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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Kaiser on June 15, 2010, 04:33:23 PM

Title: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 15, 2010, 04:33:23 PM
I plan to bring a number of beers to the NHC for sharing and I assume others will do the same.

To get the most out of it I wouldn’t mind meeting up with those of you who are at the NHC and are interested, find a quiet corner and sample each other’s beer.  This way I may palate may still be intact to enjoy some of the more delicate beers.

Any takers?

Kai
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 15, 2010, 04:41:56 PM
Kai,

If I was able to attend I would definitely take you up on this offer. Thanks, but can I get a raincheck for next year's NHC because I am going to make every effort to attend next year.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 15, 2010, 06:32:18 PM
I'd love to taste, but since I'm flying I'll have nothing to share.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: theDarkSide on June 15, 2010, 06:42:36 PM
I'd love to taste, but since I'm flying I'll have nothing to share.

Why's that?  You don't really need clothes.  Pack them in your suitcase.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 15, 2010, 06:43:04 PM
I'd love to taste, but since I'm flying I'll have nothing to share.

I hear you and many others will have the same problem. I plan to pay for checked luggage one way to bring some beers.

I just checked Delta's baggage restrictions and it does not limit the amount of alcohol in the checked luggage.

Kai
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 15, 2010, 08:54:46 PM
I'd love to taste, but since I'm flying I'll have nothing to share.

I hear you and many others will have the same problem. I plan to pay for checked luggage one way to bring some beers.

I just checked Delta's baggage restrictions and it does not limit the amount of alcohol in the checked luggage.

Kai

I checked baggage, too, but no room for beer.  I didn't even bring my ukulele!
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: MrNate on June 16, 2010, 01:31:25 AM
I'd love to taste, but since I'm flying I'll have nothing to share.

I hear you and many others will have the same problem. I plan to pay for checked luggage one way to bring some beers.

I just checked Delta's baggage restrictions and it does not limit the amount of alcohol in the checked luggage.

Kai

I checked baggage, too, but no room for beer.  I didn't even bring my ukulele!

Heresy! Heresy, I tell you!
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 16, 2010, 02:32:19 AM
I would like to share, I'm bringing my dort that is in the second round. I'm even bringing a Wrye IPA to temp Denny's palate. I will have a hospitality suite set up in my room. PM me to set up a tasting. I'm sure Thirsty Monk and On the Keg and AOD will be around as we have agreed to meet up.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: MDixon on June 16, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
I'll be glad to taste anyone's beer, but please don't ask my opinion of it unless you truly want to know! Club night is really the place for beer tasting  ;)
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 16, 2010, 01:39:30 PM
Club night is really the place for beer tasting  ;)

If club night it like some of our club meetings I think it would be nicer and more enjoyable to taste beers in a smaller group and less noisy setting. I don't think club night would be the time when you really critique a beer. I don't see myself making negative comments at club night. Not having been there before, but I think of club night as the place to walk around enjoy beer and hopefully have some good conversations.

I always want to have honest feedback and more importantly be able to discuss it. In the end I tend to me my worst critic anyway.

Kai

Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 16, 2010, 02:59:27 PM
I'm with ya, Kai.  Club night is great, but between the plethora of beer and food and the commotion, it isn't my first choice for critical beer tasting.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Jeff Renner on June 17, 2010, 03:33:53 AM
After many years of my asking clubs to have at least one beer of session strength (I recognize that we're trying to show off our biggest and baddest beers), the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild (AABG) has decided to present a session beer themed club night.  So please stop by our British Pub at club night and take a break from the liver-busting (albeit tasty) beers and relax.  I think we have about a dozen tasty but low alcohol beers.

One beer that we are presenting is my "April 7, 1933," a 3.2% abw (4.0% abv) Classic American Pilsner.

Here is my "point-of-sale" description"

"In March, 1933, just after FDR and the new congress took office, Congress passed the Cullen-Harrison Act, amending the Volstead Act, and raising the definition of "intoxicating liquor" under the 18th Amendment from 0.5% abw to 3.2% abw (4.0% abv).  The act went into effect on April 7, 1933; breweries shipped at midnight and taverns opened at that hour.  After 13 years, thirsty Americans at last could have a beer.

"This is that beer."
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 17, 2010, 04:25:27 AM
One beer that we are presenting is my "April 7, 1933," a 3.2% abw (4.0% abv) Classic American Pilsner.

Here is my "point-of-sale" description"

"In March, 1933, just after FDR and the new congress took office, Congress passed the Cullen-Harrison Act, amending the Volstead Act, and raising the definition of "intoxicating liquor" under the 18th Amendment from 0.5% abw to 3.2% abw (4.0% abv).  The act went into effect on April 7, 1933; breweries shipped at midnight and taverns opened at that hour.  After 13 years, thirsty Americans at last could have a beer.

"This is that beer."

I was fortunate to try Jeff's beer yesterday....it was absolutely delicious.  If I could brew somehting that good, I'd be drinking a lot more 3.2% beers.  Of course, I'd have to change my sig to "Life begins at 32...";)
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: narvin on June 17, 2010, 06:12:44 AM
Wish I could be there.  Maybe next year.  In the meantime, I might have to send Kai a bottle of my latest German pils in exchange for something delicious of his  ;)
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: joelambic on June 17, 2010, 06:32:00 AM
I couldn't make it to the Conference but the best I can say is to check out Steve Hamburg's talk.  I believe it's primarily about cask beer but the batch brewed should be an eminently drinkable session beer.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: adruma on June 20, 2010, 11:52:22 PM
After many years of my asking clubs to have at least one beer of session strength (I recognize that we're trying to show off our biggest and baddest beers), the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild (AABG) has decided to present a session beer themed club night.  So please stop by our British Pub at club night and take a break from the liver-busting (albeit tasty) beers and relax.  I think we have about a dozen tasty but low alcohol beers.

One beer that we are presenting is my "April 7, 1933," a 3.2% abw (4.0% abv) Classic American Pilsner.

Here is my "point-of-sale" description"

"In March, 1933, just after FDR and the new congress took office, Congress passed the Cullen-Harrison Act, amending the Volstead Act, and raising the definition of "intoxicating liquor" under the 18th Amendment from 0.5% abw to 3.2% abw (4.0% abv).  The act went into effect on April 7, 1933; breweries shipped at midnight and taverns opened at that hour.  After 13 years, thirsty Americans at last could have a beer.

"This is that beer."
I really enjoyed your club's booth. It was a very nice break in the middle of a lot of big beers on club night. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try all of them at your booth, but the ones I sampled were great!
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: jeffy on June 21, 2010, 11:52:46 AM
It was quite nice this year to have more session beers.  When you're drinking for three or four solid days (way past my normal bed-time) Imperial IPA's just don't go down easy.  Jeff's session CAP was quite nice and a great number of cask milds seemed to be available.  I think the overall quality of the homebrews this year was exceptional.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 21, 2010, 01:31:14 PM
Jeff's CAP was very good and Iiked it a lot. I actually stayed away from many of the strong beers at club night in favor of the lighter ones.

Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 21, 2010, 02:00:56 PM
The amount of session beers that clubs brought this year was up in general at club night.  Most clubs looked to have at least one, in my unscientific survey. 

Jeff Renner's 3.2 CAP was the first to blow at our booth.  The 3 gallon keg of Mild on a hand pump was second.  My keg of a 4% Saison was pretty light.  It can be stated that there is a place for session beers at club night.

Kai had a bottle of doppelbock that was fantastic.  My wife usually doen't drink those, but she said "Wow!".  Good job on that beer Kai.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 21, 2010, 02:09:33 PM
Jeff's Cap was very good and the session beers by the club was a nice change and the ones I tried were very good. My highlight was Fred's 17.4 ABV Imperial barley wine. Thanks to Fred for sharing a bit with me seeing that he had very little and he hardly knew me.

Kai, thank you for sharing your samples it was interesting to taste the same beers with different techniques. It was amazing that we all guessed correctly on each sample. ;)  Oh and that Doppelbock yum!
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 21, 2010, 04:40:28 PM
Kai had a bottle of doppelbock that was fantastic.  My wife usually doen't drink those, but she said "Wow!".  Good job on that beer Kai.


Absolutely.  That beer had what we think of as the elusive "German character" that so many of us just can't achieve.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 21, 2010, 04:42:12 PM
Kai had a bottle of doppelbock that was fantastic.  My wife usually doen't drink those, but she said "Wow!".  Good job on that beer Kai.


Absolutely.  That beer had what we think of as the elusive "German character" that so many of us just can't achieve.

Is Kai going to hold out on us. I have been trying to pinpoint and target that character. Let's ask him for the recipe.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 21, 2010, 04:44:07 PM
Is Kai going to hold out on us. I have been trying to pinpoint and target that character. Let's ask him for the recipe.

To tell you the truth, I don't think it was in the recipe.  I'm kinda hazy on that night (imagine that!), but IIRC he said it was an older beer.  So, it's either by chance or technique!  Boulder, do you recall?
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 21, 2010, 05:08:00 PM
I don't recall Kai mentioning the age, but I bet the recipe is at his website.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 21, 2010, 05:14:16 PM
I don't recall Kai mentioning the age, but I bet the recipe is at his website.

hey boulder...Did your beer medal at the finals?
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: matt on June 21, 2010, 05:24:40 PM
After many years of my asking clubs to have at least one beer of session strength (I recognize that we're trying to show off our biggest and baddest beers), the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild (AABG) has decided to present a session beer themed club night.  So please stop by our British Pub at club night and take a break from the liver-busting (albeit tasty) beers and relax.  I think we have about a dozen tasty but low alcohol beers.

One beer that we are presenting is my "April 7, 1933," a 3.2% abw (4.0% abv) Classic American Pilsner.

Here is my "point-of-sale" description"

"In March, 1933, just after FDR and the new congress took office, Congress passed the Cullen-Harrison Act, amending the Volstead Act, and raising the definition of "intoxicating liquor" under the 18th Amendment from 0.5% abw to 3.2% abw (4.0% abv).  The act went into effect on April 7, 1933; breweries shipped at midnight and taverns opened at that hour.  After 13 years, thirsty Americans at last could have a beer.

"This is that beer."

Great beers at your pub! I liked the mild on cask. Thanks for showing me how to use the hand pump/engine.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 21, 2010, 05:43:42 PM
I don't recall Kai mentioning the age, but I bet the recipe is at his website.

hey boulder...Did your beer medal at the finals?

Nope. I was ready, though. I had my LUSH shirt on.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 21, 2010, 05:59:13 PM
Kai had a bottle of doppelbock that was fantastic.  My wife usually doen't drink those, but she said "Wow!".  Good job on that beer Kai.

Thanks. This recipe, when I say recipe I mean process and actual composition of ingredients, is one where I feel I achieved my objective for all my (German) beers: “When placed in a flight of the best German beers of that style (Doppelbock in this case) it doesn’t stand out as being different ”. Though I think I have to lower the sweetness next time I brew this.

I never brew a Doppelbock w/o decoction but I don’t think that the decoction causes this flavor. My Schwarzbiers can develop similar flavors with age and they aren’t generally brewed with a decoction. But to be save you would have to use a decoction.

Key is the aging process after the lagering. From the :

 (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Imperator recipe)
Quote
After lagering rack the beer to a serving keg or bottle and age at cellar temperatures ( 10 C / 50 F) for another 2-3 months. During that time most of the dark fruit notes will be formed by reactions between the alcohols (especially the higher alcohols) and acids in the beer. Some oxidation processes contribute to that as well. Since it is a chemical process, it works better at higher temperatures. Hence the suggestion to lager only for 2-3 months and then take it off the yeast completely and age for another 2-3 months. When I brewed this beer last, I happened to bottle some of it from the lagering keg. These bottles were stored at 10C (50F) and developed the dark fruit notes quicker than the beer that was still kept at lagering temps. Lagering should still be done in order to precipitate haze and yeast.

Babalu recently tried this and thanked me for the tip. The other important thing is to start out with a clean ferment that doesn’t leave too much high alcohols or residual sweetness. I believe a good grist uses 10-20% Pils malt as enzymatic boost, 3-5% specialty malts and the rest being a dark Munich malt. I have used Weyermann Munich II and Best Dark Munich with success. It’s the mix of specialty malts that I generally play with when changing the recipe. They are a mix of crystal and roasted malts. 1-2% of carafa special works well as part of the specialty malts if you want to get some hint of roast like you get in Ayinger’s Celebrator. That beer is a bit sweet for my taste but has a fantastic malt profile.

Fred and I talked about aging beers and he believes being sloppy and allow some more than usual O2 pick-up during transfer/bottling helps big beers. I think he is onto something with this. I too think that some of the desirable flavors and aromas in big dark beers are staling compounds that come from oxidations.

Kai
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 21, 2010, 06:20:25 PM
Fred and I talked about aging beers and he believes being sloppy and allow some more than usual O2 pick-up during transfer/bottling helps big beers. I think he is onto something with this. I too think that some of the desirable flavors and aromas in big dark beers are staling compounds that come from oxidations.

Kai


Sounds like you guys may be on to something here.

Similiar to the aging of wine, where the oxidation of the wine is the mechanism that allows for the complexity of the wine.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 21, 2010, 06:38:29 PM
I don't recall Kai mentioning the age, but I bet the recipe is at his website.

hey boulder...Did your beer medal at the finals?

Nope. I was ready, though. I had my LUSH shirt on.

Well unfortunately I wasn't there, but I did win the Silver Medal for my English Pale Ale. I did watch the live podcast as Janis called my name. I was so excited I could barely sleep all night.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 21, 2010, 07:01:11 PM
Congratulations, that is great accomplishment!  ;D
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bluesman on June 21, 2010, 07:48:29 PM
Congratulations, that is great accomplishment!  ;D

Thanks alot!  8)
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bonjour on June 22, 2010, 03:21:02 AM
Jeff's Cap was very good and the session beers by the club was a nice change and the ones I tried were very good. My highlight was Fred's 17.4 ABV Imperial barley wine. Thanks to Fred for sharing a bit with me seeing that he had very little and he hardly knew me.

Kai, thank you for sharing your samples it was interesting to taste the same beers with different techniques. It was amazing that we all guessed correctly on each sample. ;)  Oh and that Doppelbock yum!
I'm glad that you appreciated this.

Fred
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: bonjour on June 22, 2010, 03:34:44 AM
Fred and I talked about aging beers and he believes being sloppy and allow some more than usual O2 pick-up during transfer/bottling helps big beers. I think he is onto something with this. I too think that some of the desirable flavors and aromas in big dark beers are staling compounds that come from oxidations.

Kai


Sounds like you guys may be on to something here.

Similiar to the aging of wine, where the oxidation of the wine is the mechanism that allows for the complexity of the wine.
I will point out that this is not the common or accepted belief.
I used to use an auto-siphon which had a very small air leak and my big beers were very good.  I shifted to a SS siphon to fix the air leak because the good brewers that I knew said (rightly so) that my beers would be oxidized and as such degraded.  The "quality" of my big beers dramatically decreased.  I started to add a slight amount of Oxygen (via aeration) back in, not much, very little, and my big beers regained their complexity. 

I absolutely do NOT recommend this with any session beers (note: session beers are under 1.100 OG).

Yes, the 17.4 abv BW was brewed with this process.

Fred
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: pjj2ba on June 22, 2010, 03:52:30 AM
To tell you the truth, I don't think it was in the recipe.  I'm kinda hazy on that night (imagine that!), but IIRC he said it was an older beer.  So, it's either by chance or technique!  Boulder, do you recall?

This is something I think about all the time - Recipe versus process.  It seems to me that many people are focused on the recipe.  To be sure, this plays an important part, but people tend to ignore the process, which I think is equally, if not more important.

By analogy, I'm a tuba player, and a couple of years ago I had an antique tuba that  sometimes I could make it sound good, other times it was a struggle.  I had a lesson with a well known professional, and he made that horn sing.  Same horn, different "procedure".  One could have an award winning recipe and some folks will get a similar result using it, other won't.  These days I'm thinking the process is more important than the recipe, maybe 60/40.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: MDixon on June 22, 2010, 11:33:18 AM
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: hopfenundmalz on June 22, 2010, 12:02:55 PM
To tell you the truth, I don't think it was in the recipe.  I'm kinda hazy on that night (imagine that!), but IIRC he said it was an older beer.  So, it's either by chance or technique!  Boulder, do you recall?
This is something I think about all the time - Recipe versus process.  It seems to me that many people are focused on the recipe.  To be sure, this plays an important part, but people tend to ignore the process, which I think is equally, if not more important.

You will get different results for the same recipe brewed on a different system with different processes.  My opinion is that the most important part is the brewer and the knowledge applied and care he/she takes in the brewing.

This can be backed up with the results of our clubs "Brewola".  We first did the SS Minow Mild Big Brew recipe from a previous Big Brew.  To remove the variability of ingredients from the process, our "Brewgyver" Mike O'Brien sourced ingredients for the whole activity and assembled kits with the help of other club members.  Participating members paid for their kit and then went home and brewed the beer.  Beers were judged in Chris Frey's basement on a Saturday.  Results were all over the place, scores were from the 20s to the 40s.

This is an educational activity for a club.  You can also submit the best beer to the AHA Club Only Competition.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Beertracker on June 25, 2010, 03:21:39 AM
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.

I also found the presentation on "plastic yeast" very informative. Now it's time for practical application!  ;)

BTW... I looked around after the BJCP members meeting to introduce myself, but alas you were gone. Many thanks for all that you do for our organization! 
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 25, 2010, 03:53:33 PM
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.

I personally believe that this has very little relevance to homebrewing since the scale of fermenters we use are so much smaller.
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Beertracker on June 25, 2010, 04:33:18 PM
I personally believe that this has very little relevance to homebrewing since the scale of fermenters we use are so much smaller.

I found a s/s coolship-style pan at a restaraunt auction that will hold 8-10 USG of wort at a depth of only 8-10 inches. I'm planning on adding legs & a racking arm with tri-clover config and using it as a primary open fermentor for my wheats & common-type beers. I'll report back later this fall/winter when the project is finished and I've brewed a batch or three in it.  ??? 
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 25, 2010, 07:35:26 PM
During the talk Stan suggested to those who ferment in buckets to use 2 for fermenting a 5 gallon batch. My guess is to get closer to a one to one ratio (height to width). It was also noted you could get ester production with air movement over your open fermenter. Anyone care to try that?
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: Kaiser on June 25, 2010, 07:57:18 PM
Anyone care to try that?

I'd try that. But first I have to finish my open fermentation chest. The idea is to put a piece of clear plastic over my fermentation chest and be able to look inside w/o allowing stuff to fall in. I'll then add a fan to the inside to more air and CO2 around. There is a drain hole in the bottom that should allow for the CO2 to drain. Air may come in from the sides.

But I have to wait until I brew something British, a lager may not be the best test vehicle. Weissbier yeast is a ridiculously active climber and I don't want to ferment this open again:

(http://braukaiser.com/images/misc_forum/Batch_103_blow_off.JPG)

This was WY3068 at 64F. I could not keep up skimming the Kraeusen. Even though there was about 30% headroom in that bucket. This is why I thought the Weissbier fermentation in the Brewing TV episode about open fermentation was tame.

Kai
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: denny on June 25, 2010, 07:58:17 PM
During the talk Stan suggested to those who ferment in buckets to use 2 for fermenting a 5 gallon batch. My guess is to get closer to a one to one ratio (height to width). It was also noted you could get ester production with air movement over your open fermenter. Anyone care to try that?

IIRC, Kai calculated that the difference in pressure would be like moving your fermenter from the 1st floor to the 2nd floor of your house.  Does anybody worry about that?
Title: Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
Post by: boulderbrewer on June 25, 2010, 08:17:24 PM
I'm good then, I ferment in the basement. ;)

Great idea about open fermenting in a chest freezer. The only question would be the air quality.