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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: vanwolfhausen on May 24, 2010, 07:58:39 PM

Title: Black IPA?
Post by: vanwolfhausen on May 24, 2010, 07:58:39 PM
Ok so when doing a black IPA is it just adding a little black patent or chocolate to recipe or is there more to it?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: tygo on May 24, 2010, 08:16:11 PM
There was some discussion of this in the recipe section a little while ago.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1241.0
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: garyg on June 02, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
We'll have a feature on Black IPA in the up-coming July/August issue of Zymurgy.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: mnstorm99 on June 03, 2010, 11:23:41 AM
I still don't really understand the point of this "style", just coloring an IPA (india PALE ale, right?) with almost flavorless dark malts.  Same beer, different color...I just don't understand.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: denny on June 03, 2010, 03:27:39 PM
I still don't really understand the point of this "style", just coloring an IPA (india PALE ale, right?) with almost flavorless dark malts.  Same beer, different color...I just don't understand.

You and me both, buddy....
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on June 03, 2010, 04:02:52 PM
Thats why mine has roasted malts and brown malt.

It probably wont fit the style guidline when they put one for it in the BJCP though  :-[
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: mnstorm99 on June 03, 2010, 04:39:37 PM
Thats why mine has roasted malts and brown malt.

It probably wont fit the style guidline when they put one for it in the BJCP though  :-[

Will you be able to fit it into the American Brown Ale catagory?  At least it will be a beer with it's own character.

Maybe they should just up the IBU's in that catagory to 60...just my opinion.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on June 03, 2010, 04:48:41 PM
Thats why mine has roasted malts and brown malt.

It probably wont fit the style guidline when they put one for it in the BJCP though  :-[

Will you be able to fit it into the American Brown Ale catagory?  At least it will be a beer with it's own character.

Maybe they should just up the IBU's in that catagory to 60...just my opinion.

Its been doing just fine entered into Category 23  ;D
Too hoppy for an American Brown, its hopped to 90 IBU's
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dbeechum on June 03, 2010, 05:08:01 PM
You and me both, buddy....

Because for human beings, the organoleptic experience begins with the eyes.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bonjour on June 03, 2010, 05:11:40 PM
So where would I put a Black Barleywine?, I'll color it with a pound of Roast or so  ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dbeechum on June 03, 2010, 05:15:41 PM
Go fer it.. of course then you'll have to deal with the style Nazis who want you to be brewing an RIS if you want a black and super strong beer.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on June 03, 2010, 05:22:11 PM
So where would I put a Black Barleywine?, I'll color it with a pound of Roast or so  ;)

Do any of your beers fit a BJCP category  :P
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bonjour on June 03, 2010, 05:36:48 PM
You mean my Simcoe Mild?  Aweful nice starter
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on June 03, 2010, 06:28:50 PM
You mean my Simcoe Mild?  Aweful nice starter

Simcoe Mild ROFLROFLROFLROFL
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: denny on June 03, 2010, 06:47:44 PM
You and me both, buddy....

Because for human beings, the organoleptic experience begins with the eyes.

Sure, no argument there...I guess I just haven't found a black IPA yet that makes me go "wow, I want to drink that" when I look at it.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: mnstorm99 on June 03, 2010, 06:53:13 PM
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: theDarkSide on June 03, 2010, 06:59:39 PM
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

If you are drinking an IPA at night and the power goes out, does it become a Black IPA? :)

I wonder how many Black IPA's are going to be entered into the Longshot competition this year under category 23?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on June 03, 2010, 07:02:57 PM
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

If you are drinking an IPA at night and the power goes out, does it become a Black IPA? :)

I wonder how many Black IPA's are going to be entered into the Longshot competition this year under category 23?

One for sure  ;D
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: blatz on June 03, 2010, 07:03:39 PM
Just to clarify, I could care less about style.  But the one Black IPA I've had tasted like an IPA, just seemed like a gimmick to me.

I just am not sure about creating another style for it, but maybe I am just in the dark (pun?) with this type of beer.

FWIW, the two that I have had (Stone Sublimely Self Righteous and Southern Tier's __?___ ) aren't simply 'colored' IPAs.  They do have a subtle hint in flavor and aroma of some roasted malts.  

I could definitely tell a difference if blind folded between Stone SSR and the same beer brewed with only the roasted malts replaced with 2-row.

I don't give a damn about the style either, for that matter - both those beers are tasty, so i buy them, and maybe I'll just have to brew Jeff's recipe one of these days...
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bluesman on June 03, 2010, 07:12:52 PM
I think it would be difficult to make a Black IPA without at least a hint of roast if one was using a roasted , chocolate and/or black malt.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pyrite on June 03, 2010, 07:20:54 PM
Sorry in advance for intruding on this thread and asking a side question....I recently made a hoppy beer and the color is murky brown (ugh), the taste is fantastic. I usually don't worry about esthetics but I undershot my color malts... I would like to turn this beer black; it is aging in a tank on oak cubes.  Is it possible to steep Carafa Special II on the stove in a pot, extract the jet black color, boil it and add it to the fermenter in hopes of turning this beer jet black?

You guys have all great ideas about Black IPAs, I love reading through this stuff...
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: denny on June 03, 2010, 07:35:02 PM
Sorry in advance for intruding on this thread and asking a side question....I recently made a hoppy beer and the color is murky brown (ugh), the taste is fantastic. I usually don't worry about esthetics but I undershot my color malts... I would like to turn this beer black; it is aging in a tank on oak cubes.  Is it possible to steep Carafa Special II on the stove in a pot, extract the jet black color, boil it and add it to the fermenter in hopes of turning this beer jet black?

You guys have all great ideas about Black IPAs, I love reading through this stuff...


An easier way would be to use Sinamar.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dbeechum on June 03, 2010, 08:04:15 PM
And yes, if you can't find sinamar.. you can take dehusked Carafa and cold steep it to produce a colorant. Boil it before you add it to your finished beer.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pyrite on June 03, 2010, 08:12:49 PM
Prefect, okay cool thanks denny and dbeechum. I'm going to see if MoreBeer carries this product, if I can't find it i'll use the cold steeping method, either way both methods look very effective.  I'll be on my way off this thread now
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: Hokerer on June 03, 2010, 08:25:00 PM
Prefect, okay cool thanks denny and dbeechum. I'm going to see if MoreBeer carries this product, if I can't find it i'll use the cold steeping method, either way both methods look very effective.  I'll be on my way off this thread now

Interesting.  This thread got me curious and, while I definitely remember Northern Brewer carrying Sinamar, it looks like nobody does any longer.  Wonder what happened?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: hamiltont on June 12, 2010, 03:53:32 PM
Currently having an IPA and Schwarzbier on tap I'm finding the combination of 2/3 IPA & 1/3 Schwarzbier is the shcitz!!! The Carafa II in the Schwarzbier is what's giving it a very nice, smooth roasted flavor.  If/when I brew a Black IPA, that's the route I'm taking; a combination of the two recipies.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: richardt on June 12, 2010, 06:01:52 PM
I once blended an IPA with a BDS.  Just incredible!  Both beers were awesome on their own; but together... stunning!
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pyrite on June 13, 2010, 10:22:01 PM
Here's some info on cold steeping...

From George Fix on Cold Steeping

Question to Dr. Fix:

On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

    * (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
    * (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
    * (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.




OKAY...so you guys sold me on the cold steeping method...I am just thinking out loud though, how is cold steeping different from a sour mash.  More specifically if I am following the post DENNY posted from Dr. Fix, how is the cold steeping extraction of black colorant from the Carafa Special II malt not supposed to contain lacto when I leave it soaking for 16hrs..  
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dbeechum on June 14, 2010, 05:11:32 AM
The big difference is heat in two ways:

1) Naturally, roasted malts will have less lacto on them due to the roasting process. No comment on post roasting inoculation though

2) Steeping cold will deter lacto. Lacto likes warmth, e.g. dead bodies, leftover mashes.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 14, 2010, 12:25:26 PM
I have been cold steeping since Mary Ann Gruber had made the technique public years ago.  It works, in that the harsh bitter burnt flavors are not in the finished beer.  My wife does not like the "ashtray" flavor that you get in some dark beers, and this avoids that.

I use water that has the chlorine removed (any technique will do), and steep overnight.  You can add the liquid to the mash, the liquid and grains to the mash, or strain the liquid and add to the boil.  I add it all to the mash 5 to 10 minutes before mashout. 

Cold steeping is less efficient, so you might want 1.5 times to 2 times as much grain.

Never had any lacto produced  by doing this.  Might check the pH of the cold steep liquid next time, as it might be low due to the dark grain.

Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pyrite on June 14, 2010, 03:07:47 PM
thanks guys..ashtray, lol, so true though.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: skyler on June 16, 2010, 05:29:45 PM
A few things about black ipa as a style (in support of why they are awesome):

1. The roast isn't nonexistent, it is subtle but present. It is like the sprinkle of cinnamon or cocoa on your cappuccino - it is a pleasant extra (if not strictly necessary) note.

2. They are easy to brew. By this I mean no worries about clarity. The wait time on an ipa can be painful because you want it clear, but you don't want to lose any hop character.

3. There is a lot of variety/unexplored territory in this style. Here in the bay area, few have even heard of the style. In Portland it is more common, but many brewers made theirs borderline imperial stouts and others made theirs dry as he'll and low in body (my preference). They range from the low end of abc/gravity for an ipa up into the iipa range. Some, like mine and the one at hop works, use just dehusked carafa or sinamar to darken it. Still others. Use chocolate malt and roasted barley to kick up the roast. True sometimes it steps on the feet of ris, but this flexibility is inherent inany "out of style" style, at it makes them fun to brew.

4. It is fun to be part of the bandwagon sometimes, and black ipa is the bandwagon style right now alongside sour beers. A few years ago everyone was enjoying wit biers with gusto, and a few years before that, people were first getting worked up over e word imperial. Sure it can be gimmicky, but it is sometimes fun to be in on the gimmick.

My $.02  
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: skyler on June 16, 2010, 05:40:50 PM

I wonder how many Black IPA's are going to be entered into the Longshot competition this year under category 23?

I actually think that is why longshot is category 23 this year - so a Sam Adams black ipa can hit the shelves and sell like widmer's W'10.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pyrite on June 16, 2010, 05:45:59 PM
You and me both, buddy....

Because for human beings, the organoleptic experience begins with the eyes.

Sure, no argument there...I guess I just haven't found a black IPA yet that makes me go "wow, I want to drink that" when I look at it.

Have you found an regular IPA that makes you go wow i want to drink that?   
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dean on June 29, 2010, 11:29:59 AM
SA Longshot?  How about a black pale ale or a black wheat beer?   ;D  

I'm with others that it doesn't seem right as a "style" on its own, its too dark for a pale anything and not enough substance for a stout.    Whats next toasted almond beer a style?  Brew whatever a person wants but does it require being made a style just because it was brewed?

But a specialty beer... yeh, I can see black IPA's being that.  

Sours are "in"... wow, I made mine on a whim more or less... guess I'm in style for a change.   :D ::)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: Jo Diesel on June 29, 2010, 10:15:04 PM
Isn't a black beer a stout or porter? I know hoppy is not right for this style but this would fit better than an  IPA. I just did a Black Porterr and I think it could have used a little more hop flavor/
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bonjour on June 29, 2010, 10:31:58 PM
I'm with others that it doesn't seem right as a "style" on its own, its too dark for a pale anything and not enough substance for a stout.    Whats next toasted almond beer a style?  Brew whatever a person wants but does it require being made a style just because it was brewed?

But a specialty beer... yeh, I can see black IPA's being that.  
Most of the time when we talk styles we are talking competitive styles, or BJCP styles.  BJCP styles are not there to define the style, but to provide the judges with something to judge against.  That being said, if "Black IPA's" show up in contests (Cat 23/Specialty) on a regular basis and stick around, and someone writes up a style description, it is possible to become a BJCP recognized style.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: 6thstreet on July 01, 2010, 08:01:32 PM
If this does become a BJCP style (which I think it should) it should in no way be classified as a "Black IPA" but rather as an "India Dark Ale" (IDA) or even a "Cascadian Dark Ale."  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on July 03, 2010, 03:11:20 AM
I jumped on the bandwagon, and brewed one of the recipes from the current BYO.  The W10 is a decent beer, and I had a black IPA from Iron Horse in Washington and it was great.  Nice, oaky front end, with that great IPA bitterness.  

Does it deserve it's on style?  Who knows.

But, more and more breweries are marketing a Black IPA, or Cascadian Dark Ale.  I think 21A even has one out now.  And their Brew Free or Die is one of the best IPA's to be had.  

For mine, I still have about two weeks before I know how good it is.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pweis909 on July 07, 2010, 12:20:07 PM
This a relatively uninformed question (but that's why I'm asking!):

How is the acceptance of Black IPA/Cascadian dark ale as a style different from the acceptance of Schwarzbier?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: babalu87 on July 07, 2010, 12:44:23 PM
This a relatively uninformed question (but that's why I'm asking!):

How is the acceptance of Black IPA/Cascadian dark ale as a style different from the acceptance of Schwarzbier?


Schwarzbier has been brewed since the middle ages
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: pweis909 on July 07, 2010, 01:28:48 PM
"Schwarzbier has been brewed since the middle ages"

Ok.  I said I was relatively uninformed, but this much, I knew.  :)

 So schwarzbier is grandfathered in, even though the grounds for distinguishing it as a separate style are no longer acceptable and applicable to modern beers?  Or is Black IPA only worthy of being its own style when it has been around for several centuries?  I'm just curious on the thought behind how this type of thing gets decided.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on July 07, 2010, 02:28:07 PM
"Schwarzbier has been brewed since the middle ages"

Ok.  I said I was relatively uninformed, but this much, I knew.  :)

 So schwarzbier is grandfathered in, even though the grounds for distinguishing it as a separate style are no longer acceptable and applicable to modern beers?  Or is Black IPA only worthy of being its own style when it has been around for several centuries?  I'm just curious on the thought behind how this type of thing gets decided.

I'm unsure how the BJCP will decide if this should be a style on it's own.  To me the biggest indicator would be how many Cat 23 beers come in as this style.  If it begins to overwhelm Cat 23, then maybe it should get it's own style.  BYO had "style guidelines."

I'm gonna keg my version of W10 from the BYO recipe this weekend.  I added some oak chips to the fermenter.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on July 08, 2010, 05:30:11 PM
I jumped on the bandwagon, and brewed one of the recipes from the current BYO.  The W10 is a decent beer, and I had a black IPA from Iron Horse in Washington and it was great.  Nice, oaky front end, with that great IPA bitterness.  

Does it deserve it's on style?  Who knows.

But, more and more breweries are marketing a Black IPA, or Cascadian Dark Ale.  I think 21A even has one out now.  And their Brew Free or Die is one of the best IPA's to be had.  

For mine, I still have about two weeks before I know how good it is.

Well, I kegged up my W10 last night, and it's carbonating now.  Should be done tonight or tomorrow.  It sure tasted good int he hydrometer test tube.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dannyjed on July 28, 2010, 12:58:19 AM
I have to admit I was skeptical at first concerning a Black IPA, but I had one that was good and I could definitely taste the Chocolate malt in it.  The hops weren't that big, so I guess you could consider it a hoppy brown ale because it was more of a brown color than black. :-\
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on July 28, 2010, 05:13:14 PM
I have to admit I was skeptical at first concerning a Black IPA, but I had one that was good and I could definitely taste the Chocolate malt in it.  The hops weren't that big, so I guess you could consider it a hoppy brown ale because it was more of a brown color than black. :-\

If you're gonna use the W10 clone recipe, trust me, the Carafa II will definately make it black.  I brewed that recipe right away.  I did add oak chips to the fermenters, and it turned out great.  Many of my friends and co-workers said ti was the best beer I have brewed.  Not real hoppy though, and that's no good for an IPA.

I've brewed a second batch, and will keg that up tonight.  I added 2ounces of Simcoe at 90 minutes to help with the bitterness.  (10 gallon, all grain)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dannyjed on July 28, 2010, 07:14:21 PM
recipe please
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on July 28, 2010, 10:00:29 PM
recipe please

Extract or all grain?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on July 30, 2010, 01:30:20 PM
Currently having an IPA and Schwarzbier on tap I'm finding the combination of 2/3 IPA & 1/3 Schwarzbier is the shcitz!!! The Carafa II in the Schwarzbier is what's giving it a very nice, smooth roasted flavor.  If/when I brew a Black IPA, that's the route I'm taking; a combination of the two recipies.

This is my FAVORITE part of having a kegerator (aside from not bottling).

I loooove blending beers on tap to figure out new recipes. My favorite so far is 3/4 Kolsch with 1/4 Trad. Bock. If Spaten brewed an Amber, I think it would taste something like this...
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: beersk on July 30, 2010, 02:13:00 PM
Currently having an IPA and Schwarzbier on tap I'm finding the combination of 2/3 IPA & 1/3 Schwarzbier is the shcitz!!! The Carafa II in the Schwarzbier is what's giving it a very nice, smooth roasted flavor.  If/when I brew a Black IPA, that's the route I'm taking; a combination of the two recipies.

This is my FAVORITE part of having a kegerator (aside from not bottling).

I loooove blending beers on tap to figure out new recipes. My favorite so far is 3/4 Kolsch with 1/4 Trad. Bock. If Spaten brewed an Amber, I think it would taste something like this...


Cool, that sounds good.  I've been doing the same thing.  I have a dark amber and a dry IPA on tap, mixing the two is a nice blend. 
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: jtodd on August 03, 2010, 09:39:35 PM
I'm in the process of planning a black ipa, but I'm a little stumped on what the water profile should be. I'm using 0.5 lbs. of debittered black malt for the roast / color in a 5.5 gallon batch. The spreadsheet I use is telling me my brew water should have a RA of at least 125 with a HCO3 level of 295 ppm, but I'm worried that increasing the HCO3 level that high will have a negative effect on such a hoppy beer. Should I worry about getting my RA high enough for such a dark beer (28.6 SRM)? Can 0.5 lbs. of debittered black malt have that big of an effect on the mash pH?

Here is the water profile I'm thinking of using. It's the profile I use for Amber Ales.

Ca 70.1
Mg 15.4
Na 12.7
Cl 40.5
SO4 96.0
HCO3 128.1
Hardness 238.2
Alkalinity 105.0
RA 45.9
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 04, 2010, 03:15:14 AM
I'm in the process of planning a black ipa, but I'm a little stumped on what the water profile should be. I'm using 0.5 lbs. of debittered black malt for the roast / color in a 5.5 gallon batch. The spreadsheet I use is telling me my brew water should have a RA of at least 125 with a HCO3 level of 295 ppm, but I'm worried that increasing the HCO3 level that high will have a negative effect on such a hoppy beer. Should I worry about getting my RA high enough for such a dark beer (28.6 SRM)? Can 0.5 lbs. of debittered black malt have that big of an effect on the mash pH?

Here is the water profile I'm thinking of using. It's the profile I use for Amber Ales.

Ca 70.1
Mg 15.4
Na 12.7
Cl 40.5
SO4 96.0
HCO3 128.1
Hardness 238.2
Alkalinity 105.0
RA 45.9


Dude, I have no clue.  I have good well water that I run through a fairly cheesy filter.  Never tested the water, never adjusted the water.  But, I've never won Best of Show, either.  But, most folks love my beer. 

I hope someone else can help you.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: gordonstrong on August 08, 2010, 06:10:45 PM
Quote
So where would I put a Black Barleywine?, I'll color it with a pound of Roast or so 

Umm, Imperial Stout?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dannyjed on August 08, 2010, 06:43:50 PM
All grain recipe :)
Title: Re: Black IPA? Nah, India Black Ale
Post by: greymane on August 09, 2010, 03:07:08 PM
After reading all the discussion of the CDA article in this months Zymurgy, I broke down and brewed a 10 gal. batch. Here is what I brewed on Saturday:

Mashed
17# Belgian Pale Malt
3# German Dark Munich
1.25# Carafa III
1# Carafoam
1# Turbinado Sugar added to boil
56 qt. boiled for 90 min to 44 qt.
Preboil gravity = 1.050
S.G. = 1.063
SRM Expected = 27
Ferment at 59°F with Nottingham
Hop Schedule
4 oz WL Chinook at 60 minutes
Hopburst with 2 oz WL Amarillo and 2 oz WL Simcoe 0.5 oz mix every 10 minutes starting at 30 minutes, with the last 1 oz at flameout. Then whirlpooled for 30 minutes
Dryhop in the keg with 0.5 oz each of Simcoe and Amarillo per keg.
IBU =108 (Tinseth)

I ended up with just at 9.5 gallons of wort in my fermentation buckets, due to 8 oz of whole hops sucking up so much.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 10, 2010, 05:50:51 PM
All grain recipe :)

Here's my recipe.  Modified from the W10 in BYO:

18 # 2 row
4 # munich 10L
3 # crystal 10L
1.5 # Carafa II
1.25 # special roast


1 oz simco 75 minutes
2 oz amarillo 60 minutes
.5 oz cascade 2 minutes
1.5 simcoe 2 minutes


dryhop:


2 oz cascade, .5 oz simcoe, 4 oz french oak chips


Mash at 152 60 minutes


Pitch 4 packs of Wyeast 1056 or equal starter.

10 gallons
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dannyjed on August 11, 2010, 12:14:16 AM
Thanks micsager!  ;DI think i'll give it a try.  I'm going to cut everything in half because I make 5 gallon batches.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: tschmidlin on August 11, 2010, 02:17:33 AM
Hey Mic,

How long do you leave it on the dry hops and oak?  I'm sure I have that issue of BYO around here somewhere, but I haven't gotten to it yet - I'm always months behind.  Is that in the original recipe?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 11, 2010, 04:04:41 PM
Hey Mic,

How long do you leave it on the dry hops and oak?  I'm sure I have that issue of BYO around here somewhere, but I haven't gotten to it yet - I'm always months behind.  Is that in the original recipe?

The hops are part of the original.  (but I think I used standard replacements) The oak chips are of my own design.  I put them in the buckets as I transfer the wort, and leave them through the entire fermentation.  I only do primary.  For this beer, 12 days.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: tschmidlin on August 11, 2010, 06:14:35 PM
Hey Mic,

How long do you leave it on the dry hops and oak?  I'm sure I have that issue of BYO around here somewhere, but I haven't gotten to it yet - I'm always months behind.  Is that in the original recipe?

The hops are part of the original.  (but I think I used standard replacements) The oak chips are of my own design.  I put them in the buckets as I transfer the wort, and leave them through the entire fermentation.  I only do primary.  For this beer, 12 days.
So you're adding the dry hops at the same time, in primary?  I think you'll lose a lot of the aromatics that way from CO2 scrubbing.  Or do you add the hops later?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 11, 2010, 07:58:28 PM
I'm adding them right away.  Can't argue with your analysis, this is the first beer I have ever dry hopped.

(It's quite tasty though, I have some bottled for next years Cascade Brewers Cup.)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: tschmidlin on August 11, 2010, 09:02:34 PM
Nice, maybe I'll get to taste it on the BOS panel :)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: gordonstrong on August 11, 2010, 09:06:55 PM
Way to have faith in your beer.  Judging BOS is a consolation prize.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: tschmidlin on August 11, 2010, 09:09:17 PM
You assume I enter. :)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 11, 2010, 11:19:49 PM
Nice, maybe I'll get to taste it on the BOS panel :)

You give me too much credit Tom.  This past year I did get a 37 on an Irish Red.  I did stewart though.  It was fun.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 20, 2010, 06:13:41 PM
All grain recipe :)

Here's my recipe.  Modified from the W10 in BYO:

18 # 2 row
4 # munich 10L
3 # crystal 10L
1.5 # Carafa II
1.25 # special roast


1 oz simco 75 minutes
2 oz amarillo 60 minutes
.5 oz cascade 2 minutes
1.5 simcoe 2 minutes


dryhop:


2 oz cascade, .5 oz simcoe, 4 oz french oak chips


Mash at 152 60 minutes


Pitch 4 packs of Wyeast 1056 or equal starter.

10 gallons

Gonna brew this again this weekend.  Everyone loves it.  But, I'm gonna add two pounds of fresh cut Jalepenos with tem minutees left in the boil.

Any comments?
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: dannyjed on August 20, 2010, 07:00:28 PM
I made a Black IPA on Monday and I used only .5# of Carafa (5 gal batch) and it turned out dark brown.  Next timeI think I'll use .75# or 1 # of Carafa, but I'm sure it will be tasty.  Thanks for the advice :)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 21, 2010, 04:24:36 AM
Way to have faith in your beer.  Judging BOS is a consolation prize.

You know dude, I'm a newbie here.  And when I first read this post I thought "what an a$$" but didn't want to say anything for fear of being such a newbie.  But, the more I think about it, I realize that 99% of folks would think that being BOS judge is an honor. 

I'm sticking with my original thoughts.

Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: gordonstrong on August 21, 2010, 01:29:10 PM
Ah so I guess there is a use for emoticons after all...  It was clearly a joke. I've known Tom for years and was yanking his chain.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 21, 2010, 03:00:34 PM
Ah so I guess there is a use for emoticons after all...  It was clearly a joke. I've known Tom for years and was yanking his chain.

Then I'm sorry for buttin' in. 
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bluesman on August 21, 2010, 03:11:22 PM
Has anyone tried making this a Black India Pale Lager?

Same grain bill...same hop schedule only switching out the yeast to a lager yeast and fermenting at 50F.

The same but different.  :-\ 
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: gordonstrong on August 21, 2010, 03:19:26 PM
No but I've made a black pilsner.  I called it a schwarzbier.   ;) ;D :P
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: bluesman on August 21, 2010, 03:28:28 PM
No but I've made a black pilsner.  I called it a schwarzbier.   ;) ;D :P

Just don't call me late for Happy Hour.   :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egr3HFB7hc4
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: redbeerman on August 21, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
No but I've made a black pilsner.  I called it a schwarzbier.   ;) ;D :P

Just don't call me late for Happy Hour.   :P


Not a problem.  It's always happy hour here. ;)
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: beveragebob on August 29, 2010, 06:47:34 AM
It's quite the dichotomy of a beer style. I've had some of my friends and some Widmer. All I can say is there's a good chance, I'll never brew this beer. I just don;t see the point.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: skyler on August 29, 2010, 08:38:05 PM
I see two distinct takes on the beer - the dry, hoppy, IPA-like take; and the syrupy, roasty, "someone added hops to a winter ale" take. I far prefer the former, and I think W10 was a good example of that. Often, the versions calling themselves "Cascadian Dark Ales" are the syrupy ones (case in point: Deschuttes "Hop in the Dark"). However, the point made earlier about blending beers is a good one, and one pertinent to my enjoyment of certain 22oz bottles I buy. I blended my bone dry ~45 IBU hopbursted pale ale with a bottled black IPA that I found too sweet and lacking in hops - a blend of about 20% pale ale with 80% black IPA. The result was damn fine and more of a "black IPA" then the stuff that came in the bottle.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: The Professor on August 29, 2010, 11:14:16 PM
...The result was damn fine and more of a "black IPA" then the stuff that came in the bottle.

That's great, but the real thing to remember is that it is totally open to interpretation anyway, since the so called "style" has no real rules other than dark and hoppy.
 
Besides I have a real problem with calling it ANY kind of IPA if it's darker than deep amber/copper.  Hell, I've had Porters that fit the description some folks hang on "Black IPA". 

There seems to be a lot of arguing on the interwebs about this "style".  For what it's worth, I believe that it originated on the commercial level with Greg Noonan, but it's a pretty safe bet that such a beer as brewed up in a few basements somewhere long before he put it on tap and tagged it with a most puzzling name.

The arguments I read aound the net about this style are all pretty dumb, if you ask me.  (But nobody did, so I'll stop ranting now.   ;D  )
Basically, it matters not a whit if it's good beer.

(written as I sip on a suspiciously hoppy and hop-aromatic dark dry ale from a 19 year old recipe... ::) ;D  )
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: micsager on August 30, 2010, 02:13:53 PM
Quote
Besides I have a real problem with calling it ANY kind of IPA if it's darker than deep amber/copper.  Hell, I've had Porters that fit the description some folks hang on "Black IPA".  

There seems to be a lot of arguing on the interwebs about this "style".  For what it's worth, I believe that it originated on the commercial level with Greg Noonan, but it's a pretty safe bet that such a beer as brewed up in a few basements somewhere long before he put it on tap and tagged it with a most puzzling name.

(written as I sip on a suspiciously hoppy and hop-aromatic dark dry ale from a 19 year old recipe... ::) ;D  )
I hear ya, and I really don't care what it's called, if it's a style, or what.  What I do is since the W10 recipe in BYO, (that I tweaked pretty good) I have brewed 40 gallons of this beer.  While the last 10 gallons are still fermenting, the rest has been the best beer I've ever brewed.  Friends are wanting to buy cases of this beer from me.  SWMBO tels me to keep it all for us........

So, call it what you will.  I call it darn good beer.
Title: Re: Black IPA?
Post by: skyler on August 30, 2010, 04:06:02 PM
SWMBO tels me to keep it all for us........

That has definitely happened to me a few times.