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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: neddles on January 06, 2016, 02:47:47 AM

Title: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: neddles on January 06, 2016, 02:47:47 AM
Anyone have any experiences with these strains they would like to share. 3 English strains. I have used WY1026 one time and it made terrific EIPA for me.

Wyeast 1026-PC British Cask Ale™
 
Beer Styles: Blonde Ale, English IPA, English Pale Ale, ESB, Southern English Brown Ale, English Bitter
Profile: Wyeast 1026-PC is a great yeast choice for any cask conditioned British ale style, and especially well-suited for hoppy bitters, IPAs and Australian ales. A good attenuator that clears readily. Low to moderate ester production in fermentation, letting malt and hops come through, finishes crisp and slightly tart.
 
Alc. Tolerance          9% ABV
Flocculation              medium-high
Attenuation               74-77%
Temp. Range             63-72°F (17-22°C)
 
Wyeast 1768-PC English Special Bitter™
 
Beer Styles: Blonde Ale, English IPA, ESB, Oatmeal Stout, Southern English Brown, English Bitter, Sweet Stout, Pale Ale
Profile: A great yeast for malt-predominate ales. Produces light fruit and ethanol aromas along with soft, nutty flavors. Exhibits a mild malt profile with a neutral finish. Bright beers are easily achieved without any filtration. It is similar to our 1968 London ESB Ale but slightly less flocculent.
 
Alc. Tolerance          9% ABV
Flocculation              high
Attenuation               68-72%
Temp. Range             64-72°F (18-22°C)
 
Wyeast 1882-PC Thames Valley Ale II™
 
Beer Styles: Ordinary and Special Bitters, ESB, Northern English Brown, Robust Porter, Dry Stout, Foreign Extra Stout, English Pale Ale and IPA 
Profile: 1882-PC produces crisp, dry English ales with a rich malt profile and moderate stone fruit esters. This attenuative strain is also highly flocculent, resulting in bright beers not requiring filtration. A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.
 
Alc. Tolerance          10% ABV
Flocculation              high
Attenuation               72-78%
Temp. Range             60-70°F (15-21°C)
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on January 06, 2016, 10:16:30 AM
No experience, but 1768 has my name all over it as soon as MoreBeer gets it in stock. I've heard Mark talk about the lollipop ester that this yeast produces enough times to want to try it out for myself.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: coolman26 on January 07, 2016, 03:21:03 AM
No experience, but 1768 has my name all over it as soon as MoreBeer gets it in stock. I've heard Mark talk about the lollipop ester that this yeast produces enough times to want to try it out for myself.

What style are you thinking?
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on January 07, 2016, 03:28:23 PM
No experience, but 1768 has my name all over it as soon as MoreBeer gets it in stock. I've heard Mark talk about the lollipop ester that this yeast produces enough times to want to try it out for myself.

What style are you thinking?
A simple English Pale Ale - something along the lines of 85% MO, 10% sugar, 5% torrified wheat. Fuggles early and EKG's late.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 08, 2016, 12:55:47 AM
A simple English Pale Ale - something along the lines of 85% MO, 10% sugar, 5% torrified wheat. Fuggles early and EKG's late.

Copycat! ;D

I picked up my pouch a few days ago and am planning a premium-strength bitter (1.048) very similar to yours:
82% ESBritish Malt (Gambrinus)
9% Homemade Invert #2
4.5% Wheat Malt
4.5% Double-roast Crystal (120L) (Simpsons)
Fuggles bitter
EKG at 15 and 5
1768
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on January 08, 2016, 04:44:41 PM
A simple English Pale Ale - something along the lines of 85% MO, 10% sugar, 5% torrified wheat. Fuggles early and EKG's late.

Copycat! ;D

I picked up my pouch a few days ago and am planning a premium-strength bitter (1.048) very similar to yours:
82% ESBritish Malt (Gambrinus)
9% Homemade Invert #2
4.5% Wheat Malt
4.5% Double-roast Crystal (120L) (Simpsons)
Fuggles bitter
EKG at 15 and 5
1768
The invert reminds me that I have some Lyle's Golden that I need to use up. Guess I'll be even more of a copycat ;)

Curious to hear what you think about the Double Roast Crystal.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on January 08, 2016, 05:47:42 PM
No experience, but 1768 has my name all over it as soon as MoreBeer gets it in stock. I've heard Mark talk about the lollipop ester that this yeast produces enough times to want to try it out for myself.

I'm want to try that strain as well.  S.C. stated it performed best when pitched at a relatively low rate (think he said 3B cells per liter for a normal gravity ale).  It would be make for an interesting split batch experiment.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on January 08, 2016, 06:41:12 PM
No experience, but 1768 has my name all over it as soon as MoreBeer gets it in stock. I've heard Mark talk about the lollipop ester that this yeast produces enough times to want to try it out for myself.
I'm want to try that strain as well.  S.C. stated it performed best when pitched at a relatively low rate (think he said 3B cells per liter for a normal gravity ale).  It would be make for an interesting split batch experiment.
Indeed. I have a smack pack of 1469 to use up - that would make an interesting side-by-side.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 08, 2016, 07:10:08 PM
The invert reminds me that I have some Lyle's Golden that I need to use up. Guess I'll be even more of a copycat ;)

Curious to hear what you think about the Double Roast Crystal.

I've used the double roast in an ESB about two months ago (only 10oz/5gal). It has less of a roasted edge to it than most British 120L crystals. I guess I would say it's more like a US 120L crystal but still has a little bit of dark/dry fruit quality. Eaten in it's dry form, it retains a lot of the sugary sweetness that's often found in US C60 and often lacking in darker kilned crystals. Overall, I like it as an alternative dark crystal malt, and I wouldn't say there's anything "profound" about it - just a alternative dark crystal. This will be my second time using it and I'm scaling back a bit to 6oz (I felt like the 10oz overshadowed the UK hops I used in the ESB).

I'm eager to try to the 1768. I remember passing it up a couple years back when it was at my LHBS and this time I made sure to put in my special order for it ;). I'm expecting something significant from it but based on it's description I might be blowing it up too much in my head.

@narcout: 3B cells per liter is like half a pouch per 5 gallons. I don't think I can bring myself to pitch that low. I'm certainly willing to gamble on pitching rates but that pushes even my lower threshold :D. I might look at a simple 100B for the 5gallons though if your memory is correct about SC's recommendation. Do you happen to remember where he put that it of information?
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 08, 2016, 07:21:09 PM
Some SC info on 1768 (and others):
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24744.msg316283#msg316283
Quote
snip: With that said, if you want to use a beautiful strain with a lot of British character that is acceptable to the American palate, push Wyeast to release 1768 English Special Bitter or White Labs to release WLP033 Klassic Ale.  Those offerings are the Young's Ram Brewery culture. It has a unique, but pleasant ester profile that screams, "I am British."   If either of these cultures does get released, for heaven's sake, do not strangle the fermentation by starting it at 15C or 16C (59 to 61F), let it breath.


By the way, like Wyeast 1450 (BrewTek CL-50), we can thank Maribeth Raines for Wyeast 1968/White Labs WLP002 and Wyeast 1768/White Labs WLP033.  These cultures were first introduced to the home brewing community as BrewTek CL-160 (Fullers) and BrewTek CL-170 (Youngs).

BrewTek CL-160 British Draft Ale
    One of our (Brewtek's) favorite Ale yeasts, gives a full bodied, well rounded flavor with a touch of diacetyl. This yeast has a way of emphasizing malt character like no other yeast we've used. Highly recommended for Porters and Bitters.

BrewTek CL-170 Classic British Ale
    Like CL-160, produces a beautiful draft bitter or Porter. This yeast leaves a complex ale with very British tones and fruit like esters, it also produces a classic Scottish Heavy and plays well in high gravity worts.

Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on January 08, 2016, 07:37:45 PM
Do you happen to remember where he put that it of information?

Last paragraph of reply #30 in the following thread:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311561#msg311561
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on January 08, 2016, 07:41:15 PM
Sounds like I may have to repitch into a barleywine of some sorts based on the Brewtek description. Not sure how I'm going to pitch as small as Mark suggested, especially into a 3 gallon batch, but I'll probably make a small starter and only pitch a measured part at high krausen.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 08, 2016, 09:08:09 PM
Do you happen to remember where he put that it of information?

Last paragraph of reply #30 in the following thread:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311561#msg311561

SOLD! I'll take the risk, and I may even reconsider my overall recipe. Thank you for digging that post back up narcout. Very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on January 08, 2016, 11:49:33 PM
I am looking at the Thames Valley II strain.  Anyone brewed with that before?
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 09, 2016, 05:30:22 PM
Special (and hopefully Best) Bitter is scheduled for tomorrow - YAY!  ;D

Switched up the recipe and pitching based directly on SC's recommend that narcout linked to. It'll work out this way:
Bru'N Profile: Amber Dry, 5.4 Mash pH, 5.5 Sparge pH
1.048 OG / ~37 IBU tinseth / ~8.5 SRM
91% ESB Malt
3% Double-roast crystal
6% Homemade Invert #2
Fuggles bittering (2/3 ibus)
EKG 15min/2min (1/3 ibus)
...and a single, lowly drop of 1768 yeast  :o (~60B cells)

I brewed a very similar recipe at the end of August last year with freshly dried, homegrown Golding hops. That recipe was double the invert, switch up the crystal for wheat, and 1187 instead of 1768. It was probably the best British-style beer I've brewed to date (and I attributed some of that to the freshly dried Golding hops, which I'm out of). Faults were too light in color and just a smidge more bittering was needed. I'm hoping this one blows that one away.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on January 10, 2016, 09:18:48 PM
Special (and hopefully Best) Bitter is scheduled for tomorrow - YAY!  ;D

Switched up the recipe and pitching based directly on SC's recommend that narcout linked to. It'll work out this way:
Bru'N Profile: Amber Dry, 5.4 Mash pH, 5.5 Sparge pH
1.048 OG / ~37 IBU tinseth / ~8.5 SRM
91% ESB Malt
3% Double-roast crystal
6% Homemade Invert #2
Fuggles bittering (2/3 ibus)
EKG 15min/2min (1/3 ibus)
...and a single, lowly drop of 1768 yeast  :o (~60B cells)

I brewed a very similar recipe at the end of August last year with freshly dried, homegrown Golding hops. That recipe was double the invert, switch up the crystal for wheat, and 1187 instead of 1768. It was probably the best British-style beer I've brewed to date (and I attributed some of that to the freshly dried Golding hops, which I'm out of). Faults were too light in color and just a smidge more bittering was needed. I'm hoping this one blows that one away.

Looks good. Keep us posted on how fermentation goes with this one. Curious to see how close to 1968 it is.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 11, 2016, 02:34:36 AM
Looks good. Keep us posted on how fermentation goes with this one. Curious to see how close to 1968 it is.

Will do. I brewed it up this morning and plan on fermenting at 67-68F for the first 48 hours and then bringing it up to 71-72F to finish up the few remaining days. Crash cool for 4-5 days, keg, fine, carb, serve. I'm hoping for a relatively quick turnaround on this one (two weeks until serving). Cheers!
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 20, 2016, 02:53:46 PM
It's been fined and is carbing now. The sample pulled from the fermenter was a tad underwhelming based on my "hopes and aspirations". The beer itself (a special bitter) tastes quite good and falls in line with what I normally produce; I was just hoping for a strong British punch from the yeast (fruit, lollipop, and/or some British yeast character I'd never experienced). The characterizations described by wyeast are pretty accurate (light fruit esters, very clean), no surprise there. The beer was heavily underpitched (~60B cells into 5.25G @ 1.050); had a decent lag phase of ~15 hours; and fermented warm (68-72F). I tried my best to get the most I could from the yeast and it still is pretty darn clean. As for it's comparison to 1968, it's not as estery/fruity, cleaner ferment. We'll see how it shapes up with some carbonation and a few more days of age.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Phil_M on January 20, 2016, 03:00:17 PM
I know Mark was always saying that some yeast come into their own only after being repitched, it'd be interesting to see if doing so makes it "wake up" compared to the 1968.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Footballandhops on January 20, 2016, 03:03:48 PM
Well I just tapped my ESB fermented with wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire...it is bad ass, dry hopping it in keg with EKG right now
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 20, 2016, 03:04:35 PM
Well I just tapped my ESB fermented with wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire...it is bad ass, dry hopping it in keg with EKG right now


Yeah, I love that strain. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Footballandhops on January 20, 2016, 04:22:15 PM

Well I just tapped my ESB fermented with wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire...it is bad ass, dry hopping it in keg with EKG right now


Yeah, I love that strain. Good stuff.

Will definitely be my go to ESB strain

I can't wait till 5 o'clock today to grab a pint
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 20, 2016, 04:38:31 PM
I know Mark was always saying that some yeast come into their own only after being repitched, it'd be interesting to see if doing so makes it "wake up" compared to the 1968.

Hopefully that's the case because it's getting repitched today into an amber ale :D
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on January 20, 2016, 05:41:08 PM
The beer was heavily underpitched (~60B cells into 5.25G @ 1.050); had a decent lag phase of ~15 hours; and fermented warm (68-72F).

Any issues with attenuation? 
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on January 20, 2016, 11:35:45 PM
The beer was heavily underpitched (~60B cells into 5.25G @ 1.050); had a decent lag phase of ~15 hours; and fermented warm (68-72F).

Any issues with attenuation?

No issues with attenuation that surprises me, and certainly not on the underattenuation side. It finished at 1.011 for ~77%AA with a 155F SI mash, but that AA is pushed up several percent due to the 8oz invert I used in the recipe. I was aiming for 1.012 so 11 is good with me.

The sample tasted good; it's an easy drinker for sure. I was just hoping for something.... magical :D

I may need to get myself in on the Klassic Ale vault buy now just to have a basis for comparison of two (supposedly) similar strains.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on February 02, 2016, 06:31:08 PM
Updated 3/1/16:

Notes on Wyeast 1768-PC:

Best Bitter. 1st generation. Keg Notes: Nothing characteristic enough to write home about. The malt character is fairly noticeable and comes across as bready malt with a splash of biscuit. The hops are not emphasized but are still present as a secondary character. The finish is dry and clean. It's a good beer but the yeast didn't get where I was hoping it would. Pitched scary-low at ~60B cells for 5.25 gallons of 1.050 OG wort. Fermented warm (see my post below). High attenuation at 77% with 155F mash temp for 60min; used 8 oz invert #2.

Amber Ale. 2nd generation. Racking sample notes. Again, yeast character is minor and fairly clean. Caramel malts really shine through in the aroma, which they should based on percentage used (17%). Centennial and Cascade hop aroma is present and noticeable, but not overwhelming (no dry hops used). The finish is dry and bitter (I expected plenty bitter but not dry; 0.9 bu/gu). Pitched regular ~200ml thick yeastcake for 5.25G of 1.064 OG wort (assumed 200-300B cells).  Fermented upper-60s for bulk of fermentation (see post below). Very high attenuation at 83% (thus the dry finish) with mash at 152F for 60min with 17% crystal/cara malts and no simple sugars. UPDATE: Keg Notes: After some fining, clearing, and carbonation, the bitterness and dryness subsided a bit which helped it balance out more (it's still a bitter beer, as intended). There is also a light amount of sweetness which adds a nice touch to the overall character of the beer. Very "american" beer even though it's a british yeast.

Amber/Scottish Ale: Odell 90 Shilling-like beer. Racking sample notes: Yeast character is fairly well hidden with maybe just a hint of fruitiness that comes through, but pretty neutral overall. The malt character of this beer is quite aromatic. The perle late addition hops are very background but not too many were used so it's to be expected. Nice balanced finish that leans just on the side of malty. Pitched ~200ml thick 2nd generation yeastcake (fairly heavy pitch). Fermented my standard ale profile of 64 for 3days, 66 for 3days, and then let it finish another 4 days at lower 60s. Again, high attenuation (78%) with a 155F mash for 60min and that's with 13% crystal/cara and 1% roast. I was aiming for a fairly high finish gravity of 1.019 but ended up at 1.013 - no matter because it tastes great where it landed.

Blonde Ale: Racking sample notes: Yeast character is fairly well hidden with maybe just a hint of fruitiness that comes through, but pretty neutral overall. Crystal hop late addition hops are apparent for a low hopped beer (2.3oz for 5 gallons total). Balanced finish that has a slight sweetness retained from the malt but the hops are most prominent. I was testing a small batch US 2row base malt from Idaho and hoping to find a style where the malt character could be present.  While I think this beer serves that purpose, the malt character retained is so subtle I cannot pick much out beyond what I might expect from the specialty malts used (see below).  Pitched ~200ml thick 3nd generation yeastcake (fairly heavy pitch). Fermented my standard ale profile of 64 for 3days, 66 for 3days, and then let it finish another 4 days at lower 60s. Finally achieved reasonable attenuation (73.5%) with a 156F mash for 40min (94% base, 6% cara20 and honey malt). I was aiming for a moderately high finish gravity of 1.012ish and ended up at 1.013. It took a hot mash for a short time to finally get this yeast into the lower 70s for attenuation.

So far... It's a fine (clean) yeast that seems to help emphasize malt character, but the yeast esters themselves are not too characterful. I can't imagine it going from clean to un-americanly British over a couple generations, but we'll see if it finds some traction on it's third generation (I'm not holding my breath though :D). I guess Wyeast's description of this strain is fairly accurate in terms of character (surprise, huh? :D).  191 more orders until Klassic Ale ships....sigh.

3/1/16: Still consider this an excellent alternative for brewing ester-neutral beers; it seems to be a great fit for american style ales (kind of like 1272).  It retains some malt and also hops; it a high attenuator; mostly neutral with subtle fruity hints; poor flocculator.  Overall a good yeast but not for British-style beers, IMHO. I'll post my keg notes on the amber/scottish and blonde ales once they get served.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 02, 2016, 08:58:57 PM
Cool.  Thanks for posting.

I've got two packs of 1768 waiting to go.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: neddles on February 06, 2016, 01:06:06 PM
Another update on 1768:

Best Bitter. 1st generation. Nothing characteristic enough to write home about. The malt character is fairly noticeable and comes across as bready malt with a splash of biscuit. The hops are not emphasized but are still present as a secondary character. The finish is dry and clean. It's a good beer but the yeast didn't get where I was hoping it would. Pitched scary-low at ~60B cells for 5.25 gallons of 1.050 OG wort. High attenuation at 77% with 155F mash temp for 60min; used 8 oz invert #2.

Amber Ale. 2nd generation. Racking sample notes. Again, yeast character is minor and fairly clean. Caramel malts really shine through in the aroma, which they should based on percentage used (17%). Centennial and Cascade hop aroma is present and noticeable, but not overwhelming (no dry hops used). The finish is dry and bitter (I expected plenty bitter but not dry; 0.9 bu/gu). Pitched regular ~200ml thick yeastcake for 5.25G of 1.064 OG wort (assumed 200-300B cells).  Very high attenuation at 83% (thus the dry finish) with mash at 152F for 60min with 17% crystal/cara malts and no simple sugars.

I'll be pitching again for 3rd generation in about a week. This time I'm mashing hot (156F) for shorter time (40min) and hoping for ~75% attenuation. It'll be an american blonde with US noble-like hops so not much to get in the way of the yeast, and hopefully the subtle malt character will be retained.

So far... It's a fine (clean) yeast that seems to help emphasize malt character, but the yeast esters themselves are not too characterful. I can't imagine it going from clean to un-americanly British over a couple generations, but we'll see if it finds some traction on it's third generation (I'm not holding my breath though :D). I guess Wyeast's description of this strain is fairly accurate in terms of character (surprise, huh? :D).  191 more orders until Klassic Ale ships....sigh.

Edit: I should mention that I have another amber/scottish ale hybrid beer (Odell 90 Shilling-like beer) that used this yeast as well (2nd gen pitch). It has 13% crystal and 1% chocolate with continental hop character, but I mashed a bit higher at 155F, so we'll see how it pans out in terms of FG. I'll post sample notes as well as tasting notes when the time comes.
Do you know what your fermentation temperature was for these batches.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on February 06, 2016, 04:45:51 PM
Do you know what your fermentation temperature was for these batches.

Yeah I do (I forgot to put that in the descriptions above):

Best Bitter: Pitched 66F and raised to 70F with fermwrap within few hours, fermented 70-72F for 7 days.
Amber Ale: Pitch 64F and let it freerise for 4 days (it got up to 69F), then 72F to finish up
Amber Scottish: 64F for 3 days, then ~62F for 4 days

Blonde ale got delayed until this coming week
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on February 06, 2016, 05:53:08 PM
Do you know what your fermentation temperature was for these batches.

Yeah I do (I forgot to put that in the descriptions above):

Best Bitter: Pitched 66F and raised to 70F with fermwrap within few hours, fermented 70-72F for 7 days.


You would think you would be able to coax some pretty good character out of the yeast with that fermentation schedule.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on February 06, 2016, 07:01:32 PM
Do you know what your fermentation temperature was for these batches.

Yeah I do (I forgot to put that in the descriptions above):

Best Bitter: Pitched 66F and raised to 70F with fermwrap within few hours, fermented 70-72F for 7 days.


You would think you would be able to coax some pretty good character out of the yeast with that fermentation schedule.

Coupled with the (scary) low pitching rate, that's what I was aiming for. So far, I just have to surmise that this strain doesn't have big British yeast ester production. It's certainly not bad or off-putting in any way, just more neutral and clean than I had hoped for. The Best Bitter is actually quite tasty - just not as pronounced in the yeast department as I wanted.  I think it is a great strain for those that want to keep the yeast character minimized but still present (and, at least so far, want high attenuation). Not all that different from WLP013 minus the 'oakey ester' they mention (granted, I can't say I've ever experienced the oakey ester in any of the beers I've brewed with it).
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on February 06, 2016, 10:49:17 PM
I'm planning on trying the 1768 next weekend in a 100% Golden Promise ale, though I'm still deciding on pitch rate and fermentation temp.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on February 06, 2016, 10:59:53 PM
Will be brewing an ESB with the Thames Valley II next week.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: erockrph on February 07, 2016, 05:54:55 AM
Sounds like I'm not missing much so far. I can only get White Labs locally, so I have to order Wyeast online. I only like to order liquid yeast from MoreBeer, since they are the closest to me, but still doesn't have the winter seasonals yet.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on February 09, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Cool.  Thanks for posting.

I've got two packs of 1768 waiting to go.
I'll be interested in your impressions of this yeast when you have a chance to use it. The obvious beers to try to brew with it is something British, particularly a bitter, and you should brew a nice British beer to see if it gives what you're after. HOWEVER, make sure to collect some slurry/yeastcake and follow up with an american style beer (pale ale, amber ale, ipa, american brown, blonde even, etc) because I'm liking how my amber ales are coming out with this strain (haven't brewed my blonde yet). It's plenty neutral that it doesn't impress me as a british yeast strain and brings more to the beer than the usual standby (chico). It's all just opinion of course.

I'm planning on trying the 1768 next weekend in a 100% Golden Promise ale, though I'm still deciding on pitch rate and fermentation temp.
I'm also very interested in your impressions and process. Keep us posted.

Sounds like I'm not missing much so far. I can only get White Labs locally, so I have to order Wyeast online. I only like to order liquid yeast from MoreBeer, since they are the closest to me, but still doesn't have the winter seasonals yet.
As far as missing out on a hugely British yeast strain, you're definitely not missing out (IMO). So far I'm happy with the beers I'm producing with 1768, but I would not choose it for my estery british beers. I'm liking it in my american ales though; it seems to have more to it than the old fallback (chico) but not so much that you're thinking about it when drinking.

One characteristic that I've noticed in both beers I've had a chance to drink plenty of is that they both contain noticeable body. This is not too surprising in the amber ale that used a high percentage of crystal malts, but it WAS surprising in my best bitter that had a dash of crystal plus some invert that would lighten the body. I may be wrong but I suspect that this strain has a higher level of glycerol production than the average yeast, which enhances the mouthfeel of the beer a fair amount. Belle Saison and 3711 would be another notable yeast strain with increased glycerol production, thus the reason it can produce a 1.000 beer with big mouthfeel. All speculation of course.

Edit: Lastly, 1768 does not clear very well for me. It will eventually clear but sure takes it's time. Even gelatin has not worked very well. It may just be my process, ingredients, or some other factor.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Joe Sr. on February 09, 2016, 03:49:57 PM
Cool.  Thanks for posting.

I've got two packs of 1768 waiting to go.
I'll be interested in your impressions of this yeast when you have a chance to use it. The obvious beers to try to brew with it is something British, particularly a bitter, and you should brew a nice British beer to see if it gives what you're after. HOWEVER, make sure to collect some slurry/yeastcake and follow up with an american style beer (pale ale, amber ale, ipa, american brown, blonde even, etc) because I'm liking how my amber ales are coming out with this strain (haven't brewed my blonde yet). It's plenty neutral that it doesn't impress me as a british yeast strain and brings more to the beer than the usual standby (chico). It's all just opinion of course.

It may be a bit.  I've got two batches of bitter waiting to be bottled.  These were a test of S-04 at different temps. 
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on February 19, 2016, 12:13:40 PM
Made a 1.8qt starter for my ESB with WY 1882 Thames Valley II. Saved 500 mL for another day, and pitched the chilled decanted slurry into the wort around 1 pm yesterday. 

Man, this yeast took off like gangbusters. Active fermentation 4-5 hrs later with huge, foamy, high krausen middle of night and next morning. Fermenting around 67-68F and the wort is rockin inside the carboy. I have been brewing lagers lately, so this is definitely very active in comparison.  Lots of yeast flying around inside. Literally....

Will keep posted with the final results after kegging.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on March 01, 2016, 11:56:45 PM
Updated my notes on 1768 in the following post:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=25511.msg332750#msg332750

Summary: IMO, it's a great alternative yeast for brewing mostly neutral beers while still retaining the malt AND hops.  Not great for British-style beers. IMO.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 02, 2016, 07:07:25 PM
Summary: IMO, it's a great alternative yeast for brewing mostly neutral beers while still retaining the malt AND hops.  Not great for British-style beers. IMO.

Well, that's not really what I was hoping to hear.  I'm still planning on using it in my Golden Promise ale; it just got pushed because I fractured my foot and have been on crutches the past few weeks.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on March 02, 2016, 08:29:33 PM
Summary: IMO, it's a great alternative yeast for brewing mostly neutral beers while still retaining the malt AND hops.  Not great for British-style beers. IMO.

Well, that's not really what I was hoping to hear.  I'm still planning on using it in my Golden Promise ale; it just got pushed because I fractured my foot and have been on crutches the past few weeks.

Hopefully your experience with it is different than mine in regards to ester production. I was so hopeful beforehand and have just settled on the fact that it's a good yeast but not what I was looking for.

Hope your foot heals up quickly so you can get your next ale brewed :D
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on March 04, 2016, 08:04:40 PM
Made a 1.8qt starter for my ESB with WY 1882 Thames Valley II. Saved 500 mL for another day, and pitched the chilled decanted slurry into the wort around 1 pm yesterday. 

Man, this yeast took off like gangbusters. Active fermentation 4-5 hrs later with huge, foamy, high krausen middle of night and next morning. Fermenting around 67-68F and the wort is rockin inside the carboy. I have been brewing lagers lately, so this is definitely very active in comparison.  Lots of yeast flying around inside. Literally....

Will keep posted with the final results after kegging.

Kegged this one this afternoon.  Craziest fermentation I have observed in a long time. This yeast strain took a 1.056 ESB wort down to a 1.013 in under 24 hrs held at 68F. Krausen quickly dropped back into the beer after fermentation was done, and fearing an underattenuated batch, I rolled the carboy gently to rouse the yeast every few days.

The hydrometer sample was quite promising. This yeast strain let the malt shine through nicely while keeping the hops (50 IBU's) in balance. Slight fruity undertone, but not as potent as WY 1968. Drops super clear, very quickly. Can't wait to carb this one up and really give it a try.

Will repitch this into a cool fermented Irish Red (around 60-62F) to keep the esters in check. If all goes well with that, I am going to use it on a big daddy imperial stout.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: Ethan J on March 07, 2016, 01:41:02 PM
Made a 1.8qt starter for my ESB with WY 1882 Thames Valley II. Saved 500 mL for another day, and pitched the chilled decanted slurry into the wort around 1 pm yesterday. 

Man, this yeast took off like gangbusters. Active fermentation 4-5 hrs later with huge, foamy, high krausen middle of night and next morning. Fermenting around 67-68F and the wort is rockin inside the carboy. I have been brewing lagers lately, so this is definitely very active in comparison.  Lots of yeast flying around inside. Literally....

Will keep posted with the final results after kegging.

Kegged this one this afternoon.  Craziest fermentation I have observed in a long time. This yeast strain took a 1.056 ESB wort down to a 1.013 in under 24 hrs held at 68F. Krausen quickly dropped back into the beer after fermentation was done, and fearing an underattenuated batch, I rolled the carboy gently to rouse the yeast every few days.

The hydrometer sample was quite promising. This yeast strain let the malt shine through nicely while keeping the hops (50 IBU's) in balance. Slight fruity undertone, but not as potent as WY 1968. Drops super clear, very quickly. Can't wait to carb this one up and really give it a try.

Will repitch this into a cool fermented Irish Red (around 60-62F) to keep the esters in check. If all goes well with that, I am going to use it on a big daddy imperial stout.

This mirrors my experience with this yeast as well. Pitched into a 5 gallon batch of 1.044 Special Bitter, 35 IBUs, was at 1.012 the next day. The beer dropped bright in about 7-10 days. Kegging today, will report back.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: majorvices on March 07, 2016, 02:01:29 PM
I am looking at the Thames Valley II strain.  Anyone brewed with that before?

I am about to rack a beer that used it and repitch the yeast in another beer.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 18, 2016, 04:38:43 PM
I'm finally getting around to brewing with the 1768 tonight.  I have a smack pack from January 11, 2016.  So it's probably got what, 60-75 billion viable cells?

I'm trying to decide between pitching just the smack pack or making a small starter to pitch at high krausen. 

Standard ale pitching rate would be 180 billion cells for the beer I have planned, so if I pitch just the smack pack I'll be somewhere around 33-40% of that.

Maybe a low pitch rate with a warm fermentation will coax some good character out of it.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on March 18, 2016, 05:44:53 PM
I am looking at the Thames Valley II strain.  Anyone brewed with that before?

I am about to rack a beer that used it and repitch the yeast in another beer.

Been drinking my ESB for a good couple weeks now.  Love the flavor profile from this strain.  Nice balance of malt and hops come through with pretty complex fruity esters. Not as fruity as WY 1968 but just slightly under.  Brewing an irish red next with this strain and will ferment it at 60F and see what it brings to the table.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on March 18, 2016, 07:31:42 PM
I'm finally getting around to brewing with the 1768 tonight.  I have a smack pack from January 11, 2016.  So it's probably got what, 60-75 billion viable cells?

I'm trying to decide between pitching just the smack pack or making a small starter to pitch at high krausen. 

Standard ale pitching rate would be 180 billion cells for the beer I have planned, so if I pitch just the smack pack I'll be somewhere around 33-40% of that.

Maybe a low pitch rate with a warm fermentation will coax some good character out of it.

Using information from S cerevisiae in previous posts about pitching really low (~50-60 billion cells per 5 gallons of standard gravity wort); using british malts; fermenting on the warm side (68-72F); and, coupling that with the 'have you seen ester' blog author's comments at experimental brewing (http://www.experimentalbrew.com/comment/497#comment-497), you  might want to add in a warm pitch (73F) before letting it settle it into your fermentation temperature over 12 hours.

I intend to take another stab at a distinctly british bitter in a couple months and will try again to hit these marks in hopes of pulling something more out of the yeast than I've managed so far.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 18, 2016, 09:48:44 PM
I was thinking I would pitch at 69-70 and let it ride there for a day or two before letting it rise to 72. 
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on March 18, 2016, 09:52:51 PM
Be aware that under-pitching at those higher temps could lead to increased diacetyl production.  Just be sure to keep that yeast active enough to clean up after themselves if it drops bright like other english strains.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 19, 2016, 06:22:15 PM
I hit my target gravity of 1.046 on the nose and just oxygenated and pitched a single smack pack (I cannot remember the lat time I did that) at 69 degrees. 
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on March 19, 2016, 07:49:33 PM
At 1.046 and a fresh pack you shouldn't have any worries.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on March 19, 2016, 11:20:53 PM
I hit my target gravity of 1.046 on the nose and just oxygenated and pitched a single smack pack (I cannot remember the lat time I did that) at 69 degrees.

Oh boy! I got the itch to try this method again, soon. Maybe it'll happen sooner than I thought... I think I'll wait to hear how your experience goes first - particularly the ester production from this strain.

What kind of recipe did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?

Next time, for a special bitter, I'm thinking I'd like to almost do 100% TF Optic Malt but I feel like I have to add in a little something extra to fully push me into that style (maybe carastan 30/37, or crisp 45L; at the 6oz range; or I could do less of a darker crystal; or more of a lighter; I'm torn :D).  Then EKG for 60, 15, 5; or maybe challenger at 60 but keep EKG for finishing. I'm open to suggestions but aim to keep it fairly simple and focus on the yeast pitch, fermentation schedule/temp.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 19, 2016, 11:35:16 PM
What kind of recipe did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?

It's something I've been meaning to brew for awhile:

9 lbs. Golden Promise
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 60
1 oz. Styrian Goldings - 20
.5 oz. EKG and .5 oz. SG - 10
.5 oz. EKG and .5 oz. SG - 2
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: stpug on March 20, 2016, 01:09:49 AM
What kind of recipe did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?

It's something I've been meaning to brew for awhile:

9 lbs. Golden Promise
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 60
1 oz. Styrian Goldings - 20
.5 oz. EKG and .5 oz. SG - 10
.5 oz. EKG and .5 oz. SG - 2

I like it! Simple, direct, and too the point.  Keep us posted on your experience using 1768. I'll be super jealous if you manage to get something significant from it :D
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on March 26, 2016, 01:49:55 PM
Well, there was no activity after 12 hours, but it was going strong when I checked on it at 22 hours.  I haven't checked the gravity, but it looks like it was finished or close to it after 3.5 days.

I ended up fermenting at 69-70 the entire time. 

I'll keg it up sometime late next week.

Edit: I kegged it tonight, and it tastes pretty good.  FG was 1.013 from 1.046 which is an AA of about 72%.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: narcout on April 09, 2016, 08:07:10 PM
I tapped the keg this afternoon.  The beer has the same soft, round mouthfeel as the inspiration beer (actually tastes closer to the goal than I was expecting), but I think the finish is a bit drier.  At 1.013, it actually has a drier finish than the 1.006 Belgian Strong Golden I have on the second tap.  Of course, the BSG has almost twice the alcohol content.

The overall flavor is more earthy/woodsy than fruity; that could be due to the hops I used though.

It also has more of an "English" character than I usually achieve.  Whether that's because of the strain or the fact that I used such a low pitch rate, I cannot say.

I'm not picking up any of the lollipop ester that S. Cerevisiae described.
Title: Re: Winter Wyeast PC Strains
Post by: brewinhard on April 09, 2016, 08:59:24 PM
I tapped the keg this afternoon.  The beer has the same soft, round mouthfeel as the inspiration beer (actually tastes closer to the goal than I was expecting), but I think the finish is a bit drier.  At 1.013, it actually has a drier finish than the 1.006 Belgian Strong Golden I have on the second tap.  Of course, the BSG has almost twice the alcohol content.

The overall flavor is more earthy/woodsy than fruity; that could be due to the hops I used though.

It also has more of an "English" character than I usually achieve.  Whether that's because of the strain or the fact that I used such a low pitch rate, I cannot say.

I'm not picking up any of the lollipop ester that S. Cerevisiae described.

After reading Mark's latest blog post, I am going to try pitching warm as he recommended to get the most out of these english ale strains.  Will probably brew a simple bitter and pitch at 72-73F and let cool slowly to fermenting temp around 68F for primary.