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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: run4beer on June 13, 2010, 07:29:49 pm

Title: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: run4beer on June 13, 2010, 07:29:49 pm
I live in California. I know there are laws here again selling my homebrew.

Does anyone know if there is a legal way for me to give my beer away for a donation to a charity?
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 13, 2010, 08:17:36 pm
I know people who have auctioned off brewing lessons.  The winner gets to brew with you and keep the beer.  If they pitch the yeast, they then have made the beer in most states.

Don't know if this is the answer you were after, but that is one way to do it.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 13, 2010, 08:33:37 pm
Look for a local brewfest that donates it's proceeds to charity and maybe you could pour your beer there. Maybe a local home brew club already does and join the club. You may be stuck with what the brewfest chooses as a charity. If you want to have some say in the charity donated to, volunteer to be on the beerfest board. That way you can donate beer and your time. That is what I do. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: a10t2 on June 13, 2010, 10:35:38 pm
I don't see why it would be illegal to give the beer away, as long as the recipient is of age. What are you thinking the issue is?

edit: For some reason I didn't realize that there was money involved. You're wanting to use it as a prize for a raffle or something?
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: dbeechum on June 13, 2010, 11:14:26 pm
The issue is that tickets are sold and to a certain minded sort of inspector type, that means the prize in question is being sold for a monetary value. Monetary value + home brew = no no. And that's before you get to the part where states get antsy about "free" giveaways of booze and particularly someone non-licensed giving away booze.

Lessons is definitely the way to go.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: bo_gator on June 14, 2010, 06:58:06 pm
This Saturday (6/19) my local area is having a charity home brew festival, and the way they got around it is NC did not like selling tickets to an event where untaxed beer is being given away, so they started a "join the charity" fee and the state let it go. So for $15 you can become a member of the charity and enjoy ~ 5-6 hours of free home brewed beer, not sure of this would fly in other states or not
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: speed on June 15, 2010, 11:15:58 am
i have been donating beer to local charities for years and the local sheriff and state patrol have neither one said i couldn't do it.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: The Rabid Brewer on June 15, 2010, 02:44:27 pm

Can't be done legally unless it's a competition. CA state law allows you to brew for personal use and only remove beer from your premises for competition. I.e., you can't even give it away.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california)

Quote
California state statute § 23356.2 allows the manufacture of beer for personal or family use, and not for sale by a person over the age of 21. The aggregate amount of beer with respect to any household shall not exceed 200 gallons or 100 gallons if only one adult resides in such household.

Any beer manufactured pursuant to this section may be removed from the premises where manufactured for use in competition at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, including homemakers' contests, tastings, or judgings.

Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: narcout on June 17, 2010, 10:58:50 am
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california)

Quote
California state statute § 23356.2 allows the manufacture of beer for personal or family use, and not for sale by a person over the age of 21. The aggregate amount of beer with respect to any household shall not exceed 200 gallons or 100 gallons if only one adult resides in such household.

Any beer manufactured pursuant to this section may be removed from the premises where manufactured for use in competition at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, including homemakers' contests, tastings, or judgings.

It seems like there could be a bit of leeway as to what constitutes a homemaker's tasting. I wonder if there's any interpretive case law concerning this statute. It would be a simple search on Westlaw or LexisNexis.

Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: bonjour on June 21, 2010, 09:54:46 pm
I live in California. I know there are laws here again selling my homebrew.

Does anyone know if there is a legal way for me to give my beer away for a donation to a charity?
How about an alternative

You can "teach" the winner to brew beer, have them brew with you, pitch the yeast, come back in an appropriate amount of time and bottle the beer.

That way it is always "their" beer

Fred
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on June 23, 2010, 03:25:06 pm
Look for a local brewfest that donates it's proceeds to charity and maybe you could pour your beer there. Maybe a local home brew club already does and join the club.
I think all beer for brew fest has to be purchased at least in our state.
So that would not fly.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: jonlcrow on March 21, 2013, 09:25:57 pm
I was thinking the same thing.

What if I brewed at a pizza place and hosted the charity event on site. Then gave away the beer. Aside from that if they wanted to donate some money to a charity they could.

There wouldn't be a quid pro quo but I have to imagine if they just drink the beer and don't donate they would feel really guilty;)

Or could the restaurant organize a brewfest every other week?
Title: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: denny on March 21, 2013, 10:22:27 pm
I was thinking the same thing.

What if I brewed at a pizza place and hosted the charity event on site. Then gave away the beer. Aside from that if they wanted to donate some money to a charity they could.

There wouldn't be a quid pro quo but I have to imagine if they just drink the beer and don't donate they would feel really guilty;)

Or could the restaurant organize a brewfest every other week?

You should probably get legal advice from a lawyer rather than homebrewers.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: gymrat on March 22, 2013, 08:26:54 am
Even if we play lawyers on the internet?
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: Jimmy K on March 22, 2013, 08:49:45 am
What if I brewed at a pizza place and hosted the charity event on site. Then gave away the beer. Aside from that if they wanted to donate some money to a charity they could.
I'm only an armchair lawyer, like an armchair quarterback, but brewing in a commercial business without a license has all sorts of bells and alarms going off in my head. Better to brew at home and bring it to the business. Also, check what your state laws say about bringing homebrew to tastings, exhibitions, etc.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: reverseapachemaster on March 22, 2013, 09:29:58 am
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california)

Quote
California state statute § 23356.2 allows the manufacture of beer for personal or family use, and not for sale by a person over the age of 21. The aggregate amount of beer with respect to any household shall not exceed 200 gallons or 100 gallons if only one adult resides in such household.

Any beer manufactured pursuant to this section may be removed from the premises where manufactured for use in competition at organized affairs, exhibitions or competitions, including homemakers' contests, tastings, or judgings.

It seems like there could be a bit of leeway as to what constitutes a homemaker's tasting. I wonder if there's any interpretive case law concerning this statute. It would be a simple search on Westlaw or LexisNexis.

I would be surprised to find any homebrewer has challenged the state ABC's construction of that rule in a court willing to issue a written opinion, let alone by receiving formal opinion from the ABC itself. When I had unlimited Lexis and Westlaw access I checked for all homebrewing judicial opinions in the country and only came across a few cases where prisoners were challenging punishment for making hooch in their cells and then several prohibition era cases.

If you apply the last antecedent rule to the comma placement and standard rules of statutory construction you wouldn't splice out "tastings" and give it any meaning inconsistent with the words around it. So a "tasting" would be limited to an event similar to a "competition at organized affairs", "exhibitions", "competitions", "contests", or "judgings". In that framework it's unlikely a "tasting" would stretch so far as to include giving the beer away for charity. Even if it did, the list following "including" is illustrative and therefore would not be binding on either the courts or ABC. (Expressio unius est exclusio alterius.)

Under the CA statute the charity could probably sponsor a homebrewing competition and take entry fees but that is definitely not the same as giving the charity your beer and letting them sell it or include it in a raffle or included in the cost of admittance to a charitable event. For the charity to distribute beer or host any sort of tasting it likely needs a permit from the ABC. Probably not worth the effort or liability on the charity's part. Similarly I would not encourage a business, whether it normally sells alcoholic beverages or not, to sponsor an event where beer is given away without doing a lot more research on CA law and the required permits.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 22, 2013, 01:30:03 pm
Can't do any of that in IL....only allowed to be possessed by the "maker, his family and guests", so we need some reforms, badly.  They don't hassle the competitions, but they have prevented homebrew at festivals where taxed beer is served.  As to Wisconsin, I attend an annual brew fest that is a charitable event and they have a small area devoted to homebrew, after the law was changed there (they suspended it a couple years back due to uncertainty but then brought it back).  It's a big deal in Racine at a public venue, so I am pretty sure that they comply with WI law....
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: dirk_mclargehuge on March 22, 2013, 02:46:34 pm
This Saturday (6/19) my local area is having a charity home brew festival, and the way they got around it is NC did not like selling tickets to an event where untaxed beer is being given away, so they started a "join the charity" fee and the state let it go. So for $15 you can become a member of the charity and enjoy ~ 5-6 hours of free home brewed beer, not sure of this would fly in other states or not
It wouldn't fly in Texas. You can't put a barrier between people and beer. That's how I can get into Sam's and Costco without a membership.  ;D
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: tomsawyer on March 22, 2013, 03:18:07 pm
Of course its not legal in most states.  But I would ask, does anyone know of a person who was arrested/fined for this?  As a one-time donation to a charity auction it is really limited and not worth a law enforcement officer's time or effort.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: thetooth on March 22, 2013, 04:02:52 pm
I know people who have auctioned off brewing lessons.  The winner gets to brew with you and keep the beer.  If they pitch the yeast, they then have made the beer in most states.

Don't know if this is the answer you were after, but that is one way to do it.

I've done this in CA.  It brings in more money for the charity and I feel like I'm helping someone possibly start the hobby rather than just giving them beer.  I also brewed a 10 gallon batch with the winners so I could keep 5 for myself.   ;)
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: Jimmy K on March 22, 2013, 04:52:09 pm
Of course its not legal in most states.  But I would ask, does anyone know of a person who was arrested/fined for this?  As a one-time donation to a charity auction it is really limited and not worth a law enforcement officer's time or effort.
I imagine without true intent to profit, the most ABC will do is shut the event down. Especially if it comes down to interpretation of a law.

I've also heard of events where everyone is a judge and votes so the event is a competition - surely to skirt these rules.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 23, 2013, 06:02:16 am
In Illinois the law has been enforced:

http://www.pjstar.com/entertainment/x643675111/Illinois-Liquor-Control-Commission-enforces-law-no-home-brews-at-festival

Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: tomsawyer on March 24, 2013, 06:15:09 am
I know fesitvals have been shut down in both IL and MO.  This isn't the same as an individual donating a case of homebrew for a charity auction.  Plus, I asked if anyone has been fined, and these festivals were shut down in advance when a permit was sought.
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: ynotbrusum on March 24, 2013, 06:38:54 am
I know fesitvals have been shut down in both IL and MO.  This isn't the same as an individual donating a case of homebrew for a charity auction.  Plus, I asked if anyone has been fined, and these festivals were shut down in advance when a permit was sought.

Agreed, but why subject the charity to a potential problem?  The laws should be relaxed and then we wouldn't have a worry about things that are at most a petty nuisance..
Title: Re: Using my Homebrew to raise money for charity
Post by: tomsawyer on March 25, 2013, 05:53:21 am
I know fesitvals have been shut down in both IL and MO.  This isn't the same as an individual donating a case of homebrew for a charity auction.  Plus, I asked if anyone has been fined, and these festivals were shut down in advance when a permit was sought.

Agreed, but why subject the charity to a potential problem?  The laws should be relaxed and then we wouldn't have a worry about things that are at most a petty nuisance..
Agreed.  I do think theres a difference between donating something for later consumption, versus pouring beer at an event.  Certainly the latter has more complicating ramifications as far as changing laws.