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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Derek on March 31, 2015, 02:18:26 AM

Title: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: Derek on March 31, 2015, 02:18:26 AM
Looking for some insight on a few things:

    1.) What is a good way to use the common pitch rate calculators for reyeasting pitch rates? Can I input my          FG in the calculator and pitch the calculated amount into the wort before bottling?

    2.) I was planning on using dry yeast for bottling. Is this a good or bad idea as opposed to using liquid yeast? I plan on doing small batches and could potentially harvest and cultivate small amounts of yeast from the fermentation to save for bottling but dry yeast seems easier if there is no noticeable flavor contribution from the liquid yeast.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: majorvices on March 31, 2015, 02:26:31 AM
There's not a really good way I know of to figure out pitching rates for bottle conditioning. For a 5 gallon batch 1/2 pack of rehydrated dry yeast should be plenty.

I think it is a waste to use liquid yeast for bottle conditioning. The flavor contribution will be minimal at best. That said, I have use wine yeast for my belgian bottle conditioned beers and I thought the results were very interesting.

finally, unless you have a high gravity beer or long aged beer you shouldn't need any additional yeast!
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: Derek on March 31, 2015, 03:11:55 AM
That seems to be the general consensus. I really only plan on using the method for Belgian styles where I plan to age for 6-12 months.

1/2 a package of dry yeast (~5.75 g) roughly equates to the 1 tsp (~4.93 g) that Northern Brewer lists in their advanced bottle conditioning article. They list 1 tsp of dry yeast as sufficient, along with your priming agent, to successfully carb and condition a Tripel style Belgian at 3.3 volumes of CO2.

Thanks for the reply. I'll use it as a guidepost when I go to carb up. I can just scale it down for my 1.5 gal. batches.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: markpotts on March 31, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
There's not a really good way I know of to figure out pitching rates for bottle conditioning. For a 5 gallon batch 1/2 pack of rehydrated dry yeast should be plenty.

I think it is a waste to use liquid yeast for bottle conditioning. The flavor contribution will be minimal at best. That said, I have use wine yeast for my belgian bottle conditioned beers and I thought the results were very interesting.

finally, unless you have a high gravity beer or long aged beer you shouldn't need any additional yeast!

I think that 1/2 a pack is far too much yeast. Commercials dose at 10g per hl IIRC.
I agree though that you shouldn't have to re-seed unless it's long aged or very high gravity.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: majorvices on March 31, 2015, 11:46:50 AM
There's not a really good way I know of to figure out pitching rates for bottle conditioning. For a 5 gallon batch 1/2 pack of rehydrated dry yeast should be plenty.

I think it is a waste to use liquid yeast for bottle conditioning. The flavor contribution will be minimal at best. That said, I have use wine yeast for my belgian bottle conditioned beers and I thought the results were very interesting.

finally, unless you have a high gravity beer or long aged beer you shouldn't need any additional yeast!

I think that 1/2 a pack is far too much yeast. Commercials dose at 10g per hl IIRC.
I agree though that you shouldn't have to re-seed unless it's long aged or very high gravity.

While I don't think 1/2 pack would hurt a 5 gallon batch I do agree it is more than you need. And it depends if you are talking about 5 grams yeast packets or 11.5 grams.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: erockrph on March 31, 2015, 04:19:30 PM
There's not a really good way I know of to figure out pitching rates for bottle conditioning. For a 5 gallon batch 1/2 pack of rehydrated dry yeast should be plenty.

I think it is a waste to use liquid yeast for bottle conditioning. The flavor contribution will be minimal at best. That said, I have use wine yeast for my belgian bottle conditioned beers and I thought the results were very interesting.

finally, unless you have a high gravity beer or long aged beer you shouldn't need any additional yeast!

I think that 1/2 a pack is far too much yeast. Commercials dose at 10g per hl IIRC.
I agree though that you shouldn't have to re-seed unless it's long aged or very high gravity.

While I don't think 1/2 pack would hurt a 5 gallon batch I do agree it is more than you need. And it depends if you are talking about 5 grams yeast packets or 11.5 grams.
At that rate (half of an 11.5 gram packet) you will see a significant increase in the amount of yeast sediment (been there, done that). One or two dry yeast granules per bottle is likely all you really need.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: Derek on April 01, 2015, 03:15:35 AM
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/AdvancedBottleConditioning.pdf

The specific reference I was using was the Belgian Tripel priming example on the bottom left side of Pg. 2.

I am only concerned about re-yeasting My Dark Strong and RIS, as I plan on letting them condition in vessel for a few weeks and then condition in bottle for ~6-9 months.

Personally I would love to eliminate a step from the process, especially one that involves more yeast, but I also do not want to impact the final product. After fermenting a 1.090 O.G. beer I am sure those tired yeasties could use a little help carbing and conditioning.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: majorvices on April 01, 2015, 11:08:03 AM
I think any high gravity beer deserves re-yeasting at bottling. Yeast health is never good after a high gravity fermenatation. I also don't recall seeing excessive sediment after using a half pack US-05 (or full pack 5 gram wine yeast) per 5 gallon batch.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: reverseapachemaster on April 01, 2015, 03:34:47 PM
You only need to add a small amount of yeast to carb beer. I typically add a small number of dry cells to sour beers and high gravity beers. It's easier to add dry yeast because you can tap out a few cells in each bottle but liquid yeast will work fine as well. You can add liquid yeast to the bottling bucket (and the same with dry yeast if you want) but add it early in siphoning to make sure it is mixed and fresh yeast gets into every bottle.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: pete b on April 01, 2015, 03:59:41 PM
When I bottle an aged high gravity beer I put a few grains of champagne yeast in each bottle. It seems to not add any flavor, no extra sediment, and the carb level is as expected.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: Derek on April 01, 2015, 06:31:02 PM
All good to know. I'll most likely be using some dry yeast to carb.
Title: Re: Bottle Conditioning Pitch Rates and Flavor Contribution
Post by: brewinhard on April 06, 2015, 07:01:29 PM
If you plan on using dry yeast, I would recommend to properly rehydrate it in a small amount of boiled/cooled water.  That way you know the yeast have flexible cell walls and will get distributed throughout your bottling bucket more efficiently.