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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Frankenbrew on July 30, 2015, 09:02:21 am

Title: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Frankenbrew on July 30, 2015, 09:02:21 am
Hi all,

Last winter/spring I brewed two lagers, a dunkel and a maibock. The dunkel was 90+% light Munich malt, and the maibock was about 60% pilsner and the rest light Munich. They were both fermented with the same Saflager 34/70. The both tasted great. The problem was/is that after the first few sips, there is no head or foam left in the glass.

Now before you think it's the glasses, let me tell you that I have five taps going all  the time, and none of my ales has this problem. I hand wash and dry my beer glasses, and I've pretty much ruled them  out.

Is it the yeast? That and the Munich malt are the common variables here.

I'm done with lagers for this year, though it would be nice to have a new approach for next lager season. Thanks in advance for your help.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: denny on July 30, 2015, 09:12:17 am
The fermentation process plays a very large role in foam production and retention.  This article not only explains what's going on, but has tests you can do to help you diagnose your problem. 

http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on July 30, 2015, 09:25:54 am
Is it possible you didn't pitch enough yeast? Lagers need about double the cells that ales need. They need to be pithed cold (48 degrees is not too cold) and fermented cold for a few days before warming for a d-rest.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: dmtaylor on July 30, 2015, 09:57:39 am
I can't say for sure what it is.  Did you ferment too warm?  Fusels will kill head.  Probably not though.

I'll give you an easy fix for the future, though --- add 5-10% rye malt next time.  You'll get head with rye like you've never had before, I can virtually guarantee it.  They used to say this always about wheat, but now I'm telling you, it's rye.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: a10t2 on July 30, 2015, 10:02:17 am
Excessive aging and contact with autolyzed yeast could also be a factor.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: denny on July 30, 2015, 11:51:35 am
I can't say for sure what it is.  Did you ferment too warm?  Fusels will kill head.  Probably not though.

I'll give you an easy fix for the future, though --- add 5-10% rye malt next time.  You'll get head with rye like you've never had before, I can virtually guarantee it.  They used to say this always about wheat, but now I'm telling you, it's rye.

Not in my experience.  If there's something screwed up, all the protein laden malts in the world won't help/.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: rabeb25 on July 30, 2015, 12:24:05 pm
I can assure you its not the Munich or the 34/70.

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11694886_595091470633457_5955441040524413098_n.jpg?oh=6b23e70f6587c8b26270ea4f7681f6e0&oe=563EB23D)

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11703193_595091480633456_4547370132988721138_n.jpg?oh=84c0f72c8bc041e731b9b343afcf9abe&oe=563E8A00)
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: beersk on July 30, 2015, 12:49:23 pm
Perhaps the pH got too low in the mash and kettle?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: brewinhard on July 30, 2015, 12:57:27 pm
Perhaps the pH got too low in the mash and kettle?

How low would that have to be to hurt head retention?  Below 5?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: wobdee on July 30, 2015, 02:14:04 pm
I see this as well. My Ales have no problems with head but my lagers seem to drop the head quickly and have little lacing. I've tried Carapils and Carafoam but it doesn't seem to help. Next on my list is raising the mash PH a bit to 5.5-5.6 and lowering PH in the kettle down to 5.2-5.3 similar to what rabeb does.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: denny on July 30, 2015, 02:16:00 pm
I see this as well. My Ales have no problems with head but my lagers seem to drop the head quickly and have little lacing. I've tried Carapils and Carafoam but it doesn't seem to help. Next on my list is raising the mash PH a bit to 5.5-5.6 and lowering PH in the kettle down to 5.2-5.3 similar to what rabeb does.

Read the article in the link I posted.  It will help you diagnose the problem.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: AmandaK on July 31, 2015, 06:10:56 am
I see this as well. My Ales have no problems with head but my lagers seem to drop the head quickly and have little lacing. I've tried Carapils and Carafoam but it doesn't seem to help. Next on my list is raising the mash PH a bit to 5.5-5.6 and lowering PH in the kettle down to 5.2-5.3 similar to what rabeb does.
This Pilsner had a mash pH of 5.3. Many of my beers are done in the 5.2-5.4 range.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/31/4be4eea6d82ee1cb6d6872999e89f926.jpg)

It is not likely the mash pH being too low, unless the similar colored ales have the same problem. Denny's article has some good hints/tips.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: beersk on July 31, 2015, 07:31:22 am
I see this as well. My Ales have no problems with head but my lagers seem to drop the head quickly and have little lacing. I've tried Carapils and Carafoam but it doesn't seem to help. Next on my list is raising the mash PH a bit to 5.5-5.6 and lowering PH in the kettle down to 5.2-5.3 similar to what rabeb does.

Read the article in the link I posted.  It will help you diagnose the problem.
I feel like there's more to it than just fermentation temperature, but not sure what it would be. I don't see a huge difference between my ales and lagers, head retention-wise. Once in a while I'll have a beer where the head drops and looks like soda...that really annoys me. I'm not sure what the deal is when that happens, it's either lagers or ales. I don't think it has to do with lager yeast vs ale yeast.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: jtoots on July 31, 2015, 08:13:17 am
Potentially related:  I've recently brewed 10 gallons of a Munich Helles.  The first 5 gallons went straight from fermenter to keg to kegerator and the head was great.  The second 5 gallons, after kegging, sat in the basement at ambient until the first was kicked.  Head dissipates almost instantly on this second keg.  In this case I think the only two options are storage at high temp after lagering or oxygenation while sitting in the keg on deck.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: hopfenundmalz on July 31, 2015, 09:27:26 am
The OP,didn't say how the mash was conducted, time and temp are important.

A protein rest is not good for head retention with modern malts. A rest at ~160F can aid head retention.

Read towards the bottom of this.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Starch_Conversion
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: dmtaylor on July 31, 2015, 12:52:34 pm
The OP,didn't say how the mash was conducted, time and temp are important.

A protein rest is not good for head retention with modern malts.

Bingo!  Give this man a prize.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on August 01, 2015, 07:07:04 am
I can assure you its not the Munich or the 34/70.

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11694886_595091470633457_5955441040524413098_n.jpg?oh=6b23e70f6587c8b26270ea4f7681f6e0&oe=563EB23D)

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11703193_595091480633456_4547370132988721138_n.jpg?oh=84c0f72c8bc041e731b9b343afcf9abe&oe=563E8A00)

Didn't you say you use chit malt?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Frankenbrew on August 01, 2015, 08:21:54 am
Potentially related:  I've recently brewed 10 gallons of a Munich Helles.  The first 5 gallons went straight from fermenter to keg to kegerator and the head was great.  The second 5 gallons, after kegging, sat in the basement at ambient until the first was kicked.  Head dissipates almost instantly on this second keg.  In this case I think the only two options are storage at high temp after lagering or oxygenation while sitting in the keg on deck.

Thank you all for some great information!

I was definitely looking in the wrong direction. My mash ph, time and temp were fine, but the fermentation and lagering were definitely less than ideal. I don't have temperature control, but my cellar is cool enough for a lager fermentation during the winter/spring months. But, after they were done fermenting I lagered them at ambient temperature as the above poster discussed. With all that has been discussed, including the article, that seems the most plausible cause in this case.

I guess the reason I'm miffed is because both beers tasted great, no fusels or solvents. They were very clean and tasty. I mistakingly thought that even though the conditions were not the greatest, if they tasted good, then all is well. That's what is great about this hobby, one never stops learning.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: rabeb25 on August 01, 2015, 04:35:29 pm
I can assure you its not the Munich or the 34/70.

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11694886_595091470633457_5955441040524413098_n.jpg?oh=6b23e70f6587c8b26270ea4f7681f6e0&oe=563EB23D)

(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11703193_595091480633456_4547370132988721138_n.jpg?oh=84c0f72c8bc041e731b9b343afcf9abe&oe=563E8A00)

Didn't you say you use chit malt?

Indeed I do... However none in this beer!
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: BrewHalla on August 01, 2015, 07:51:12 pm
Like people are saying there are lots of reasons for loss of head retention.  "Using a lare portion of adjuncts, poor malt quality, or processing problems (addition of foam surpressors during fermentation,excessive foaming during fermentation, excessive co2 scrubbing to the beer to remove oxygen, incidental addition of surface active cleaning agents, etc) causing beer to lose its inherent foaming abilities"  you can always buy some propylene glycol alginate and add it to the keg to get some head retention back, if you're that concerned to want to do something to the beer now
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on August 02, 2015, 07:13:53 am
Using too much fining can be a huge problem for head retention. Whirlflock may be the culprit (or Irish Moss). For a 5 gallon batch you really only need half a tablet of whirlflock. If using something else (Super Moss or plain old Irish Moss) be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions carefully.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 02, 2015, 07:34:46 am
Using too much fining can be a huge problem for head retention. Whirlflock may be the culprit (or Irish Moss).

That's good info, Keith - never heard that. I know you only need half a tablet, but I just drop a whole one in for convenience. My beers don't have any head retention issues, but it's something to keep in mind anyway.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on August 02, 2015, 09:27:06 am
The actual dosage of WF is also based on OG. It is 2 tabs per bbl per 10 degree brix.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: a10t2 on August 02, 2015, 01:34:34 pm
Which works out to half a tablet for 5-6 gal at 5-6% ABV. Which is nice.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: JT on August 02, 2015, 06:58:42 pm
Using too much fining can be a huge problem for head retention. Whirlflock may be the culprit (or Irish Moss).

That's good info, Keith - never heard that. I know you only need half a tablet, but I just drop a whole one in for convenience. My beers don't have any head retention issues, but it's something to keep in mind anyway.
This is new for me as well and good to keep in mind.  I only use hot side fining, exclusively Irish moss and not for every brew.  No issues with head retention using around 1.5 grams per 6 gallon batch. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: klickitat jim on August 02, 2015, 09:54:36 pm
Does too much wirlfloc strip too much foam positive material? Or does the excess wirlfloc stay behind and cause the problem,
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Philbrew on August 02, 2015, 10:01:07 pm
Using too much fining can be a huge problem for head retention. Whirlflock may be the culprit (or Irish Moss). For a 5 gallon batch you really only need half a tablet of whirlflock. If using something else (Super Moss or plain old Irish Moss) be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions carefully.
Hmmmm, I do have some head retention problems.  I do 6 gal. extract and partial mash batches and have been throwing in a whirlfloc tab just because.  But, now that I think about it, there's probably some such thing already in the extract. 
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: The Professor on August 03, 2015, 05:16:54 am
Excessive aging and contact with autolyzed yeast could also be a factor.

Perhaps oxidation could be contributing to a lack of foam?

In any case, I wouldn't blame aging, necessarily.  I can't speak with regard to lagers specifically since while I love them, I rarely brew them...but my  IPA, Porter, and Barleywine/Burton which I brew a lot of and all of which get an average of 8-12 months aging at minimum (and in some cases far longer)  tend to pour pretty consistently with very long lasting heads of foam that leave a generous, clinging  lacing on the glass.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: jtoots on August 04, 2015, 08:04:04 am
Potentially related:  I've recently brewed 10 gallons of a Munich Helles.  The first 5 gallons went straight from fermenter to keg to kegerator and the head was great.  The second 5 gallons, after kegging, sat in the basement at ambient until the first was kicked.  Head dissipates almost instantly on this second keg.  In this case I think the only two options are storage at high temp after lagering or oxygenation while sitting in the keg on deck.

Thank you all for some great information!

I was definitely looking in the wrong direction. My mash ph, time and temp were fine, but the fermentation and lagering were definitely less than ideal. I don't have temperature control, but my cellar is cool enough for a lager fermentation during the winter/spring months. But, after they were done fermenting I lagered them at ambient temperature as the above poster discussed. With all that has been discussed, including the article, that seems the most plausible cause in this case.

I guess the reason I'm miffed is because both beers tasted great, no fusels or solvents. They were very clean and tasty. I mistakingly thought that even though the conditions were not the greatest, if they tasted good, then all is well. That's what is great about this hobby, one never stops learning.

Thanks again!

Cha-Ching!
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: beersk on August 04, 2015, 11:41:34 am
I'm more inclined to point towards the health of the yeast. I've had a few beers do this, both ale and lager, where it doesn't hold a head and goes flat looking. Fermentation temps were good, and were kegged and chilled immediately following fermentation (2 weeks or so). But I guess I'm just spit balling...
I don't think it's necessarily letting the beer sit at ambient temps for an extended time. Either way, it doesn't happen all the time, so it's really hard to say what the cause is. I guess, like Frankenbrew said, if it tastes good, what's it matter? There's lots of commercial beers that do this as well, especially a lot of the American lagers (all of them, really...). What's the cause of the head falling in those beers? Adjuncts? Doesn't seem likely, but I don't know...
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: mpietropaoli on December 04, 2015, 06:48:55 am
Resurrecting this one as I have a German pils with good head formation, but no head retention. 

We brewed 20 gallons of wort (5 of which was used for a saison) and I believe we added about 4 tabs (1 per five gallons as opposed to 1/2 per five gallons). 

I have been searching high and low to diagnose this.  Does excessive whirfloc negatively impact just head retention or head formation?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 04, 2015, 07:17:46 am
Using too much fining can be a huge problem for head retention. Whirlflock may be the culprit (or Irish Moss). For a 5 gallon batch you really only need half a tablet of whirlflock. If using something else (Super Moss or plain old Irish Moss) be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions carefully.


I remembered Keith posting this.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: denny on December 04, 2015, 10:01:53 am
Resurrecting this one as I have a German pils with good head formation, but no head retention. 

We brewed 20 gallons of wort (5 of which was used for a saison) and I believe we added about 4 tabs (1 per five gallons as opposed to 1/2 per five gallons). 

I have been searching high and low to diagnose this.  Does excessive whirfloc negatively impact just head retention or head formation?
Excessive whirlfloc could, but what do you consider excessive?  Read this...it not only has explanations, but there are tests you can do to help you dagnose your problem.

http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Stevie on December 04, 2015, 10:20:50 am
Denny, one of the possible causes listed in the article is using a weak boil. Have you noticed any foam issues with the Zymatic considering it never hit a true boil?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: denny on December 04, 2015, 10:23:20 am
Denny, one of the possible causes listed in the article is using a weak boil. Have you noticed any foam issues with the Zymatic considering it never hit a true boil?

Nope, absolutely non.  Keep in mind that there's nothing magical about hitting 212 compared to 207.  The reason you need the extra few degrees is to get the wort moving in a normal kettle.  Since the Z recircs constantly you get the same effect.  A weak boil implies no wort movement.  That doesn't happen with a Z.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 04, 2015, 07:47:10 pm
I have also had plenty of my beers that have weak head retention. I get good foam on a pour but it disapates quickly leave little to no lasting head. Sometimes it's better than others, sometimes lacing is decent, sometimes not. I don't know where I am going wrong in my process. One thought I had after all this time is when I rack from the kettle to my fermenter, I always let the wort splash into the fermenter from a small legth of tubing on the kettle spigot. This creates tons of foam which I thought, hey extra oxygen. Well, today I didn't do that, I racked gently to my new carboy and oxygenated with pure o2. Lets see if this is an improvement. Other than that I don't know what could be my culprit, I feel I have pretty decent brewing practices after 6 years but there has to be something.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: charles1968 on December 05, 2015, 02:22:58 am
Just to complicate things further, yeast strain makes a difference to head retention and you can see the effect in the krausen. If the krausen refuses to drop (WLP800 pilsner and Wyeast3711 saison spring to mind), the beer will have good head retention. I get poor retention from W34/70 but great persistent heads from WLP800. Danstar Nottingham worse than Chico/US05. I'd say Nottingham gives the worst head retention of all the yeasts I've used.

A bit more info here but shows a limited range of yeasts:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02755.x/pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjm7amOssTJAhXBtBQKHd2kBTYQFgghMAE&usg=AFQjCNGIdEQEvDsFnnV3frkQUOz9GqwV_Q&sig2=mdxtIhSFGQbELF26RHAD3g
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: klickitat jim on December 05, 2015, 03:16:50 am
ABV probably effects it too, at least that seems to be a common denominator I've noticed. In my personal experience, no scientific data or qualified peer review, it seems like 4% beers retain foam a bit better than 14%.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on December 05, 2015, 03:39:44 am
One of the possible culprits for head retention could possibly, maybe, perhaps be lipids in the mash. Maybe. Perhaps. If your filtering technique is inadequate it's possible you are pulling a lot of lipids over which can cause problems with head retention and premature staling post packaging. Using a grant may help reduce lipids from being stripped from the mash.That said, it may not. But it might. Maybe.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: klickitat jim on December 05, 2015, 03:58:09 am
Ah... I sense another theory rabbit hole. Can lautering too fast negatively effect foam? I say... I don't know. Maybe, depends on who's asking.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: pete b on December 05, 2015, 05:47:30 am
One of the possible culprits for head retention could possibly, maybe, perhaps be lipids in the mash. Maybe. Perhaps. If your filtering technique is inadequate it's possible you are pulling a lot of lipids over which can cause problems with head retention and premature staling post packaging. Using a grant may help reduce lipids from being stripped from the mash.That said, it may not. But it might. Maybe.
So Keith, your positive about this?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: erockrph on December 05, 2015, 06:44:00 am
Hmmm. I've been getting something similar on my lagers. The head drops quick and I'm left with a few lingering "rafts" of foam floating on top. The thing is, it's only on my lagers. Something like a saison with a similar grain/hop bill to my lagers gets a huge head for days.

I have thought it might be diacetyl, but I always do a long d-rest and taste for diacetyl before starting the lagering process. I also consider myself rather sensitive to it, but maybe I'm not and I just dislike it at high levels. I'm interested to see where this conversation goes.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Frankenbrew on December 05, 2015, 07:14:39 am
Just to complicate things further, yeast strain makes a difference to head retention and you can see the effect in the krausen. If the krausen refuses to drop (WLP800 pilsner and Wyeast3711 saison spring to mind), the beer will have good head retention. I get poor retention from W34/70 but great persistent heads from WLP800. Danstar Nottingham worse than Chico/US05. I'd say Nottingham gives the worst head retention of all the yeasts I've used.

A bit more info here but shows a limited range of yeasts:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02755.x/pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjm7amOssTJAhXBtBQKHd2kBTYQFgghMAE&usg=AFQjCNGIdEQEvDsFnnV3frkQUOz9GqwV_Q&sig2=mdxtIhSFGQbELF26RHAD3g

Is it the 34/70? How many of us are using it in our lagers?
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: erockrph on December 05, 2015, 07:26:37 am
Just to complicate things further, yeast strain makes a difference to head retention and you can see the effect in the krausen. If the krausen refuses to drop (WLP800 pilsner and Wyeast3711 saison spring to mind), the beer will have good head retention. I get poor retention from W34/70 but great persistent heads from WLP800. Danstar Nottingham worse than Chico/US05. I'd say Nottingham gives the worst head retention of all the yeasts I've used.

A bit more info here but shows a limited range of yeasts:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2005.02755.x/pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjm7amOssTJAhXBtBQKHd2kBTYQFgghMAE&usg=AFQjCNGIdEQEvDsFnnV3frkQUOz9GqwV_Q&sig2=mdxtIhSFGQbELF26RHAD3g

Is it the 34/70? How many of us are using it in our lagers?
I've gotten it from 2278 and 2633 (a blend - who knows what's in there) for sure. I don't recall whether I've gotten it from 34/70, WY2000 or WY2007 or not.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 05, 2015, 07:37:09 am
I've had good luck with foam using 2124 and 833. I don't remember a problem with other strains, but I also don't remember stellar foam on those either .
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on December 05, 2015, 07:41:45 am
One of the possible culprits for head retention could possibly, maybe, perhaps be lipids in the mash. Maybe. Perhaps. If your filtering technique is inadequate it's possible you are pulling a lot of lipids over which can cause problems with head retention and premature staling post packaging. Using a grant may help reduce lipids from being stripped from the mash.That said, it may not. But it might. Maybe.
So Keith, your positive about this?

I actually do think it can be a potential problem based on my experiences.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: charles1968 on December 05, 2015, 07:49:00 am
Another issue that's easier to check is whether there's residual detergent on your beer glass from a dishwasher machine. Try one glass from dishwasher compared to one that's been rinsed properly under the tap.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Stevie on December 05, 2015, 07:49:51 am

I actually do think it can be a potential problem based on my experiences.
Is it possible, at all likely, within reason, perhaps, conceivably, that you could be mistaken.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: Frankenbrew on December 05, 2015, 07:54:34 am
Another issue that's easier to check is whether there's residual detergent on your beer glass from a dishwasher machine. Try one glass from dishwasher compared to one that's been rinsed properly under the tap.

This has come up, and many of us wash our beer glasses by hand using hot water to repeatedly rinse them. But you're right, this is probably the first place to look when one discovers the problem.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: majorvices on December 05, 2015, 08:11:29 am

I actually do think it can be a potential problem based on my experiences.
Is it possible, at all likely, within reason, perhaps, conceivably, that you could be mistaken.

Possibly there is a potential factor of error in my reasoning but perhaps that is unlikely.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 05, 2015, 08:14:14 am
I'm 37% sure that I understand 71% of this.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: a10t2 on December 05, 2015, 09:35:45 am
I'm 37% sure that I understand 71% of this.

Well, if Keith says it's definitely happening and you're 108% sure he's right, I'm going to start treating my wort with lipase enzymes and conclude that it makes my beers much better.
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 05, 2015, 09:55:32 am
I'm 37% sure that I understand 71% of this.

Well, if Keith says it's definitely happening and you're 108% sure he's right, I'm going to start treating my wort with lipase enzymes and conclude that it makes my beers much better.

Nice!
Title: Re: No head retention in lagers
Post by: PORTERHAUS on December 06, 2015, 07:21:06 am
One of the possible culprits for head retention could possibly, maybe, perhaps be lipids in the mash. Maybe. Perhaps. If your filtering technique is inadequate it's possible you are pulling a lot of lipids over which can cause problems with head retention and premature staling post packaging. Using a grant may help reduce lipids from being stripped from the mash.That said, it may not. But it might. Maybe.
So Keith, your positive about this?

I actually do think it can be a potential problem based on my experiences.


How are these lipids stripped from the mash, what is actually happening or going wrong to cause this if it is potential for problems? You know, if there is by chance any relitivety to the possibility?