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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: S. cerevisiae on July 01, 2015, 07:36:00 PM

Title: Something to ponder
Post by: S. cerevisiae on July 01, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Anyone who has been around since the nineties knows that Wyeast  1338 and 2308 are also known as Wissenschaftliche Station strains #338 and #308, respectively.   I always wondered what Wissenschaftliche Station meant.  Well, it's short for Wissenschaftliche Station für Brauerei, which translates to Scientific Station for Brewing. 

There were two major brewing science research stations in Germany.  One was in Berlin while the other was in Munich. The Versuchs -und Lehranstalt für Brauerei (roughly,  Experimental and Teaching Institute for Brewing) in Berlin is what we know today simply as VLB Berlin (https://www.vlb-berlin.org/en).  VLB  is associated with the Technical University of Berlin.  The  Wissenschaftliche Station für Brauerei, Munich is what know today simply as Weihenstephan (https://books.google.com/books?id=-kE4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA124&dq=Scientific+Brewing+Station,+Munich+closed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qi2UVYHhM8zt-QGih4OADA&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Scientific Brewing Station%2C Munich closed&f=false).  Weihenstephan is associated with the Technical University of Munch.  Weihenstephan strains carry an alternate accession number that starts with TUM instead of W (http://www.blq-weihenstephan.de/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Mikroorganismen/Mikroorganismen_ENG/TUM_34-70___PCR.pdf).

With that said, I am curious as to why Gary Bauer chose to use Wissenschaftliche Station instead of Weihenstephan when disclosing the source of 1338 and 2308?  We know that 2124 is W-34/70, 2206 is W-206, 3068 is W-68, and 2565 is W-165.   If these strains came from Munich (Weihenstephan) instead of Berlin (VLB) and the Wissenschaftliche Station accession numbers are correct, then 1338 is W-338 and 2308 is W-308.  VLB was more than likely still behind the Iron Curtain when Gary Bauer brought the strains into the country.  That's something to ponder.



Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: mabrungard on July 02, 2015, 04:48:19 PM
Ah, 1338. I loved that yeast. Its sad that its gone from the regular lineup.

Thanks for the information on its history.
Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: denny on July 02, 2015, 04:59:16 PM
Ah, 1338. I loved that yeast. Its sad that its gone from the regular lineup.

Thanks for the information on its history.

I used it a lot for my early alts, but something seemed to change with it and I couldn't get it to attenuate very well.  Switched over to 1007 (admittedly very different) andnever looked back.
Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: hopfenundmalz on July 02, 2015, 05:01:01 PM
The Berlin Technical University (Technische Universatät Berlin) is at the west end of the Tiergarten (the big park and zoo west of the Brandenberger Tor (gate). That places it in West Berlin, so he could have accessed it there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berlin+Institute+of+Technology/@52.5170503,13.3600752,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xb40aec2d36688d81
Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: S. cerevisiae on July 02, 2015, 06:13:46 PM
The Berlin Technical University (Technische Universatät Berlin) is at the west end of the Tiergarten (the big park and zoo west of the Brandenberger Tor (gate). That places it in West Berlin, so he could have accessed it there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Berlin+Institute+of+Technology/@52.5170503,13.3600752,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xb40aec2d36688d81

Well, that information just made things harder.  :)
Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: S. cerevisiae on July 02, 2015, 06:31:34 PM
Ah, 1338. I loved that yeast. Its sad that its gone from the regular lineup.

Wyeast 1338 was definitely an interesting yeast strain.  It had a unique fermentation profile.  My only guess as to why Wyeast decided to drop the strain was due to reduced demand as more continental strains became available. 

What's interesting about 1338 and 2308 is that their source was an open secret. Wyeast was nowhere near as secretive about the sources of their strains in the nineties as they are today.  However, then again, the craft and home brewing liquid yeast business was nowhere near what it is today.  The propagators cannot afford to have to fend off trademark infringement torts.  White Labs seems to be getting around the trademark problem with many of their strains by naming them after the place where the source was/is located.  If White Labs were to call WLP022 Ridley's Ale instead of Essex Ale, Greene King's legal counsel would have White Labs on speed dial.  The legal counsel for Wells and Young's would do the same thing if WLP006 Bedford British was called WLP006 Charles Wells' Ale or WLP033 Klassic Ale was called WLP033 Young's Ale.
Title: Re: Something to ponder
Post by: hopfenundmalz on July 02, 2015, 06:44:42 PM
Ah, 1338. I loved that yeast. Its sad that its gone from the regular lineup.

Wyeast 1338 was definitely an interesting yeast strain.  It had a unique fermentation profile.  My only guess as to why Wyeast decided to drop the strain was due to reduced demand as more continental strains became available. 

What's interesting about 1338 and 2308 is that their source was an open secret. Wyeast was nowhere near as secretive about the sources of their strains in the nineties as they are today.  However, then again, the craft and home brewing liquid yeast business was nowhere near what it is today.  The propagators cannot afford to have to fend off trademark infringement torts.  White Labs seems to be getting around the trademark problem with many of their strains by naming them after the place where the source was/is located.  If White Labs were to call WLP022 Ridley's Ale instead of Essex Ale, Greene King's legal counsel would have White Labs on speed dial.  The legal counsel for Wells and Young's would do the same thing if WLP006 Bedford British was called WLP006 Charles Wells' Ale or WLP033 Klassic Ale was called WLP033 Young's Ale.

Chris White says they also keep it obscure for the breweries that they do bank yeast for. That would be mainly American brewers as a guess.

Avoiding IP issues is most likely the big reason.