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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Phil_M on March 07, 2015, 07:01:37 am

Title: Delaying pitching
Post by: Phil_M on March 07, 2015, 07:01:37 am
About how long after I've put the beer in the fermentor can I wait to pitch my yeast?

Forgot to make a starter last night, but still need to get the brew done today.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 07, 2015, 08:37:26 am
while I don't recommend it you can let it sit for a couple of days at 40 degrees with no detectable problems. I have had to do this before and have left beer sit cold over a long weekend to come back in Monday to aerate and pitch yeast.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: The Professor on March 07, 2015, 08:39:40 am
About how long after I've put the beer in the fermentor can I wait to pitch my yeast?

Forgot to make a starter last night, but still need to get the brew done today.
Sooner is definitely better, but a few times (due to either bad planning or an impulsive need to brew)  I've waited as long as 18 hours, with no ill effects whatsoever.  Good sanitation is always key...but especially so in instances like this.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: Phil_M on March 07, 2015, 09:39:20 am
I don't have a space to keep it chilled. I think I'm going to let the starter get to krausen and pitch it. It really should be stepped up, but I'd rather not let the wort sit for that long.

I didn't realize till today just how old this yeast packet was, if all else fails I fall back and use US-05.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on March 08, 2015, 02:15:21 pm
as others said, sooner is better because risk for bacteria growth increases. there's no good solid answer for time-really a factor of your sanitation practices also. 24-48hours would be all the time i'd ever press, and i'd be concerned until i tasted the finished product.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: dkfick on March 08, 2015, 03:24:17 pm
also when your talking about storing it for days there is the risk of botulism... The alcohol in the beer normally stops the botulism spores from reproducing.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: Phil_M on March 09, 2015, 04:42:00 am
Ended up pitching the yeast late that night. When I chilled the beer I managed to get it down to about 45 degrees, just let it sit at that temp until I pitched the yeast. Once that was done I setup my heater/temp control, and it's now fermenting happily at 92 degrees. (This beer used Wyeast 3724.)
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 09, 2015, 06:45:39 am
also when your talking about storing it for days there is the risk of botulism... The alcohol in the beer normally stops the botulism spores from reproducing.

I do not believe it is a problem cold for 72 hours. Room temp might be another story.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: dkfick on March 09, 2015, 06:49:32 am
It's slowed but I think the 3-4 day period is the bottom end of possibility at the cold temps.  I'm not really sure.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 09, 2015, 10:28:17 am
It's slowed but I think the 3-4 day period is the bottom end of possibility at the cold temps.  I'm not really sure.

Seems like if I could eat off a batch of chili for 3 days wort would be safe enough. That said, I am not advocating waiting 72 hours unless an emergency happens. And I probably wouldn't harvest yeast from that batch either.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: dkfick on March 09, 2015, 10:30:49 am
I agree.  Most likely it would be fine.  Odds are probably you could go even longer. I'm just saying it's perhaps possible.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on March 10, 2015, 06:42:39 am
In the summer, or when making lagers, I almost always delay pitching for 24 hours.

If you delay pitching, you might as well take advantage of the trub settling time. Before pitching, rack into another fermentor. This has helped my quick lagers clear up much faster!
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 10, 2015, 07:09:56 am
I used to remove trub, but never found it made a difference and was an extra PITA step. I don't bother with it any more, rarely even on my conicals.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: coolman26 on March 10, 2015, 09:17:31 am
I used to remove trub, but never found it made a difference and was an extra PITA step. I don't bother with it any more, rarely even on my conicals.

Wow, I figured the pro brewers always dumped their trub.  How do you re-pitch your yeast?  I always just swirled and pitched.  I've never worried about washing and trying to clear my yeast.  YHB brews are fantastic by the way.  Glad I have a friend that travels on business there!   
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 10, 2015, 09:43:01 am
I harvest yeast via racking arm so I am pulling the middle slurry of yeast. If I have to go from bottom port I do dump dead yeast and trub before collection. That said, I still homebrew and reuse yeast and jump harvest the yeast in mason jar and go with what I have, no rinsing, no separation. Doesn't seem to make any difference in beer clarity.

That said, on both homebrew and commercial set up I leave most of the hops and trub behind in BK, which I do personally advocate. I whirlpool and have a plate in front of my exit port to hold back most of the hops and trub.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on March 10, 2015, 11:50:15 am
That said, on both homebrew and commercial set up I leave most of the hops and trub behind in BK, which I do personally advocate. I whirlpool and have a plate in front of my exit port to hold back most of the hops and trub.

I guess when I've done the settling and racking off, its been  in the heat of summer when I can't chill lower than 75-80F or so. When I cool from there to lager pitch temp (~55F) in the fermentor, I get a LOT of cold break.

Probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference in a stout or IPA, but it sure helped clear up a quick-fermented Pils.

Right now, chilling and settling in the whirlpool is no problemo.

Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 10, 2015, 06:13:30 pm
That said, on both homebrew and commercial set up I leave most of the hops and trub behind in BK, which I do personally advocate. I whirlpool and have a plate in front of my exit port to hold back most of the hops and trub.

I guess when I've done the settling and racking off, its been  in the heat of summer when I can't chill lower than 75-80F or so. When I cool from there to lager pitch temp (~55F) in the fermentor, I get a LOT of cold break.

Probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference in a stout or IPA, but it sure helped clear up a quick-fermented Pils.

Right now, chilling and settling in the whirlpool is no problemo.

I've just read a lot about how hot or cold break doesn't make a difference in clarity, and that it may actually help a fermentation. So I haven't bothered. Haven't really noticed any problems in beer clarity, even on the palest beers. See the kolsch in my avatar, or the one below. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk236/majorvices_photo/2403433497_78f3183f2a_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: markpotts on March 11, 2015, 07:13:26 am
A few brewers here in the UK (usually beginners with limited equipment) use a 'no chill cube'. It's also popular in Australia where water is precious and ground water often very warm.
Boiled wort is simply run in to a food safe container (jerry can type thing) and then left to cool. Some people dunk in a cold water bath to speed up the chilling.
Point is, that I've read that people can leave this wort for many days, even months in some cases prior to pitching the yeast.
I must say I have no direct experience of this, but it seems to work okay for the guys that do it.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: morticaixavier on March 11, 2015, 07:58:13 am
A few brewers here in the UK (usually beginners with limited equipment) use a 'no chill cube'. It's also popular in Australia where water is precious and ground water often very warm.
Boiled wort is simply run in to a food safe container (jerry can type thing) and then left to cool. Some people dunk in a cold water bath to speed up the chilling.
Point is, that I've read that people can leave this wort for many days, even months in some cases prior to pitching the yeast.
I must say I have no direct experience of this, but it seems to work okay for the guys that do it.

that's a bit different though, the hot packed wort may or may not be shelf stable, canned basically. But 1) the pH of wort is not low enough to be safe for storage is only processed at normal pressure, and 2) just hot packing is not even as reliable as boiling water bath canning so it's hit or miss if that wort is stable.

Overnight is no problem. that's pretty much my M.O. I've gone 24 hours chilling to pitch temp in the fridge but wouldn't want to go too many more.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: dkfick on March 11, 2015, 09:39:30 am
A few brewers here in the UK (usually beginners with limited equipment) use a 'no chill cube'. It's also popular in Australia where water is precious and ground water often very warm.
Boiled wort is simply run in to a food safe container (jerry can type thing) and then left to cool. Some people dunk in a cold water bath to speed up the chilling.
Point is, that I've read that people can leave this wort for many days, even months in some cases prior to pitching the yeast.
I must say I have no direct experience of this, but it seems to work okay for the guys that do it.
Weeks and months is just plain irresponsible.. I have gone a day multiple times... even 2 days a couple times... but if I had to go longer it would be going down the drain.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: markpotts on March 11, 2015, 10:35:37 am
mort / dkfick .......tbh, I don't disagree and it's not a practice that I would encourage. I just thought it was worth throwing in for discussion as I've seen the technique referred to numerous times.
I agree with you mort in that I would only chance it overnight if I couldn't cool the wort in my usual way.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: dkfick on March 11, 2015, 10:39:52 am
I brewed a beer a month or so ago where I did no chill... but I did pitch about 36 hours later.  I just couldn't imagine letting it sit for weeks
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: majorvices on March 11, 2015, 11:00:07 am


that's a bit different though, the hot packed wort may or may not be shelf stable, canned basically. But 1) the pH of wort is not low enough to be safe for storage is only processed at normal pressure, and 2) just hot packing is not even as reliable as boiling water bath canning so it's hit or miss if that wort is stable.

Overnight is no problem. that's pretty much my M.O. I've gone 24 hours chilling to pitch temp in the fridge but wouldn't want to go too many more.

One of these days I will do a test to see how many bad critters grow in a preboiled/refrigerated wort after 72 hours cold storage. but I think if you can leave leftovers cold for 72 hours you can leave wort cold for 72 hours without any health problems associated with food poisoning. I bet it happens to homebrewers all the time who pitch a vial of expired yeast and don't see fermentation for 48-72 hours all across the country.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 11, 2015, 11:04:07 am
I had cooled a lager wort down to 39F as I was waiting for the starters for finish and crash. It sat for 48 hours before I pitched. The beer tasted very good when sampled. I am still here typing this...
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 11, 2015, 11:08:00 am
I am still here typing this...


;D
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: jimmykx250 on March 11, 2015, 11:13:18 am
I just started doing the no chill method myself by recommendation by Bob stymski? Purely from a time savings standpoint and not to mention the water savings. Flamout right into plastic (250 degree approved) container and pitch the next day. Im liking it so far.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: morticaixavier on March 11, 2015, 04:35:03 pm


that's a bit different though, the hot packed wort may or may not be shelf stable, canned basically. But 1) the pH of wort is not low enough to be safe for storage is only processed at normal pressure, and 2) just hot packing is not even as reliable as boiling water bath canning so it's hit or miss if that wort is stable.

Overnight is no problem. that's pretty much my M.O. I've gone 24 hours chilling to pitch temp in the fridge but wouldn't want to go too many more.

One of these days I will do a test to see how many bad critters grow in a preboiled/refrigerated wort after 72 hours cold storage. but I think if you can leave leftovers cold for 72 hours you can leave wort cold for 72 hours without any health problems associated with food poisoning. I bet it happens to homebrewers all the time who pitch a vial of expired yeast and don't see fermentation for 48-72 hours all across the country.

in the fridge, at say 42 degrees I would agree, it would likely be safe for quite some time. I read the initial post as no-chill for weeks or months. that I would avoid.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: markpotts on March 12, 2015, 08:34:22 am
Some people do mention extended periods of storage before pitching the yeast.
In my mind, I compare the no-chill method as being like an extract kit.......just a bigger volume of unconcentrated hopped wort stored in a sterile/sanitised container, rather than a smaller concentrated volume you get with extract.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: morticaixavier on March 12, 2015, 09:52:48 am
Some people do mention extended periods of storage before pitching the yeast.
In my mind, I compare the no-chill method as being like an extract kit.......just a bigger volume of unconcentrated hopped wort stored in a sterile/sanitised container, rather than a smaller concentrated volume you get with extract.

but it's not sterile. it's sanitized. Unless it is pressure canned it isn't total safe to store at room temperature. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with no-chill, and certainly no with pitching the next day (or two even) I'm just saying the practice of hot packing wort and sealing the container and then storeing at room temp for an extended period of time is dangerous.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: leejoreilly on March 13, 2015, 08:27:23 am
I live in MI and my son is in MD. We've done a few "individual collaboration" brews with a delayed pitching. For example, about this time last year, we each brewed a RIS using essentially the same recipe. He pitched his yeast normally in MD; I brewed here in MI, and after chilling to maybe 80F or so, I racked into a keg, purged with CO2 and stored it in my garage (fairly cool) for a day or two until we drove down to MD with it. There we racked my brew out of the keg into a carboy and pitched. Both beers stayed in MD through fermentation, then were blended and conditioned in a bourbon barrel for a few weeks and bottled. Outstanding stuff that's getting better by the month. We're going to try this technique again with a KBS sorta-clone later this month.

I use the purged keg approach to simplify transport (a fermenting carboy sloshing around for 500 miles didn't seem as attractive as a sealed pre-fermentation keg), but I imagine that I could use it to store the wort here for a few days, too. I probably wouldn't go beyond a few days, though.
Title: Re: Delaying pitching
Post by: Werks21 on March 14, 2015, 10:42:57 am
I have brewed on a Sunday and pitched on a Weds several times, with the wort at room temp the whole time. I didn't know it was this big a deal. The beers have been fine, though I do understand that waiting increases the risk of infection. I suppose I will try to clean up my act and pitch within 24 hours or immediately. I consider my sanitation to be good which swings the odds in my favor. So waiting a few days can be done with no need to dump as someone suggested but apparently that's not best practice. Who knew?