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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: brulosopher on May 25, 2015, 10:22:20 PM

Title: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: brulosopher on May 25, 2015, 10:22:20 PM
Brülosophy contributor Ray Found did an exBEERiment comparing shake aeration to no aeration. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2015/05/25/wort-aeration-pt-1-shaken-vs-nothing-exbeeriment-results/
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: flbrewer on May 25, 2015, 10:45:46 PM
Thank you! My hunch is that there is sufficient oxygen being introduced into the fermenter, enough to facilitate proper fermentation. Whether through the wort splashing, just some light splashing of the wort while moving the fermenter, or even present oxygen in the empty fermenter.
These experiments continue to surprise me and reiterate the idea that there are very few constants in this hobby.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: klickitat jim on May 25, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
I really dig these as discussion starters. I think its fair to say after this experiment that of those five people, only one could tell the difference between shaken vs not shaken wort of a highly hopped ale. I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: bengelbrau on May 26, 2015, 12:43:48 AM
Quote
I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

I agree. I wonder what would happen if this were repeated with, say, a Helles?
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: klickitat jim on May 26, 2015, 01:29:15 AM
One way to find out. Get someone to try it and let you know.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: beersk on May 26, 2015, 01:41:39 AM
Quote
I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

I agree. I wonder what would happen if this were repeated with, say, a Helles?
Exactly. That would really show whether it counts or not.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: brulosopher on May 26, 2015, 11:40:16 AM
I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

100% agree!

Sidenote-- anyone else having trouble with the Tapatalk app lately?
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: brulosopher on May 26, 2015, 11:41:48 AM
Quote
I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

I agree. I wonder what would happen if this were repeated with, say, a Helles?

We have plenty more O2 xBmts in the chamber, so to speak :)
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: morticaixavier on May 26, 2015, 12:57:08 PM
I would guess that part of this result is due to the well built starters. If the yeast going in all had copious reserves of the fatty acids they need to generate new cells than their o2 requirements are much much lower.

I'm not sure how one would actually isolate that piece though. perhaps with a lower gravity wort to start and no starter. pitch a single vial into each 1.040 wort and compare again.

and as mentioned by the author, a very hoppy beer is maybe not the best option. I would think a simple english pale ale would be a good bet for this.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: beersk on May 26, 2015, 01:08:29 PM
Does anyone know how German breweries oxygenate? Is it within the rules of Reinheitsgebot to inject pure O2 into the wort?
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: dmtaylor on May 26, 2015, 01:22:00 PM
Does anyone know how German breweries oxygenate? Is it within the rules of Reinheitsgebot to inject pure O2 into the wort?

For the breweries who topcrop the krausen yeast, you could argue that they don't need to oxygenate at all since the yeast is very well exposed to oxygen already.

Remember that fad about 5 or 6 years ago about using olive oil to "oxygenate" instead of aeration?  Same concept, except that the olive oil thing probably doesn't actually work.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: bengelbrau on May 26, 2015, 01:38:59 PM
Quote
We have plenty more O2 xBmts in the chamber, so to speak :)

Excellent! Thank you for doing these.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: denny on May 26, 2015, 03:27:06 PM
I really dig these as discussion starters. I think its fair to say after this experiment that of those five people, only one could tell the difference between shaken vs not shaken wort of a highly hopped ale. I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

You could look at this in 2 ways....either that doing nothing works as well as shaking, or that shaking works as poorly as doing nothing.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 26, 2015, 03:34:56 PM
I have just been pumping ales <1.060 into the fermenter, that causes lots of slashing and foam. Lagers and real big beers get 02.

I have been contemplating throttling the pump to get less flow and splashing for English Bitters.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: denny on May 26, 2015, 04:09:52 PM
I have just been pumping ales <1.060 into the fermenter, that causes lots of slashing and foam. Lagers and real big beers get 02.

I have been contemplating throttling the pump to get less flow and splashing for English Bitters.

I've been finding the same thing, Jeff.  By the time I get the wort pumped into the fermenter is appears to be well aerated.  Results bear that out.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: dunngood on May 26, 2015, 07:04:57 PM
I would like to see an experiment done using pure o2 to get the wort up to 10ppm+ that is recommended. I will try that this summer.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: brulosopher on May 26, 2015, 07:27:51 PM

I really dig these as discussion starters. I think its fair to say after this experiment that of those five people, only one could tell the difference between shaken vs not shaken wort of a highly hopped ale. I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

You could look at this in 2 ways....either that doing nothing works as well as shaking, or that shaking works as poorly as doing nothing.
Indeed.

I have just been pumping ales <1.060 into the fermenter, that causes lots of slashing and foam. Lagers and real big beers get 02.

I have been contemplating throttling the pump to get less flow and splashing for English Bitters.
I make lager quite often, never once used O2, never once have had issues with fermentation.

I would like to see an experiment done using pure o2 to get the wort up to 10ppm+ that is recommended. I will try that this summer.
We have it planned, though I don't have a DO meter so the O2 level will be predicted.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: stpug on May 26, 2015, 07:40:35 PM


Sidenote-- anyone else having trouble with the Tapatalk app lately?

It seems to be behaving reasonably well for me today.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: brulosopher on May 26, 2015, 07:41:21 PM



Sidenote-- anyone else having trouble with the Tapatalk app lately?

It seems to be behaving reasonably well for me today.
Yeah, it's back to good for me now as well. Thanks!
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 27, 2015, 03:19:44 AM

I really dig these as discussion starters. I think its fair to say after this experiment that of those five people, only one could tell the difference between shaken vs not shaken wort of a highly hopped ale. I would not extrapolate that to mean that you dont have to aerate or oxygenate, and I dont think the findings of the experiment are suggesting that.

You could look at this in 2 ways....either that doing nothing works as well as shaking, or that shaking works as poorly as doing nothing.
Indeed.

I have just been pumping ales <1.060 into the fermenter, that causes lots of slashing and foam. Lagers and real big beers get 02.

I have been contemplating throttling the pump to get less flow and splashing for English Bitters.
I make lager quite often, never once used O2, never once have had issues with fermentation.

I would like to see an experiment done using pure o2 to get the wort up to 10ppm+ that is recommended. I will try that this summer.
We have it planned, though I don't have a DO meter so the O2 level will be predicted.
a long time ago I won awards without paying attention to my O2 or pitch rate for lagers. Once I did, I won awards for the lagers more frequently, and I like the taste of the beer better. It works for me.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: MDixon on May 27, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
I suspect the reason for the acceptable results is an adequate starter was pitched. Try it again using far less yeast than ideal and I suspect the results would be less acceptable.

I also think if it is attempted again the beers should be presented to a group of judges to evaluate. Not just which is better, but a full evaluation on a score sheet. Which is better when someone comes over to the hacienda is dependent upon what they did (read as ate or drank) prior to tasting the beer.
Title: Re: Wort Aeration - Pt. 1: Shaken vs. Nothing | exBEERiment Results!
Post by: unclebrazzie on May 28, 2015, 09:00:17 AM
I'm siding with the "healthy/voluminous starter/pitch > need for extensive aeration" camp.

From personal experience: I've had a 1.120 impy stout ferment anaerated to 1.021 with US-05 without breaking a sweat. Pitched an activated sachet plus the relatively fresh cake (not even a starter) of a previous batch of lower SG beer.

To me, this indicates that, on the homebrew level, aeration is less important that most of us believe. Healthy yeast, now there's something which cannot be overestimated.