; BJCP and MCAB qualifier. I was trying to avoid naming the actual competition before I gauged opinion here.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: denny on February 07, 2015, 07:17:28 PM
Thanks Denny. Its a big competition; BJCP and MCAB qualifier. I was trying to avoid naming the actual competition before I gauged opinion here.

That just should not happen.  Let someone know.  You don't have to name the comp here...just let someone know.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: brewday on February 07, 2015, 07:18:11 PM
I'm with you - seems a bit odd.  A Berliner aged on fruit would go in 20A, and certainly it could have a hint of Brett, so what's the difference?  Maybe they're hung up on base style?  But still...
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: denny on February 07, 2015, 07:20:21 PM
I'm with you - seems a bit odd.  A Berliner aged on fruit would go in 20A, and certainly it could have a hint of Brett, so what's the difference?  Maybe they're hung up on base style?  But still...

No one but the entrant should determine the category.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 07, 2015, 07:25:33 PM
I'm with you - seems a bit odd.  A Berliner aged on fruit would go in 20A, and certainly it could have a hint of Brett, so what's the difference?  Maybe they're hung up on base style?  But still...

No one but the entrant should determine the category.

That's what I've always thought.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: brewinhard on February 07, 2015, 08:02:13 PM
Agreed.  Categories can easily be collapsed but your entry should not be placed elsewhere at the organizers discretion.  Even if you entered the beer in the wrong category then you should be judged in that category albeit scoring lower than you would want. 

If that happened to me, I would not enter that comp the following year.   
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 07, 2015, 08:11:35 PM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: udubdawg on February 07, 2015, 08:51:07 PM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.

*sigh*
if it is not in the category you want it, then they owe you $8 IMO.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: jeffy on February 07, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.

*sigh*
if it is not in the category you want it, then they owe you $8 IMO.

Entrants are responsible for putting the beer into the category they desire.  Although somebody may suggest a different category, it should only be a suggestion.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: udubdawg on February 08, 2015, 12:15:36 AM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.

*sigh*
if it is not in the category you want it, then they owe you $8 IMO.

Entrants are responsible for putting the beer into the category they desire.  Although somebody may suggest a different category, it should only be a suggestion.

exactly.  It's his entry and he put it where he wanted it.  Now, have I had some who put a beer in the wrong spot and didn't understand it, as it was their first competition?  sure.  I called them and asked if I could move their coconut porter from 12B to 21A.  Once they understood, they were happy I contacted them.

Ross isn't a noob.  IMO an organizer should respect his wishes or refund his money.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: Tim Thomssen on February 08, 2015, 01:04:06 AM
I'm in the same boat, had my fruit beer moved to category 34 against my will.  Worse still, it is a clean fermented beer with tartness only from the fruit.

There are no style guidelines published for this category, just the name "specialty sour and brett beers".
I had to dig pretty deep in the competition web site just to find out they even had this special category, sure didn't know about it up front.

I've seen it before where other competitions have a specialty IPA category or similar, in that case it was prominently noted that any specialty IPA's entered in 16E or 23 would be moved to the "Specialty IPA" category.  I have no problem with that, as long as you know what you're getting into up front.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: Jimmy K on February 08, 2015, 01:22:10 AM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.

*sigh*
if it is not in the category you want it, then they owe you $8 IMO.
I agree. And I'm really speechless about this.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: duboman on February 08, 2015, 01:31:32 AM
I'm finding this topic to be disconcerting as I've submitted to one comp and have another coming up soon. I hope they may good on your firm request to place your beer where you entered it. Good luck on the comp!
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: udubdawg on February 08, 2015, 02:07:01 AM
Yeah I won't be entering this competition next year. What's scary is to quote the coordinator "It gets judged the same no matter what category it is in". Uh, no, how it gets judged is highly dpendant on the style guidelines for that category. We've traded emails back and forth, but that this point I'm going to demand the original category, then contact BJCP to file a complaint.

*sigh*
if it is not in the category you want it, then they owe you $8 IMO.
I agree. And I'm really speechless about this.

well, at least SOMETHING good came out of all this!
;)
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 08, 2015, 02:37:40 AM
If you submit to the wrong category, the judges can tell you you're out of style.

No one should change the category to which you submit.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 08, 2015, 04:35:47 AM
I'm in the same boat, had my fruit beer moved to category 34 against my will.  Worse still, it is a clean fermented beer with tartness only from the fruit.

There are no style guidelines published for this category, just the name "specialty sour and brett beers".
I had to dig pretty deep in the competition web site just to find out they even had this special category, sure didn't know about it up front.

I've seen it before where other competitions have a specialty IPA category or similar, in that case it was prominently noted that any specialty IPA's entered in 16E or 23 would be moved to the "Specialty IPA" category.  I have no problem with that, as long as you know what you're getting into up front.

Why do I get the feeling we're talking about the same comp? Judging in two weeks?
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: AmandaK on February 08, 2015, 02:06:50 PM
I just want to go on the record and say that while KCBM 32 matches nearly all of the qualities of the comp mentioned here (judging dates, same circuits), it is certainly not KCBM 32. We would not move an entry and will call the entrant directly if we think that there is confusion to ask the entrant what they want to do.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 08, 2015, 02:45:47 PM
I just want to go on the record and say that while KCBM 32 matches nearly all of the qualities of the comp mentioned here (judging dates, same circuits), it is certainly not KCBM 32. We would not move an entry and will call the entrant directly if we think that there is confusion to ask the entrant what they want to do.

It's not KCBM 32.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: reverseapachemaster on February 08, 2015, 04:02:19 PM
Is it in Texas?
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 08, 2015, 08:48:34 PM
Is it in Texas?

No. Sod it, it's Midwinter Homebrew in Milwaukee.
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: jeffjm on February 08, 2015, 09:34:12 PM
Something doesn't add up. Mid-Winter is using 2008 guidelines according to their web site, so there shouldn't be a category 34 in the first place.

Maybe they split categories apart and your entry landed in Table 34, or Medal Category (not BJCP category) 34?
Title: Re: Competition changes your category
Post by: rjharper on February 08, 2015, 10:24:19 PM
Something doesn't add up. Mid-Winter is using 2008 guidelines according to their web site, so there shouldn't be a category 34 in the first place.

Maybe they split categories apart and your entry landed in Table 34, or Medal Category (not BJCP category) 34?

They are judging to 2008 BJCP but have added some extra categories looking forwards to 2014 such as Specialty IPA, Brett/Sour, Aussie Ales etc. My issue is that there is a disregard to my wishes as an entrant regarding which category I want to enter, and the fact that it's assumed that wild notes in 2008 20A is a negative.

I was told that since cat. 20 is a small group it's being combined with cat. 21 and so I would stand a better chance being judged against brett/sour rather than judged against spiced. But I'm not being judged against spice beers. because I should be judged as a fruit beer, as the assigned category.

It's not a group or table issue. I'm clearly looking at a 34A Specialty Brett / Sour Ale reassignment right now.