Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: tygo on May 31, 2010, 04:55:03 pm

Title: HSA Temp
Post by: tygo on May 31, 2010, 04:55:03 pm
Sorry, I know this is a controversial topic but I had a little issue with my chill today.  I decided that I had enough ice to chill down my batch but it was hot as hell today and I ran short.  I could only get it down to 82F with my IC/Cooler/Pump setup.  I debated taking the entire kettle to the basement to chill down on its own but ended up transferring it into the carboy instead.  I'm wondering if that was a mistake.

I believe the commonly referenced temp to get under is 80F to avoid HSA so this was borderline.  At this point its done and we'll see what happens.  But anyone have any words of comfort or condemnation on the transfer at 82?
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: weithman5 on May 31, 2010, 05:45:37 pm
RDWHAHB
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: tygo on May 31, 2010, 06:02:15 pm
Yeah, I am.  Two actually  ;D  Like I said it's done and we'll see.  I was just curious if anyone had any thoughts to share.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: dhacker on June 01, 2010, 12:02:37 pm
Are you talking about getting the wort down to pitching temps? I'm no expert on HSA, but it's not associated with chilling the wort AFAIK.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: MDixon on June 01, 2010, 12:28:20 pm
IIRC the temp you want to get down past is 100F-110F or so. For some reason 140F also sticks in my mind. Personally I believe pre-boil HSA is mythical for homebrewers, post boil, a different story.

Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: dhacker on June 01, 2010, 12:44:54 pm
Mike . . does that mean whirlpooling  post boil to get the cone of trub in the bottom of the BK is a chancy procedure?
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: MDixon on June 01, 2010, 01:24:44 pm
Only if you are introducing air. Generally when people whirlpool by hand or with a pump, it is a rapid circular motion which isn't vigorously incorporating air.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: tygo on June 01, 2010, 01:33:44 pm
Are you talking about getting the wort down to pitching temps? I'm no expert on HSA, but it's not associated with chilling the wort AFAIK.

I meant chilling the wort down in the kettle before transferring to the carboy.


IIRC the temp you want to get down past is 100F-110F or so. For some reason 140F also sticks in my mind. Personally I believe pre-boil HSA is mythical for homebrewers, post boil, a different story.

Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.

I chilled it down to below pitching temps in the chest freezer before I pitched the yeast.  I was worried about the transfer at 82 degrees but it sounds like it should be fine.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: denny on June 01, 2010, 03:23:39 pm
IIRC the temp you want to get down past is 100F-110F or so. For some reason 140F also sticks in my mind. Personally I believe pre-boil HSA is mythical for homebrewers, post boil, a different story.

Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.

From the old rcb and HBD discussions, I recall the temp as 85F.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: Hokerer on June 01, 2010, 03:55:56 pm
For some reason 140F also sticks in my mind.

That's the number that I remember too.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: mnstorm99 on June 01, 2010, 04:52:19 pm
Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.

This is what I would be concerned about as well. 

FWIW, I generally stir my cooling wort pretty well from about 140° and below to help get it cool as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: dhacker on June 02, 2010, 12:29:12 am
Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.

Even though I don't do it, this is something I've wondered about . . . Is there a time window of opportunity where you can pitch warm but get the temp down quick enough before active fermentation starts so as not to suffer ill effects from ester production?
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: ndcube on June 02, 2010, 04:50:10 pm
I was worried about the transfer at 82 degrees but it sounds like it should be fine.

Lately I've chilled every batch to 80-84F and then transfered via a siphon.  I havne't noticed any issues with oxidation.  I also gently stir with my chiller on and off.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: tygo on June 02, 2010, 07:37:56 pm
I was worried about the transfer at 82 degrees but it sounds like it should be fine.

Lately I've chilled every batch to 80-84F and then transfered via a siphon.  I havne't noticed any issues with oxidation.  I also gently stir with my chiller on and off.

Good to know.  Thanks!
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: bluesman on June 02, 2010, 08:00:10 pm
According to George Fix's Zymurgy article it is 86F.
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: tomsawyer on June 02, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
Now if you pitched at 82F the problem could be ester formation from the warm start.

Even though I don't do it, this is something I've wondered about . . . Is there a time window of opportunity where you can pitch warm but get the temp down quick enough before active fermentation starts so as not to suffer ill effects from ester production?

If you could get it on down in just another 15 minutes or something, I don't see where it would hurt.  Especially if you used dry yeast which would take some time to rehydrate before becoming active, as opposed to a starter that is raring to go.  Then again, if you could get it down to temp that fast, there'd be no reason not to go ahead and wait.  I've taken to getting my wort below my intended fermentation temp, then letting it come up.  This generally takes a few hours in my swamp cooler, but I feel its the safer way to go.

I had a fellow in our brew club the other day who was showing someone how to make beer for the first time, and he told her to pitch the yeast when the wort got below 90F.  I wanted to gag, but he was hosting and I didn't challenge him.  I did tell the group  later about my thoughts on pitching temps though.


I
Title: Re: HSA Temp
Post by: denny on June 02, 2010, 10:01:17 pm
I was damn close....